Here's and update guys. Looks to me we are full and I still taking
reservations for hand outs at this point.

BTW the hand out will focus on the "long handed method" of kitbashing the
car so you'll all have the opportunity to be able to do the work beyond the
event. As always I recommend that you all bring a pen and a pencil and as
there are always comments made during the presentation that are not easily
remembered or on the handouts and can be valuable on the SHAKE N TAKE list.

Kit and Handout:
1. Denny Anspach
2. Jon Greedy
3. Mont Switzer
4. Tony Thompson
5. Schuyler Larabee
6. Armand Premo
7. Craig Zeni
8. Jerry Glow
9. Mike Brock
10. Al Brown
11. Bill Darnaby
12. Roger Hinman
13. Bill Welch
14. Brian Carlson
15. Arved Grass
16. Bob Heninger
17. Richard Hendrickson
18. Scott Dam
19. Chuck Davis
20. Greg Davis
21. Matt Herson
22. George Corral

Now for the list of 1st Alternates or Hand Outs only room for twenty (20):
1. Charles Hostetler
2. John Cantlay
3. Fenton Wells

4. Stuart Forsyth
5. Clark Cone
6. Carl G Camann
7. Roger Wilson



There will be a sign up sheet at the registration that I will maintain for
the walk in crowd FRIDAY AM. I am sure I am not going to have to be there
all that long until it files up. Pass the word...


You might also want to consider bringing a kit (undecorated like ours or
decorated) and a graphite pencil to follow along and mark the/your car up as
there will be three (3) cuts to make the 37-foot car work.

Greg Martin

Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it.
Norman Maclean





.

Hi Folks,

We have a nice line-up of freight car clinics for Prototype Rails 2013 (January 10-12 in Cocoa Beach, FL).

Brown: Semi-Homemade - partially scratchbuilt freight cars.
Thompson: Transistion-era Tank Car Modeling
Hendrickson: Freight Car Trucks 1900-1960: Arch Bars to Roller Bearings
Peacock: UP (OSL) Freight Train Consists, Spring 1947
Thomas: Canadian Cylindrical Hoppers
Hinman: NRC Express and Frozen Food Cars
Tendrick: Resin Kit Building demonstration
Welch: Mastering Master-Pattern Making: 300+ rivets and counting!
Singer: Along the CB&Q in '48 - photos from the Newberry Library [lots of freight car images].
Hostetler: The 1% Carload Waybill Sample: Uses for Prototype Modelers
Sugerman: Car Cards, Waybills, and Car Forwarding
Dick: How Car Routing is Affected by Service Orders
Funaro: [subject tbd]

And, of course, the famous Prototype Rails "Shake-N-Take":
Martin: Shake-N-Take - National Car 37' Reefer

There are also a bunch of other great clinics, but they are off-topic for STMFC.

For more info, see www.prototyperails.com<http://www.prototyperails.com> .

Regards,

-Jeff Aley
Clinic Chairman, PR'13

Looking good Ben. I skimmed the article on the little PRR hopper and look forward to going back and reading it thoroughly. Water tank article looks interesting too.

Bill Welch

The Autumn 2012 issue of The Keystone Modeler is online at
http://www.prrths.com/newprr_files/newPRRKeystoneModeler.htm
including an article by Jim Hunter on building the Funaro & Camerlengo HO scale
Class GLca hopper kit.


Ben Hom

Any idea about the decals for this years project, the SP box? I thought I
could use Microscale but I don't see a set that will be a good candidate.
Any thoughts? Thanks
Fenton

On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 2:09 AM, <tgregmrtn@...> wrote:

**


Bill,

Yes some are and there are a few new faces. Yours will be providing that
Mr
Alley doesn't put your clinic up against mine... One can only hope.

Greg

Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it.
Norman Maclean

In a message dated 12/8/2012 5:15:55 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
fgexbill@... writes:

Talk about a list of the "Usual Suspects!"

Bill Welch

--- In _STMFC@... (mailto:STMFC@...) ,
tgregmrtn@... wrote:

Okay the response has been great for the first day and the sign up sheet
won't likely last through the weekend and here how we are SHAKE N TAKING
things out:
1. Denny Anspach
2. John Greedy
3. Mont Switzer
4. Tony Thompson
5. Schuyler Larabee
6. Armand Premo
7. Craig Zeni
8. Jerry Glow
9. Mike Brock
10. Al Brown
11. Bill Darnaby
12. Roger Hinman
13. Bill Welch
14. Brian Carlson
15. Arved Grass
A few new faces on the list and some old soldiers I mean uh modelers as
well.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--
Fenton Wells
3047 Creek Run
Sanford NC 27332
919-499-5545
srrfan1401@...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tony, Ray, et al - sorry for the dyslexia in the subject of my first post; of course it's the Nickel Plate Road. Dave Sieber, Reno NV

Clark, Appreciate the offer; yes, I'd like a photo of these cars as M&StL. If the M&StL bought some of the NKP 11000s, that would be a good alternative to doing the Storzek kit as NKP. Do you know if the M&StL boxcars had Chicago-Cleveland or Hutchins roofs? What was the M&StL road number series? That would help me research out how long they lasted on the M&StL in regular service. Many thanks, Dave Sieber, Reno NV To: STMFC@...
From: cepropst@q.com
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2012 16:27:13 +0000
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Nickle Plate DS boxcars of 1916 NYC design (Storzek kit 1916-5B)

























Westerfield did this car. I can send you a photo of the cars after the M&StL bought them.

Clark Propst

Please! The subject line should read "Nickel." You can look it up.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

Westerfield did this car. I can send you a photo of the cars after the M&StL bought them.
Clark Propst

On Dec 9, 2012, at 2:09 AM, STMFC@... wrote:

1c. Re: [PRR-Modeling] SHAKE N TAKE 2013
Posted by: "tgregmrtn@..." tgregmrtn@... tgregmrtn
Date: Sat Dec 8, 2012 11:09 pm ((PST))

Bill,

Yes some are and there are a few new faces. Yours will be providing that Mr
Alley doesn't put your clinic up against mine... One can only hope.

Or my clinic as well...Mr Aley are you listening? :)



Craig Zeni

Sent from my soup can with the string pulled really tight.

Ray, Hit it right on the head! The Storzek model is a near perfect match to that boxcar in the Indiana Transportation Museum (perhaps a different roof, counting the number of ribs?), and there are enough photos of NKP 18013 online to help me decal my 11000-series model (and add AB brakes). Odd that the ITM stenciled their car as 36ft3in IL as if it were from the NKP 10000-series; it looks to be a 40-footer like the Storzek model, and as you note below. The decals with the kit are the pre-WWII lettering with N.Y.C.&St.L. initials and the small-R roadname. Really appreciate the great info; just what I'd hoped for. I need to get a mid- to late-'40s ORER anyway; that would give me road numbers for those NKP 11000-series boxcars that lasted longest in regular service. I guess my "1950" display train needs to move back to 1948-49 ... Thanks again, Dave Sieber, Reno NV To: STMFC@...
From: rtbsvrr69@...
Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2012 22:22:13 -0800
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Nickle Plate DS boxcars of 1916 NYC design (Storzek kit 1916-5B)


























>>Group, I need help from those who know NKP steam era boxcars.

I just bought Storzek kit 1916-5B, an NKP double-sheathed boxcar of the 1916 NYC autocar design. The instructions say that the NKP

received these cars when they bought the Lake Erie and Western in the early 1920s. The model is an NKP upgraded single-door car with

a 6ft prewar Youngstown door. It should build up into a very nice car; the 7/7 inverse Murphy corrugated ends are great!

Unfortunately, the instructions have no photos of an NKP car, nor info on when the NKP converted the former LE&W autocars into single-door

boxcars or how late those cars lasted in that form. From the decals provided, it appears that some road numbers for these cars were NKP 86649

and 11040. I had planned to use this car for my 1950 display train, but the earliest ORER that I have, July 1950, shows large gaps where those

road numbers would have been, leading me to suspect these cars had been scrapped or otherwise disposed of prior to 1950.

Can anyone advise me of the road number series for these NKP single-door NYC-design DS boxcars, which could help me find photos, and/or

perhaps share some of their history, especially when these cars were last used in interchange service?

Many thanks in advance,

Dave Sieber

Hi Dave,



I think I can help here!



The NKP started receiving 40-foot NYC-designed double sheathed auto boxcars in 1917. The road got cars of two heights; the kit (originally made by Dennis, now made by Westerfield) represents the lower 8' 8" inside height cars. Originally, the NKP had two groups of these cars: 18000-18799, and 18800-18999, which were identical except for end doors. Later, with the absorption of the LE&W in 1922, the NKP ended up with two more identical groups of cars, 86500-86749 and 86750-86756. All four groups of cars were built to different NYC lot numbers, but used the same general erection drawings (which is a slightly better way of tracking NYC cars)



Starting right before the Great Depression, the NKP started converting some of these cars to plain boxcars, initially just by nailing the left hand doors shut and painting out the "AUTOMOBILE" marks on the right side. Some of these cars ended up in new, lower number series. Later, starting in 1936 or so, the road began a "modernization" program for these cars, replacing the Chicago-Cleveland roofs with Hutchins, replacing the wood doors with Youngstown (depending on which numbers, either receiving two new doors or one centered one, with new sheathing and internal framing), and with AB brakes.



SPECIFICALLY, the kit with the single Youngstown door represents cars 11000-11299, which were converted 18000-18799 and 86500-86749 series cars. These cars first show up in the ORER in 1932, and last until 1949, when the last of the cars had either been rebuilt into all steel cars, converted to MOW cars, or scrapped. There is also SOME evidence that some of the cars in the 21000-21299 series were rebuilt with single Youngstown doors, although most evidence points to these only being double door cars.



There is one of these cars preserved in Noblesville, IN. They have the car repainted as #18013, but that's the car's original number. As-is, with it's single Youngstown door, that number is bogus for the car (it also has pass-through doors added to the ends!). Nevertheless, it's a good aid when building the kit, and photos of it are all over online. I have a photo of car 18040 in service in the late 1940s (in pre-WWII paint: large corporate initials and "small R" road name), as well as two of the 21000s: one with two wood doors, and one with two Youngstown (both have the "swing tail" R).



So....what else do you want to know? :-)



Regards,

Ray Breyer

Elgin, IL

Bill,

Yes some are and there are a few new faces. Yours will be providing that Mr
Alley doesn't put your clinic up against mine... One can only hope.

Greg

Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it.
Norman Maclean

Group, I need help from those who know NKP steam era boxcars.

I just bought Storzek kit 1916-5B, an NKP double-sheathed boxcar of the 1916 NYC autocar design.  The instructions say that the NKP
received these cars when they bought the Lake Erie and Western in the early 1920s.  The model is an NKP upgraded single-door car with
a 6ft prewar Youngstown door.  It should build up into a very nice car; the 7/7 inverse Murphy corrugated ends are great!
Unfortunately, the instructions have no photos of an NKP car, nor info on when the NKP converted the former LE&W autocars into single-door
boxcars or how late those cars lasted in that form.  From the decals provided, it appears that some road numbers for these cars were NKP 86649
and 11040.  I had planned to use this car for my 1950 display train, but the earliest ORER that I have, July 1950, shows large gaps where those
road numbers would have been, leading me to suspect these cars had been scrapped or otherwise disposed of prior to 1950.
Can anyone advise me of the road number series for these NKP single-door NYC-design DS boxcars, which could help me find photos, and/or
perhaps share some of their history, especially when these cars were last used in interchange service? 
Many thanks in advance,
Dave Sieber

Hi Dave,

I think I can help here! 

The NKP started receiving 40-foot NYC-designed double sheathed auto boxcars in 1917. The road got cars of two heights; the kit (originally made by Dennis, now made by Westerfield) represents the lower 8' 8" inside height cars. Originally, the NKP had two groups of these cars: 18000-18799, and 18800-18999, which were identical except for end doors. Later, with the absorption of the LE&W in 1922, the NKP ended up with two more identical groups of cars, 86500-86749 and 86750-86756. All four groups of cars were built to different NYC lot numbers, but used the same general erection drawings (which is a slightly better way of tracking NYC cars)

Starting right before the Great Depression, the NKP started converting some of these cars to plain boxcars, initially just by nailing the left hand doors shut and painting out the "AUTOMOBILE" marks on the right side. Some of these cars ended up in new, lower number series. Later, starting in 1936 or so, the road began a "modernization" program for these cars, replacing the Chicago-Cleveland roofs with Hutchins, replacing the wood doors with Youngstown (depending on which numbers, either receiving two new doors or one centered one, with new sheathing and internal framing), and with AB brakes.

SPECIFICALLY, the kit with the single Youngstown door represents cars 11000-11299, which were converted 18000-18799 and 86500-86749 series cars. These cars first show up in the ORER in 1932, and last until 1949, when the last of the cars had either been rebuilt into all steel cars, converted to MOW cars, or scrapped. There is also SOME evidence that some of the cars in the 21000-21299 series were rebuilt with single Youngstown doors, although most evidence points to these only being double door cars.

There is one of these cars preserved in Noblesville, IN. They have the car repainted as #18013, but that's the car's original number. As-is, with it's single Youngstown door, that number is bogus for the car (it also has pass-through doors added to the ends!). Nevertheless, it's a good aid when building the kit, and photos of it are all over online. I have a photo of car 18040 in service in the late 1940s (in pre-WWII paint: large corporate initials and "small R" road name), as well as two of the 21000s: one with two wood doors, and one with two Youngstown (both have the "swing tail" R).

So....what else do you want to know?  :-)

Regards,
Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group, I need help from those who know NKP steam era boxcars.

I just bought Storzek kit 1916-5B, an NKP double-sheathed boxcar of the 1916 NYC autocar design. The instructions say that the NKP received these cars when they bought the Lake Erie and Western in the early 1920s. The model is an NKP upgraded single-door car with a 6ft prewar Youngstown door. It should build up into a very nice car; the 7/7 inverse Murphy corrugated ends are great!

Unfortunately, the instructions have no photos of an NKP car, nor info on when the NKP converted the former LE&W autocars into single-door boxcars or how late those cars lasted in that form. From the decals provided, it appears that some road numbers for these cars were NKP 86649 and 11040. I had planned to use this car for my 1950 display train, but the earliest ORER that I have, July 1950, shows large gaps where those road numbers would have been, leading me to suspect these cars had been scrapped or otherwise disposed of prior to 1950.

Can anyone advise me of the road number series for these NKP single-door NYC-design DS boxcars, which could help me find photos, and/or perhaps share some of their history, especially when these cars were last used in interchange service?

Many thanks in advance, Dave Sieber, Reno NV

Joe, My 10/47 ORER shows M-I 72-82 (3 cars). They were 35-0, 9-10 wide and 80000 lbs. capy. FHP (Frank H. Peacock)

To: STMFC@...
From: ygbsm66@...
Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2012 21:58:40 +0000
Subject: [STMFC] Missouri-Illinois flat cars


























Group,



Ive been researching the M-I roster and have been unlucky in finding any info on the group of flat cars, numbers 71-86. At least 2 lasted into the early 50's. These were 35'9" long and had a 80,000lb capacity. According to the 1938ORER they had 12 of these and that they came from the MR&BT. the only other info i have is from the 1917 orer and the flat cars listed appear to be different cars. any help would be greatly appreciated.



Thanks,



joe


















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group,

Ive been researching the M-I roster and have been unlucky in finding any info on the group of flat cars, numbers 71-86. At least 2 lasted into the early 50's. These were 35'9" long and had a 80,000lb capacity. According to the 1938ORER they had 12 of these and that they came from the MR&BT. the only other info i have is from the 1917 orer and the flat cars listed appear to be different cars. any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

joe

Add me please,
Fenton Wells

On Fri, Dec 7, 2012 at 10:50 PM, <tgregmrtn@...> wrote:

**


Okay the response has been great for the first day and the sign up sheet
won't likely last through the weekend and here how we are SHAKE N TAKING
things out:
1. Denny Anspach
2. John Greedy
3. Mont Switzer
4. Tony Thompson
5. Schuyler Larabee
6. Armand Premo
7. Craig Zeni
8. Jerry Glow
9. Mike Brock
10. Al Brown
11. Bill Darnaby
12. Roger Hinman
13. Bill Welch
14. Brian Carlson
15. Arved Grass
A few new faces on the list and some old soldiers I mean uh modelers as
well.

Bring you past models as well so we can show off a bit.

Greg Martin

Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it.
Norman Maclean

I wrote:
Guys,

I am finally announcing Shake N Take for 2013 at Prototype Rails in
January. Some details had to be worked out this year that has never
impacted us
in the past and for the good I would say. I am extremely excited about
this
years project.

This "class" will be extremely limited in available spaces ~ 30 ~ Twenty
Two (22) slots will be filled via the Internet and eight (8) slots as walk
in at the door. A sign up sheet will be available starting FRIDAY MORNING
not
before and this is a change. I will have extra hand outs for folks who
want to follow along. As always we are looking for a mix of old heads who
actually build the models as well as folks new to SHAKE N TAKE that have
never
attended.

This year we will be building the Nation Car NX 37-foot reefer. It will be
from the ACCURAIL 40-foot reefer that ACCURAIL (thank you to our own
Dennis
Storzek and Bob Walker) has agreed to mill to the correct length on the
roof panels, the sides are up to us. It will be an amazing offering. We'll
discuss some simple upgrades that may be helpful in your forty foot car
construction as well.

The paint scheme will focus on the cars leased by Oscar Meyer from
NATIONAL Car during the 1950's. I believe 5th Avenue Car Shops does offer
a more
complete deal sheet of National Car decal. These cars were not only meat
reefers but as brine cars they also hauled dry ice. You'll find that there
is an incredible amount of lettering schemes for these cars as they were a
common leased car. We'll discuss the pre-rebuilt board roof cars as well
as
the typical "The Companies" upgrades that occurred after 1950.

As usual I will post the sign up sheet here as the spots fill up.

See you at the Beach,

Greg Martin

Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it.
Norman Maclean

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--
Fenton Wells
3047 Creek Run
Sanford NC 27332
919-499-5545
srrfan1401@...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On 12/8/12 8:44 AM, Lee Thwaits wrote:

One thing not mentioned is air pressure. I find that about 35 -40 psi
about right using 220 grit, also must have sufficient supply of air.

Lee Thwaits

You need to be careful when sand blasting sheet brass. The
abrasive action on the metal can heat it to the point where it
warps, never to be the same again.

In my much younger days (e.g., I didn't know better) I decided
to have an industrial sand blaster remove the paint from a car.
Every panel came out badly warped. A well-known custom builder
and painter had the same experience when attempting to remove
the paint from a brass model.

I think Lee's advice on air pressure is good, just stay away
from higher pressures, and of course, check temperature of
the metal as you proceed.

Rod


--

Custom 2-rail O Scale Models: Drives, | O Scale West / S West
Repairs, Steam Loco Building, More | 2013 Meet is Jan 24-26
http://www.rodmiller.com | http://www.oscalewest.com

Hi Doug and List Members,

Impressive indeed!

My favorite is linked below, note the BESSEMER box car lurking at the extreme left of the image.

https://public.sn2.livefilestore.com/y1pUlnf1HopYfQAGIBHOwQINMW3jPrr39cCes6oXA_oqyiWlLohPXqz-ZZBbvPnrzyxpzUvQVjEUBTI5PQtHQJkWA/Ws1259l.jpg?psid=1

- Claus Schlund

Here's and update guys. Looks to me we are full and I will take
reservations for hand outs at this point.

BTW the hand out will focus on the "long handed method" of kitbashing the
car so you'll all have the opportunity to be able to do the work beyond the
event. As always I recommend that you all bring a pen and a pencil and as
there are always comments made during the presentation that are not easily
remembered or on the handouts and can be valuable on the SHAKE N TAKE list.

Kit and Handout:
1. Denny Anspach
2. Jon Greedy
3. Mont Switzer
4. Tony Thompson
5. Schuyler Larabee
6. Armand Premo
7. Craig Zeni
8. Jerry Glow
9. Mike Brock
10. Al Brown
11. Bill Darnaby
12. Roger Hinman
13. Bill Welch
14. Brian Carlson
15. Arved Grass
16. Bob Heninger
17. Richard Hendrickson
18. Scott Dam
19. Chuck Davis
20. Greg Davis
21. Matt Herson
22. George Corral
Now for the list of 1st Alternates or Hand Outs only room for twenty (20):
1. Charles Hostetler
2. John Cantlay
There will be a sign up sheet at the registration that I will maintain for
the walk in crowd FRIDAY AM. I am sure I am not going to have to be there
all that long until it files up. Pass the word...


You might also want to consider bringing a kit (undecorated like ours or
decorated) and a graphite pencil to follow along and mark the/your car up
as there will be three (3) cuts to make the 37-foot car work.

Greg Martin

Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it.
Norman Maclean