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Re: Lift that ERIE car
Schuyler Larrabee
Eric,
First of all, I've corrected my typo in the original post, it says, now, LIFT that ERIE car. It is not (AFAIK) a Life Magazine image. This is an ERIE-only car, in that it IS one of the cars you've identified, but the ERIE at one point overlaid the wood side with steel plates. I have been told, but have never seen a sufficiently detailed photograph to know, that the plates were attached with countersunk flat head wood screws. This apparently not only made the car more weather-resistant, but also more rigid. Schuyler From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Eric Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 12:29 AM To: STMFC@... Subject: [STMFC] Re: Life that ERIE car Is this a steel sheathed box car in the Life magazine image? I don't see any rivets. It reminds me of the 36-foot, wood, double sheathed box cars the Erie owned. Here's a similar angle on an Erie DS box car with a 36-foot interior length. http://www.hansmanns.org/images/canton_industry_2.JPG There are some differences along the side sill and the fascia, but the end structure and end sills are similar. I don't have a 1940s ORER to check dimensions, but my 1926 edition lists Erie 70301 with nearly 2600 cars of a 35-foot outside length. Eric Eric Hansmann El Paso, TX --- In STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , "lnbill" <fgexbill@...> wrote: Fruit (Howard Ameling photo), CIL, ACY, and Atlantic & Eastern Carolina (The Tobacco Belt Route) "Schuyler.larrabee" <schuyler.larrabee@> wrote:
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Re: Life that ERIE car
Eric Hansmann
Is this a steel sheathed box car in the Life magazine image? I don't see any rivets. It reminds me of the 36-foot, wood, double sheathed box cars the Erie owned. Here's a similar angle on an Erie DS box car with a 36-foot interior length.
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http://www.hansmanns.org/images/canton_industry_2.JPG There are some differences along the side sill and the fascia, but the end structure and end sills are similar. I don't have a 1940s ORER to check dimensions, but my 1926 edition lists Erie 70301 with nearly 2600 cars of a 35-foot outside length. Eric Eric Hansmann El Paso, TX --- In STMFC@..., "lnbill" <fgexbill@...> wrote:
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Re: 1940's photos of Sinclair, Mid-Continent DX and Mobilgas 8K gallon Type 21 Tanks
Rob Adams
Richard;
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Thank you. For some reason, I was under the impression that Sinclair had 8K Type 21 cars in addition to the 10K version. Drats. I switched to Proto:48 from HO about four years ago and am trying to build an appropriate freight car fleet for a future layout based on branchline operations of the Rock Island and C&NW. They both ran to the old coal mining town of What Cheer, Iowa, which is about a half an hour from where I live. Attached is an image of the area that will be part of my modeling. The layout will be set in the 1947-50 time frame, probably 1947 or 48. Motive power was a EMC Winton SW switcher on the Rock Island pulling a mixed train, and a Class R-1 4-6-0 for the C&NW. There was a large brick and tile manufacturer just south of What Cheer on the C&NW which created most of their traffic after the 30's when coal mining pretty well ceased. My interest in the Type 21's is because I've discovered that one of the Lionel tankers is a copy of the Proto 2000 8K gallon kit, albeit with several compromises for the toy train market. The good news is that tank body itself is to scale and has very good fidelity. The frame is also basically to scale and could be re-used, though would need a lot of work to reconstruct the abbreviated bolsters and center sill. I planned to convert two or three of these beasts into Proto:48 models and am looking for suitable prototypes to serve oil dealers on the line. I'll probably end up scratchbuilding the underframes using drawings from the AC&F tank book, but that's the easy part. The tank would be a bear. Dealers on line included Sinclair, DX, Standard, Mobil and Champlin for certain. Would you have any idea what tanks Champlin would have used? I appreciate your assistance. Best regards, Rob On 12/30/12 9:06 PM, Richard Hendrickson wrote:
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Re: Caboose Wheel Sizes
Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Bill Daniels wrote:
I know of NO cabooses that rode on 36" wheels... as has been mentioned previously 36" wheels are for passenger cars (due to high speed and the weight of the car) and heavy (>100 tons) freight cars. Cabooses did not fall into either category.On the SP, all cabooses to my knowledge had 33-inch wheels. When assigned to fast trains like the "Overnight," a caboose with steel wheels was required, rather than the cast iron of older cars, but that was all. Passenger coaches, which all had steel wheels, were also acceptable for those caboose assignments. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history |
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Re: 1940's photos of Sinclair, Mid-Continent DX and Mobilgas 8K gallon Type 21 Tanks
Richard Hendrickson
On Dec 30, 2012, at 1:32 PM, Rob Adams <steamera@...> wrote:
I'm looking for photos of 8000 gallon AC&F Type 21 tank cars with 1940'sRob, I ave no photos of either Sinclair or Mobilgas 8K gal. AC&F Type 21 tank cars, and to the best of my knowledge neither company owned 8K Type 21s, though Sinclair had a large number of 10K four course Type 21s. Mid-Continent did have some 8K Type 21s, though most of their cars were earlier Type 17s. I have one photo of a Mid-Continent 8K Type 21, but it's an AC&F guilder's photo and doesn't show the car in '40s P/L. However, I'll send it to you off-line, as it at least documents a car number. Richard Hendrickson |
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Re: USRA SS boxcars with composite ends & doors
Gene <bierglaeser@...>
--- In STMFC@..., Andy Carlson <midcentury@...> wrote:
<snip> It is the so-called Fowler design used by the D&RGW, among possible others. <snip> -Andy CarlsonAndy, You can add the C&NW and M&StL to that list. Gene Green |
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Square corner post Carbuilder end 10' H boxcar
Mark
Checked the list of 1937 AAR boxcars on the steamerafreightcar.com and found a few sq. corner post 10' high boxcars.
Question, 10'H ten panel riveted, murphy roof with carbuilders ends any road have something like this? Just need to know since the parts are available. Thanks for any thoughts. Mark Morgan |
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Re: Caboose Wheel Sizes
water.kresse@...
Why raise the Center of Gravity on a light car that bobbed around too much anyway. They could also use the re-machined wheelsets off of 40-ton box cars being scrapped for new 50-ton cars. It wasn't unusual to see miss-matched trucks on C&O wooden-superstructure cabooses.
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Al Kresse ----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Daniels" <billinsf@...> To: STMFC@... Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 8:31:06 PM Subject: Re: [STMFC] Caboose Wheel Sizes Bruce, I know of NO cabooses that rode on 36" wheels... as has been mentioned previously 36" wheels are for passenger cars (due to high speed and the weight of the car) and heavy (>100 tons) freight cars. Cabooses did not fall into either category. Bill Daniels San Francisco, CA ________________________________ From: Bruce F. Smith <smithbf@...> To: "STMFC@..." <STMFC@...> Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 4:09 PM Subject: RE: [STMFC] Caboose Wheel Sizes Bill, I can quite confidently state that the PRR's cabin cars all had 33" wheels during the period of this list. I can only speculate as to the reason why, but the use of modified freight trucks and the servicing of cabin cars in the same location as freight cars would both indicate that 33" wheels make the most sense. I can't speak for many other railroads, but AFAIK, the READING and NYNY&H both had 33" wheels on their cabooses as well. In fact, I'm struggling to identify a railroad with 36" wheels on cabooses... any examples? Regards, Bruce Smith Auburn, AL ________________________________________ From: STMFC@... [STMFC@...] on behalf of webotkin [webotkin@...] Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 11:12 AM To: STMFC@... Subject: [STMFC] Caboose Wheel Sizes Hi, Can anyone provide information about when and by what criteria the typical caboose wheel size changed from 33 inches to 36 inches? Was this railroad specific or something that happened across railroads? Thanks. Bill Botkin Centennial, CO ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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Re: Caboose Wheel Sizes
Bill Daniels <billinsf@...>
Bruce,
I know of NO cabooses that rode on 36" wheels... as has been mentioned previously 36" wheels are for passenger cars (due to high speed and the weight of the car) and heavy (>100 tons) freight cars. Cabooses did not fall into either category. Bill Daniels San Francisco, CA ________________________________ From: Bruce F. Smith <smithbf@...> To: "STMFC@..." <STMFC@...> Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 4:09 PM Subject: RE: [STMFC] Caboose Wheel Sizes Bill, I can quite confidently state that the PRR's cabin cars all had 33" wheels during the period of this list. I can only speculate as to the reason why, but the use of modified freight trucks and the servicing of cabin cars in the same location as freight cars would both indicate that 33" wheels make the most sense. I can't speak for many other railroads, but AFAIK, the READING and NYNY&H both had 33" wheels on their cabooses as well. In fact, I'm struggling to identify a railroad with 36" wheels on cabooses... any examples? Regards, Bruce Smith Auburn, AL ________________________________________ From: STMFC@... [STMFC@...] on behalf of webotkin [webotkin@...] Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 11:12 AM To: STMFC@... Subject: [STMFC] Caboose Wheel Sizes Hi, Can anyone provide information about when and by what criteria the typical caboose wheel size changed from 33 inches to 36 inches? Was this railroad specific or something that happened across railroads? Thanks. Bill Botkin Centennial, CO ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ |
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Re: Speedwitch #k106 CB&Q/FW&D/C&S XM-25/26 SS boxcar question
#k106
Nelson Moyer <ku0a@...>
I've been out of town for the holidays, so I'm also late to respond. The
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Burlington Route Historical Society issued a Freight Car Data Sheet on XM25/26 single sheathed boxcars, but it's currently out of print. The data sheet states that "metal gusset plates were welded to the juncture of the vertical posts and the diagonals at the top of some but not all cars, beginning in the 1940s, in an attempt to stiffen the upper carbody and perhaps eliminate movement t6hat opened leaks in the joints of the sheet metal roofs". No source reference is provided, and the author of the data sheet is not identified. Unfortunately, the earliest photograph of a car with gussets that was included in the data sheet was taken in 1955, and I have no photographic documentation of a car with gussets from an earlier date. Other information of interest to modelers is that AB brakes replaced KC brakes during the 1940s. Another possible source of information would be the Sunshine Prototype Data Sheet for discontinued kit 17.1, which I don't have. Nelson Moyer -----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Richard Hendrickson Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 11:11 AM To: STMFC@... Subject: Re: [STMFC] Speedwitch #k106 CB&Q/FW&D/C&S XM-25/26 SS boxcar question On Dec 23, 2012, at 5:15 PM, Bill Welch <fgexbill@... <mailto:fgexbill%40tampabay.rr.com> > wrote: ComradesBill, I'm late responding to this because I've been in the middle of a major computer upgrade, but I don't recall having seen a definitive answer, unless you got one off list. I have numerous photos of these cars both with and without the gussets. However, the gussets were apparently added as the cars came through the shops in the mid-'50s, as the earliest photo I have of a car with gussets shows a reweigh date of 8-53. Richard Hendrickson |
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Re: Caboose Wheel Sizes
Bill,
I can quite confidently state that the PRR's cabin cars all had 33" wheels during the period of this list. I can only speculate as to the reason why, but the use of modified freight trucks and the servicing of cabin cars in the same location as freight cars would both indicate that 33" wheels make the most sense. I can't speak for many other railroads, but AFAIK, the READING and NYNY&H both had 33" wheels on their cabooses as well. In fact, I'm struggling to identify a railroad with 36" wheels on cabooses... any examples? Regards, Bruce Smith Auburn, AL ________________________________________ From: STMFC@... [STMFC@...] on behalf of webotkin [webotkin@...] Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 11:12 AM To: STMFC@... Subject: [STMFC] Caboose Wheel Sizes Hi, Can anyone provide information about when and by what criteria the typical caboose wheel size changed from 33 inches to 36 inches? Was this railroad specific or something that happened across railroads? Thanks. Bill Botkin Centennial, CO ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ |
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Re: Life that ERIE car
Bill Welch
This is offered by Speedwitch. Erie evidently sold some to West India Fruit (Howard Ameling photo), CIL, ACY, and Atlantic & Eastern Carolina (The Tobacco Belt Route)
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Bill Welch --- In STMFC@..., "Schuyler.larrabee" <schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote:
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Life that ERIE car
Schuyler Larrabee
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1940's photos of Sinclair, Mid-Continent DX and Mobilgas 8K gallon Type 21 Tanks
Rob Adams
I'm looking for photos of 8000 gallon AC&F Type 21 tank cars with 1940's paint schemes for Sinclair and Mid-Continent DX to assist with a modeling project. I don't know whether there were 8K gallon Mobilgas Type 21 cars painted in the red and black scheme, but they would be of interest also.
Assistance locating a source for any of these photos would be most appreciated. Information about 8000 gallon Type 21 car numbers for these lines would also be of interest. Thanks in advance. Rob Adams Wellman, IA |
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Re: USRA SS boxcars with composite ends & doors
Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Ben Hom wrote:
The statement "composite ends was a variation limited to canadian roads" is untrue. Other prototypes of the Z-section truss cars with composite ends include CB&Q, CNJ, MEC, SP/T&NO, and VGN, though these prototypes differ in detail.Speaking only for the SP/T&NO cars, "differ in detail" is quite an understatement. SP evidently was unimpressed with the USRA box cars it received, because the following orders for 7000 cars not only went to Z-bar bracing but differed in virtually every mechanical detail from the USRA design. SP even increased the inside height. Well, yeah, they were 40 feet long and were single-sheathed with composite ends . . . and maybe in TT scale that's as far as you would want to go . . . but in the case of the SP/T&NO cars, they were NOT much like the USRA cars. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history |
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Re: Caboose Wheel Sizes
Frank Greene
That's easy... 36" wheels were never "typical" on cabooses. 36" wheels were/are associated with passenger cars and 100+ ton capacity freight cars. Cabooses generally had trucks nominally rated for 40 or 50-ton capacity and designed for 33" wheels. But, there may be some exceptions that I don't know anything about, since "typical" implies "atypical". Do you have an example?
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On 12/30/2012 11:12 AM, webotkin wrote:
Hi, --
Frank Greene Memphis, TN |
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Caboose Wheel Sizes
webotkin
Hi,
Can anyone provide information about when and by what criteria the typical caboose wheel size changed from 33 inches to 36 inches? Was this railroad specific or something that happened across railroads? Thanks. Bill Botkin Centennial, CO |
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Re: USRA SS boxcars with composite ends & doors
Benjamin Hom
Andy Carlson wrote:
"I know of one single sheathed boxcar in TT molded in styrene plastic. It is the so-called Fowler design used by the D&RGW, among possible others. It is a flat kit offered by Jerry Versa, formerly of Intermountain and other ventures (S scale). They are frequently offered on Ebay as factory painted and assembled, along with Jerry's '37 AAR steel boxcar. Both are nice cars, especially the '37 AAR car." You mean these? http://www.goldcoastrailway.com/kit.html However, Ben's question implies there are other TT scale SS boxcar models on the market. Ben Hom |
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Re: USRA SS boxcars with composite ends & doors
Benjamin Hom
I wrote:
"Other prototypes of the Z-section truss cars with composite ends include CB&Q, CNJ, MEC, SP/T&NO, and VGN, though these prototypes differ in detail." David Thompson replied: "The Virginian composite box cars (Bx-10 and -11) had steel plate ends with three vertical ribs." Thanks for the assist. My Mainline Modelers with the Hundman Bx-10 series (Feb, Apr, May, Jun 2005) are in storage. I do hate moving. Ben Hom |
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Re: USRA SS boxcars with composite ends & doors
David
--- In STMFC@..., "benjaminfrank_hom" <b.hom@...> wrote:
Other prototypes of the Z-section truss cars with composite ends include CB&Q, CNJ, MEC, SP/T&NO, and VGN, though these prototypes differ in detail.The Virginian composite box cars (Bx-10 and -11) had steel plate ends with three vertical ribs. David Thompson |
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