Date   

Re: Railway Prototype Cyclopedia Vol. 23

Storey Lindsay
 

Ed,

My copy arrived safely today, 25 October.

Thanks,

Storey Lindsay
Celje, Slovenia

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Ed
Hawkins
Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2011 16:05
To: STMFC Discussion Group
Subject: [STMFC] Railway Prototype Cyclopedia Vol. 23

STMFC members,
The RP CYC Publishing Company is pleased to announce the imminent
release of RAILWAY PROTOTYPE CYCLOPEDIA, Volume 23, scheduled for
distribution beginning in the third week of October 2011. Volume 23
contains much useful prototype information: 113 pages comprising three
in-depth articles on the following subjects:

Mid-Century Composite 40'-6" Box Cars. The 41-page article by Pat Wider
describes the last single- and double-sheathed wood box cars built new
from 1937-1943 for the CP, GN, GM&N, and NP railroads. One might call
these box cars "late wood-sheathed anachronisms" considering that box
cars with steel sheathing had become the de facto standard on America's
railroads by the mid-1930s.

Bethlehem-Design 52'-6" 70-ton Drop-End Gondola Cars. This 37-page
article by Ed Hawkins describes the design of nearly 9,500
riveted-steel cars built from 1937 to 1957 for six railroads including
B&O, CRP/CNJ, LV, RDG, WAB, and WM.

Non-Pennsylvania Railroad Wagon-Top Box and Automobile Cars. The
35-page article by Pat Wider describes the wagon-top box and auto cars
that were built new for the DT&I, N&W, and Virginian. Railroads that
received the cars second-hand such as the AD&N, D&H, D&M, MRS, NP,
OP&E, P&PU, TA&G, TS-E, and Wabash are also covered.

We appreciate your support and extend to you a pre-publication offer
for Volume 23. The normal retail price for Volume 22 is $29.95.
However, your cost is only $24.00 (postpaid to U.S. address) - a
20-percent discount. For the offer to be valid, your payment must be
postmarked by October 14, 2011.

Missouri residents must add $1.90 state & local sales tax ($25.90 total
amount). For addresses outside the U.S., please add $6.50 (Canada) or
$13.00 (Europe and Australia).

To take advantage of this one-time, pre-publication offer for RP CYC
Volume 23, please mail a check or money order by October 14, 2011 to:
RP CYC Publishing Co.
P.O. Box 451
Chesterfield, MO 63006-0451

Internet users: Please visit our web site at http://www.rpcycpub.com
A flyer with summary information in PDF format can be downloaded at:
http://www.rpcycpub.com/v23flyer.pdf

Please contact Ed off-list at rpcyc@... if you have any
difficulties downloading the PDF or require additional information. We
thank you!
Regards,
Ed Hawkins & Pat Wider

Lisle RPM Attendees: If you are going to attend the RPM meet at Lisle,
Illinois, this fall, please circle: <DELIVER AT LISLE>
and we will bring your copy to the meet.






------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: Other Lisle highlights

Tim O'Connor
 

Cyril --

It was disclosed this week on the Espee list that the SPH&TS is currently
involved in tooling for an SP F-70-10 flat car, as well as additional versions
of bulkheads for the existing Red Caboose F-70-7 flat car. (One early bulkhead
has already been released.) Many SP F-70-10's were converted to TOFC service
by 1955 and the society will be doing a TOFC version with a newly tooled 22'
trailer. And in addition, we were told there are plans to produce one of
the Harriman flat cars -- no doubt they'll choose a version used by SP and
UP. All of the above is injected molded styrene, sold as kits or RTR. I think
the manufacturing will be done by Intermountain.

F.M. Models imported a brass model of an F-50-x flat car (I'm not sure which
one). It was based on a Pacific Electric flat that was equipped with three
water bottles lettered for "Arrowhead Water".

You are right, many SP fans are excited about these models! :-)

Tim O'Connor

Have you thought about doing one of the early Harriman F-50-1,2,3 or 4 series?
A 40' 10" steel flat car with fishbelly sideframe (Harriman), 12 stake pockets,
and a wood nailing strip between the stake pockets. Used in revenue service from
about 1904-1908 until the late 1950's on both the SP and UP in large numbers.
They remained in service and MW service for a long time. A model of this car has
never been done in HO scale before as far as I know. See the SP freight car book
Vol 3 on flat cars for photos, diagrams etc. I think I have measurements of one.
Many were delivered with wood side boards. Many had beet racks and some had low
wood sides and were even moved to gondola numbering.

F-50-1 1000 for SP.,200 for UP
F-50-2 2100 for SP, 850 for UP
F-50-3 700+ for SP
F-50-4 2100 for SP etc

I think there would be a large market for these from SP modelers.

Cyril Durrenberger


Re: Other Lisle highlights

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Cyril Durrenberger wrote:
Have you thought about doing one of the early Harriman F-50-1,2,3 or 4 series? A 40' 10" steel flat car with fishbelly sideframe (Harriman), 12 stake pockets, and a wood nailing strip between the stake pockets. Used in revenue service from about 1904-1908 until the late 1950's on both the SP and UP in large numbers. They remained in service and MW service for a long time.
Not true for revenue service, for the fishbelly cars (F-50-1, -2, -3), at least not on SP (few survivors past 1950). MORE true for the following cars of F-50-4, which had straight side sills, as did a whole bunch of successor classes on both SP and UP. I model a few decades later than Cyril and naturally see the world from a different angle, but for me, the straight-sill cars would be FAR more useful. As for MW (and yes, they did survive there), I don't really need a handful, at least on my layout, but as with many things, YMMV.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: FOTFC shirts

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
Tony, is it my imagination or have you not done the most obvious choice of color yet: Freight Car Red! :-)
That was what I originally intended for the first shirt, the box car (the entire history is posted on my blog). But reefers are yellow and tank cars are black. The gondola had a couple recommendations to do "a nice looking shirt" so we went with dark red. Maybe some day there will be a BCR shirt. Probably when we do the GS gondola. <g>

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Weathering clinic handout

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
Tony, you guys left out (1) grit blasters and (2) "silver" Sharpie.
Grit blasting is definitely in the presentation, just not in the handout. Tony


Re: Lisle RPM

Tim O'Connor
 

In August 2001 I stayed for 3 nights at the Chicago Hilton on the
waterfront with my whole family for $50 a night... I wonder if the
organizers of the meet just assume that a downtown venue would be
more expensive but maybe it wouldn't be? I just thought of this
because the Hilton had a great lounge and a very good restaurant.
Also the 5th floor has a giant swimming pool, sauna and massage... :-)

Tim O'Connor

Just a quick "Thank You" to Joe and all involved in putting on the Lisle RPM
meet (formerly.... and soon to be again... known as "Naperville").
I thought the hotel rooms were quite nice, although the toilets sounded
like a freight train going into emergency. The facility was adequate
overall, but kind of a rat maze. I heard there were 300+ people there but
there wasn't any central gathering point like there is at the lobby of the
old Naperville hotel.

Ever notice how few night owls there are anymore? I remember the glorious
90s when we'd close down the bar at Naperville and there would still be 4
tables and 20-25 people. I think I must be the last night owl... always
have been. Now I just go to my room and get on the laptop.

Andy


Re: Other Lisle highlights

Cyril Durrenberger
 

Have you thought about doing one of the early Harriman F-50-1,2,3 or 4 series?  A 40' 10" steel flat car with fishbelly sideframe (Harriman), 12 stake pockets, and a wood nailing strip between the stake pockets.  Used in revenue service from about 1904-1908 until the late 1950's on both the SP and UP in large numbers.  They remained in service and MW service for a long time.  A model of this car has never been done in HO scale before as far as I know.  See the SP freight car bookVol 3 on flat cars for photos, diagrams etc.  I think I have measurements of one.  Many were delivered with wood side boards.  Many had beet racks and some had low wood sides and were even moved to gondola numbering.

F-50-1   1000 for SP.,200 for UP
F-50-2   2100 for SP, 850 for UP
F-50-3   700+ for SP
F-50-4   2100 for SP etc

I think there would be a large market for these from SP modelers.

Cyril Durrenberger

--- On Mon, 10/24/11, cepropst@q.com <cepropst@q.com> wrote:

From: cepropst@q.com <cepropst@q.com>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Other Lisle highlights
To: STMFC@...
Date: Monday, October 24, 2011, 8:24 PM
















 









To expand on Bill's post.



Chad is open to doing more flat cars. Please be able to supply enough info for him to build a master with your request. He needs about 30 orders to make a model worthwhile.



Clark Propst



--- In STMFC@..., Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:

Chad Boas did a "Land Office" business with his several new flat cars.
Bill Welch


























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Prototype for MDC/Athearn 41 foot gondola

Tim O'Connor
 

C&O -- there were multiple orders w/ variations. I think
they were built beginning in the 1930's. Try to find a copy
of the book "Freight Car Equipment, 1937" published by the
C&OHS.

Tim O'Connor

At 10/24/2011 03:01 PM Monday, you wrote:
Can someone please provide some background on this model? Here is what I am looking for specifically:

Builder
Years built
dimensional data (especially inside length and CUFT)
approximately what CAPY, LD LMT, and LT WT would be

I am getting custom decals made to letter some for my dad's private roadname, and would like to make them as plausible as possible.

Thanks,

Matthew J. Moellendorf
Sturgeon Bay, WI


Re: Weathering clinic handout

Tim O'Connor
 

Tony, you guys left out (1) grit blasters and (2) "silver" Sharpie.

Also various grades of sandpaper (lately I use 3M soft sanding blocks).
These are great for going over flat car decks -after- they have been
weathered.

And if you can find it, REAL rust. I have maybe 8 oz of rust flakes
and powder collected from a scrap pile, from large fingernail sizes
down to fine pigment. Great for dirty gondola interiors.

Tim O'

At 10/24/2011 03:28 PM Monday, you wrote:
At the just-concluded Lisle meeting, Richard Hendrickson and I did a
joint clinic on weathering of freight cars. We ran out of handouts, so
I have posted the handout document via GoogleDocs on my blog. Here is
the link.

http://modelingthesp.blogspot.com/2011/10/weathering-clinic-handout.html

Tony Thompson


Re: Lisle RPM

Andy Harman
 

At 02:26 PM 10/24/2011 -0400, you wrote:
Just a quick "Thank You" to Joe and all involved in putting on the Lisle RPM
meet (formerly.... and soon to be again... known as "Naperville").
I thought the hotel rooms were quite nice, although the toilets sounded like a freight train going into emergency. The facility was adequate overall, but kind of a rat maze. I heard there were 300+ people there but there wasn't any central gathering point like there is at the lobby of the old Naperville hotel.

Ever notice how few night owls there are anymore? I remember the glorious 90s when we'd close down the bar at Naperville and there would still be 4 tables and 20-25 people. I think I must be the last night owl... always have been. Now I just go to my room and get on the laptop.

Andy


E: Walthers 54 ft. GSC flat car Car No. 469980

Tim O'Connor
 

Elden, stringers? I have three photos of F41 decks, there are no
stringers visible. (Seems like that would always be true, since stringers
support the deck.)

Tim O'

Tim you are right. I have one partly built, and chose the Walthers since it
looks more like a cast frame than the Tichy, and also the lack of cast-on
board makes it easier, esp to install the cross members and stringers that
show on the deck surface.

If you want a shot of the deck so you can see the diffs, you may have to look
at the PRR flat car book...

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Tim
O'Connor
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 9:32 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] RE: Walthers 54 ft. GSC flat car Car No. 469980



Elden

That's true, but if you were going to model one, you would start with the
Walthers flat car model, because it's far more like the F41's than anything
else out there and modifications are much easier thanks to the separate deck.

Tim O'Connor

The Walters "Commonwealth" flat is not an F41, F41A or F41B. All of those had
a cast frame with different framing aft the bolsters, shallower end sills and
side sills up to the bolster, and other differences.
Elden Gatwood


Re: FOTFC shirts

Tim O'Connor
 

Tony, is it my imagination or have you not done the most obvious
choice of color yet: Freight Car Red! :-)

Tim O'




I think I reserved one. What color(s) are they? Large, black if that's an
option . . . Let me know the $.
SGL


Re: FOTFC shirts

Tim O'Connor
 

If the weight of your stash exceeds your body weight, then you
qualify for the "big" stash distinction. Otherwise, you are just
a piker. :-)

Tim O'Connor

gary laakso wrote:
Are you considering doing a version captioned: "friends of the
stash of resin car kit boxes"?
Interesting thought, Gary. <g> But then would we have to define
what is a "big" stash of kits? Would a person owning a single unbuilt
resin kit qualify? This opens a can of worms I'm not sure I want to
look into.

Tony Thompson


Re: Other Lisle highlights

Clark Propst
 

To expand on Bill's post.

Chad is open to doing more flat cars. Please be able to supply enough info for him to build a master with your request. He needs about 30 orders to make a model worthwhile.

Clark Propst

--- In STMFC@..., Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:

Chad Boas did a "Land Office" business with his several new flat cars.

Bill Welch


Re: FOTFC shirts

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Wull . . . .



I think I reserved one. What color(s) are they? Large, black if that's an
option . . .



Let me know the $.

SGL



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
Anthony Thompson
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 4:12 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] FOTFC shirts





Just an update for those interested. We sold around half the
shirts at Lisle, and will take the remainder to Cocoa Beach in
January. At this point, so as to have a good selection at Cocoa Beach,
I'd prefer not to sell shirts by mail in the interim. If you have
already reserved a shirt, it will be mailed. Otherwise, I want to wait
until after Cocoa Beach before filling any more mail orders.
Anyone not aware of what these are, and the history behind them,
please see my blog post:

http://modelingthesp.blogspot.com/2011/10/friends-of-freight-car.html

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
<mailto:thompson%40signaturepress.com>
Publishers of books on railroad history








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GN Freight Car Roster

gn3397 <heninger@...>
 

Hello Group,
To everyone who attended my first RPM presentation on Friday night, thanks for attending. I wish I would have had a second time slot, but such is life. I did want to point out for everyone else that as part of my presentation, I prepared a comprehensive freight car roster for the GN, using the January 1940, January 1945, and January 1950 ORERs.

This roster has now been posted to the Steam Freight Cars website as a downloadable PDF. The links are on the homepage. The roster has been formatted to print out on a standard 8.5x11 inch piece of paper. Each sheet has the number series, AAR car type, and car description as the first three columns. If you print it out, the roster will be four sheets across, and thirteen sheets down, for a total of 72 pages. I will leave it up to you to collate and bind it, if so desired.

In addition to a word by word transcription of the ORER dimensional data, and the number of cars in each series in 1940, 1945, and 1950; I have used various GN diagram books in my collection to fill in columns with the build dates, builders and lot numbers, if I have them, and number of cars built for each series. Also, I transcribed each of the endnotes in each edition of the ORER, which are separately downloadable PDF documents.

Also, as best as I can, I list the trucks, doors, roofs, ends, brake type, running board type, brake step type, and brake wheel type for each series of cars in the built and if applicable, rebuilt and/or modernized configurations.

Finally, I list the GN AFEs applicable to each of the cars, and a HO scale kit or model for each car if one exists.

This roster was assembled entirely from primary source data such as ORERs, GN equipment lists and diagram books, and photos in my collection (I did reference Ted Culotta's table for the various series of modified 1925 ARA DS cars in his Essential Freight Cars article, but corroborated it with my data. Not surprisingly, I found no inconsistencies). If you have any additions or corrections, I welcome them and will incorporate them into future revisions of this roster. However, please be prepared to cite a primary source for your information.

Anyway, I hope some of you will find this information useful. I would like to thank my good friend Rob Adams for formatting the roster into something easily downloadable and useful, as well as uploading it to the web. Also, thanks to Tom Olsen for copying the January 1950 GN ORER pages for me, and thanks to Allen Stanley of Railroad Data Exchange for sending me PDF copies of the GN diagram books. Finally, thanks to Jim Kinkaid for allowing Mr. Stanley to scan the GN diagram books in his collection.

Regards,
Robert D. Heninger
Iowa City, Iowa


Re: B&O M-53 was Re: B&O, GM&N

SUVCWORR@...
 

It was applied to both but was the first scheme used on the red cars according to the B&O Historical Society info.

Rich Orr

-----Original Message-----
From: steel77086 <steel77086@...>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Mon, Oct 24, 2011 7:28 pm
Subject: Re: B&O M-53 was Re: [STMFC] B&O, GM&N


Rich,

I'm a bit confused. I've just received a couple of the Fox cars with the 13
Great States herald in brown paint. Do you mean to say that the 13 Great
States herald was ONLY
applied to the "red" cars and NOT the brown?? I thought the Fox Valley
cars were
all correct.

Vince Altiere


In a message dated 10/22/2011 12:53:50 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
SUVCWORR@... writes:


The "red" paint began with the 13 great states lettering scheme in 1946.
These cars are in the second run scheduled for release in the Spring of
2012.

Rich Orr



-----Original Message-----
From: Don <riverman_vt@...>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Sat, Oct 22, 2011 12:07 pm
Subject: B&O M-53 was Re: [STMFC] B&O, GM&N



--- In STMFC@..., SUVCWORR@... wrote:
Regarding the B&O M-53 -- the brown color is correct for the paint schemes
for
hich it is used Pre WWII and during the war. The red color was adopted
post
WII and is being used by FVM with the appropriate P/L schemes.

The brown cars did run into the 50's until being repainted.

Equally important for those of us modeling the mid to late 1940's
pproximately when was the brighter red first used? I, too, have noted the
ifference and it can add variety to a freight train but I do not wish to
use it
nd than find it did not come into general use until after 1948.
Thanks for any assistance, Don Valentine

------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
Individual Email | Traditional
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links










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Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: B&O M-53 was Re: B&O, GM&N

steel77086@...
 

Rich,

I'm a bit confused. I've just received a couple of the Fox cars with the 13
Great States herald in brown paint. Do you mean to say that the 13 Great
States herald was ONLY
applied to the "red" cars and NOT the brown?? I thought the Fox Valley
cars were
all correct.

Vince Altiere

In a message dated 10/22/2011 12:53:50 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
SUVCWORR@... writes:


The "red" paint began with the 13 great states lettering scheme in 1946.
These cars are in the second run scheduled for release in the Spring of
2012.

Rich Orr



-----Original Message-----
From: Don <riverman_vt@...>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Sat, Oct 22, 2011 12:07 pm
Subject: B&O M-53 was Re: [STMFC] B&O, GM&N



--- In STMFC@..., SUVCWORR@... wrote:
Regarding the B&O M-53 -- the brown color is correct for the paint schemes
for
hich it is used Pre WWII and during the war. The red color was adopted
post
WII and is being used by FVM with the appropriate P/L schemes.

The brown cars did run into the 50's until being repainted.

Equally important for those of us modeling the mid to late 1940's
pproximately when was the brighter red first used? I, too, have noted the
ifference and it can add variety to a freight train but I do not wish to
use it
nd than find it did not come into general use until after 1948.
Thanks for any assistance, Don Valentine

------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
Individual Email | Traditional
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: Weathering clinic handout

Jim Betz
 

Hi,

Tony - thanks for making this available!

All - on my computer (Win7) I had to download and open the
file using Adobe to get it to print correctly.
- Jim


Need help with covered hopper discharge types

ltctilley <ltctilley@...>
 

Hi STMFC
I was researching covered hoppers and discovered several types of discharge systems I was not familiar with. Can anyone provide information or photos of an Enterprise "short track" discharge, Keystone "long track" discharge, or Morrison-Knudsen discharge? If similar variations exist with pneumatic discharge systems exist, I would be grateful for info on them as well.

Keep up the great info flow. I read this list daily and enjoy it every time. Your wealth of knowledge is boundless.
thanks
Chris Tilley
outside the US for now...
Pittsboro, NC

90801 - 90820 of 194676