1. main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
  2. Messages
   Date   
Re: Accurail DDR 40’ Boxcar Prototype.

O Fenton Wells
 

Thanks for taking the time to go through that.  Much appreciated.  It reminds me of when we were developing new products at work.  All the starts and stops.
Fenton

On Tue, Jan 4, 2022 at 2:30 PM Dennis Storzek <dennis@...> wrote:
I'm coming in on this discussion very late... my excuse is a day of "grandpa duty" watching a six year old.

Others have covered the prototype question, so here's a history of the tool. It was built about 1979 or '80, several years before Bill McKean became disastrously involved with Front Range. The cavity work was designed by a professional modelmaker named Jim Allen, IIRC. I have no idea what he used for prototype data; remember, in that era it was hard to get a complete data package, and easy to accidentally mix attributes from two or more different lots of prototype cars. The body inserts were designed to be run in the Train Miniature of Illinois master mold base, while the floor and details were in their own mold. At the time the new kit was priced at $6.95, while the Athearn boxcar was still selling for $3.50. At the time I was interested in the car as it had the the fifties era attributes not available elsewhere, and I wrote Bill suggesting he do alternate single door sides. He wrote back that he was looking for a new toolmaker and he would look into it. In 1985 Walthers purchased the TM of I tooling, and Bill could never come to an agreement with them to either run bodies for him or purchase the body inserts, so the kit went off the market.

By the time I became involved with Accurate Finishing (later Accurail) in 1986, Bill had reached an agreement with the owner of Front Range Products to develop and run tooling for him. Their first joint project was a 40' PS-1, which made use of the 40' boxcar floor tool. However, the double door body would not fit any Front Range mold bases, so that model remained off the market.

Meanwhile, Accurate Finishing had become interested in developing its own line of kits, so we purchased the double door body inserts. I knew that there was the basis for a generic fifties era single door boxcar there for only the cost of new side inserts, so we paid to have a mold base created. Since Front Range was using the floor mold for the McKean PS-1, we also had to build a tool for the floor. We released our version of the double door car under the Accurail Name in 1989 or early 1990, and the single door boxcar about a year later. Both have been in continuous production ever since.

Dennis Storzek
Accurail, Inc.



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...
Re: Accurail DDR 40’ Boxcar Prototype.

Dennis Storzek <dennis@...>
 

I'm coming in on this discussion very late... my excuse is a day of "grandpa duty" watching a six year old.

Others have covered the prototype question, so here's a history of the tool. It was built about 1979 or '80, several years before Bill McKean became disastrously involved with Front Range. The cavity work was designed by a professional modelmaker named Jim Allen, IIRC. I have no idea what he used for prototype data; remember, in that era it was hard to get a complete data package, and easy to accidentally mix attributes from two or more different lots of prototype cars. The body inserts were designed to be run in the Train Miniature of Illinois master mold base, while the floor and details were in their own mold. At the time the new kit was priced at $6.95, while the Athearn boxcar was still selling for $3.50. At the time I was interested in the car as it had the the fifties era attributes not available elsewhere, and I wrote Bill suggesting he do alternate single door sides. He wrote back that he was looking for a new toolmaker and he would look into it. In 1985 Walthers purchased the TM of I tooling, and Bill could never come to an agreement with them to either run bodies for him or purchase the body inserts, so the kit went off the market.

By the time I became involved with Accurate Finishing (later Accurail) in 1986, Bill had reached an agreement with the owner of Front Range Products to develop and run tooling for him. Their first joint project was a 40' PS-1, which made use of the 40' boxcar floor tool. However, the double door body would not fit any Front Range mold bases, so that model remained off the market.

Meanwhile, Accurate Finishing had become interested in developing its own line of kits, so we purchased the double door body inserts. I knew that there was the basis for a generic fifties era single door boxcar there for only the cost of new side inserts, so we paid to have a mold base created. Since Front Range was using the floor mold for the McKean PS-1, we also had to build a tool for the floor. We released our version of the double door car under the Accurail Name in 1989 or early 1990, and the single door boxcar about a year later. Both have been in continuous production ever since.

Dennis Storzek
Accurail, Inc.

What color are the trucks on Rock Island DS Boxcars?

Danny Rodriguez
 

I'm in the process of weathering a RI DS boxcar from Rapido and wondering if the trucks should remain black. A search online showed where others modeling transition-era and earlier RI boxcars had some of the trucks in black or boxcar red. I'm modeling circa '53 if it makes a difference.

Thanks,
Danny Rodriguez

Re: Is the second car in this train one of the Reading Hersey Coca Bean Cars?

Tim O'Connor
 


To me the original scan looks like a refrigerator car at such poor photographic resolution that the door disappears.

On 1/4/2022 10:44 AM, William Dale wrote:

Mr. Laakso, the answer is no. These were not convertered till 7/31/41 under the AFE #12699. The cars were converted for the sole purpose of transporting used cocoa bean shells to an online soap manufacturing facility. They remained online, with 12343A still retaining its original trucks till retirement. I’m in the process of modeling this car presently with the release of the SSC trucks
from Zenith Model Works 3D print. They were ultimately retired in 1960, with a few of these cars ending up on the Carrol Park & Western railroad in Bloomsburg PA. For that, we Reading modelers are blessed with good color images of these cars. 

Billy

 

Attachments:

_._,


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: HO code 88 wheels

Ken Adams
 

As the owner of that mistake, I offer my apology. My only defense is to twirl on the excuse that I was a casualty of phonetic spelling in my 1950's primary school instruction.
--
Ken Adams
Still in splendid Shelter In Place solitude, about half way up Walnut Creek
Owner PlasticFreightCarBuilders@groups.io

Re: Plastic / Resin molds

Mike Settle
 

I have had good results with Smooth-On products using 1 or 2 piece molds. They also have some tutorial videos on their web site.

Mike Settle

Re: HO code 88 wheels

charlie9
 

Only if you are figure skating.
Charlie

Re: Is the second car in this train one of the Reading Hersey Coca Bean Cars?

William Dale
 

Mr. Laakso, the answer is no. These were not convertered till 7/31/41 under the AFE #12699. The cars were converted for the sole purpose of transporting used cocoa bean shells to an online soap manufacturing facility. They remained online, with 12343A still retaining its original trucks till retirement. I’m in the process of modeling this car presently with the release of the SSC trucks
from Zenith Model Works 3D print. They were ultimately retired in 1960, with a few of these cars ending up on the Carrol Park & Western railroad in Bloomsburg PA. For that, we Reading modelers are blessed with good color images of these cars. 

Billy

 
Re: [ResinFreightCarBuilders] Steel Shape Catalogs from the 1910s

Eric Hansmann
 

Thanks for the tip, Bob! I've bookmarked that site for future reference.


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN


On 01/03/2022 5:34 PM wahsatch <wahsatch@...> wrote:


For those who model from the 1910s on, here are steel shape catalogs @ AISC. The 1911 Bethlehem catalog is important because they were apparently the only mill to roll WF [wide flange] beams used by Bettendorf.

If RR dwgs give you the size & weight of the piece of steel used, then you can look up the piece & get the shape dimensions & scale them.


Back in Aug 1968, the Metroliner fiasco came to a head with Westinghouse [who I worked for], Budd, & the PRR pointing fingers @ each other - came to a halt! I got transfered to South Bethlehem to help put in the new computer assisted 4 stand structural mill. Wasn't bad working 10 hours 6 days a week; 2 weeks later someone @ Beth said if we got a beam rolled before the end of the year, Beth would get a $40 million tax write off. We went to 7-12s @ my grand pay of $5 an hour. We got the beam rolled 3 days before Christmas - a 250 ft 24 inch I-beam.

Since Beth provided the center beams to Bettendorf, I wonder if Beth cut the triangle out of the ends of the beam & bent the flange or shipped the beams as is..... The Bettendorf flat car in the 1913 Car Builders  and its beam is about 28 ft long for a 40 ft car.

Dick Harley gave me a hand in helping me to determine the Bettendorf 1913 CB flat is the same or almost as the UP F-50-4.

Enjoy the catalogs!

-=- Bob Colquitt
Uncle Pete in 1935


Re: Plastic / Resin molds

Robert Daniels
 

Larry, I think you mean Brick in the Yard's Platsil 73-25: https://www.brickintheyard.com/products/7325u16

I've been using their EasyFlo 60 resin with generally good results but I haven't tried their silicone products. I will try the Platsil based on your recommendation. Thanks!

Rob Daniels
New York, NY
On Monday, January 3, 2022, 02:26:18 PM EST, lrkdbn via groups.io <lrkdbn@...> wrote:


I have had excellent results from Bare Metal Foil's Plat Sil 73-25, and their Easy Flo 60 resin. The resin is a bit soft for thin or stressed parts though,and I am thinking about going to regular Alumilite for these.The rubber is very dependable with excellent shelf life and is 50-50 mix.Have not done 2 part molds yet.The one special technique I use is to paint the rubber over the pattern with a disposable brush and let it sit for a few minutes then pour the rest of the mold.This greatly reduces trouble from air bubbles.On both molds and castings, after pouring the medium, I lay a piece of clear plastic  across the mold then top it with a piece of glass and a weight. This gives a flat back to the mold or casting.and the clear plastic sheet acts as a parting film.
Larry King

Re: 1923 trip on the DT&I.

Robert kirkham
 

Neat!  The shiny 3d metal corporate emblem on the tender at approx. 3:40 in the film is a detail I’ve never seen modelled....   
Rob

On Jan 3, 2022, at 6:56 PM, Charlie Duckworth <omahaduck@...> wrote:

First part of the film is a little dark but it gets better. 
https://catalog.archives.gov/id/92709
--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne.

1923 trip on the DT&I.

Charlie Duckworth
 

First part of the film is a little dark but it gets better. 
https://catalog.archives.gov/id/92709
--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne.

Re: Frisco panel covered hopper

Brad Andonian
 

Ed,

My sincere thanks for the response and full picture.
   Happy new year,

On Monday, January 3, 2022, 6:31 PM, Ed Hawkins <hawk0621@...> wrote:



On Jan 3, 2022, at 4:22 PM, Brad Andonian <brad@...> wrote:

I have an Overland frisco panel covered hopper prepped for paint.   It appears these were painted black; any input would be appreciated!
Also, if someone can discuss their usual loadings as well, it would be great to have that information.

Brad,
From the time the Frisco 30’-6” HM cars were rebuilt from 1937 to well into the 1940s, the panel-side conversions were originally painted black. While I don’t know the exact date of the color change, Frisco hopper cars through at least May 1949 continued to be painted black, while new or repainted hoppers from July 1953 through the remainder of the 1950s were red-oxide.

A Paul Dunn photo made available by Richard Burg shows SL-SF 86831 with 1-54 reweigh stencils & repacked 5-19-54 still in black paint. Col. Chet McCoid shot SL-SF 88587 in black paint on 12/19/51. 

Regarding the loads, through at least the 1/43 ORER, Frisco’s many HM cars were listed as “coal, self-clearing” whether they had been modified with panels or not. By 1947 & in later years through the 1950s, the ORER terminology was “hopper, self-clearing.”

While not real definitive, refer to the following link for some history. About 2/3 the way down the page it refers to locations in 4 states of outbound coal. The same paragraph also mentions various other items that could be hauled in hopper cars.

https://missouriencyclopedia.org/groups-orgs/st-louis-san-francisco-railway-company

Hope this helps. 
Ed Hawkins
Re: Frisco panel covered hopper

Ed Hawkins
 



On Jan 3, 2022, at 4:22 PM, Brad Andonian <brad@...> wrote:

I have an Overland frisco panel covered hopper prepped for paint.   It appears these were painted black; any input would be appreciated!
Also, if someone can discuss their usual loadings as well, it would be great to have that information.

Brad,
From the time the Frisco 30’-6” HM cars were rebuilt from 1937 to well into the 1940s, the panel-side conversions were originally painted black. While I don’t know the exact date of the color change, Frisco hopper cars through at least May 1949 continued to be painted black, while new or repainted hoppers from July 1953 through the remainder of the 1950s were red-oxide.

A Paul Dunn photo made available by Richard Burg shows SL-SF 86831 with 1-54 reweigh stencils & repacked 5-19-54 still in black paint. Col. Chet McCoid shot SL-SF 88587 in black paint on 12/19/51. 

Regarding the loads, through at least the 1/43 ORER, Frisco’s many HM cars were listed as “coal, self-clearing” whether they had been modified with panels or not. By 1947 & in later years through the 1950s, the ORER terminology was “hopper, self-clearing.”

While not real definitive, refer to the following link for some history. About 2/3 the way down the page it refers to locations in 4 states of outbound coal. The same paragraph also mentions various other items that could be hauled in hopper cars.


Hope this helps. 
Ed Hawkins
Re: Accurail DDR 40’ Boxcar Prototype.

O Fenton Wells
 

Jeff if you can make a good copy in plastic there are people who will cast it in resin.
Fenton

On Mon, Jan 3, 2022 at 7:52 PM Jeff Helm <jeff.helm.60@...> wrote:

Thanks all, this confirms what I had understood, that there is no separate 40’ ZU overhanging roof offered as a commercial part.  Given my need for multiples of this to complete some GN projects, is there anyone doing this in resin?  I think I may have or can obtain one Branchline 50’ roof, but not easily half a dozen to sacrifice.

Otherwise, I suppose I am going to need to learn how to resin cast.
--
Cheers

Jeff Helm
The Olympic Peninsula Branch
https://olympicpeninsulabranch.blogspot.com/



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...
Re: Accurail DDR 40’ Boxcar Prototype.

Jeff Helm
 

Thanks all, this confirms what I had understood, that there is no separate 40’ ZU overhanging roof offered as a commercial part.  Given my need for multiples of this to complete some GN projects, is there anyone doing this in resin?  I think I may have or can obtain one Branchline 50’ roof, but not easily half a dozen to sacrifice.

Otherwise, I suppose I am going to need to learn how to resin cast.
--
Cheers

Jeff Helm
The Olympic Peninsula Branch
https://olympicpeninsulabranch.blogspot.com/
Steel Shape Catalogs from the 1910s

wahsatch
 

For those who model from the 1910s on, here are steel shape catalogs @ AISC. The 1911 Bethlehem catalog is important because they were apparently the only mill to roll WF [wide flange] beams used by Bettendorf.
 
If RR dwgs give you the size & weight of the piece of steel used, then you can look up the piece & get the shape dimensions & scale them.
 
 
Back in Aug 1968, the Metroliner fiasco came to a head with Westinghouse [who I worked for], Budd, & the PRR pointing fingers @ each other - came to a halt! I got transfered to South Bethlehem to help put in the new computer assisted 4 stand structural mill. Wasn't bad working 10 hours 6 days a week; 2 weeks later someone @ Beth said if we got a beam rolled before the end of the year, Beth would get a $40 million tax write off. We went to 7-12s @ my grand pay of $5 an hour. We got the beam rolled 3 days before Christmas - a 250 ft 24 inch I-beam.
 
Since Beth provided the center beams to Bettendorf, I wonder if Beth cut the triangle out of the ends of the beam & bent the flange or shipped the beams as is..... The Bettendorf flat car in the 1913 Car Builders  and its beam is about 28 ft long for a 40 ft car.
 
Dick Harley gave me a hand in helping me to determine the Bettendorf 1913 CB flat is the same or almost as the UP F-50-4.
 
Enjoy the catalogs!
 
-=- Bob Colquitt
Uncle Pete in 1935
Accurail DDR 40’ Boxcar Prototype.

Andy Carlson
 

One more option for a 40' diagonal panel over-hanging eave roof is shortening a Branchline 50' roof. Many of us have these roofs as left overs from BL undec 50' box car kits. The overhanging portion of the BL roof seems to be a bit understated in my observations, though it still makes for a nice roof.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

On Monday, January 3, 2022, 03:04:04 PM PST, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:



The Accurail ZU eave roof is a work of art, but sadly for me is not a separate part. For those with the skills
to remove it (and if you don't mind destroying a kit) it's a great roof.


On 1/3/2022 4:16 PM, Richard Remiarz wrote:

Jeff,

 

As Staffan already wrote, he built his model using a shortened Pacific HO roof.  More recently Ted Fandel built a model of these cars using a shortened Accurail 50’ overhanging diagonal panel roof.  This model was featured in the September 2018 GNRHS Modelers’ Pages.

 

Sincerely, Rich Remiarz

 

From: Jeff Helm
 Sent: Monday, January 3, 2022 9:33 AM
 To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
 Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Accurail DDR 40’ Boxcar Prototype.

 

Rich,
What are the options for the overhanging diagonal panel roof?  This seems to be one of those “missing” detail parts, for GN modelers in particular.
--
Cheers

Jeff Helm



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: Accurail DDR 40’ Boxcar Prototype.

Tim O'Connor
 


The Accurail ZU eave roof is a work of art, but sadly for me is not a separate part. For those with the skills
to remove it (and if you don't mind destroying a kit) it's a great roof.


On 1/3/2022 4:16 PM, Richard Remiarz wrote:

Jeff,

 

As Staffan already wrote, he built his model using a shortened Pacific HO roof.  More recently Ted Fandel built a model of these cars using a shortened Accurail 50’ overhanging diagonal panel roof.  This model was featured in the September 2018 GNRHS Modelers’ Pages.

 

Sincerely, Rich Remiarz

 

From: Jeff Helm
 Sent: Monday, January 3, 2022 9:33 AM
 To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
 Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Accurail DDR 40’ Boxcar Prototype.

 

Rich,
What are the options for the overhanging diagonal panel roof?  This seems to be one of those “missing” detail parts, for GN modelers in particular.
--
Cheers

Jeff Helm



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: box car ends and tack boards

Tim O'Connor
 


Here is an end that appears on some ATSF box cars and perhaps others - It's a 4/4 instead of the BAR-3/4 SRE dreadnaught
end that has been done over and over by everyone by now, I think. MOLOCO is doing this car* so he'll have to make this end as
well. Which probably means it could be available as a part next year. :-)

Tim O'Connor

* either the Fe-32 or the Fe-34 ; they use the same end


On 1/3/2022 1:41 PM, Gatwood, Elden J SAD wrote:

Guys;

 

When exactly did the change from short taper to long taper take place?

 

I know from the attached that it took place between the X29B and X29D, which is pre-’55, but there is another question I need to resolve.  When did tack boards get lowered?  Did ends from SREM come with tack boards attached?  I have photos of a PRR X29D with tackboards on ends and door in different locations.  There may have been a “what’s on hand” issue, but I’d like to know.

 

Thanks!

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Monday, January 3, 2022 1:21 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [URL Verdict: Neutral][Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Accurail DDR 40’ Boxcar Prototype.

 


The "tapered ends" appeared at the very end of his production of the kits with separate ladders and grabs,
unfortunately. They are a useful type of end seen on some cars beginning in the mid or late 1950's.



On 1/3/2022 11:58 AM, O Fenton Wells wrote:

Ben according to CB&T sheets they offered different ends and roofs for their boxcars. Please see the attached

Fenton

 

On Mon, Jan 3, 2022 at 11:03 AM Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...> wrote:

Jeff Helm asked:

"What are the options for the overhanging diagonal panel roof?  This seems to be one of those “missing” detail parts, for GN modelers in particular."

 

One option is to shorten one of the Moloco 50 ft roofs; unfortunately, the one with the running board mounting points is currently out of stock.

Attachments:

 


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Attachments:



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

9541 - 9560 of 198818