Hello Pierre.
When will you have the Kadee bracket grab drilling jig listed for sale? I want to place an order for some of your parts, but I am waiting for this to be listed as well.


Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantm ent

I'm trying to track down information about a series of Pullman Standard prints created from advertising artwork done for Pullman Standard by J. Francis Chase (he also did artwork for Coca-Cola and other companies). The Pullman Standard paintings feature stylized composite railroad scenes with PS freight cars prominent in the images (primarily 40' PS-1 box cars). I'd like to connect with others familiar with them in hopes of finding additional information.

Here's what I know: Back in the day, you could write to Pullman Standard and obtain these prints. I'm aware of eight versions - featuring the following railroads: AT&SF, C&NW, Great Northern, L&N, RF&P, Rock Island, Southern Ry. and Western Pacific. The AT&SF image is slightly smaller on the paper (same width but not as tall), and I don't find a signature, so the image may not have been printed in full. But the style is the same, and I'm convinced it is from his work. These prints date from the mid to late 1950's. Mine were sent by Pullman Standard to the recipient in May,1958.

I am interested to know whether there are more than eight in the series and if so, what other railroads were done. Interestingly, the Rock Island painting was also used on the Rock's 1957 Annual Report to Stockholders. The Rock Island's 1960 Annual Report uses another Francis Chase painting, a close up view of a GP7 switching a 50' PS-1 box. Perhaps that was in a PS ad also. I suspect that these paintings appeared in ads that ran in the railroad press and other places.

Thanks in advance.

Kind regards,

Rob Adams
Wellman, IA

Brian Carlson asked:
"Tangent currently offers their Bethlehem 52 ft gondola in Reading's
as-delivered paint scheme.
http://tangentscalemodels.com/readingghhoriginalblack25901bethgon.aspx
Does anyone have photos of this series of cars still in this paint
scheme in 1957? I'm tempted to get one and weather it like crazy."

Not for this particular series, but on page 30 of the Morning Sun Reading Color Guide, there is a Craig Bossler photo of RDG 34239, a Class GHm container gon, in the same paint scheme taken in 1970.


Ben Hom

Tangent currently offers their Bethlehem 52 ft gondola in Reading's
as-delivered paint scheme.

http://tangentscalemodels.com/readingghhoriginalblack25901bethgon.aspx

Does anyone have photos of this series of cars still in this paint scheme in
1957? I'm tempted to get one and weather it like crazy.





Brian J. Carlson, P.E.

Cheektowaga, NY

Kevin Sprayberry wrote:
"Here is what I am looking for.

I model in 1/8th scale. So as far as rivet counting that is pretty
much out of the question. Nobody makes a kit that is correct. I have
the correct Murphy panel roof and ends to do a better car but
these kits just came out and I wanted to get one to see how they go
together and if I can modify them to get a better car.

Ben, thanks for your input on this and I wish retooling was an
option. I may do my own car to get the correct but until then is
there anything to be done to get a close to proto car with what I
have to work with."

Kevin, I gave you my best recommendations in my last post, but I think you're still confused as I wrote my response thinking you were the Manufacturer seeking feedback on a product, which I why I brought up retooling. To summarize again:

- The car is not accurate for any prototype as offered. If you are not willing to change out the roof and ends, there is nothing I can recommend except putting lipstick on this pig by (at best) decorating it as an IC/SOO/DSS&A Modified 1937 AAR boxcar and ignoring the roof.

- If you have the correct Murphy panel roof and round corner 5/5 Dreadnaught ends, it opens up two possibilities:
(1) Replace the roof and use the Youngstown door. This will give you a correct IC/SOO/DSS&A car.
(2) Replace both the roof and the ends. This will give you many more choices as detailed in the following table compiled by Ed Hawkins.
http://www.steamerafreightcars.com/prototype/frtcars/mod37aarmain.html

If you are still confused, e-mail me off-list to set up a phone call.


Ben Hom

I really appreciate all the responses but I need to clarify a little too.  I sent that first email from my phone so it was quick and to the point.  Here is what I am looking for. 
 
I model in 1/8th scale.  So as far as rivet counting that is pretty much out of the question.  Nobody makes a kit that is correct.  I hae the  correct Murphy panel roof and ends to do a better car but these kits just came out and I wanted to get one to see haw they go together and if I can modify them to get a better car.
 
Ben, thanks for your input on this and I wish retooling was an option.  I may do my own car to get the correct but until then is there anything to be done to get a close to proto car with what I have to work with. 
 
My locomotives are correct and I would like the cars to look prototype as well.  
 
Kevin Sprayberry 


________________________________
From: benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2012 3:07 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Aar 40 ft boxcar


 



Kevin <csxt5555@...> wrote:
http://www.precisionsteelcar.com/kits_box406.html

"The link above is for a kit that I hope some of you guys can help me
to find a prototype for. I want to build a few but want to match them
to a prototype first. Note that the 6' door can be swapped to a
Youngstown door."

Kevin, please take don't take this personally, but this model is a mishmash that does not match any prototype. It combines the sides and ends of the square-cornered modified 1937 AAR boxcar (IC, SOO, DSS&A only) and combines it with the roof of the postward Pullman-Standard PS-1. If you retool with a rectangular panel roof, you will have an accurate model of the IC, SOO, and DSS&A cars, but no others. (The more common modified 1937 AAR boxcar prototypes have W-section corner post or rounded-corner ends.) If you retool the ends as PS-1 ends, you can model PS-1s with riveted sides bult for CNW,DSS&A/SOO, FCP, and ASX.
http://www.steamerafreightcars.com/prototype/frtcars/PullmanStandard40ftPS1boxcars.xls

If you retool the ends to match the rounded corner 5/5 Dreadnaught ends, you'll be able to offer far more accurate roads:
http://www.steamerafreightcars.com/prototype/frtcars/mod37aarmain.html

Bottom line: This model matches no known prototype. If possible, recommend retooling to a rectangular panel roof and 5/5 rounded corner ends to open up a much larger number of accurate roads.

Ben Hom

I stand corrected about the Cotton Belt's wide corrugations. Thanks Ben!

AL B.

Actually, isn't it saying it's the overall width over the sills not
including the any siding, much like building dimensions give the size over the
studs but are not including the siding.

Bill Hoss

--- In STMFC@..., "Scott" <repairman87@...> wrote:

What does it refer to when it says 9' 3/4" over the "Side Sills". I thought the sill was the part that goes under the door along the bottom of the car.

Is it just saying that it is 9' 3/4" from the outside on one side to the outside of the other side of the car?

Thank you,
Scott McDonald

Precisely.

Dennis

--- In STMFC@..., "soolinehistory" <destorzek@...> wrote:

Just want to point out that Murphy Solid Steel roofs from this early DID NOT have any pressed stiffeners in the panels; the rectangular panel pattern came later. This roof is illustrated in the 1922 Cyc., and the illustration shows a slight overhang at the edges, similar to the later ZU eave, but this was made by riveting a pressed angle to the top corner of the standard Z section eave. It's not clear if the roof was also available flanged to rivet directly to the Z section as was done later.
The main difference between this roof and the Hutchins roof modeled on the Accurail car is the narrow seem caps, basically the same as used on the later AAR style boxcars. The Hutchins roofs used a wide seam cap that covered both the panel edges and the structural carline; the Murphy roof did away with the separate carline, using the upward flanges of the heavier roof panels for structural strength.

I believe Erie's second series of rebuilt box cars (72500-729XX, former single sheathed auto box cars that received steel sides but retained wooden doors)had this type of Murphy steel roof (Ted's model was the first, more common series which had an outside metal roof).
Someone posted a recent photo of one of these second series rebuilt
Erie box cars in this group not too long ago.

I think some CN steel cars also had this type of Murphy roof without rectangular stiffeners. Can anyone think of any other cars that had them?

Remember the old AHM single sheathed, double door cars with 4/4 drednaught ends? They had this type of roof too.

Regarding Hutcheon's roofs, I believe the crease in the center of the panels is exaggerated on most models.

Ed Mines

Thats for sure. When directions call for a welder and a riviter you know it has to be big.

That price apprears to be just for the body. you are on your own for trucks and couplers.

Scott McDonald

What does it refer to when it says 9' 3/4" over the "Side Sills". I thought the sill was the part that goes under the door along the bottom of the car.

Is it just saying that it is 9' 3/4" from the outside on one side to the outside of the other side of the car?

Thank you,
Scott McDonald

Based on other information on the website I believe they are 1.5" equals a foot scale. Big cars with big prices.
Brian Carlson.
On Dec 27, 2012, at 3:52 PM, "Richard Yoder" <oscale48@...> wrote:

What scale are these cars?
Rich Yoder

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
Anthony Thompson
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2012 3:26 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Aar 40 ft boxcar

Kevin (not signing his full name) wrote:

http://www.precisionsteelcar.com/kits_box406.html

The link above is for a kit that I hope some of you guys can help me to

find a prototype for. I want to build a few but want to match them to a
prototype first. Note that the 6' door can be swapped to a Youngstown door.

Thanks for the help

Ben Hom said it very well. It is hard to guess what the designers of
this model were trying to do, unless they wanted "a little bit of
everything" in one package. But as Ben said, some modest changes would have
permitted a LOT of correct car models. As it is, they got ZERO.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

What scale are these cars?
Rich Yoder

Volume 1 for 2013 of the NYCentral Modeler has been posted on the NYCSHS website
http://www.nycshs.org today. Go to the website, click on the "For The Modeler"
button on the left side of the screen and enjoy this and all of our issues.
This issue contains some articles that I am sure you will enjoy. It has several
new writers and introduces a new regular feature to the magazine. All of the
articles feature topics about the New York Central System. This issue includes
coverage of two layouts, a blast from the past, an interesting collection of
trains and one how-to article.

This e-zine is for members of the NYCSHS and non-members who model in all
scales. Check it out today and let us know what you think.

We are featuring articles bringing you topics including: "Dr. Randall Swanson's
O-Scale NYC layout—Part 2," "Harbor Scene & Float Operations," "Dick Barrett's
Model Train Collection", "Pop's American Flyer Train Set" and "NYCS Steel
Coaches with Wood Interior Finish". You will read a short article with lot's of
photos from NYCSHS members representing the Society at a train show..

This 70-page edition isn't the biggest one we have published, but it features
many photos and the biographies of all of the authors. You will even see photos
of some of our member's layouts, important information about the Society, and
exciting details on the 2013 NYCSHS Convention.

The issue again covers NYCS models coming out currently and in the near future.
Jim Benedict, Associate Editor, who also writes a similar feature in the NYCSHS
Central Headlight, gives us his latest. We also include several pages of many
more new models in the pages that follow Jim's page.

This edition promises to be a truly exciting seventh issue for what is regular
benefit to those of you who model the New York Central Railroad. Even if your
layout is not a NYCS one, you will find items of interest for your own modeling.

NYCSHS President, R. L. Stoving, writes about "Grand Central Terminal" in his
regular feature and he will remind you that our upcoming 2013 Annual Convention
holds some very interesting tours, displays and speakers that you won't want to
miss.

The most exciting feature is the introduction of the "New York Central
Engineering Department" where you will find several pages describing how we make
it happen and a two page detailed drawing of one of the NYCS structures that we
found on one of our NYCSHS Drawing CD's we have for sale on our website. New
NYCSHS member Manuel Duran-Duran is responsible for this department and will
continue to provide these drawings in each edition. Detailed HO plans are
included for the buildings featured.

Our readers continue to comment very favorably on each issue. We believe that
this issue continues the quality standard set by past issues. We hope to
motivate more of you to contact us about featuring your layout or collection in
one of our future issues. Don't be afraid to help us show off your NYC
modeling. We will help you with photographing your models and writing the
article. We provide a style guide, sample article and some photo tips to all
who are interested. We really do want to help you show off your NYC models,
collections, and layouts.


We hope you have a wonderful winter season and look forward to hearing from you
with your comments on this exciting edition.
http://www.nycshs.org/nycentral_modeler.php

Thanks, Noel

Kevin (not signing his full name) wrote:

http://www.precisionsteelcar.com/kits_box406.html

The link above is for a kit that I hope some of you guys can help me to find a prototype for. I want to build a few but want to match them to a prototype first. Note that the 6' door can be swapped to a Youngstown door.
Thanks for the help

Ben Hom said it very well. It is hard to guess what the designers of this model were trying to do, unless they wanted "a little bit of everything" in one package. But as Ben said, some modest changes would have permitted a LOT of correct car models. As it is, they got ZERO.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

Kevin <csxt5555@...> wrote:
http://www.precisionsteelcar.com/kits_box406.html

"The link above is for a kit that I hope some of you guys can help me
to find a prototype for. I want to build a few but want to match them
to a prototype first. Note that the 6' door can be swapped to a
Youngstown door."

Kevin, please take don't take this personally, but this model is a mishmash that does not match any prototype. It combines the sides and ends of the square-cornered modified 1937 AAR boxcar (IC, SOO, DSS&A only) and combines it with the roof of the postward Pullman-Standard PS-1. If you retool with a rectangular panel roof, you will have an accurate model of the IC, SOO, and DSS&A cars, but no others. (The more common modified 1937 AAR boxcar prototypes have W-section corner post or rounded-corner ends.) If you retool the ends as PS-1 ends, you can model PS-1s with riveted sides bult for CNW,DSS&A/SOO, FCP, and ASX.
http://www.steamerafreightcars.com/prototype/frtcars/PullmanStandard40ftPS1boxcars.xls

If you retool the ends to match the rounded corner 5/5 Dreadnaught ends, you'll be able to offer far more accurate roads:
http://www.steamerafreightcars.com/prototype/frtcars/mod37aarmain.html

Bottom line: This model matches no known prototype. If possible, recommend retooling to a rectangular panel roof and 5/5 rounded corner ends to open up a much larger number of accurate roads.


Ben Hom

At only $725.00 each, body only, I can't understand why they would be offering
quantity discounts?
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA





________________________________
From: Kevin <csxt5555@...>
To: "STMFC@..." <STMFC@...>
Sent: Thu, December 27, 2012 11:20:55 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Aar 40 ft boxcar


http://www.precisionsteelcar.com/kits_box406.html

The link above is for a kit that I hope some of you guys can help me to find a
prototype for. I want to build a few but want to match them to a prototype
first. Note that the 6' door can be swapped to a Youngstown door.
Thanks for the help

Kevin
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

http://www.precisionsteelcar.com/kits_box406.html

The link above is for a kit that I hope some of you guys can help me to find a prototype for. I want to build a few but want to match them to a prototype first. Note that the 6' door can be swapped to a Youngstown door.
Thanks for the help

Kevin

--- In STMFC@..., Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...> wrote:

Ray Breyer wrote:
"The ACL's 1947 freight car diagram book says that they were all rebuilt into
all-steel XMs and XAs between 1939-1944. The diagrams state 'Murphy improved
solid steel roofs, 1/8" steel sheets'"

We know that the ACL reused the original Murphy XLA roofs of their Class O-14
USRA DS boxcars during their mid-1930s rebuilding to Class O-14A steel boxcars. 
This would seem to indicate that the original Class O-16 boxcars had Murphy
roofs.


Ben Hom

Just want to point out that Murphy Solid Steel roofs from this early DID NOT have any pressed stiffeners in the panels; the rectangular panel pattern came later. This roof is illustrated in the 1922 Cyc., and the illustration shows a slight overhang at the edges, similar to the later ZU eave, but this was made by riveting a pressed angle to the top corner of the standard Z section eave. It's not clear if the roof was also available flanged to rivet directly to the Z section as was done later.

The main difference between this roof and the Hutchins roof modeled on the Accurail car is the narrow seem caps, basically the same as used on the later AAR style boxcars. The Hutchins roofs used a wide seam cap that covered both the panel edges and the structural carline; the Murphy roof did away with the separate carline, using the upward flanges of the heavier roof panels for structural strength.

Dennis