Over the past several years, we have lost a number of photographers and/or collectors of photos and negatives. Does anyone know what has become of the collections of the following:

1. John Hummeston [I'm not sure of the spelling, but I understand he had a signficiant number of photos and negatives.]

2. Robert Malinoski from the Pittsburgh area. I'm not sure about the spelling there either, but he also took many photos and slides.

3. Bill Raia purchased many photo and negative collections from others and was a great source of prototypical information. What has happened to his collection?

Tom

________________________________________

Several thoughts, Bill.



You mean B&O C-16 wagontop express cars converted from M-53 boxcars.

Technically, these were not REA cars.

Just 25 cars (1875-1899) of the 125 total C-16 express cars (1875-1999) lasted
long enough for blue paint.  Blue paint introduced in early 1947, the 25 cars
were converted back to their M-53 identities in 1959.

There is only one known photo of a car in the blue scheme.  There is a general
diagram which has been xeroxed way too many times. only partly legible.    A
1949 B&O passenger equipment paint listing shows only five cars so painted, this
is what we know for sure.  That is all the source material.  Since  ExactRail
and Fox Valley used these in their HO program and their product  turned out
great, these might be sufficient for you.

"Baltimore and Ohio" is five inch high B&O Extended Roman lettering.  Font would
match B&O passenger letterboard lettering, spacing might be different to miss
all those ribs.

B&O imitation gold is a dusky dark spicey mustard color, not gold leaf or
bright Big Bird yellow.  It looks bright yellow in published photos because (1)
colors in Morning Sun books are cooked for sales sizzle, like National
Geographic, thus misleading, and (2)imitation gold lettering was stencilled on
black, dark blue, or dark green equipment, and looks brighter than it really is
due to visual contrast.

B&O C-16 wagontop express cars were scarce.  They did not last long as a 125 car
fleet (roughly 1941-1948), and the remaining 25 were outnumbered by 100 C-17
troop sleeper conversions, 100 C-15 50' baggage cars, and dozens of B-8a baggage
cars. 




Contact me off list.  We can arrange something.






________________________________
From: Bill Lane <bill@...>
To: B & O List <Baltimore_and_Ohio@...>; S Scale List
<S-Scale@...>; Steam Era Freight cars <STMFC@...>
Sent: Tue, September 11, 2012 6:06:35 PM
Subject: [Baltimore_and_Ohio] REA Scheme B&O M53

All,



I am looking for any information possible to make a new decal set for the
B&O M52 in the blue REA scheme. It is a pretty simple car in terms of
lettering. I would prefer real B&O drawings if possible.



Please reply directly. Any help would be appreciated.



Thank You,
Bill Lane

Modeling the Mighty Pennsy & PRSL in 1957 in S Scale since 1988

See my finished models at:
<http://www.lanestrains.com/> http://www.lanestrains.com
Look at what has been made in PRR in S Scale!



See my layout progess at:

<http://www.lanestrains.com/My_Layout.htm>
http://www.lanestrains.com/My_Layout.htm

Custom Train Parts Design
<http://www.lanestrains.com/SolidWorks_Modeling.htm>
http://www.lanestrains.com/SolidWorks_Modeling.htm

PRR Builders Photos Bought, Sold & Traded
(Trading is MUCH preferred)
<http://www.lanestrains.com/PRRphotos.xls>
http://www.lanestrains.com/PRRphotos.xls

***Join the PRR T&HS***
The other members are not ALL like me!
<http://www.prrths.com/> http://www.prrths.com
<http://www.lanestrains.com/PRRTHS_Application.pdf>
http://www.lanestrains.com/PRRTHS_Application.pdf

Join the Pennsylvania Reading Seashore Lines Historical Society
It's FREE to join!  <http://www.prslhs.com/> http://www.prslhs.com
Preserving The Memory Of The PRSL









------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thank you Bob, very interesting. The steel bracing used for the superstructure of the K7, R7, and X23/24 group of cars is a "Warren Truss" arrangement. I have read somewhere that this arrangement acted as a cantilever in terms of how it performed its tasks, and it interesting to see"cantilevers" mentioned in the description pf the U/F.

Bill Welch

Send him an email at speedwitch at gmail.com if he has what you want he typically responds in a few days.



Mark



From: Bill Daniels [mailto:billinsf@...]
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 5:30 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Question






I've been away for a while and it seems there have been some changes... I can't seem to find Ted Cullota's Speedwitch site... I would like to pick up some more decals as well as some of his kits. it seems that his websites are down. What happened?

Bill Daniels,
San Francisco, CA.
On Sep 11, 2012, at 2:23 PM, "rwitt_2000" <rwitt_2000@... <mailto:rwitt_2000%40yahoo.com> > wrote:

Bill is correct.

According to the B&O diagrams the type of Duryea underframe changed
during the production of the M-55B by Pullman-Standard. These 100 cars
differed from the previous productions with the Duryea underframe
updated to accept the AAR Z-26 center sill. They were termed "Type-1
single spring and AAR Z-26 center sill". The next orders for new 40-ft
box cars with IH of 10'-0" the class M-55c and M-55H built in 1945 and
1947 respectively had the same type of Duryea underframe. The last 40-ft
box cars with an IH of 10'-0" built for the B&O with Duryea underframes,
the class M-56, had "Duryea underframes with double springs and AAR Z-26
41.2# center sill".

The class M-58 and M-59 automobile box cars were built just after WWII
beginning in 1945 also had the updated Type-1 single spring Duryea
underframe with the AAR Z-26 center sill.

The next group of B&O box cars built in 1951, the class M-60 and class
M-61, which were 50-ft with an IH of 10'-6", had the later "Duryea
underframes with double springs and AAR Z-26 41.2# center sill".

I am not sure there are obvious external differences that can be modeled
between the "Type-1 single spring" and the later "double spring"
versions as the the springs are located inside the center sill.

The O. C. Duryea company filed and received many new patents for all
these changes and variations.

Some may notice that the built years and the class numbers are out of
order. The B&OHS does not have any memos explaining why.

Beginning with the M-55 and ending with the M-61 the build order is as
follows:

M-55 1940
M-55A 1941
M-57 1941
M-55B 1942
M-55C 1945
M-58 1945
M-59 1946-47
M-55H 1947
M-60 1951
M-61 1951
M-56 1952

All have Duryea underframes

These were the classes assigned when built new and all other sub-classes
were due to railroad made modifications usually for auto parts service.

Regards,

Bob Witt

Bill Darnaby wrote:

Beware of Sunshine's instructions as they would apply to an M55H.

Martin

provides parts and instructions for a Duryea UF as it would be applied

to an

M53 which was obsolete by the time the M55's came along...at least

that's

the way my Sunshine M55 kits came. I don't know about the separate

Duryea

kit. The Duryea under the M55's and their contemporaries lacked the
longitudinal angles that ran across the 4 cross bearers. Plans for

the

modern Duryea appear in the 46 and 50 Car Builders Cycs, IIRC.

Bill Darnaby

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf

Of Mark

M
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2012 8:17 PM
To: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [STMFC] duryea

Greetings.

Sunshine sells these and was wondering if that has five frames?

The B&O M55H is coming along and just hope to make it right!

Sincerely, Mark Morgan

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In STMFC@..., "Al and Patricia Westerfield" <westerfieldalfred@...> wrote:

Mike â€" This was a standard NYC design for almost a decade before the USRA design. I had wanted to do this car but just never got around to it. As far as I am aware, no other road had identical cars. â€" Al Westerfield

No unaffiliated railroads as such, but there were a few industrial piggyback orders.

David Thompson

All,



I am looking for any information possible to make a new decal set for the
B&O M52 in the blue REA scheme. It is a pretty simple car in terms of
lettering. I would prefer real B&O drawings if possible.



Please reply directly. Any help would be appreciated.



Thank You,
Bill Lane

Modeling the Mighty Pennsy & PRSL in 1957 in S Scale since 1988

See my finished models at:
<http://www.lanestrains.com/> http://www.lanestrains.com
Look at what has been made in PRR in S Scale!



See my layout progess at:

<http://www.lanestrains.com/My_Layout.htm>
http://www.lanestrains.com/My_Layout.htm

Custom Train Parts Design
<http://www.lanestrains.com/SolidWorks_Modeling.htm>
http://www.lanestrains.com/SolidWorks_Modeling.htm

PRR Builders Photos Bought, Sold & Traded
(Trading is MUCH preferred)
<http://www.lanestrains.com/PRRphotos.xls>
http://www.lanestrains.com/PRRphotos.xls

***Join the PRR T&HS***
The other members are not ALL like me!
<http://www.prrths.com/> http://www.prrths.com
<http://www.lanestrains.com/PRRTHS_Application.pdf>
http://www.lanestrains.com/PRRTHS_Application.pdf

Join the Pennsylvania Reading Seashore Lines Historical Society
It's FREE to join! <http://www.prslhs.com/> http://www.prslhs.com
Preserving The Memory Of The PRSL

--- In STMFC@..., "dochauk" <dochauk@...> wrote:

I was wondering if anyone can identify the types of hoppers in thse
photos:
SNY Marsh Hill yard
<http://www.black-swan-images.com/photos/839687621_YrSTc-L.jpg>
SNY Marsh Hill yard 2
<http://www.black-swan-images.com/photos/839689166_ZWjW7-L.jpg>
SNY Hopper
<http://www.black-swan-images.com/photos/i-GPNMGLs/0/XL/i-GPNMGLs-XL.jpg\;

These were the New York Central System's variation on the 1905 Common Design hopper, the primary differences being the pressed shapes used for the side and end sills, and the three end sheet supports. NYCS (but not P&LE, interestingly) received cars to this design from 1909 to 1917. Many were 10 feet tall at the top of the sides, but some were 10'6".

David Thompson

Thanks, Brian... just goes to show just how vulnerable many of our hobby businesses actually are.

 
Bill Daniels
San Francisco, CA



________________________________
From: Brian carlson <prrk41361@...>
To: "STMFC@..." <STMFC@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 3:08 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Question


 
Good luck. You might be able to find some of ted's stuff on eBay and maybe shows but he seems to be generally out of business which is a shame.

Brian Carlson
On Sep 11, 2012, at 5:29 PM, Bill Daniels <billinsf@...> wrote:

I've been away for a while and it seems there have been some changes... I can't seem to find Ted Cullota's Speedwitch site... I would like to pick up some more decals as well as some of his kits. it seems that his websites are down. What happened?

Bill Daniels,
San Francisco, CA.

Sent from my iPad

On Sep 11, 2012, at 2:23 PM, "rwitt_2000" <rwitt_2000@...> wrote:

Bill is correct.

According to the B&O diagrams the type of Duryea underframe changed
during the production of the M-55B by Pullman-Standard. These 100 cars
differed from the previous productions with the Duryea underframe
updated to accept the AAR Z-26 center sill. They were termed "Type-1
single spring and AAR Z-26 center sill". The next orders for new 40-ft
box cars with IH of 10'-0" the class M-55c and M-55H built in 1945 and
1947 respectively had the same type of Duryea underframe. The last 40-ft
box cars with an IH of 10'-0" built for the B&O with Duryea underframes,
the class M-56, had "Duryea underframes with double springs and AAR Z-26
41.2# center sill".

The class M-58 and M-59 automobile box cars were built just after WWII
beginning in 1945 also had the updated Type-1 single spring Duryea
underframe with the AAR Z-26 center sill.

The next group of B&O box cars built in 1951, the class M-60 and class
M-61, which were 50-ft with an IH of 10'-6", had the later "Duryea
underframes with double springs and AAR Z-26 41.2# center sill".

I am not sure there are obvious external differences that can be modeled
between the "Type-1 single spring" and the later "double spring"
versions as the the springs are located inside the center sill.

The O. C. Duryea company filed and received many new patents for all
these changes and variations.

Some may notice that the built years and the class numbers are out of
order. The B&OHS does not have any memos explaining why.

Beginning with the M-55 and ending with the M-61 the build order is as
follows:

M-55 1940
M-55A 1941
M-57 1941
M-55B 1942
M-55C 1945
M-58 1945
M-59 1946-47
M-55H 1947
M-60 1951
M-61 1951
M-56 1952

All have Duryea underframes

These were the classes assigned when built new and all other sub-classes
were due to railroad made modifications usually for auto parts service.

Regards,

Bob Witt

Bill Darnaby wrote:

Beware of Sunshine's instructions as they would apply to an M55H.

Martin

provides parts and instructions for a Duryea UF as it would be applied

to an

M53 which was obsolete by the time the M55's came along...at least

that's

the way my Sunshine M55 kits came. I don't know about the separate

Duryea

kit. The Duryea under the M55's and their contemporaries lacked the
longitudinal angles that ran across the 4 cross bearers. Plans for

the

modern Duryea appear in the 46 and 50 Car Builders Cycs, IIRC.

Bill Darnaby

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf

Of Mark

M
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2012 8:17 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] duryea

Greetings.

Sunshine sells these and was wondering if that has five frames?

The B&O M55H is coming along and just hope to make it right!

Sincerely, Mark Morgan

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Bill Daniels asks with regard to Ted Culotta:

" What happened?"

Ted Culotta's disappearance have led to several theories.

1. He never really existed...some say his real name is George Kaplan.

2. Some note a startling increase in the flat earth followers at the same time as Culotta's disapperance. Some say he fell off.

3. Some believe he went to Mars on the latest NASA Mars lander.

4. I tend to believe he has dedicated himself to rebuilding UP Big Boy #4025 which was discovered 2 years ago in a ballast mine in excellent shape near Bruceford, WY.

If anyone has seen Ted [ or George as it might be ], let me know. We want him to do a clinic at Prototype Rails 2013.

Mike Brock

Good luck. You might be able to find some of ted's stuff on eBay and maybe shows but he seems to be generally out of business which is a shame.

Brian Carlson
On Sep 11, 2012, at 5:29 PM, Bill Daniels <billinsf@...> wrote:

I've been away for a while and it seems there have been some changes... I can't seem to find Ted Cullota's Speedwitch site... I would like to pick up some more decals as well as some of his kits. it seems that his websites are down. What happened?

Bill Daniels,
San Francisco, CA.

Sent from my iPad

On Sep 11, 2012, at 2:23 PM, "rwitt_2000" <rwitt_2000@...> wrote:

Bill is correct.

According to the B&O diagrams the type of Duryea underframe changed
during the production of the M-55B by Pullman-Standard. These 100 cars
differed from the previous productions with the Duryea underframe
updated to accept the AAR Z-26 center sill. They were termed "Type-1
single spring and AAR Z-26 center sill". The next orders for new 40-ft
box cars with IH of 10'-0" the class M-55c and M-55H built in 1945 and
1947 respectively had the same type of Duryea underframe. The last 40-ft
box cars with an IH of 10'-0" built for the B&O with Duryea underframes,
the class M-56, had "Duryea underframes with double springs and AAR Z-26
41.2# center sill".

The class M-58 and M-59 automobile box cars were built just after WWII
beginning in 1945 also had the updated Type-1 single spring Duryea
underframe with the AAR Z-26 center sill.

The next group of B&O box cars built in 1951, the class M-60 and class
M-61, which were 50-ft with an IH of 10'-6", had the later "Duryea
underframes with double springs and AAR Z-26 41.2# center sill".

I am not sure there are obvious external differences that can be modeled
between the "Type-1 single spring" and the later "double spring"
versions as the the springs are located inside the center sill.

The O. C. Duryea company filed and received many new patents for all
these changes and variations.

Some may notice that the built years and the class numbers are out of
order. The B&OHS does not have any memos explaining why.

Beginning with the M-55 and ending with the M-61 the build order is as
follows:

M-55 1940
M-55A 1941
M-57 1941
M-55B 1942
M-55C 1945
M-58 1945
M-59 1946-47
M-55H 1947
M-60 1951
M-61 1951
M-56 1952

All have Duryea underframes

These were the classes assigned when built new and all other sub-classes
were due to railroad made modifications usually for auto parts service.

Regards,

Bob Witt

Bill Darnaby wrote:

Beware of Sunshine's instructions as they would apply to an M55H.

Martin

provides parts and instructions for a Duryea UF as it would be applied

to an

M53 which was obsolete by the time the M55's came along...at least

that's

the way my Sunshine M55 kits came. I don't know about the separate

Duryea

kit. The Duryea under the M55's and their contemporaries lacked the
longitudinal angles that ran across the 4 cross bearers. Plans for

the

modern Duryea appear in the 46 and 50 Car Builders Cycs, IIRC.

Bill Darnaby

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf

Of Mark

M
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2012 8:17 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] duryea

Greetings.

Sunshine sells these and was wondering if that has five frames?

The B&O M55H is coming along and just hope to make it right!

Sincerely, Mark Morgan

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I've been away for a while and it seems there have been some changes... I can't seem to find Ted Cullota's Speedwitch site... I would like to pick up some more decals as well as some of his kits. it seems that his websites are down. What happened?

Bill Daniels,
San Francisco, CA.
On Sep 11, 2012, at 2:23 PM, "rwitt_2000" <rwitt_2000@...> wrote:

Bill is correct.

According to the B&O diagrams the type of Duryea underframe changed
during the production of the M-55B by Pullman-Standard. These 100 cars
differed from the previous productions with the Duryea underframe
updated to accept the AAR Z-26 center sill. They were termed "Type-1
single spring and AAR Z-26 center sill". The next orders for new 40-ft
box cars with IH of 10'-0" the class M-55c and M-55H built in 1945 and
1947 respectively had the same type of Duryea underframe. The last 40-ft
box cars with an IH of 10'-0" built for the B&O with Duryea underframes,
the class M-56, had "Duryea underframes with double springs and AAR Z-26
41.2# center sill".

The class M-58 and M-59 automobile box cars were built just after WWII
beginning in 1945 also had the updated Type-1 single spring Duryea
underframe with the AAR Z-26 center sill.

The next group of B&O box cars built in 1951, the class M-60 and class
M-61, which were 50-ft with an IH of 10'-6", had the later "Duryea
underframes with double springs and AAR Z-26 41.2# center sill".

I am not sure there are obvious external differences that can be modeled
between the "Type-1 single spring" and the later "double spring"
versions as the the springs are located inside the center sill.

The O. C. Duryea company filed and received many new patents for all
these changes and variations.

Some may notice that the built years and the class numbers are out of
order. The B&OHS does not have any memos explaining why.

Beginning with the M-55 and ending with the M-61 the build order is as
follows:

M-55 1940
M-55A 1941
M-57 1941
M-55B 1942
M-55C 1945
M-58 1945
M-59 1946-47
M-55H 1947
M-60 1951
M-61 1951
M-56 1952

All have Duryea underframes

These were the classes assigned when built new and all other sub-classes
were due to railroad made modifications usually for auto parts service.

Regards,

Bob Witt

Bill Darnaby wrote:

Beware of Sunshine's instructions as they would apply to an M55H.

Martin

provides parts and instructions for a Duryea UF as it would be applied

to an

M53 which was obsolete by the time the M55's came along...at least

that's

the way my Sunshine M55 kits came. I don't know about the separate

Duryea

kit. The Duryea under the M55's and their contemporaries lacked the
longitudinal angles that ran across the 4 cross bearers. Plans for

the

modern Duryea appear in the 46 and 50 Car Builders Cycs, IIRC.

Bill Darnaby

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf

Of Mark

M
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2012 8:17 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] duryea

Greetings.

Sunshine sells these and was wondering if that has five frames?

The B&O M55H is coming along and just hope to make it right!

Sincerely, Mark Morgan

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Bill is correct.

According to the B&O diagrams the type of Duryea underframe changed
during the production of the M-55B by Pullman-Standard. These 100 cars
differed from the previous productions with the Duryea underframe
updated to accept the AAR Z-26 center sill. They were termed "Type-1
single spring and AAR Z-26 center sill". The next orders for new 40-ft
box cars with IH of 10'-0" the class M-55c and M-55H built in 1945 and
1947 respectively had the same type of Duryea underframe. The last 40-ft
box cars with an IH of 10'-0" built for the B&O with Duryea underframes,
the class M-56, had "Duryea underframes with double springs and AAR Z-26
41.2# center sill".

The class M-58 and M-59 automobile box cars were built just after WWII
beginning in 1945 also had the updated Type-1 single spring Duryea
underframe with the AAR Z-26 center sill.

The next group of B&O box cars built in 1951, the class M-60 and class
M-61, which were 50-ft with an IH of 10'-6", had the later "Duryea
underframes with double springs and AAR Z-26 41.2# center sill".

I am not sure there are obvious external differences that can be modeled
between the "Type-1 single spring" and the later "double spring"
versions as the the springs are located inside the center sill.

The O. C. Duryea company filed and received many new patents for all
these changes and variations.

Some may notice that the built years and the class numbers are out of
order. The B&OHS does not have any memos explaining why.

Beginning with the M-55 and ending with the M-61 the build order is as
follows:

M-55 1940
M-55A 1941
M-57 1941
M-55B 1942
M-55C 1945
M-58 1945
M-59 1946-47
M-55H 1947
M-60 1951
M-61 1951
M-56 1952

All have Duryea underframes

These were the classes assigned when built new and all other sub-classes
were due to railroad made modifications usually for auto parts service.

Regards,

Bob Witt

Bill Darnaby wrote:

Beware of Sunshine's instructions as they would apply to an M55H.

Martin

provides parts and instructions for a Duryea UF as it would be applied

to an

M53 which was obsolete by the time the M55's came along...at least

that's

the way my Sunshine M55 kits came. I don't know about the separate

Duryea

kit. The Duryea under the M55's and their contemporaries lacked the
longitudinal angles that ran across the 4 cross bearers. Plans for

the

modern Duryea appear in the 46 and 50 Car Builders Cycs, IIRC.

Bill Darnaby

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf

Of Mark

M
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2012 8:17 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] duryea

Greetings.

Sunshine sells these and was wondering if that has five frames?

The B&O M55H is coming along and just hope to make it right!

Sincerely, Mark Morgan

Beware of Sunshine's instructions as they would apply to an M55H. Martin
provides parts and instructions for a Duryea UF as it would be applied to an
M53 which was obsolete by the time the M55's came along...at least that's
the way my Sunshine M55 kits came. I don't know about the separate Duryea
kit. The Duryea under the M55's and their contemporaries lacked the
longitudinal angles that ran across the 4 cross bearers. Plans for the
modern Duryea appear in the 46 and 50 Car Builders Cycs, IIRC.

Bill Darnaby

The price list says 5.

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon
www.sunshinekits.com

On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 6:17 PM, Mark M <bnonut@...> wrote:

**


Greetings.

Sunshine sells these and was wondering if that has five frames?

The B&O M55H is coming along and just hope to make it right!

Sincerely, Mark Morgan

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Bill Welch wrote:

Did the Pennsy have an official or de facto designation for the common

underframe they used with their K7, R7, and X23/24 group of cars?

Bill,
According to the trade press articles there is no such designation other
than it was a common design leading to all-steel car construction. The
article claims that shippers, traffic department, agreed to have the box
car also to be constructed from wood, but should conditions change the
sides could be easily replaced with steel sheathing. [I guess the war
emergency designs were not so original]
The underframes are described to be of the same type as used on
passenger cars where the load of the superstructure and the lading are
transferred to the centersill through the crossbearers or cantilevers
and the end sills. Apparently from the description the body bolsters did
not transfer any of the load.
Bob Witt
References:
Railway Gazette Mechanical Division vol. 88 no. 8 August 1914 p.419
[X25]Railway Age Gazette vol. 53 no. 14, October 4, 1912, p. 632 [X23,
R7, and K7]American Engineer, October 1912, p. 502Daily Raiway Age
Gazette June 13, 1914, p. 1412

On Sep 10, 2012, at 6:27 PM, lrkdbn wrote:

Dear list
Does anyone know of a source for American Car and Foundry
drawings i.e.along the lines of the IRM Pullman/Haskell and Barker
collection? I am especially interested in Berwick plant production in
the 1907-12 period.
Sincerely yours,
Laurance King<lrkdbn@...>

Laurance,
It's apparent the ACF drawings from circa pre-1930 were thrown out by
the company decades ago. The same was true for bills of materials for
cars built before 1931. Chances are ACF cleaned house sometime in the
1960s or early 1970s. Luckily not everything was trashed.

A large collection of ACF drawings are kept at the Museum of
Transportation. While there are a smattering of drawings from the late
1920s, the main part of the collection is from the early 1930s through
1950s and later.

The St. Louis Mercantile Library has the ACF bills of materials for
cars built from 1931 to 1952 as well as the ACF builder's photo
collection dating back to even before ACF became a company in 1899.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins

Dear list
Does anyone know of a source for American Car and Foundry
drawings i.e.along the lines of the IRM Pullman/Haskell and Barker
collection? I am especially interested in Berwick plant production in the 1907-12 period.
Sincerely yours,
Laurance King<lrkdbn@...>

The C&O had similar cars built around 1905-1910 era.  That flared side-sill extension to catch the slope joint is unique to one builder.  I sent all "my" 1916 ICC VAL  pix BACK to be scanned.  For some reason I want to say ACF but they were buying from ACF, Pullman, Standard and Pressed Steel all at the same time.



Al Kresse

Mike – This was a standard NYC design for almost a decade before the USRA design. I had wanted to do this car but just never got around to it. As far as I am aware, no other road had identical cars. – Al Westerfield

From: benjaminfrank_hom
Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2012 9:51 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Identify this hopper?




Mike Hauk asked:
"I was wondering if anyone can identify the types of hoppers in thse
photos:

SNY Marsh Hill yard
<http://www.black-swan-images.com/photos/839687621_YrSTc-L.jpg>

SNY Marsh Hill yard 2
<http://www.black-swan-images.com/photos/839689166_ZWjW7-L.jpg>

SNY Hopper
<http://www.black-swan-images.com/photos/i-GPNMGLs/0/XL/i-GPNMGLs-XL.jpg>

I can't tell if they are a USRA type, or related to another
manufacturer such as Pressed Steel."

Do not fall into the common trap of "all 7-side post hoppers are the same." These are definitely NOT USRA twins or copies. The easist spotting features are the karge pressed steel end sills and the lack of channel end posts. Note that these cars have three end posts.

These are pre-WWI cars built to what Bob Karig calls the "Early Common Design". These are typically 7-side post hoppers, 30 ft IL, top chord 10 ft above the rails, and were acquired by many coal roads including B&O and NYC. This prototype is a glaring hole in model availabilty in all scales. (I'd pull additional details, but I'm turning in for the night. Hopefully Bob or someone else can fill in the details tonight.)

Ben Hom





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mike Hauk asked:
"I was wondering if anyone can identify the types of hoppers in thse
photos:

SNY Marsh Hill yard
<http://www.black-swan-images.com/photos/839687621_YrSTc-L.jpg>

SNY Marsh Hill yard 2
<http://www.black-swan-images.com/photos/839689166_ZWjW7-L.jpg>

SNY Hopper
<http://www.black-swan-images.com/photos/i-GPNMGLs/0/XL/i-GPNMGLs-XL.jpg>

I can't tell if they are a USRA type, or related to another
manufacturer such as Pressed Steel."

Do not fall into the common trap of "all 7-side post hoppers are the same." These are definitely NOT USRA twins or copies. The easist spotting features are the karge pressed steel end sills and the lack of channel end posts. Note that these cars have three end posts.

These are pre-WWI cars built to what Bob Karig calls the "Early Common Design". These are typically 7-side post hoppers, 30 ft IL, top chord 10 ft above the rails, and were acquired by many coal roads including B&O and NYC. This prototype is a glaring hole in model availabilty in all scales. (I'd pull additional details, but I'm turning in for the night. Hopefully Bob or someone else can fill in the details tonight.)


Ben Hom