Date   

Re: Kit with Pratt truss sides

Bruce Smith
 

Bob,

Um, that's not what was said!  What was said was that you swap the right and left parts of ONE SIDE, with respect to the door!  I thought Andy made that clear in his first post and I did so in my reply as well.

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Robert Ellis <bobjel67@...>
Sent: Sunday, February 6, 2022 5:20 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [RealSTMFC] Kit with Pratt truss sides
 
CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn.
Andy: I don't see it, but if you say so, okay.  The sides of a flat kit are identical, and not in any way labeled left or right, but I'm no engineer. Anyway, I think Lester's going to use the '23 ARA, and that's how we got started on this.  Thanks, Bob.

On Sun, Feb 6, 2022, 16:51 Andy Carlson <midcentury@...> wrote:
Robert, think again. Swapping sides changes the relative drop of the diagonals, converting the Howe trusses from compression into Pratt tension-the salient differences between the Pratt and Howe trusses.. No need for flipping sides upside down.
-Andy

On Sunday, February 6, 2022, 10:21:04 AM PST, Robert Ellis <bobjel67@...> wrote:


Andy -- sorry, but no, it won't.  You would have to turn the sides upside down to do that.  At which point, you'd have the side sills at the eaves, and so forth. Bob.

On Thu, Feb 3, 2022, 12:16 Andy Carlson <midcentury@...> wrote:
A simple swap of the left of door side with the right of door side will convert a Howe truss into a Pratt trust (or vice verda). Gets more challenging if the diagonals on the edges of the car sides are different, such as braces.

You did not mention which version of posts; such as Hat-section or Z-bar. Bill Welch told me years ago there was only one Z-bar trussed SS 40' box car with a Pratt design. That solitary class of SS 40' box cars was Great Northern.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

On Thursday, February 3, 2022, 08:33:54 AM PST, Lester Breuer <rforailroad@...> wrote:


After reviewing the new Morning Sun 1950 Freight Car Color Guide, the Minnesota Mining Mfg. Co. car photo on page 104 caught my interest.   A Pratt truss single-sheathed car with Hutchins ends.  I have the Hutchins ends available from Westerfield #4113, however, no kit with a SS boxcar with Prass truss sides.
Does someone know of a kit, resin or plastic, with Pratt truss sides that might work with the Westerfield Hutchins ends?


Converting Howe into Pratt truss- Was "Kit with Pratt truss sides"

Andy Carlson
 

You seem to be thinking I meant swapping the two sides, which as you state are already identical. Reading what I said was "...(S)wap of the LEFT of door side with the Right of door side...." Requires some cutting and glueing

Don Aust (I hope I am remembering his name correctly) did just this method in converting an early 1990s composite wood drop bottom gondola model to make (I think) a more accurate model of an NP gondola. This was printed in a Mainline Modeler. Articles of this type were common in MM, unlike the active online model zine which issue after issue is filled with forgetable content.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

On Sunday, February 6, 2022, 03:20:41 PM PST, Robert Ellis <bobjel67@...> wrote:


Andy: I don't see it, but if you say so, okay.  The sides of a flat kit are identical, and not in any way labeled left or right, but I'm no engineer. Anyway, I think Lester's going to use the '23 ARA, and that's how we got started on this.  Thanks, Bob.

On Sun, Feb 6, 2022, 16:51 Andy Carlson <midcentury@...> wrote:
Robert, think again. Swapping sides changes the relative drop of the diagonals, converting the Howe trusses from compression into Pratt tension-the salient differences between the Pratt and Howe trusses.. No need for flipping sides upside down.
-Andy

On Sunday, February 6, 2022, 10:21:04 AM PST, Robert Ellis <bobjel67@...> wrote:


Andy -- sorry, but no, it won't.  You would have to turn the sides upside down to do that.  At which point, you'd have the side sills at the eaves, and so forth. Bob.

On Thu, Feb 3, 2022, 12:16 Andy Carlson <midcentury@...> wrote:
A simple swap of the left of door side with the right of door side will convert a Howe truss into a Pratt trust (or vice verda). Gets more challenging if the diagonals on the edges of the car sides are different, such as braces.

You did not mention which version of posts; such as Hat-section or Z-bar. Bill Welch told me years ago there was only one Z-bar trussed SS 40' box car with a Pratt design. That solitary class of SS 40' box cars was Great Northern.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

On Thursday, February 3, 2022, 08:33:54 AM PST, Lester Breuer <rforailroad@...> wrote:


After reviewing the new Morning Sun 1950 Freight Car Color Guide, the Minnesota Mining Mfg. Co. car photo on page 104 caught my interest.   A Pratt truss single-sheathed car with Hutchins ends.  I have the Hutchins ends available from Westerfield #4113, however, no kit with a SS boxcar with Prass truss sides.
Does someone know of a kit, resin or plastic, with Pratt truss sides that might work with the Westerfield Hutchins ends?

_._,_._,_


Re: Kit with Pratt truss sides

Robert Ellis <bobjel67@...>
 

Andy: I don't see it, but if you say so, okay.  The sides of a flat kit are identical, and not in any way labeled left or right, but I'm no engineer. Anyway, I think Lester's going to use the '23 ARA, and that's how we got started on this.  Thanks, Bob.


On Sun, Feb 6, 2022, 16:51 Andy Carlson <midcentury@...> wrote:
Robert, think again. Swapping sides changes the relative drop of the diagonals, converting the Howe trusses from compression into Pratt tension-the salient differences between the Pratt and Howe trusses.. No need for flipping sides upside down.
-Andy

On Sunday, February 6, 2022, 10:21:04 AM PST, Robert Ellis <bobjel67@...> wrote:


Andy -- sorry, but no, it won't.  You would have to turn the sides upside down to do that.  At which point, you'd have the side sills at the eaves, and so forth. Bob.

On Thu, Feb 3, 2022, 12:16 Andy Carlson <midcentury@...> wrote:
A simple swap of the left of door side with the right of door side will convert a Howe truss into a Pratt trust (or vice verda). Gets more challenging if the diagonals on the edges of the car sides are different, such as braces.

You did not mention which version of posts; such as Hat-section or Z-bar. Bill Welch told me years ago there was only one Z-bar trussed SS 40' box car with a Pratt design. That solitary class of SS 40' box cars was Great Northern.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

On Thursday, February 3, 2022, 08:33:54 AM PST, Lester Breuer <rforailroad@...> wrote:


After reviewing the new Morning Sun 1950 Freight Car Color Guide, the Minnesota Mining Mfg. Co. car photo on page 104 caught my interest.   A Pratt truss single-sheathed car with Hutchins ends.  I have the Hutchins ends available from Westerfield #4113, however, no kit with a SS boxcar with Prass truss sides.
Does someone know of a kit, resin or plastic, with Pratt truss sides that might work with the Westerfield Hutchins ends?


Re: 6,000 Gal. Tank Car Circa 1906

earlyrail
 

Tony,
I agree it is not a bright red.  but redder then typical box car red.

Howard Garner


Intermountain undeckits

Andy Carlson
 

Intermountain went through a period where the company was still casting parts and shipping them to China for assembly and packaging. The 1958 cu ft covered hopper was an all-China produced car. Intermountain explained their slow response in getting me the 100s of undec kits ordered was the changing over to Chinese increasingly doing 100% of production. So, Intermountain explained to me, Parts for kits needed to be ordered before the time the RTR project was activated. Frank stated that one or more of the toy makers in China involved with the project(s) balked at the low-margin work to get these parts shipped to Colorado. Intermountain ran out of their card board IMRC kit boxes, so for awhile those boxes were replaced with un-colored gloss white boxes. That did not last too long, as the Chinese relented to supply boxed, ready to sell kits in-house. The first kit I got from Intermountain in this new arrangement had an undec 8000 gallon type 27 tank car boxed in a RTR widowed  box. That was a huge disapointment for me as up to this point the strong IMRC kit boxes were easily wrapped by me with kraft mailing paper. Now the expense and time to find a light and suitable box made a $4 markup item less attractive for me to offer. This did not last long as after that the long list of back ordered kits grew exponentially fueled by zero kits being shipped after that.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


Re: Sunshine PRR X37

Gary McMills
 

very nice car you built there.

Gary McMills


On 2022-02-06 09:02, Paul Doggett via groups.io wrote:

Hi

I have just finished a Sunshine PRR X37 resin kit.


Paul Doggett.    England ðŸ�´ó �§ó �¢ó �¥ó �®ó �§ó �¿






Re: DL&W Enterprise Twin Hopper #83300-83799

Steve and Barb Hile
 

Here are the two previous flyers.  As I recall they were mostly railroad related patents.  Lots of patents.

 

Steve Hile

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Nelson Moyer
Sent: Sunday, February 6, 2022 2:31 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] DL&W Enterprise Twin Hopper #83300-83799

 

I didn’t get an announcement either, and I was on the mailing list for the print versions of RP CYC. Since this is DVD 3, what’s on DVD 1 and 2, and are all three still available?

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve and Barb Hile
Sent: Sunday, February 6, 2022 2:22 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] DL&W Enterprise Twin Hopper #83300-83799

 

I received a come-on for this DVD in mid December, but it apparently wasn’t listed to the STMFC list.

 

Pat’s flyer is attached regarding contents.  There are a number of interesting things on it.

 

Steve

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Eric Hansmann
Sent: Sunday, February 6, 2022 1:14 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] DL&W Enterprise Twin Hopper #83300-83799

 

What DVD is this, Steve? I haven’t seen a notice about it. 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN


On Feb 6, 2022, at 10:44 AM, Steve and Barb Hile <shile@...> wrote:

From the recently released DVD from Pat Wider (Railroad Prototype Cyclopedia) which contains a large number of RR freight car diagrams, including DL&W circa 1952.

 

<image001.png>

 

Steve Hile

 


Kit with Pratt truss sides

Andy Carlson
 

Robert, think again. Swapping sides changes the relative drop of the diagonals, converting the Howe trusses from compression into Pratt tension-the salient differences between the Pratt and Howe trusses.. No need for flipping sides upside down.
-Andy

On Sunday, February 6, 2022, 10:21:04 AM PST, Robert Ellis <bobjel67@...> wrote:


Andy -- sorry, but no, it won't.  You would have to turn the sides upside down to do that.  At which point, you'd have the side sills at the eaves, and so forth. Bob.

On Thu, Feb 3, 2022, 12:16 Andy Carlson <midcentury@...> wrote:
A simple swap of the left of door side with the right of door side will convert a Howe truss into a Pratt trust (or vice verda). Gets more challenging if the diagonals on the edges of the car sides are different, such as braces.

You did not mention which version of posts; such as Hat-section or Z-bar. Bill Welch told me years ago there was only one Z-bar trussed SS 40' box car with a Pratt design. That solitary class of SS 40' box cars was Great Northern.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

On Thursday, February 3, 2022, 08:33:54 AM PST, Lester Breuer <rforailroad@...> wrote:


After reviewing the new Morning Sun 1950 Freight Car Color Guide, the Minnesota Mining Mfg. Co. car photo on page 104 caught my interest.   A Pratt truss single-sheathed car with Hutchins ends.  I have the Hutchins ends available from Westerfield #4113, however, no kit with a SS boxcar with Prass truss sides.
Does someone know of a kit, resin or plastic, with Pratt truss sides that might work with the Westerfield Hutchins ends?
_._,_._,_


Intermountain/Centralia Car Shops ATSF Caboose Kit Request

Daniel Kohlberg
 

I am looking for an Intermountain/Centralia Car Shops CCS1199 “ATSF Early Steel Caboose Undecorated” kit.

 

Anyone have one (or two) they want to part with?  I am looking for new/unbuilt kits.  This is for some Alton/GM&O caboose builds that I hope to start on the 2022 workbench.

 

If you have one or two you wish to part with, please email me at the address below with price.

 

Thanks everyone,

Dan Kohlberg

dan@...

Moro, IL USA

 

 

 

 


Re: CN Slabside Hopper

spsalso
 

Here's a link to the True Line hopper info:

https://sites.google.com/a/truelinetrains.ca/tlt/freight-cars/slab-side-hoppers

Note that you can click on "freight", in the upper left, to check out their other cars.


Ed

Edward Sutorik


Re: DL&W Enterprise Twin Hopper #83300-83799

Nelson Moyer
 

I didn’t get an announcement either, and I was on the mailing list for the print versions of RP CYC. Since this is DVD 3, what’s on DVD 1 and 2, and are all three still available?

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve and Barb Hile
Sent: Sunday, February 6, 2022 2:22 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] DL&W Enterprise Twin Hopper #83300-83799

 

I received a come-on for this DVD in mid December, but it apparently wasn’t listed to the STMFC list.

 

Pat’s flyer is attached regarding contents.  There are a number of interesting things on it.

 

Steve

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Eric Hansmann
Sent: Sunday, February 6, 2022 1:14 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] DL&W Enterprise Twin Hopper #83300-83799

 

What DVD is this, Steve? I haven’t seen a notice about it. 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN


On Feb 6, 2022, at 10:44 AM, Steve and Barb Hile <shile@...> wrote:

From the recently released DVD from Pat Wider (Railroad Prototype Cyclopedia) which contains a large number of RR freight car diagrams, including DL&W circa 1952.

 

<image001.png>

 

Steve Hile

 


Re: DL&W Enterprise Twin Hopper #83300-83799

Steve and Barb Hile
 

I received a come-on for this DVD in mid December, but it apparently wasn’t listed to the STMFC list.

 

Pat’s flyer is attached regarding contents.  There are a number of interesting things on it.

 

Steve

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Eric Hansmann
Sent: Sunday, February 6, 2022 1:14 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] DL&W Enterprise Twin Hopper #83300-83799

 

What DVD is this, Steve? I haven’t seen a notice about it. 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN


On Feb 6, 2022, at 10:44 AM, Steve and Barb Hile <shile@...> wrote:

From the recently released DVD from Pat Wider (Railroad Prototype Cyclopedia) which contains a large number of RR freight car diagrams, including DL&W circa 1952.

 

<image001.png>

 

Steve Hile

 


Re: 6,000 Gal. Tank Car Circa 1906

Tony Thompson
 


Howard Garner wrote:

By carefully removing the "tar" build up where the walkway would have been, a check of the underlying paint shows a red that is brighter the
Tuscan or the rattle can primer.
For those that remember old Floquil, it is close the D&H Caboose Red (The special to match the 4 wheel caboose)

The old “D&H Caboose Red” is certainly not a bright red. Instead, it is a rich chestnut kind of boxcar red, and happens to closely match the color SP used for freight cars before and after the transition era. Luckily I was smart enough to buy several bottles while it was still available, and can testify today that I still use it for SP freight cr models. Bright red, it ain’t. 

Tony Thompson


Re: PBCX Tank Car Questions

Tangent Scale Models
 

It is a GATC 1917-Design Tank car.

David Lehlbach
Tangent Scale Models


Re: CN Slabside Hopper

James Yaworsky
 

Atlas bought a lot of the True Line product line, including the slabside hopper molds:

The official online store for the Atlas Model Railroad Company, Inc. manufacturer and seller of model trains and track in N, HO, O and Z scales.
shop.atlasrr.com
Looks like their first run sold out, but presumably they are available from dealers and/or there's going to be a second run in the works...

Jim Yaworsky


Re: 6,000 Gal. Tank Car Circa 1906

earlyrail
 

Not the cars, but 5 tank bodies exist in Dalhart Texas and the lettering tha can be seen is all Union Tank Line (no X in the reporting marks).
Stamp on the end of at least one of the bodies is a 1905 date.
By carefully removing the "tar" build up where the walkway would have been, a check of the underlying paint shows a red that is brighter the
Tuscan or the rattle can primer.
For those that remember old Floquil, it is close the D&H Caboose Red (The special to match the 4 wheel caboose)

So, is someone going to make a trip this summer?

Howard Garner


Re: DL&W Enterprise Twin Hopper #83300-83799

Eric Hansmann
 

What DVD is this, Steve? I haven’t seen a notice about it. 


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On Feb 6, 2022, at 10:44 AM, Steve and Barb Hile <shile@...> wrote:

From the recently released DVD from Pat Wider (Railroad Prototype Cyclopedia) which contains a large number of RR freight car diagrams, including DL&W circa 1952.

 

<image001.png>

 

Steve Hile



Re: CN Slabside Hopper

Drew Bunn
 

On Sun, Feb 6, 2022 at 1:22 PM Robert Ellis <bobjel67@...> wrote:

Sylvan resin kits for these cars are available from time to time on Ebay. I should imagine the True Line cars are, as well, but I don't know. Marc Simpson is reissuing many Sylvan freight car kits. I >don't know if he has done any hoppers, but he can be reached at mesagkits@.... Hope this helps. Bob Ellis.
Atlas actually owns the TLT tooling now and issued a re-release
of these cars in HO, I think, within the last 18 months.

https://shop.atlasrr.com/c-1564-h210.aspx?pagenum=1&sort=7
__________________________________
Drew Bunn

drew.r.bunn@...

Cell - (905) 483-0758


Re: A Day At The Car Shops 1951 - Film About Building Freight Cars at Merchants Despatch

Dennis Storzek <dennis@...>
 

On Sun, Feb 6, 2022 at 05:56 AM, Bill Parks wrote:
One thing I found interesting is that they installed the brake gear from underneath the car.  Somewhere in a box, I have a book on passenger cars that has a picture showing the underframe of a passenger car having everything installed while it was still upside down, and before the body was added....

I had assumed that freight cars were built the same way, as to me at least, that was the safest, and most efficient way to do it.
If you look around 24 minutes into the film, all the brackets,rod, and lever guides were installed while the underframe was still upside down, but the side sills are not, they are part of the side assembly. I suspect they found that the reservoir and piping would be in the way of riveting the side sill connections, so chose to install those items after the body was more complete.

Dennis Storzek


Re: GBW Aluminum Traffic (was Manifest of Lading)

Tim O'Connor
 


Alumina (concentrate) was another rail commodity. A number of private owners and
the Illinois Central and I maybe GN bought covered hoppers specifically for alumina.


On 2/4/2022 4:45 PM, Julian Erceg via groups.io wrote:

Hello all,

First of all, thank you Andy for posting the GBW conductor's book.  Much appreciated!

As I browsed the book, I stumbled upon a page that had aluminum pigs coming from Wisconsin Rapids, probably from the Pacific Northwest and interchanged at Winona which made sense to me.  But on the same page I noticed that there was "alum" traffic that was picked up at Amherst Jct. which wasn't as obvious to me.  Normally I'd assume that "alum" was an abbreviation for "aluminum" but the different pickup location got me questioning that assumption.

"Alum" could also maybe mean aluminum sulfate which is used in paper making. There is certainly paper making industry in central Wisconsin, and a little google searching suggested that some consumers did manufacture their own, so for a bit I considered maybe this was locally originated aluminum sulfate traffic.  But based on car types involved (i.e. gondolas), "aluminum" being spelled out explicitly in some cases, and the other traffic that was also picked up with it, I think it is indeed western originated aluminum traffic.

Anyway, I assume this is traffic moving on a GN / NP to SOO at the Twin Cities to the GBW at Amherst Jct. routing?  Interesting the GBW managed to get included in the routing instead of a direct SOO - AA at Manitowoc route.  Besides the aluminum, there were a few other interesting shipments such as salmon and batteries, although much of the remaining traffic was of a type that also could've originated on the SOO.  Also interesting is the lack of westbound traffic set out at Amherst Jct.  The cars used weren't using the same route going west, that is pretty clear.  (Or at least not via Train 1 that Conductor Hansen worked.  I don't know if there was another westbound operating at this time.)

Making this relevant to the list, I'm wondering if the cars used were assigned to a pool for this traffic as it seems to be a regular move.  They could've also been random empties that carried steel and pipe west.  Most of the cars were empty eastern road gons, with automobile cars making up the rest.  I made a list of all of the aluminum traffic from the book.  The majority moved through Amherst Jct. and what was received at Winona (I assume) has different car types and a different "feel" to the reporting marks.  All of the Amherst Jct. cars were bound for the Ann Arbor whereas some of the Wisconsin Rapids (Winona) cars were bound for the Pere Marquette.  I'll attach the list below.

Separately, now I'm curious, was aluminum sulfate a significant rail commodity? 

Thanks,
Julian Erceg



Attachments:

_

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts