Date   

Re: Vertical distance between grab irons

Nelson Moyer <ku0a@...>
 

There isn't a consistent standard for the CB&Q across classes, but there is
a standard within classes. The Q used 6 or 7 grab ladders on sides and ends
depending upon era and class. Some grabs were mounted above the mounting
bolts and some were mounted below the mounting bolts. Sometimes the grabs
were straight 18 inch, sometimes they were drop 18 inch, and sometimes only
the bottom grabs were drop. The bottom side and end grabs were sometimes
half-drop. Sometimes, grabs were mounted both above and below the mounting
bolts on the same car! The left side had one grab before circa 1920 and two
grabs afterwards. With the XM-32, the Q started using 8 rung ladders on
sides and ends. Spacing would depend on car height and the number of grabs.
The Q remained eclectic to the end, running single-sheathed box cars into
the mid-1950s. That's why I model it.



Nelson Moyer

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
Marty McGuirk
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2012 7:03 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Vertical distance between grab irons







Hello all,

Is there a "standard" (or several "typical") distances between grab irons on
steam era box and hopper cars.

Bill's discussion of a running board hole positioning jig gave me an idea .
. .

And, I have access to a laser cutter.

Marty


Vertical distance between grab irons

Marty McGuirk
 

Hello all,



Is there a "standard" (or several "typical") distances between grab irons on steam era box and hopper cars.



Bill's discussion of a running board hole positioning jig gave me an idea  . . .



And, I have access to a laser cutter.



Marty





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: ORER 1947ish request

Allen Rueter
 

Tim,
   The vertical lines of the H are faint such that it could be S+PX, cause  a little loop in the center,
but that did help,
I also tried GHPX because I've seen some pretty sloppy cursive Gs , It seems odd

that it was recorded both north & south bound. The number is very clear!

 
--
Allen Rueter
StLouis MO


________________________________
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 7:12 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] ORER 1947ish request


 

SHPX 36159
Thinking it might be a transcription error.. SHPX 3615 does not exist
in 1950. SHPX 6159 doesn't exist either. So the number and/or reporting
marks are very likely wrong.

Tim O'Connor

SHPX 36159
Allen,
I show only one SHPX tank car, 38090, that appears in the 4/51 ORER with a number this high. In going through several hundred SHPX freight car orders built by ACF into the 1950s, other than this single car, I cannot find any SHPX tank cars higher than the 22xxx series. SHPX had covered hoppers in the 25xxx series.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: What did it say on the side of this tank car?

Andy Miller
 

But no one says anything about the crewman sitting on the tank car smoking a cigarette!

Andy Miller

----- Original Message -----
From: Anthony Thompson
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 11:39 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] What did it say on the side of this tank car?



Schuyler Larrabee wrote:
> http://www.shorpy.com/node/6628

The chalk marks seem to say X2194 (could be a train number)
plus a 7 and a 16.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Intermountain Modified 1937 AAR Boxcar

Paul Lyons
 

Bill,
Concern yes, but what would you suggest we do? IM is NOT going to make the correct running board for each of the models they do. That is just simply NEVER going to happen, no matter what kind of prototype modeler uprising takes place! I build enough resin kits that I have a stash of all kind of different roof walks and laterials and picking one that matches the prototype is just part of building an IM kit.
Paul Lyons

-----Original Message-----
From: WILLIAM PARDIE <PARDIEW001@...>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Wed, Feb 15, 2012 7:23 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Intermountain Modified 1937 AAR Boxcar





We have had quite a response to the lettering on the Intermountain 1937 boxcars. I have a bone to pick
concerning the wooden roof walks on these (and other Intermountain and Red Caboose cars). First, however,
let me say how much I appreciate the efforts that these companies and CB&T before them have bought to
the hobby. Anyone who is on the "older" side such as myself knows that you haven't lived until you have
attempted to carve the ladders of the ends of the old Athern cars.

Back to the roof walks. The moulding that both companies have used has the support bars for the end laterals
extending pase the ends (fore and aft) of the boards. I anxiously awaited the CYC Prototype edition covering
roof walks to see a photo of this application. Alas there was none. I contacted ED Hawkins and he graciously answered my
question. This application of the running board lateral supports appears on the drawing for these cars
in the 1940 Car Builders Cyclopedia. In practice, however, this style of support appears on very few cars.
The 1932 Ara Boxcars used it as did the SP B-50-19 (although the tabs to the side of the car were wider).
Intermountain also used this running board on their otherwise excellent Santa Fe war emergency box car.

There is not to my knowledge a proper running board casting on the market. Yes we can make one up from
wood or styrene, but why should we have to? To me this discrepancy is for more evident than an improper
reweigh date of the number of corrugations on a door.

Am I the only one with this concern?

Appreciate any thoughts.

Bill Pardie







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: What did it say on the side of this tank car?

Andy Carlson
 

Could that be a Dalman 2-level truck partially obscured by the worker?
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA





________________________________
From: Schuyler Larrabee <schuyler.larrabee@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wed, February 15, 2012 8:11:54 PM
Subject: [STMFC] What did it say on the side of this tank car?


http://www.shorpy.com/node/6628

Schuyler

=======
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: What did it say on the side of this tank car?

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Schuyler Larrabee wrote:
http://www.shorpy.com/node/6628
The chalk marks seem to say X2194 (could be a train number) plus a 7 and a 16.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: What did it say on the side of this tank car?

Steve SANDIFER
 

Good ole Philips 66.
______________
J. Stephen (Steve) Sandifer
mailto:steve.sandifer@...
Home: 12027 Mulholland Drive, Meadows Place, TX 77477, 281-568-9918
Office: Southwest Central Church of Christ, 4011 W. Bellfort, Houston, TX 77025, 713-667-9417

----- Original Message -----
From: Schuyler Larrabee
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 10:11 PM
Subject: [STMFC] What did it say on the side of this tank car?



http://www.shorpy.com/node/6628

Schuyler

=======
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What did it say on the side of this tank car?

Schuyler Larrabee
 

http://www.shorpy.com/node/6628

Schuyler







=======
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(Email Guard: 9.0.0.909, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.19260)
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Re: Intermountain Modified 1937 AAR Boxcar

WILLIAM PARDIE
 

We have had quite a response to the lettering on the Intermountain 1937 boxcars. I have a bone to pick
concerning the wooden roof walks on these (and other Intermountain and Red Caboose cars). First, however,
let me say how much I appreciate the efforts that these companies and CB&T before them have bought to
the hobby. Anyone who is on the "older" side such as myself knows that you haven't lived until you have
attempted to carve the ladders of the ends of the old Athern cars.

Back to the roof walks. The moulding that both companies have used has the support bars for the end laterals
extending pase the ends (fore and aft) of the boards. I anxiously awaited the CYC Prototype edition covering
roof walks to see a photo of this application. Alas there was none. I contacted ED Hawkins and he graciously answered my
question. This application of the running board lateral supports appears on the drawing for these cars
in the 1940 Car Builders Cyclopedia. In practice, however, this style of support appears on very few cars.
The 1932 Ara Boxcars used it as did the SP B-50-19 (although the tabs to the side of the car were wider).
Intermountain also used this running board on their otherwise excellent Santa Fe war emergency box car.

There is not to my knowledge a proper running board casting on the market. Yes we can make one up from
wood or styrene, but why should we have to? To me this discrepancy is for more evident than an improper
reweigh date of the number of corrugations on a door.

Am I the only one with this concern?

Appreciate any thoughts.

Bill Pardie


Re: Another Drill Jig or Template proposal--Kadee Running boards

mopacfirst
 

My results are a bit different. I cut off the end brackets on the first few, then found that the Kadee walk developed unpredictable upward curve at the ends, months after attachment. Now I drill out the ends of the car (not really that hard if the length is right, which it usually is on an injection molded carbody) and use a small amount of cement to anchor the end brackets. So far, so good, no hideous curl on those.

But I'm going to try your method for the lateral walks. The polymer those running boards are made of will take a permanent set if you bend the laterals downward firmly enough before installing, but I've had at least one of those come up.

Disclaimer: I have never installed one of these on a resin car, but I will be in the near future. I know full well the variation in dimensions on those.

Ron Merrick

--- In STMFC@..., Paul Lyons <cobrapsl@...> wrote:


Bill,
Just cut the mount pins off and glue it on with Barge cement, or whatever you use to secure the Plano walk. <snip>
Paul Lyons


-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Welch <fgexbill@...>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Wed, Feb 15, 2012 3:33 pm
Subject: [STMFC] Another Drill Jig or Template proposal--Kadee Running boards




I recently purchased some of the Kadee running boards and as I
attempt to finish a-long-ago-started NKP Sunshine War Emergency
Boxcar it occurred to me why not use one of these instead of the
planned photo-etched assembly, mainly because the photo-etch does not
capture the prototype's thickness IMO. But I was mildly surprised
that the are a lot of holes to be drilled if I want to take advantage
of the mechanical attachment option offered by the Kadee part.

Soooo......I am wondering if some of our more technically capable
people adept at precise measuring for example might want to link up w/
those comfortable with photo-etch or Laser Cutting to come up with a
Drill jig or Template to sell all of us to help us mount the very
fine Kadee part precisely. I mention laser cutting because I think I
would be perfectly happy with such a jig done w/heavy paper. These
could be offered as a package of several w/each to be tossed when
worn beyond use. Ideally such a tool would include the holes to be
drilled for the end supports

Bill Welch
2225 Nursery Road; #20-104
Clearwater, FL 33764-7622
727.470.9930
fgexbill@...

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


wine shipping and wine tank cars

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

I've posted on my blog a discussion of wine shipping and a little about wine tank cars (good models and bad). The intent was to clarify the wine business for anyone wanting to model this industry, or to handle wine tank cars on their layout. If you're interested, here's a link:

http://modelingthesp.blogspot.com/2012/02/wine-as-industrial-commodity.html

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Another Drill Jig or Template proposal--Kadee Running boards

Paul Lyons
 

Bill,
Just cut the mount pins off and glue it on with Barge cement, or whatever you use to secure the Plano walk. I have found the laterial walks do not fit any roof exactly right except the Kadee roof. So I also cut the mounting pin and "roof attachment" pieces off the end of the laterial walk. There I add "L" shaped pieces of brass (could be styrene) and adjust them to fit the roof width before the Barge cement dries. Never have figured out how to use the roof walk end support, because again, anything except the Kadee roof is either to long, or short, for them to seat properly.
Unless you are dealing with a roof of the exact same dimensions as the Kadee roof as to lenght, width, pitch, and rib spacing, you are going to have problems trying use the mechnical attachment pins.
Paul Lyons

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Welch <fgexbill@...>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Wed, Feb 15, 2012 3:33 pm
Subject: [STMFC] Another Drill Jig or Template proposal--Kadee Running boards




I recently purchased some of the Kadee running boards and as I
attempt to finish a-long-ago-started NKP Sunshine War Emergency
Boxcar it occurred to me why not use one of these instead of the
planned photo-etched assembly, mainly because the photo-etch does not
capture the prototype's thickness IMO. But I was mildly surprised
that the are a lot of holes to be drilled if I want to take advantage
of the mechanical attachment option offered by the Kadee part.

Soooo......I am wondering if some of our more technically capable
people adept at precise measuring for example might want to link up w/
those comfortable with photo-etch or Laser Cutting to come up with a
Drill jig or Template to sell all of us to help us mount the very
fine Kadee part precisely. I mention laser cutting because I think I
would be perfectly happy with such a jig done w/heavy paper. These
could be offered as a package of several w/each to be tossed when
worn beyond use. Ideally such a tool would include the holes to be
drilled for the end supports

Bill Welch
2225 Nursery Road; #20-104
Clearwater, FL 33764-7622
727.470.9930
fgexbill@...

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Another Drill Jig or Template proposal--Kadee Running boards

Bill Welch
 

I recently purchased some of the Kadee running boards and as I
attempt to finish a-long-ago-started NKP Sunshine War Emergency
Boxcar it occurred to me why not use one of these instead of the
planned photo-etched assembly, mainly because the photo-etch does not
capture the prototype's thickness IMO. But I was mildly surprised
that the are a lot of holes to be drilled if I want to take advantage
of the mechanical attachment option offered by the Kadee part.

Soooo......I am wondering if some of our more technically capable
people adept at precise measuring for example might want to link up w/
those comfortable with photo-etch or Laser Cutting to come up with a
Drill jig or Template to sell all of us to help us mount the very
fine Kadee part precisely. I mention laser cutting because I think I
would be perfectly happy with such a jig done w/heavy paper. These
could be offered as a package of several w/each to be tossed when
worn beyond use. Ideally such a tool would include the holes to be
drilled for the end supports

Bill Welch
2225 Nursery Road; #20-104
Clearwater, FL 33764-7622
727.470.9930
fgexbill@...


Re: Gondolas with scrap loads

Aley, Jeff A
 

Of course; Dan (and any other presenter) can give his clinic in as many places as he likes; I'd just like to have one of those places be Cocoa Beach.

Regards,

-Jeff


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Anthony Thompson
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 2:58 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Gondolas with scrap loads



Aley, Jeff A wrote:
Dan,
My area of interest would be to have you give your
presentation at Prototype Rails '13 in Cocoa Beach, Florida!
Heck, how about both? Rails '13 as well as Naperville.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...<mailto:thompson%40signaturepress.com>
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Gondolas with scrap loads

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Aley, Jeff A wrote:
Dan,
My area of interest would be to have you give your presentation at Prototype Rails '13 in Cocoa Beach, Florida!
Heck, how about both? Rails '13 as well as Naperville.


Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Gondolas with scrap loads

Aley, Jeff A
 

Dan,

My area of interest would be to have you give your presentation at Prototype Rails '13 in Cocoa Beach, Florida!

Regards,

-Jeff Aley
Clinic Chairman, PR'13

P.S. I'm not kidding.


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of lstt100@...
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 6:05 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Gondolas with scrap loads


Part II? I'm willing, but I'll allow list members to direct me to their areas of interest concerning this years Car Service presentation. More detailed? Tank car use in WWII? I'm listening!

Dan Holbrook


Re: Car Shortages was Re: Gondolas with scrap loads (UNCLASSIFIED)

Joel Holmes <lehighvalley@...>
 

Hi Tom,

Correct. I should have stated that. We on the GN were not so lucky as we
had 1800+/- miles of track.

Joel

Joel,
Get them to the interchange track by midnight and the other road got to
pay the per diem.

Tom VanWormer
Monument CO

Joel Holmes wrote:



Hi Jim,

To the best of my knowledge, this is true. I worked for the GN/BN during
from 68 to 84. I remember we discussed the per diem charges because we
were having trouble getting our cars back from the east. It was sometime
in the period that they went to the mileage, time basis for car hire. I
remember hearing that the D&RGW was running short fast freight and was
avoiding per diem on these cars because they did not have them at
midnight, the time per diem was charged.

Joel Holmes

I recall a newspaper article that stated per diem charges needed to to
be revised upward because it was cheaper to "rent" cars on per diem
charges than repair or purchase new cars. (This found in a car
shortages
file). Western railroads claimed there was no incentive to build
additional cars if they left the home road for long intervals, and for
the roads that kept them, it was cheaper to deal with the per diem
than
the build back their own fleet. I will see if I can find and upload
the
newspaper article. Jim Dick







Re: Car Shortages was Re: Gondolas with scrap loads (UNCLASSIFIED)

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Good points, guys, and I would love to see other evidence of this.

I recall strings of dead gons, many with blown-out flooring and/or ripped sides, sitting on sidings all over the PRR, and foreign-road gons all over the place in their stead.

That is why I have several bad order gons for placement on sidings, to get the flavor right. My friends think it's funny to spend all that money just to have a car that gets pulled out for placement on a siding or RIP track, but hey, it's accurate for my time period.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of np328
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 3:07 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Car Shortages was Re: Gondolas with scrap loads (UNCLASSIFIED)



I recall a newspaper article that stated per diem charges needed to to be revised upward because it was cheaper to "rent" cars on per diem charges than repair or purchase new cars. (This found in a car shortages file). Western railroads claimed there was no incentive to build additional cars if they left the home road for long intervals, and for the roads that kept them, it was cheaper to deal with the per diem than the build back their own fleet. I will see if I can find and upload the newspaper article. Jim Dick

--- In STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , "Gatwood, Elden SAW" <elden.j.gatwood@...> wrote:

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

The PRR got bad ordered cars back in service as fast or faster than their own cars because they were paying per diem and wanted to get paid for repairs, but any cars they didn't need (small or unclean box cars, small hoppers) got off PRR rails ASAP. Cars they did need (gons) they kept. The PRR also had a huge percentage of PRR cars in short-term or long-term storage simply because they were obsolescent or worn-out, they were low on cash for large-scale repairs, and would rather spend the money on leases of cars they did need. Hence the long strings of worn-out X29s awaiting disposition.

Elden

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf Of olderail
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 8:31 PM
To: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [STMFC] Car Shortages was Re: Gondolas with scrap loads
Thought came to mind where were these cars sitting on the rip track? Were they on "Eastern" rip tracks or on "Western" roads'
rip tracks? I vaguely recall a'60's trade publication article about a western road using it's rip tracks on a positive cash flow basis. In other words keep them full with cars from foreign roads.

By the same token a road couldn't make unneeded repairs to a foreign car because if they got caught they forfeited all their repair billings for a long enough period to make it painful.
The AAR had inspectors to check for this.

Dick Haave
***************

--- In STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , "np328" <jcdworkingonthenp@> wrote:

Steve, the reasoning you give per the CN makes much sense.

However regarding the Pennsy.....

From an August 22, 1950 document I have and will upload the image.
---------------
Repairing Bad Order Cars
--------------------
Your July 1st, 1950 car report 60-A will indicate that the eastern carriers have entirely too great a proportion of their box cars sitting on the repair tracks. The Pennsylvania railroad had 9,224 box cars on the repair tracks at that time and the New York Central had 6,358 in similar position.

This represents a total of 15,582 box cars out of service on just those two lines where as only 12,887 were on the repair tracks on all railroads in the United States west of the Mississippi river.

The relationship of cars on the repair tracks to total ownership was 7 percent in the Eastern District; 11.7 in the Allegheny; as compared to only 4.1 in the three Western districts.

There is no speedier way of increasing our available car supply than by expediting the repair of these cars.
----------------

I will upload the image to a folder in the photo section called
Nelson-Gilbert Addendums. There is even data (honest) on the UP on the image page.
Jim Dick - St. Paul

PS - no pot shots at either the PRR or NYC are intended. The information is supplied to bring clarity into past history and understanding. I know and respect people from both these groups.


But in all fairness, it's said that the Pennsy supplied the US rail system with freight cars. Having fewer route miles than CN and almost twice the cars, this must have been an even bigger issue to the PRR. I imagine that the Pennsy must have continually fought with other roads to get their cars back. The capital cost of supplying its own cars to other roads probably did not help the PRR's finances. Maybe this led to the PRR's desire to merge with NYC? I recall that this was proposed late in the STMFC era.

Steve Lucas.




Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE




Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE


Re: Car Shortages was Re: Gondolas with scrap loads (UNCLASSIFIED)

Tom Vanwormer
 

Joel,
Get them to the interchange track by midnight and the other road got to
pay the per diem.

Tom VanWormer
Monument CO

Joel Holmes wrote:



Hi Jim,

To the best of my knowledge, this is true. I worked for the GN/BN during
from 68 to 84. I remember we discussed the per diem charges because we
were having trouble getting our cars back from the east. It was sometime
in the period that they went to the mileage, time basis for car hire. I
remember hearing that the D&RGW was running short fast freight and was
avoiding per diem on these cars because they did not have them at
midnight, the time per diem was charged.

Joel Holmes

I recall a newspaper article that stated per diem charges needed to to
be revised upward because it was cheaper to "rent" cars on per diem
charges than repair or purchase new cars. (This found in a car shortages
file). Western railroads claimed there was no incentive to build
additional cars if they left the home road for long intervals, and for
the roads that kept them, it was cheaper to deal with the per diem than
the build back their own fleet. I will see if I can find and upload the
newspaper article. Jim Dick

87761 - 87780 of 194734