Date   

Re: discussions at Cocoa Beach

al_brown03
 

Train-Miniature made one.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

--- In STMFC@..., "armprem2" <armprem2@...> wrote:

Silver Streak produced a Hart convertible Gon back in the fifties.I also believe that AHM or another company produced it in plastic somewhat later.Armand Premo
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Hendrickson
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2011 12:18 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] re: discussions at Cocoa Beach



On Dec 17, 2011, at 7:42 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

> Richard
>
> That's kinda why I was asking this illustrious group to consider,
> can a car like this with many design variations be made "Chad Boas"
> style or is this type of car just too complex for that?
>
>
Any of the various Rodger-Hart designs would be very complicated to
model in resin. And, as John C. LaRue has pointed out, there were
not only many variants of the basic Rodger-Hart principle (and John
has better resources than any of us to document that), the cars were
used almost exclusively in company service and did not go off-line in
interchange, which leaves many modelers with no reason to have models
of them.

Richard Hendrickson







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Magazine needed

Rossiter, Mark W <Mark.Rossiter@...>
 

How about the TRAIN LIFE website:



http://www.trainlife.com/magazines/model-train-magazine-contents/441/rai
lmodel-journal-may-1995



- - Mark


Re: discussions at Cocoa Beach

Armand Premo
 

Silver Streak produced a Hart convertible Gon back in the fifties.I also believe that AHM or another company produced it in plastic somewhat later.Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Hendrickson
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2011 12:18 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] re: discussions at Cocoa Beach



On Dec 17, 2011, at 7:42 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

> Richard
>
> That's kinda why I was asking this illustrious group to consider,
> can a car like this with many design variations be made "Chad Boas"
> style or is this type of car just too complex for that?
>
>
Any of the various Rodger-Hart designs would be very complicated to
model in resin. And, as John C. LaRue has pointed out, there were
not only many variants of the basic Rodger-Hart principle (and John
has better resources than any of us to document that), the cars were
used almost exclusively in company service and did not go off-line in
interchange, which leaves many modelers with no reason to have models
of them.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: discussions at Cocoa Beach

Steve and Barb Hile
 

Did you guys see John Riddell's review of the ProtoWest Models Hart
Convertible Ballast Car in the December 2011 RMC? I think that this is the
one that Jack Burgess was chasing information about a while back. ProtoWest
is at



http://www.protowestmodels.com/ProtoWest_HO_Kits.htm



The website does not yet price the model.



Steve Hile



_____

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
Richard Hendrickson
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 11:19 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] re: discussions at Cocoa Beach





On Dec 17, 2011, at 7:42 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

Richard

That's kinda why I was asking this illustrious group to consider,
can a car like this with many design variations be made "Chad Boas"
style or is this type of car just too complex for that?

Any of the various Rodger-Hart designs would be very complicated to
model in resin. And, as John C. LaRue has pointed out, there were
not only many variants of the basic Rodger-Hart principle (and John
has better resources than any of us to document that), the cars were
used almost exclusively in company service and did not go off-line in
interchange, which leaves many modelers with no reason to have models
of them.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: discussions at Cocoa Beach

Tim O'Connor
 

Ya know I've made the same argument about Santa Fe steam locos.
Since they rarely went off line, and were used exclusively in
company service, there just isn't reason to model them! :-)

Tim O'

Any of the various Rodger-Hart designs would be very complicated to
model in resin. And, as John C. LaRue has pointed out, there were
not only many variants of the basic Rodger-Hart principle (and John
has better resources than any of us to document that), the cars were
used almost exclusively in company service and did not go off-line in
interchange, which leaves many modelers with no reason to have models
of them.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: ART Royal Packing reefer

Tim O'Connor
 

Jerry

I'm trying to wrap my mind around this -- since the IM reefer has
separate ends and roof, what is the point of "laser trimming" ??
Trying to salvage the side sill tabs? :-)

Tim O'Connor

It's pretty closer <g> to Intermountain's ART as it is an ART car leased to various packers BUT they had shorter doors typical of meat reefers. I did the decals for Stan who selles the proper car with custom sides for a laser trimmed Intermountain body. The doors on the Walthers car are also too tall.

Jerry Glow


Re: Freight Car Surprise in Boston Harbor

tyesac@...
 

Also, I noticed that the freight cars on both car floats appear to have either early Janey couples, or a very late example of link & pin draft gear.

Tom Casey




Guys,

what a great photo!

Do my eyes deceive me or are the freight cars on those floats all leaning toward the center?

Thanks,

Larry Hanlon.
Bend, OR

--- In STMFC@..., "up4479" <up4479@...> wrote:

I agree with Peter. The New Haven used car floats to directly trans-load between freight cars and ships thus avoiding drayage. Here's more of the story.
<http://tinyurl.com/7pgsygb>
The link takes you to page 89. Scroll back for more info.
The BPL sight can be a source of interesting freight car photos but one must go deeper than a simple search.
Steve Solombrino

--- In STMFC@..., "Peter Ness" <prness@> wrote:

The New Haven Railroad had float docks and float operations in Boston Harbor in the early 1900's located at the South Boston Freight Terminal. Operations were suspended by about the 1930's. I'm not entirely familiar with photos from this period, but I hazard a guess (ready to be corrected) the view is looking out towards the harbor with the Customs House to the rear of the photographer. Boston had many photogenic and impressive rail operations to offer at one time; for those interested, there was a mighty coal elevator operated by the B&A/NYC in East Boston and of course the B&M and NH lift bridges from North and South Stations respectively.






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: ART Royal Packing reefer

Tim O'Connor
 

Jim

No kidding? "It" being the whole car, decals, or what?

Tim O'

Stan Rydarowicz sells it.
Jim
STMFC folks -- does anyone make decals for this Royal Packing
ART paint scheme? This car looks like it is pretty close to the
Walthers General American horiz-seam steel reefer.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/370569533650

Tim O'Connor


Re: discussions at Cocoa Beach

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Dec 17, 2011, at 7:42 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

Richard

That's kinda why I was asking this illustrious group to consider,
can a car like this with many design variations be made "Chad Boas"
style or is this type of car just too complex for that?

Any of the various Rodger-Hart designs would be very complicated to
model in resin. And, as John C. LaRue has pointed out, there were
not only many variants of the basic Rodger-Hart principle (and John
has better resources than any of us to document that), the cars were
used almost exclusively in company service and did not go off-line in
interchange, which leaves many modelers with no reason to have models
of them.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Freight Car Surprise in Boston Harbor

llamsus <llamsus@...>
 

The small liner leaving the harbour is almost certainly the Dominion Atlantic Railway steamer Prince George (or possibly the Prince Arthur) commencing it's return trip to Yarmouth Nova Scotia.

Brian Small


Re: MORE discussions at Cocoa Beach (rapid prototype)

Brian Carlson
 

Tim, you know Stan does similar cars right?

http://www.sunshinekits.com/stanpage.html



Brian J. Carlson, P.E.

Cheektowaga, NY



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Tim
O'Connor
Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2011 12:00 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] MORE discussions at Cocoa Beach (rapid prototype)






http://www.ebay.com/itm/370569533780

Ok, another -general- issue for rapid/minimal resin -- Cars like this
one with appeal only to late 50's and 1960's modelers. If I could get
the car sides, I could find parts to do the rest... Love these doors!
PFE had reefers with doors like this too, but no horizontal seam. And
of course, 40ft and 50ft mechanical reefers -- most had conventional
roofs and ends, but sides were often unique to one owner. I don't think
I'll ever see a PFE R-40-30 kit... :-(

Tim O'Connor


Re: ART Royal Packing reefer

jerryglow2
 

It's pretty closer <g> to Intermountain's ART as it is an ART car leased to various packers BUT they had shorter doors typical of meat reefers. I did the decals for Stan who selles the proper car with custom sides for a laser trimmed Intermountain body. The doors on the Walthers car are also too tall.

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


STMFC folks -- does anyone make decals for this Royal Packing
ART paint scheme? This car looks like it is pretty close to the
Walthers General American horiz-seam steel reefer.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/370569533650

Tim O'Connor


MORE discussions at Cocoa Beach (rapid prototype)

Tim O'Connor
 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/370569533780

Ok, another -general- issue for rapid/minimal resin -- Cars like this
one with appeal only to late 50's and 1960's modelers. If I could get
the car sides, I could find parts to do the rest... Love these doors!
PFE had reefers with doors like this too, but no horizontal seam. And
of course, 40ft and 50ft mechanical reefers -- most had conventional
roofs and ends, but sides were often unique to one owner. I don't think
I'll ever see a PFE R-40-30 kit... :-(

Tim O'Connor


Re: ART Royal Packing reefer

Jim Hayes
 

Stan Rydarowicz sells it.

Jim


On Sat, Dec 17, 2011 at 8:33 PM, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>wrote:

**



STMFC folks -- does anyone make decals for this Royal Packing
ART paint scheme? This car looks like it is pretty close to the
Walthers General American horiz-seam steel reefer.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/370569533650

Tim O'Connor



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Freight Car Surprise in Boston Harbor

Schuyler Larrabee
 

You are correct, Don. The tools we have today to investigate this are
astounding. I used Google Earth, and while the "lens" used by GE is
different than the lens used in taking the Shorpy photo, I was able to
establish that the "eye level" of the photograph is about 70' above sea
level, and that it is just north of the present-day New England Aquarium, at
the shoreward end of the Aquarium building, so it must have been from a
rooftop. Or perhaps a ladder set up on the rooftop of the "Metropolitan S.
S. Co." in the foreground.



And yes, the Customs House tower was likely beat for height by the Hancock
building, but not by New England T&T. Take a look at GE in three-d view and
you'll see that the Hancock is taller, by maybe 100', but the NET&T is
definitely shorter.



Years ago you could just walk into the Customs House Tower and take the
elevator to the outdoor walkway around the top, above the clock and just
below the sloping roof. I don't think you can do that now, since it's been
turned into expensive residential condos. It was a great break at
lunchtime, and you could still see some steam-era passenger and freight cars
over in the Fort Point area, the fan pier. (Whew, gotta get list-relevant
somehow!)



Schuyler



--- In STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , "Schuyler
Larrabee" <schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote:

Steve's link took me, at least, to the cover of the book. There are photos
on the page facing 88, and a few pages later, in the appendix. Click
through a few pages from the front, and you get to the TofC, which has
hotlinks to get to later chapters in the book, so you don't have to page
through the entire thing.



I think this photo was taken FROM the Customs House, which was the tallest
building in Boston for years, until (I think) the Prudential building was
built in the back bay in the 60s.
I, too, wondered if the photo was taken from the Custom House tower but
believe the angle is wrong and that it was taken for a rooftop along Atlntic
Ave. But the first building taller than the Custom House tower in Boston was
not the Prudential. It was either the old New England Telephone & Telegraph
Building or the original John Hancock Buillding with the light in its tower
to tell what the weather forecast was by changing its color. I was told as a
youngster that airline pilots approaching Boston form NYC could see the
beacon on the John Hancock Building by teh time they reached Hartford, CT.

Cordially, Don Valentine








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Re: discussions at Cocoa Beach

John C. La Rue, Jr. <MOFWCABOOSE@...>
 

There was a great deal of variation in such things as car side heights, underframe details, etc. These are the wooden cars I am talking about. I do not think there was such a thing as a "generic" Hart convertible gondola. I have a small catalog dated 1906 describing Hart convertible cars made by the Rodger Ballast Car Company and at least five distinctly different cars are shown, plus a drop-bottom boxcar and a drop-bottom stock car (I suspect that not many of these two types were ever sold). So yes, doing a typical Rodger-Hart ballast car would be rather difficult. If someone had a complete set of catalogs and the means to learn all the details of their production, it might be possible to find one design that was used on several different railroads.

An important selling point was that these cars could be used in general freight service as well as maintenance of way, and ORER rosters reflect this, but it is a nice question how many actually went off-line in general service. Most of the few I have pictures of are definitely being used in company service.

John C. La Rue, Jr.
Bonita Springs, FL

-----Original Message-----
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:42 pm
Subject: [STMFC] re: discussions at Cocoa Beach





Richard

That's kinda why I was asking this illustrious group to consider,
can a car like this with many design variations be made "Chad Boas"
style or is this type of car just too complex for that?

Tim O'

My book on the Santa Fe open top cars shows four quite different
designs in less than a decade, and there were several other versions
the Santa Fe didn't have. I know the version I'd like to see modeled
(Santa Fe Ga-Q and Ga-S), but it would be of no use to modelers of
many other RRs. So how is a manufacturer supposed to decide which
one to do?

Richard Hendrickson


ART Royal Packing reefer

Tim O'Connor
 

STMFC folks -- does anyone make decals for this Royal Packing
ART paint scheme? This car looks like it is pretty close to the
Walthers General American horiz-seam steel reefer.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/370569533650

Tim O'Connor


Re: Magazine needed

Mark Stamm
 

It is a great article. Does anyone know of a source of decals?
Specifically I'm looking for Eastern roads during the late 40's to early
50's like the NYC, B&O Reading, D&H.



Mark Stamm
PRRT&HS # 8462



mark@...



From: oandle [mailto:oandle@...]
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2011 9:34 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Magazine needed





Hi Guys!
Looking for the May 1995 issue of Railmodel Journal, this issue has Dr.
Hendrickson's article on upgrading Accurail's USRA hoppers. Does anyone have
or know of a place where I can pick up a copy for a reasonable price. I
tried Railpub and it was going to cost me $11 total.
Please contact me off list. Thanks.
Bob Weston


Re: discussions at Cocoa Beach

Tim O'Connor
 

Richard

That's kinda why I was asking this illustrious group to consider,
can a car like this with many design variations be made "Chad Boas"
style or is this type of car just too complex for that?

Tim O'

My book on the Santa Fe open top cars shows four quite different
designs in less than a decade, and there were several other versions
the Santa Fe didn't have. I know the version I'd like to see modeled
(Santa Fe Ga-Q and Ga-S), but it would be of no use to modelers of
many other RRs. So how is a manufacturer supposed to decide which
one to do?

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Roaring Rails

Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

Exactly. People just don't seem to realize that the movie is about the
*story*, not the scenery. I see similar discussions on the military
modeling groups whenever a war movie comes out. Everybody thinks their
little arcane corner of life should be presented with absolute accuracy,
regardless of cost, effort, or effect on the film.



If you want an idea of what these threads look like to normal people,
imagine reading . . .



"Did you see "The Red Caper"? It was OK, but, my gosh, don't the producers
know anything? It was supposed to be set in 1949, but the lead character
was wearing a Bulova "Cubic" watch - which wasn't released until 1956!! I
mean, it would be so easy to just ask someone who knows something about
watches! Instead they just show whatever stock jewelry they have in the
prop trailer - It's like they don't even care."



KL



Tim O'Connor wrote:
I recall an episode of Star Trek where they "time travelled" to
Detroit and suddenly in one scene you can see mountains in the
distance! Ya just
gotta love Hollywood. I don't think anyone in the biz has ever taken
a geography class.
Not true at all, Tim. In fact, there is typically a whole crew
of "continuity" and "scene dressing" people, who are forever deciding
what is important enough to do correctly and what isn't. That we train
enthusiasts often find a train discrepancy just means it was regarded
as not important, and you can be sure that an awful lot of the public
would agree. And besides, it provides entertainment for us. <g>

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