In one of Wayner's oft-maligned "Freight Car Pictorial" books there is a ACF builder's photo of SHPX 3457 which appears to be a match for the car in question. Built date appears to be 2-61 so it might be a car of the future. The caption says it was built to carry "Sealdbins" each with 10,000 pounds of plastic pellets.


Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon

After another look, I have to agree that the car in question doesn't match
the photos of the rebuilt C of NJ 52' gons. However, I still think this car
was originally designed to transport Seal Bins based on the rounded raised
ends. The C of NJ rebuilt gons carried 7 rubber bins. Per the January 1969
ORER, the OTDX corporation operated 99 of the 52' container cars and 48 of
the 75' gons which carried 10 Seal Bins.



There is no reference in the ORER to any shorter container cars of this
type, which this gon appears to be based on the rounded ends and middle
panels. Absent of any identification information, it appears to be a
shortened ex-container car that is being used to transport coal.





The most knowledgeable person on the Seal Bin cars is probably Craig
Bossler.



Larry Sexton

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
Richard Hendrickson
Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2012 1:03 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Fwd: Freight Car Identification (was Stanchions)





On Sep 2, 2012, at 9:43 AM, Larry Sexton wrote:

I am fairly certain that the second car was a conversion of one of the
Central of NJ 52' war emergency gons originally built with wood sides.
Sometime after WWII some of the gons received steel sides and were
converted
to hauling Seal Bins....

I know absolutely zero about seal bins, but I'm pretty sure the car
in question wasn't originally a war emergency mill gondola. The
framing is all wrong, and the WE gons had fishbelly side framing
which was an inherent part of the car structure. It it was, in fact,
a rebuild, then it appears that little of the original car was used
except perhaps the center sills, bolsters, and trucks.

Richard Hendrickson

On Sep 2, 2012, at 9:43 AM, Larry Sexton wrote:

I am fairly certain that the second car was a conversion of one of the
Central of NJ 52' war emergency gons originally built with wood sides.
Sometime after WWII some of the gons received steel sides and were
converted
to hauling Seal Bins....

I know absolutely zero about seal bins, but I'm pretty sure the car
in question wasn't originally a war emergency mill gondola. The
framing is all wrong, and the WE gons had fishbelly side framing
which was an inherent part of the car structure. It it was, in fact,
a rebuild, then it appears that little of the original car was used
except perhaps the center sills, bolsters, and trucks.

Richard Hendrickson

Aaron,
I lack a photo of the end of a G25B, but I can direct you to three of
company drawing numbers that may be available via the PRRT&HS website's
microfilm collection. They are:
A429018 (General arrangement G25B)
D443179 & D443478 (End arrangement, fixed ends made from drop end)
I have numbers for a couple other details of the car also, but
unfortunately none of them address the brake issue directly. If you are
interested contact me off list.
Rich Burg

David,



I am fairly certain that the second car was a conversion of one of the
Central of NJ 52' war emergency gons originally built with wood sides.
Sometime after WWII some of the gons received steel sides and were converted
to hauling Seal Bins. Seal Bins were fabric and steel cable reinforced
rubber bags shaped similar to a net float(as opposed to a fishing float)
with a discharge valve at one end and a lifting lug at the other. The
reinforcing cables were attached to the lifting lug.



They were designed to carry plastic pellets used in plastic molding from the
manufacturer to the plastic molder. They could be thought of as the
precursor to bean bags. The ones transported in these gons were about 9'00"
diameter and about 10-12' high. The gon would deliver the full Seal Bins to
the plastic molder where they would be hoisted from the gon using an
overhead hoist and trolley system which would allow them to be moved into
the plant along the trolley track and them dumped into a hopper at the
process equipment. Based on feedback from 20 years ago, I believe some of
them lasted well into the early 70s in their original design use.



Some of those who served in Nam may remember seeing choppers air-lifting
similar ones carrying gas or diesel fuel in-country. The military also had
smaller ones that were approximately 1/3-1/4 as large. Hope this helps.



Larry Sexton



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
davidcofga@...
Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2012 11:47 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Fwd: Freight Car Identification (was Stanchions)






At the suggestion of one of the OSM members, I'm forwarding this to the
STMFC group.

The first car appears to be a covered gon used in hauling coil steel, but
what about the second one?

Thank you.

David Payne
Georgia



____________________________________
From: DavidCofGa@... <mailto:DavidCofGa%40aol.com>
To: OSCALEMODELERS@... <mailto:OSCALEMODELERS%40yahoogroups.com>

CC: rad@... <mailto:rad%40nshore.org>
Sent: 9/1/2012 5:42:54 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time
Subj: Freight Car Identification (was Stanchions)

Folks,

Looking past the stanchions of much discussion, can anyone identify the
first two cars in this cut; particularly the second one ...

_RailPictures.Net Photo: CRN 10 Carolina & Northwestern Alco RS-3 at
Greenville, South Carolina by Martin K OToole_
(http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=56465)

Thank you.

David Payne
Georgia

At the suggestion of one of the OSM members, I'm forwarding this to the
STMFC group.

The first car appears to be a covered gon used in hauling coil steel, but
what about the second one?

Thank you.

David Payne
Georgia



____________________________________
From: DavidCofGa@...
To: OSCALEMODELERS@...
CC: rad@...
Sent: 9/1/2012 5:42:54 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time
Subj: Freight Car Identification (was Stanchions)



Folks,

Looking past the stanchions of much discussion, can anyone identify the
first two cars in this cut; particularly the second one ...

_RailPictures.Net Photo: CRN 10 Carolina & Northwestern Alco RS-3 at
Greenville, South Carolina by Martin K OToole_
(http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=56465)

Thank you.

David Payne
Georgia

This is a Rock Island promo film of the late 1940s and it features many good run by shots. Take a look at the freight train around 9:52 in the film and near 14:00 there is a carbon black covered hopper followed by two Warren tank cars.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfhV3cjdKDo&feature=relmfu

gary laakso
south of Mike Brock

On Sep 1, 2012, at 8:35 PM, benjaminfrank_hom wrote:

Mike DeSensi asked:
"I have a few questions about an Atlas N-scale USRA Steel Rebuilt box
with a Missouri Pacific Blue/Grey/Yellow scheme that I came across
just recently. Link to Atlas web site photo here

<http://www.atlasrr.com/Images/NFreightCars/nsteelrebuilt/0408/
45835_TQ.jpg> .

How accurate is this model car vs. the prototype?"

One more thing - on top of everything else, Atlas botched the paint
on this model - the ends should be gray.

(For the MoPac guys - the prototype photo of MP 46894 referenced in
my last post shows blue carlines on the roof - did these cars receive
both gray and blue roofs? The running board in the photo is gray.)
Ben Hom

Mike,
MoPac's 1950s steel rebuilds were not from USRA box cars, and the Atlas
MP model is totally bogus. Most of the 40' steel rebuilds came from
single-sheathed Howe-truss box cars. Some originated as 40' SS auto
cars. Because the steel rebuilds originated from a number of different
groups of cars, there were different ends (none of which were 5/5/5
Murphy). These MoPac cars tended to be various renditions of later
Murphy ends (1924-1926) or Dreadnaught ends used from 1927-1930.

The MP painting/lettering diagram for both 36' and 40' Eagle
Merchandise Service cars specify they received gray ends and unpainted
galvanized roofs (new diagonal panel roofs were used) with gray paint
applied to the roof seam caps. Color photos of these cars have been
seen with blue ends. This followed MoPac's general practice of painting
ends of their passenger cars blue starting circa 1951.

The Morning Sun MP color guide book on page 35 shows MP 46960 and 4126?
(last digit cut off) both with blue ends. The 46960 is in relatively
fresh paint with DES. 10-51 reweigh stencils. The photo was taken
1-30-54, so my guess is the car could have been repainted without
having been more recently reweighed.

Joe Collias photographed on black & white film 36' car MP 121491 from a
bridge in July 1951. The car shows DES. 12-50 for the date the car
completed its rebuilding and was weighed. The overhead view clearly
shows the roof and running boards were unpainted. Very difficult to
discern are the gray seam caps that blend into the galvanized roof
sheets.

Another question asked when these cars were first and last used. The
first use was in late 1950 to early 1951 when 500 36' steel rebuilds
were completed at MoPac's DeSoto, Missouri shops. The earliest 40' cars
were in late 1951.

The rebuilding program continued until 1954 or 1955. Eagle Merchandise
Service box cars continued through the period of this discussion group
(1960) and a little beyond.

Regarding accurate model paint colors for the Eagle Merchandise Service
box cars, there is Badger Modelflex Eagle blue and gray (#169, #171).
More recently Eagle gray, blue, and yellow are now offered by Tru-Color
Paint (TCP-121, 122, 123).

In addition to my article in Railway Prototype Cyclopedia Vol. 14 on
MoPac's steel rebuild box cars, an article by Bill Herbert was
published in the Summer 2012 edition of The Eagle (www.mopac.org) on
modeling 40' MP steel rebuilds using Sunshine kits (XM general service
box cars in freight car red). Stay tuned for the new release (very
soon) for another of Bill's modeling articles along with prototype
photos of 40' Eagle Merchandise Service cars using Sunshine kits. Hope
this helps answer your questions.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins

Charles Hostetler wrote:
"This is just my personal opinion - not expert in any way, but to me
these fancy multicolor schemes suggest some sort of special LCL or
merchandise service, and they seem sort of out of place with their
box car red compatriots."

...WHICH WAS THE WHOLE POINT! While not all of these colorful cars were specifically equipped for LCL service (the vast majority of LCL moved in ordinary boxcars), they were advertising various LCL or other expedited service, and the fancy schemes were meant to be eyecatching (and nowhere near as common as modelers believe).


Ben Hom

--- In STMFC@..., "gi_combat" <mike@...> wrote:

I'm really interested in this car mostly because Box Car Red is putting
me to sleep.
Thanks in advance for any and all help!
Best,Mike DeSensiPittsburgh, PA

Mike,

In addition to Ben's comments on the technical accuracy of these models, I'd suggest Volume 14 of the Railway Prototype Cyclopedia, the first article by Ed Hawkins which is still available from the publisher:

http://www.rpcycpub.com/v14.html

On pages 36 and 37 there are 4 color photos, and three of them are in the Eagle Merchandise scheme. I'd guess that two of them have gray ends and one has blue ends. I'd also guess that one of them (MP46894) has a grey running board and another (MP16267) has a non-gray running board.


This is just my personal opinion - not expert in any way, but to me these fancy multicolor schemes suggest some sort of special LCL or merchandise service, and they seem sort of out of place with their box car red compatriots. If I wanted to break up a sea of box car red I might consider a solid green (e.g. TP&W) or yellow (e.g. MWR) scheme as a change of pace. And there's a lot you can do with shades of red and weathering. I've posted a photo here:

http://cnwmodeling.blogspot.com/2012/09/too-much-box-car-red.html

that has 7 box cars, all in red and no two alike, and one in green. This is sort of the look I'm trying to achieve, but I'm modeling main line freight in October of 1957 and everyone's mileage will vary. And anyway that MP scheme is pretty cool :)

Regards,

Charles Hostetler

I had always assumed that the poling cars were gone from the PRR by WWII only to find photos of them in use, in yards such as Enola, well into the 1950s!

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL
________________________________________
From: STMFC@... [STMFC@...] on behalf of soolinehistory [destorzek@...]
Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2012 9:27 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Poling Pockets

From: "Bruce F. Smith" <smithbf@...>

In an effort to deal with at least one of these, the PRR as well as several others including the Reading, actually created "poling cars", with poles hinged to the car sideframe.

--- In STMFC@..., "Scott H. Haycock " <shhaycock@...> wrote:

I seem to recall another dangerous practice where cars on adjacent tracks were 'towed' using chains. Can anyone comment on this?
Scott Haycock

The poling cars Bruce speaks of were built for use in specially designed yards that had a second track parallel to the ladder on which to run them. In the days of link and pin couplers, there was no good way to cut a car off on the fly... kicking cars as we know it couldn't be easily done. The poling yard was an attempt to increase yard throughput by allowing the switchman to make the cuts in a standing string of cars, the switch engine would with the poling car would run along next to them and deliver the cuts to the proper tracks. When the use of knuckle couplers became universal, there was really no advantage to the poling yard, and they were phased out.

The chains and push poles carried on the local freight locomotives had a different purpose. The were occasionally used to pull a car out of a facing point spur to save the time of a run-around move, but most often used to clear up the mess left when a drop went bad and the car failed to roll clear, thus trapping the locomotive. Even after push poles were no longer provided the need remained, which is why one occasionally sees a crew poling with a makeshift pole.

Most railroads had in their safety rules a prohibition against using anything but an "approved" pole for poling. These were straight grained hardwood, fitted with a steel band around each end to prevent splitting. W@hen the railroad removed the approved poles from the locomotives, there was no longer any way to pole a car without violating the carriers rules.

If the cable on a car puller can be considered a chain, the the practice of chaining cars continues to this day.

Dennis



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links



http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Mike DeSensi asked:
"I have a few questions about an Atlas N-scale USRA Steel Rebuilt box
with a Missouri Pacific Blue/Grey/Yellow scheme that I came across
just recently. Link to Atlas web site photo here
<http://www.atlasrr.com/Images/NFreightCars/nsteelrebuilt/0408/45835_TQ.jpg> .

How accurate is this model car vs. the prototype?"

One more thing - on top of everything else, Atlas botched the paint on this model - the ends should be gray.

(For the MoPac guys - the prototype photo of MP 46894 referenced in my last post shows blue carlines on the roof - did these cars receive both gray and blue roofs? The running board in the photo is gray.)


Ben Hom

I'd like to answer my own question or rather ask for confirmation of what I think to be the correct answer.

The ARA Cast Sideframe truck of the 1930's has been mislabeled by the model industry as the Bettendorf truck. Accurail makes a reasonable version.

Would I be correct?

Mark Stamm

Sent from my mobile device

On Sep 1, 2012, at 1:10 PM, "Mark at Euphoriatt" <mark@...> wrote:

Who makes an ARA Cast Sideframe truck in HO Scale?

TIA

Mark Stamm

<mailto:mark@...> mark@...

Modeling the Mighty Pennsy in 1949

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mike DeSensi asked:
"I have a few questions about an Atlas N-scale USRA Steel Rebuilt box
with a Missouri Pacific Blue/Grey/Yellow scheme that I came across
just recently. Link to Atlas web site photo here
<http://www.atlasrr.com/Images/NFreightCars/nsteelrebuilt/0408/45835_TQ.jpg> .

How accurate is this model car vs. the prototype?"

It sucks. Originally offered in S scale by S Helper Service, Atlas
copied the model and offers it in N, O, and HO scales.
Purportedly "rebuilt USRA boxcars", these models are hermaphodites
that do not model any specific prototypes. (In fact, it's one of the
few models out there that I wish the tooling was damaged beyond
repair and a computer virus destroys all of the electronic files.
FWIW, it's closest to ACL, CWC, and SL-SF prototypes, and needs modifications to even match these cars.)

For the prototype in question, this model has incorrect ends (5/5/5
Murphy model; 7/8 inverse Murphy prototype 7/8), roof (Murphy XLA
model; diagonal panel prototype), and doors (a unique "short" postwar
Youngstown door), and is too tall for the prototype (9 ft IH model; 8
ft 6 in prototype). This model also fails to capture two keys
features of the prototype - the relief side sill and join between the
original ends and new sides of the rebuilt car is much too shallow.
Here's the Sunshine Models HO scale model flyer for this prototype
for quick reference:
http://www.sunshinekits.com/sunimages/sun39b.pdf

Prototype photo from the pay side of the RPI website:
http://railroad.union.rpi.edu/images/6/66/XM-rebuilt-MP-46894-1951.jpg


"When did this paint scheme appear/disappear on the MoPac?"

Introduced c. 1950 with these and other rebuilt boxcars. I'll leave
it to Ed Hawkins and the other MoPac experts to provide details.


"Does anyone know if there are decals for this? And if there are,
what colors would be appropriate."

Yes - Microscale 60-1378, Missouri Pacific (MP)-Texas & Pacific (T&P)-
Express Boxcars and Stripes.
http://www.microscale.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=60-1378&Category_Code=MP&Product_Count=28

I'll leave it to the MoPac experts for best paint matches.

Final recomnedations - you're kind of stuck in N scale. If you want
an accurate model, you'll need to do a major kitbash as no other
models are available. The Atlas "USRA rebuilt boxcar" is a terrible
model, but it's the only game in town if you don't want to go through the effort of doing this kitbash.


Ben Hom

Group,

I'm excited about the opportunity to present some illustrative applications of the 1% Carload Waybill Study at Prototype Rails 2013 in January. To help me get started, and perhaps to generate some interest in the topic and enthusiasm for Coca Beach, I've prepared an abstract for this presentation. Those interested can find it at:

http://cnwmodeling.blogspot.com/2012/09/abstract-for-prototype-rails-2013.html


Please note that in accordance with Mike's wishes, the material contained in this presentation will not be published in any other media until a year after the presentation. However, I do plan on presenting as much of the original data from the study as I can in my blog, much as I did with the data from Ullman's commodity flow study.

Regards,

Charles Hostetler

Hi everyone,Long time lurker on the list. Please keep up the great work,
I enjoy reading this list immensely.
I have a few questions about an Atlas N-scale USRA Steel Rebuilt box
with a Missouri Pacific Blue/Grey/Yellow scheme that I came across just
recently. Link to Atlas web site photo here
<http://www.atlasrr.com/Images/NFreightCars/nsteelrebuilt/0408/45835_TQ.\;
jpg> .
How accurate is this model car vs. the prototype? When did this paint
scheme appear/disappear on the MoPac? (I sure hope it's sometime that
fits the criteria of this list! Ha ha!)Does anyone know if there are
decals for this? And if there are, what colors would be appropriate. ( I
use Polly Scale).
I'm really interested in this car mostly because Box Car Red is putting
me to sleep.
Thanks in advance for any and all help!
Best,Mike DeSensiPittsburgh, PA

I recently ordered a G25b kit from Westerfield, received it in less than two weeks, and now have a few questions.

In the PDS, it states that in 1951, the PRR started converting the cars to a fixed brake wheel. One car had been so converted back around 1940, but it also had the drop doors reversed before permanently attaching them as well. This is how the model body comes, with the retainer valve opposite the end with the indentation where the brake wheel was.

Has this been verified?

Do any pictures exist of the 1951 rebuilt car ends?

I checked the archives, but couldn't find any topic discussing the G25b ends.

Aaron

Thanks Bill!!!



Al Kresse

Al

Soon after my initial inquiry I posted a message with this link. It has a very good history of these and several drawings.

http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/stevec/MLS-Topic-Article/RollingStock/Caboose/USRA-StdCabooseCar-1919.pdf

Bill Welch

Does anyone have a drawing of the prototype caboose design that they could share?   I presume it had a steel underframe and wooden uppers?



Al Kresse