|
Re: Tank cars -vs- Pipelines & Trucks
Cyril Durrenberger
For example for the Humble, Texas oil field. For the fist year there was a massive amount of crude shipped by tank car until they built the pipeline and then the tank car shipping disappeared as quick as it started. This was in 1904 and 1905.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Cyril Durrenberger
--- On Thu, 3/8/12, Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:
From: Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> Subject: [STMFC] Re: Tank cars -vs- Pipelines & Trucks To: STMFC@... Date: Thursday, March 8, 2012, 5:08 PM Â Jim Betz wrote: Way back when - say in the 30's or so - the majority of the petroleum products being shipped long distances used tank cars. Today it appears that the majority of petroleum products are piped or moved (usually short distances) in trucks. Jim, as far back as the turn of the 20th century, pipelines were built from producing fields to refineries as soon as at all possible, because of the sheer volumes of oil. Very few oil fields of any size continued shipping via tank car for very long. Thus any tank car loads of crude oil would only have occurred for short periods in very specific areas. But I think you are asking about refined products. AFAIK there were no long-distance pipelines for refined products before the World War II pipelines described already by Bruce Smith. It was easier to use coastwise tankers (when there were no hostile submarines!), and even today a lot of refined product moves all over the world, including coastwise in the U.S., by tanker. It's a cheap shipping method. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
|
|
|
Re: Tank cars -vs- Pipelines & Trucks
Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Jim Betz wrote:
Way back when - say in the 30's or so - the majority of the petroleum products being shipped long distances used tank cars. Today it appears that the majority of petroleum products are piped or moved (usually short distances) in trucks.Jim, as far back as the turn of the 20th century, pipelines were built from producing fields to refineries as soon as at all possible, because of the sheer volumes of oil. Very few oil fields of any size continued shipping via tank car for very long. Thus any tank car loads of crude oil would only have occurred for short periods in very specific areas. But I think you are asking about refined products. AFAIK there were no long-distance pipelines for refined products before the World War II pipelines described already by Bruce Smith. It was easier to use coastwise tankers (when there were no hostile submarines!), and even today a lot of refined product moves all over the world, including coastwise in the U.S., by tanker. It's a cheap shipping method. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history |
|
|
|
Re: Lehigh Valley boxcar colors (UNCLASSIFIED)
vincent altiere
Elden,
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Thank you very much. Vince Altiere
In a message dated 3/8/2012 4:09:38 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
elden.j.gatwood@... writes: Classification: UNCLASSIFIED Caveats: NONE Vince; FWIW, I talked to Bill about some of these cars at one time, and this was one that had asphaltum applied to the roof with potentially no paint applied on top, hence the black color. I have seen LV (and PRR and other) cars from this era with some overspray on the edges of the roof, but clearly black panels and even r/b. You may want to consider "weathering" the asphaltum by lightening it some. I have used Burnt Umber artists soil washes and then overspray of Grimy Black to represent it, with pretty good results. The overspray part is your option, but Modelflex Light Tuscan Oxide Red is pretty close. Elden Gatwood -----Original Message----- From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of vincent Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2012 2:55 PM To: STMFC@... Subject: [STMFC] Lehigh Valley boxcar colors To the group, I have Branchline 40 ft. boxcar kit #1606 painted for Lehigh Valley #63025 (new 1950).The sides and ends are bc/frt.car red.However the roof and roofwalk are in the original black plastic. Can anyone tell me if this is correct(needing only a flat finish)?? Or should these pieces be painted the same color as the rest of the car? If so, what brand/shade of paint would you ecommend? Vince Altiere Classification: UNCLASSIFIED Caveats: NONE ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links |
|
|
|
"Unit Trucks"
Schuyler Larrabee
A friend of mine just gave me a copy of an advertisemet in the June '51 TRAINS magazine. This is an advertisement for "UNIT Truck," apparently the name of a company. It shows a photo of ERIE 21031, one of the ERIE's early two-bay covered hoppers. I believe this is the prototype of the beautiful O-scale model done by Gene Diemling and published in Model Railroader some years ago.
The ad says that the ERIE has over 7000 of it's newest cars equipped with these trucks and refers to them as having "Unit hanger-less brake rigging." There is a lot I havent heard of, and that includes "Unit Trucks." What can you guys tell me about them. I will post a scan of the advertisement later tonight or tomorrow night, as I'm not home at the moment. Schuyler |
|
|
|
Looking for photo of 1,958 cu ft LO SHPX 25491-25494
Aley, Jeff A
Hello all,
Does anyone know of a photo of SHPX 25491-25494? I would like to confirm that the lettering placement is the same as shown at http://www.trainlife.com/magazines/pages/89/6356/january-1992-page-22 , except that "Westvaco Wyoming" is replaced with "Lawrence Kansas". Thanks for your help, -Jeff |
|
|
|
Re: Lehigh Valley boxcar colors (UNCLASSIFIED)
Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Caveats: NONE Vince; FWIW, I talked to Bill about some of these cars at one time, and this was one that had asphaltum applied to the roof with potentially no paint applied on top, hence the black color. I have seen LV (and PRR and other) cars from this era with some overspray on the edges of the roof, but clearly black panels and even r/b. You may want to consider "weathering" the asphaltum by lightening it some. I have used Burnt Umber artists soil washes and then overspray of Grimy Black to represent it, with pretty good results. The overspray part is your option, but Modelflex Light Tuscan Oxide Red is pretty close. Elden Gatwood
-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of vincent Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2012 2:55 PM To: STMFC@... Subject: [STMFC] Lehigh Valley boxcar colors To the group, I have Branchline 40 ft. boxcar kit #1606 painted for Lehigh Valley #63025 (new 1950).The sides and ends are bc/frt.car red.However the roof and roofwalk are in the original black plastic. Can anyone tell me if this is correct(needing only a flat finish)?? Or should these pieces be painted the same color as the rest of the car? If so, what brand/shade of paint would you ecommend? Vince Altiere Classification: UNCLASSIFIED Caveats: NONE |
|
|
|
Re: B&O Wagon Top Covered Hopper Trucks
Jim Mischke
In general, B&O often supplied its own truck sideframe casting patterns to the manufacturers.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Nobody makes such B&O trucks for models. No one would know what to make. A lot more research is needed. We have memos, parts lists, an early diagram book (pre-integrated castings) and one drawing, all disembodied with nothing to connect the dots. Do your best with what you see in the photos. Myself, I have a stash of Accurail Bettendorfs, if anything for their correct journal box size and generic good looks.
--- In STMFC@..., "nvrr49" <nvrr49@...> wrote:
|
|
|
|
items for sale
Al and Patricia Westerfield <westerfield@...>
With the business sold we’re downsizing. Several prototype items are too large for the new house: PRR cast iron cross buck; PRR baggage car brake wheel, chain and support ( probably identical to XL box car). If interested contact me off list at westerfield@.... – Al Westerfield
|
|
|
|
Re: Tank cars -vs- Pipelines & Trucks
Tim,
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
You are off by a decade or so on the pipelines. The major pipeline to supply northern and northeastern refineries with crude were the "Big Inch" and "Little Inch" pipelines built during WWII. Prior to that time, the vast majority of crude headed to the northeast went by water. As WWII started (prior to direct US involvement) many of the tankers being used in this service were diverted to help Britain, precipitating an oil supply crisis even before Dec 7, 1941. The entry of the US into the war and subsequent rampage of German U-boats off the eastern seaboard, led to both the "pipeline on rails" which required the reactivation of tens of thousands of mothballed tank cars, and the construction of the pipelines. The Big Inch was finished to Illinois first resulting in a shift in tank car traffic to the northeast from the south and southwest to originating points in the midwest. Regards Bruce Bruce F. Smith Auburn, AL https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield." __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0
On Mar 8, 2012, at 1:36 PM, <timboconnor@...<mailto:timboconnor@...>>
<timboconnor@...<mailto:timboconnor@...>> wrote: I think by the 1930's crude oil was being moved mostly by pipelines, barges or coastal ships, which is why there was a glut of plain 103 tank cars available at the start of World War II to replace the loss of coastal shipping until new pipelines could be built. Tim O' ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Betz" <jimbetz@...<mailto:jimbetz@...>> To: STMFC@...<mailto:STMFC@...> Sent: Thursday, March 8, 2012 11:21:53 AM Subject: [STMFC] Tank cars -vs- Pipelines & Trucks Hi, Way back when - say in the 30's or so - the majority of the petroleum products being shipped long distances used tank cars. Today it appears that the majority of petroleum products are piped or moved (usually short distances) in trucks. I'm interested in learning about the 'evolution' of the use of tank cars in the STMFC era. Can someone recommend a good book or website that focuses on the shipping methods for petroleum products? - Jim ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links |
|
|
|
Lehigh Valley boxcar colors
vincent altiere
To the group,
I have Branchline 40 ft. boxcar kit #1606 painted for Lehigh Valley #63025 (new 1950).The sides and ends are bc/frt.car red.However the roof and roofwalk are in the original black plastic. Can anyone tell me if this is correct(needing only a flat finish)?? Or should these pieces be painted the same color as the rest of the car? If so, what brand/shade of paint would you ecommend? Vince Altiere |
|
|
|
Re: Tank cars -vs- Pipelines & Trucks
Steve SANDIFER
In the southern Kansas area I am modeling, records show a lot of loads of
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
pipe being brought in during the late 40s to build pipelines (a source of house track revenue). Nearly every town had at least one bulk oil dealer, and some as many as 5 during the same period of time, all rail served. ______________________________________________ J. Stephen (Steve) Sandifer mailto:steve.sandifer@... Home: 12027 Mulholland Drive, Meadows Place, TX 77477, 281-568-9918 Office: Southwest Central Church of Christ, 4011 W. Bellfort, Houston, TX 77025, 713-667-9417 From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of timboconnor@... Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2012 1:36 PM To: STMFC@... Subject: Re: [STMFC] Tank cars -vs- Pipelines & Trucks Actually the total ton-miles produced by pipelines in the US is about the same as total railroad ton-miles... But pipelines are NOT included in the totals when railroads count "market share" -- if they were, railroad market share would be cut in half. I think by the 1930's crude oil was being moved mostly by pipelines, barges or coastal ships, which is why there was a glut of plain 103 tank cars available at the start of World War II to replace the loss of coastal shipping until new pipelines could be built. Tim O'
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Betz" <jimbetz@... <mailto:jimbetz%40jimbetz.com> > To: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, March 8, 2012 11:21:53 AM Subject: [STMFC] Tank cars -vs- Pipelines & Trucks Hi, Way back when - say in the 30's or so - the majority of the petroleum products being shipped long distances used tank cars. Today it appears that the majority of petroleum products are piped or moved (usually short distances) in trucks. I'm interested in learning about the 'evolution' of the use of tank cars in the STMFC era. Can someone recommend a good book or website that focuses on the shipping methods for petroleum products? - Jim |
|
|
|
Re: Tank cars -vs- Pipelines & Trucks
Actually the total ton-miles produced by pipelines in the US is about the same as
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
total railroad ton-miles... But pipelines are NOT included in the totals when railroads count "market share" -- if they were, railroad market share would be cut in half. I think by the 1930's crude oil was being moved mostly by pipelines, barges or coastal ships, which is why there was a glut of plain 103 tank cars available at the start of World War II to replace the loss of coastal shipping until new pipelines could be built. Tim O'
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Betz" <jimbetz@...> To: STMFC@... Sent: Thursday, March 8, 2012 11:21:53 AM Subject: [STMFC] Tank cars -vs- Pipelines & Trucks Hi, Way back when - say in the 30's or so - the majority of the petroleum products being shipped long distances used tank cars. Today it appears that the majority of petroleum products are piped or moved (usually short distances) in trucks. I'm interested in learning about the 'evolution' of the use of tank cars in the STMFC era. Can someone recommend a good book or website that focuses on the shipping methods for petroleum products? - Jim |
|
|
|
B&O Wagon Top Covered Hopper Trucks
nvrr49 <nvrr49@...>
Which trucks would be correct for B&O Wagon Top Hopper in the late 40's? I have getting ready to start and F&C kit, and want to get the trucks before I start.
Thanks, Kent in KC nvrr49.blogspot.com |
|
|
|
Re: Self-Adhering Masking Material that can be Laser Cut
John H <sprinthag@...>
yes, they use knife type cutters. I sure wouldn't want be around anywhere someone was trying to cut (melt) vinyl with a laser.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
John Hagen
--- In STMFC@..., "Aley, Jeff A" <Jeff.A.Aley@...> wrote:
|
|
|
|
Re: Self-Adhering Masking Material that can be Laser Cut
Aley, Jeff A
Note that vinyl is specifically NOT recommended for most LASER cutters, due to the corrosive nature of the fumes produced. Apparently, vinyl cutters use a different kind of machinery (knives??)
Regards, -Jeff From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of jerryglow@... Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2012 9:36 AM To: STMFC@... Subject: [STMFC] Re: Self-Adhering Masking Material that can be Laser Cut Vinyl. As a custom painter in SoCal, I had lots of orders for SP bloody nose units and got tired of hand cutting masks. I drew it and had a friend with a vinyl cutter make me a bunch. I also made some to paint signs on brick buildings. Jerry Glow --- In STMFC@...<mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>, Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:
|
|
|
|
Re: Self-Adhering Masking Material that can be Laser Cut
jerryglow2
Vinyl. As a custom painter in SoCal, I had lots of orders for SP bloody nose units and got tired of hand cutting masks. I drew it and had a friend with a vinyl cutter make me a bunch. I also made some to paint signs on brick buildings.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Jerry Glow
--- In STMFC@..., Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:
|
|
|
|
Insulated Plug-Door Box Cars Build Date?
tom houle <thoule@...>
I need help with an O scale Atlas/Roco insulated plug-door box car from the 1970's. The car side lettering says it was built in 1937.
Would this car be correct for mid-1950's period? What midwestern roads used this car? Thanks, Tom Houle |
|
|
|
Tank cars -vs- Pipelines & Trucks
Hi,
Way back when - say in the 30's or so - the majority of the petroleum products being shipped long distances used tank cars. Today it appears that the majority of petroleum products are piped or moved (usually short distances) in trucks. I'm interested in learning about the 'evolution' of the use of tank cars in the STMFC era. Can someone recommend a good book or website that focuses on the shipping methods for petroleum products? - Jim |
|
|
|
Self-Adhering Masking Material that can be Laser Cut
Bill Welch
As those of you that were at the "Boutique Marketing of Kits & Parts"
discussion at Cocoa Beach may remember, I am slowly putting together components to create a little kit to make it easy to model one of the 10K Semet Solvay Type 27 tank cars using the InterMountain kit. The cars had a silver dome. In addition to a resin deck, photoetched railings/corner posts/support brackets and decals, I would really like to include a Laser Cut painting mask to make it easy to paint the riveted dome collar that is part of the tank body. There is a photo of the prototype of Volume 3 of the RR Prototype CYC. The Czech Republic company "Eduard" includes an extensive line of Laser Cut self-adhering painting masks for military vehicles and aircraft, so I know this can be done. Does anyone on this list have any information on who makes a raw material that could be used to create such masks. Please no questions about the "when?" and "how much?" of the aforementioned kit. When I know, you will know. Thank you! Bill Welch 2225 Nursery Road; #20-104 Clearwater, FL 33764-7622 727.470.9930 fgexbill@... |
|
|
|
Re: An early URTC ART Connection? and more
Bill Welch
Don't give up Jerry. Through the years both Fruit Growers and Western Fruit Annual Reports contained 3-5 pages of very interesting news and statistics and after about 1948 included photos. The last pages were reserved for the financial info. Still hoping to find BRE's Annual Reports.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Bill Welch
--- In STMFC@..., asychis@... wrote:
|
|
|