Date   

Re: Reefers and boxes was Foreign Road Stock Cars

Tim O'Connor
 

For most uses, I think a cubic foot comparison makes more sense than a
load limit comparison. Most box car loads would "cube out" before they
reached the load limit, especially for manufactured items. Of course
bulk cargos like grain or cement would not cube out, but those probably
would never be put into a reefer.

Tim O'Connor

On Mar 24, 2011, at 4:28 PM, Dave Evans wrote:
During WWII many of the TRS trains were dropped from the ETTs. I
think empty tank cars were being moved west in unit trains for the
pipeline on wheels, and I have read that empty reefers could be
used in place of box cars (3 reefers = 1 box car), but there was an
imbalance in box car flows on the east coast (lots of EB loaded
boxcars headed to east coast ports, then heading back out WB as
empties). So there was no shortage of empty boxcars on the east coast.
Dave,

I don't get the 3:1 ratio. Many reefers were 30-40 ton capacity
cars, so that is 60-80% of the capacity of a 50 ton general service
box, not 33%. In terms of "cube", the ice bunkers reduced capacity,
but a LOT also depends on the height of the car. The cube of an X29
was 3042, while that of a PFE R-30-12-9 was just under 2K, again
about 60%. Perhaps the better ratio would be 3:2 <G>

Regards
Bruce


Chione duplicate slide freight car list #

sctry
 

I recently discovered an unopened box of Chione duplicate freight car slides (some of which are steam era. However, I don't have the descriptive list to go with the slide. The slide are all Chicago and NorthWestern and marked C138J 1 - 20 and were issued in 1993!

I have saved all the Chione lists way back thru the hand written lists but do not have this one. If anyone on the SteamEra Freight Car group has this list please contact me off-list.

John Greedy


Reefers and boxes was Foreign Road Stock Cars

Bruce Smith
 

On Mar 24, 2011, at 4:28 PM, Dave Evans wrote:
During WWII many of the TRS trains were dropped from the ETTs. I
think empty tank cars were being moved west in unit trains for the
pipeline on wheels, and I have read that empty reefers could be
used in place of box cars (3 reefers = 1 box car), but there was an
imbalance in box car flows on the east coast (lots of EB loaded
boxcars headed to east coast ports, then heading back out WB as
empties). So there was no shortage of empty boxcars on the east coast.
Dave,

I don't get the 3:1 ratio. Many reefers were 30-40 ton capacity
cars, so that is 60-80% of the capacity of a 50 ton general service
box, not 33%. In terms of "cube", the ice bunkers reduced capacity,
but a LOT also depends on the height of the car. The cube of an X29
was 3042, while that of a PFE R-30-12-9 was just under 2K, again
about 60%. Perhaps the better ratio would be 3:2 <G>

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0


Re: Foreign Road Stock Cars

devansprr
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Douglas Harding" <doug.harding@...> wrote:

Dale, in the steam era most livestock and meat reefers moved east, as that
is where the population, ie consumers were located. Animals were raised in
the west and mid-west, meat was consumed in the east and in Europe (a big
customer for American meat). Slaughter took place in a variety of places and
through the years new slaughter plants were located were the animals were
raised.



Granted some animals and some meat moved west. But there were established
packing plants in the populated areas, and animals were raised locally so
there was little need to ship to the west, until we get past the 1960 cut
off date of this list.



Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

Doug,

Fully understand much of the livestock and meat was EB, especially on the PRR. In fact, the PRR operated WB "TRS" symbol trains, with TRS standing for Tank, Reefer, Stock - empty. These trains moved the empties WB as quickly as possible for re-use.

During WWII many of the TRS trains were dropped from the ETTs. I think empty tank cars were being moved west in unit trains for the pipeline on wheels, and I have read that empty reefers could be used in place of box cars (3 reefers = 1 box car), but there was an imbalance in box car flows on the east coast (lots of EB loaded boxcars headed to east coast ports, then heading back out WB as empties). So there was no shortage of empty boxcars on the east coast.

One thing I want to look at in the WWII ICC reports is the changes in fresh food flowing east - there was a lot of rationing in WWII. For meat, I suspect meat was being canned or smoked/salted for use overseas. I doubt new slaughterhouses were set up for this, so the flow of livestock may not have changed too much. But after slaughter, one wonders where the meat was processed for export, and if this may have reduced the need for meat reefers. Do not know.

Also need to look at produce/fruit. Was it being canned for export? Where?

What caught my eye was a WWII Delano Proviso yard photo - there are a LOT of reefers mixed in the classification tracks - often in triplets (way too often - seems like more triplets than singles and pairs, and nothing bigger than triplets). I am beginning to wonder if reefer use (for food) decreased in WWII, and instead the cars were used for merchandise.

Anyone have any ideas?

DaVe Evans


Re: a load

Richard Townsend
 

It's also possible that there had been a derailment in which many animals in transit were killed outright or were injured so badly they were euthanized on site. They then would have needed to be disposed of. I've seen a photo of a state trooper or sheriff's deputy shooting injured animals after a collision and derailment in Colorado.


Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon

-----Original Message-----
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thu, Mar 24, 2011 11:00 am
Subject: [STMFC] Re: a load





A crematorium or mass burial would be appropriate for diseased animals.
But I don't think diseased animals would be shipped in open gondolas!

Tim O

At 3/24/2011 09:35 AM Thursday, you wrote:
Fenton, that is info about a crematorium is interesting. I have not seen any
info about disposal of animals that did not survive the journey, that could
be a very plausible explanation for the gon full of dead cows. And now that
I think about it, they could be destined for a pet food plant or fertilizer
facility.

Doug Harding
www.iowacentralrr.org






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Enterprise type D hopper-door locks

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Mar 24, 2011, at 9:11 AM, al_brown03 wrote:

Happy Thursday!

Can anyone direct me to a good photo or drawing of Enterprise type
D hopper-door locks? I'm detailing up an old blue-box War Emergency
hopper as a Southern Railway car, which had these locks. They
differ from Enterprise *latches*, which were more common.
Al, I'm sending you off-list the drawings for the Enterprise Type D
mechanism that appeared in the 1940 Car Builders' Cyclopedia.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: a load

Tim O'Connor
 

A crematorium or mass burial would be appropriate for diseased animals.
But I don't think diseased animals would be shipped in open gondolas!

Tim O

At 3/24/2011 09:35 AM Thursday, you wrote:
Fenton, that is info about a crematorium is interesting. I have not seen any
info about disposal of animals that did not survive the journey, that could
be a very plausible explanation for the gon full of dead cows. And now that
I think about it, they could be destined for a pet food plant or fertilizer
facility.

Doug Harding
www.iowacentralrr.org


Re: Foreign Road Stock Cars

Tim O'Connor
 

Doug, have you got any carloading totals for the postwar era?
These totals look really lopsided to me, but I don't know much
about the 1918 era.

For example, livestock loading in Iowa are 24x as much as TEXAS?
That is unexpected, to say the least.

Tim O'Connor


--------------------------------

As to the where animals came from: a USDA 1918 chart shows Livestock Loadings by State of Origin, in
thousands of carloads:

Iowa 144.1
Illinois 85.2
Nebraska 61.5
Indiana 46.4
Missouri 45.9
Minnesota 34.6
Ohio 25.7
S Dakota 25.2
Kansas 17.6
Wisconsin 13.1
Kentucky 12.9
Tennessee 10.7
New York. 7.1
Texas 6.3
Pennsylvania 6.2
Oklahoma 5.8
Michigan 4.1
Colorado 3.1
California 4.0


Re: Enterprise type D hopper-door locks

bob_karig <karig@...>
 

There are pictures and drawings in my book, Coal Cars: The First Three Hundred Years.

Bob Karig

--- In STMFC@..., "al_brown03" <abrown@...> wrote:

Happy Thursday!

Can anyone direct me to a good photo or drawing of Enterprise type D hopper-door locks? I'm detailing up an old blue-box War Emergency hopper as a Southern Railway car, which had these locks. They differ from Enterprise *latches*, which were more common.

-- tia --

-- Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.


Enterprise type D hopper-door locks

al_brown03
 

Happy Thursday!

Can anyone direct me to a good photo or drawing of Enterprise type D hopper-door locks? I'm detailing up an old blue-box War Emergency hopper as a Southern Railway car, which had these locks. They differ from Enterprise *latches*, which were more common.

-- tia --

-- Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.


Re: Foreign Road Stock Cars

Douglas Harding
 

Dale, in the steam era most livestock and meat reefers moved east, as that
is where the population, ie consumers were located. Animals were raised in
the west and mid-west, meat was consumed in the east and in Europe (a big
customer for American meat). Slaughter took place in a variety of places and
through the years new slaughter plants were located were the animals were
raised.



Granted some animals and some meat moved west. But there were established
packing plants in the populated areas, and animals were raised locally so
there was little need to ship to the west, until we get past the 1960 cut
off date of this list.



Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org


Re: a load

Douglas Harding
 

Fenton, that is info about a crematorium is interesting. I have not seen any
info about disposal of animals that did not survive the journey, that could
be a very plausible explanation for the gon full of dead cows. And now that
I think about it, they could be destined for a pet food plant or fertilizer
facility.



Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org


Re: Foreign Road Stock Cars

Cyril Durrenberger
 

The car type was not in the reports.  I added that for my own use.  Many years only the tonnage was included.  Starting in 1920 the reports included the tonnage and the number of cars.
 
Cyril Durrenberger

--- On Wed, 3/23/11, Dave Evans <devans1@...> wrote:


From: Dave Evans <devans1@...>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Foreign Road Stock Cars
To: STMFC@...
Date: Wednesday, March 23, 2011, 2:03 PM


 



--- In STMFC@..., Cyril and Lynn Durrenberger <durrecj@...> wrote:

These national statistics are good, but they do not provide a good picture of what happened on individual railroads.
 
A good way to determine the numbers of car loads shipped on an individual railroad is to locate the annual reports to the state railroad commission.  They will have these data for specific live stock and in most years they will have the number of tons (and in many years the number of car loads) for four cases:
SNIP

--- On Tue, 3/22/11, Dave Evans <devans1@...> wrote:


What is interesting is looking at the ratio of live carloads vs. meat reefers. For western roads, live loads dominate. For eastern roads, meat reefers dominate. It gets more interesting in the mid-west - some of the smaller bridge lines that run Chicago and east have significant meat reefer traffic and almost no live stock, as did NKP. But several Central Eastern Region lines (PRR, NYC, B&O the biggies), were closer to having live shipment volumes similar to meat reefers.
SNIP
Dave Evans
Cyril,

I have the ICC reports for '41-'45 - around 160 pages each year, with a page for each RR. LOTS of data, as you list in your post, EXCEPT the reports I have do not indicate car type.

The data by railroad is quite interesting and does shed some light on how much meat moved east of the mid-west stockyards on hoof vs. on hook.

For my interests, the PRR actually accepted a lot of stock cars from other roads, and terminated them mostly on the PRR. But the PRR also loaded a lot of cars. I am curious if this was occurring where PRR had interchange/sidings with some of the mid-western stock yards (Chicago, perhaps St. Louis, Indianapolis). If I assumed (obviously not valid), that all cars loaded by PRR were PRR stock cars, and if all cars loaded by other roads were not PRR stock cars, then I might expect a 50-50 split of PRR stock cars to foreign road stock cars. But that presumes that all empty PRR stock cars returned to PRR rather than be loaded by another road. I doubt that happened.

An example of an interesting data point is the Long Island RR, which had a surprising number of stock cars with cattle delivered to it (over 2000 per year IIRC), but only 7 cars of pigs. I suspect the cattle were for Kosher slaughterhouses/butchers. The pigs for someone else.

But using the data to try to tell the full story would be a huge effort I can not undertake.

Dave Evans








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Foreign Road Stock Cars

Randy Williamson
 

Dave,

I have a study done by the PRR Traffic Department showing all
carloads moved during June, 1947. I converted out to a Excel
spreadsheet. I also added in info from the 1947 Annual Report to give
a rough idea on what the traffic moved during that year.

Randy Williamson
www.prrfreight.com

Quoting Dave Evans :

--- In STMFC@..., Cyril and Lynn Durrenberger wrote:

These national statistics are good, but they do not provide a good
picture of what happened on individual railroads.
 A good way to determine the numbers of car loads shipped on an
individual railroad is to locate the annual reports to the state
railroad commission. They will have these data for specific live
stock and in most years they will have the number of tons (and in
many years the number of car loads) for four cases:
SNIP

--- On Tue, 3/22/11, Dave Evans wrote:


What is interesting is looking at the ratio of live carloads vs. meat
reefers. For western roads, live loads dominate. For eastern roads,
meat reefers dominate. It gets more interesting in the mid-west -
some of the smaller bridge lines that run Chicago and east have
significant meat reefer traffic and almost no live stock, as did NKP.
But several Central Eastern Region lines (PRR, NYC, B&O the biggies),
were closer to having live shipment volumes similar to meat reefers.
SNIP
Dave Evans
Cyril,

I have the ICC reports for '41-'45 - around 160 pages each year, with a
page for each RR. LOTS of data, as you list in your post, EXCEPT the
reports I have do not indicate car type.

The data by railroad is quite interesting and does shed some light on
how much meat moved east of the mid-west stockyards on hoof vs. on hook.

For my interests, the PRR actually accepted a lot of stock cars from
other roads, and terminated them mostly on the PRR. But the PRR also
loaded a lot of cars. I am curious if this was occurring where PRR had
interchange/sidings with some of the mid-western stock yards (Chicago,
perhaps St. Louis, Indianapolis). If I assumed (obviously not valid),
that all cars loaded by PRR were PRR stock cars, and if all cars loaded
by other roads were not PRR stock cars, then I might expect a 50-50
split of PRR stock cars to foreign road stock cars. But that presumes
that all empty PRR stock cars returned to PRR rather than be loaded by
another road. I doubt that happened.

An example of an interesting data point is the Long Island RR, which
had a surprising number of stock cars with cattle delivered to it (over
2000 per year IIRC), but only 7 cars of pigs. I suspect the cattle were
for Kosher slaughterhouses/butchers. The pigs for someone else.

But using the data to try to tell the full story would be a huge effort
I can not undertake.

Dave Evans


Re: Foreign Road Stock Cars

devansprr
 

--- In STMFC@..., Cyril and Lynn Durrenberger <durrecj@...> wrote:

These national statistics are good, but they do not provide a good picture of what happened on individual railroads.
 
A good way to determine the numbers of car loads shipped on an individual railroad is to locate the annual reports to the state railroad commission.  They will have these data for specific live stock and in most years they will have the number of tons (and in many years the number of car loads) for four cases:
SNIP

--- On Tue, 3/22/11, Dave Evans <devans1@...> wrote:


What is interesting is looking at the ratio of live carloads vs. meat reefers. For western roads, live loads dominate. For eastern roads, meat reefers dominate. It gets more interesting in the mid-west - some of the smaller bridge lines that run Chicago and east have significant meat reefer traffic and almost no live stock, as did NKP. But several Central Eastern Region lines (PRR, NYC, B&O the biggies), were closer to having live shipment volumes similar to meat reefers.
SNIP
Dave Evans
Cyril,

I have the ICC reports for '41-'45 - around 160 pages each year, with a page for each RR. LOTS of data, as you list in your post, EXCEPT the reports I have do not indicate car type.

The data by railroad is quite interesting and does shed some light on how much meat moved east of the mid-west stockyards on hoof vs. on hook.

For my interests, the PRR actually accepted a lot of stock cars from other roads, and terminated them mostly on the PRR. But the PRR also loaded a lot of cars. I am curious if this was occurring where PRR had interchange/sidings with some of the mid-western stock yards (Chicago, perhaps St. Louis, Indianapolis). If I assumed (obviously not valid), that all cars loaded by PRR were PRR stock cars, and if all cars loaded by other roads were not PRR stock cars, then I might expect a 50-50 split of PRR stock cars to foreign road stock cars. But that presumes that all empty PRR stock cars returned to PRR rather than be loaded by another road. I doubt that happened.

An example of an interesting data point is the Long Island RR, which had a surprising number of stock cars with cattle delivered to it (over 2000 per year IIRC), but only 7 cars of pigs. I suspect the cattle were for Kosher slaughterhouses/butchers. The pigs for someone else.

But using the data to try to tell the full story would be a huge effort I can not undertake.

Dave Evans


Re: a load

O Fenton Wells
 

I just learned a few weeks ago that the Southern Railroad maintained 7
crematorium for this purpose as well. Of course I had to ask "Really, what
for" and was told it was for livstock that didn't finish the trip, at least
on all fours. I imagine that other railroads did as well.
Fenton

On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 12:37 PM, Douglas Harding <
doug.harding@...> wrote:



A gon full of dead cows, probably en-route to a rendering facility. Gons
were commonly used to haul waste from slaughter houses, commonly known as
offal or gun gons. The photo shows what may have been the result of a bad
blizzard, ie part of a herd that froze to death, or drought ie starved to
death. The date 1950-1959 does not help. In the 30's during the depression
a
number of farmers shot their cattle as the prices were so low. And there
was
a government program that paid farmers to shoot/kill livestock in an
attempt
to reduce supply and thus raise prices. It could be the photo is the result
of a similar government program in Canada in the 50's.

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




--
Fenton Wells
3047 Creek Run
Sanford NC 27332
919-499-5545
srrfan1401@...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Foreign Road Stock Cars

Douglas Harding
 

Jeff thanks for the intro. Can't do the entire clinic, but let me share a
few thoughts and attempt to answer some of Tim's questions.

Livestock numbers changed drastically from 1900 to 1900 to 2000. In numbers
raised, numbers slaughtered and numbers handled by rail. One blanket
statement or one statistic from one year will not provide the answer.



As to the number of animals in a stock car: this info has been published in
RMC Oct or Nov 2004 and other locations, but here is a pretty standard
loading chart, used by a number of railroads. This one from a Union Pacific
Livestock Shipping Guide and Directory published in 1941



Cattle per Car

Ave. Weight 300 400 500 600 700
800 900 1000 1100 1200 1300 1400

36-ft. car 60 50 42 37
33 30 27 25 23 22
21 19

40-ft car 67 56 46 40
37 33 30 27 25 23
22 21



Hogs per Car

Ave. Weight 100 125 150 175 200
225 250 275 300 325 350 400

36-ft. car 130 115 100 89 79
73 68 62 59 56 53
47

40-ft. car 145 127 110 98 88
82 76 69 65 62 59
52



Sheep and Lambs per Car

Ave. Weight 50 75 100 125 150
180

36-ft. car 155 125 105 96 85
75

40-ft. car 170 138 116 104 94
83



The above figures are for single deck cars. In loading hogs or sheep in
double-deck cars the number loaded in the upper deck should be eight to ten
less than that recommended for loading in lower-deck or single-deck cars,
especially in hot weather.



Also realize that market size changed. Today a market ready hog is about
225-250lbs, yields about 140lbs of meat. I have seen reference to 400-500lb
hogs back in the 1930's & 40's as fatter hogs were preferred then.

A market ready steer (cattle) is about 1000 to 1800lbs today, depending upon
the breed. A 1200 steer will yield about 800lbs of meat. More exotic and
larger breeds exist today, then were common in the 1940's. Then it was
primarily longhorns, Angus, Herefords and Shorthorns.



As to the where animals came from: a USDA 1918 chart shows Livestock
Loadings by State of Origin, in thousands of carloads:

Iowa 144.1

Illinois 85.2

Nebraska 61.5

Indiana 46.4

Missouri 45.9

Minnesota 34.6

Ohio 25.7

S Dakota 25.2

Kansas 17.6

Wisconsin 13.1

Kentucky 12.9

Tennessee 10.7

New York. 7.1

Texas 6.3

Pennsylvania 6.2

Oklahoma 5.8

Michigan 4.1

Colorado 3.1

California 4.0

http://etc.usf.edu/maps

Iowa loaded more than 25 per cent of all the hogs shipped during 1918,
whereas Missouri which was the fifth, loaded 8 per cent of the total.



Production of packing house products shifted dramatically from 1900 to 1950,
from Chicago to the Missouri River basin: Sioux Falls, Sioux City, Omaha, St
Joe, Kansas City and St Louis. Kansas City was second to Chicago for the
number of Packing Plants, Omaha I believe was third. There were also major
meat packing centers in LA, S San Francisco, Portland, Denver, Phoenix, S St
Paul, Indianapolis, Cincinnati, to just name a few. Prior to 1900 major
centers were in New Jersey and New England as well.



Receipt of animals will vary by type: in 1954 Denver was tops for Sheep,
Chicago top for cattle and hogs, Milwaukee for Calves.



As to the number of slaughter houses: in 1939 Illinois only had 82 plants
but produced 18.11% of PHP value, Iowa was second with 32 plants and 9.72%
of value, Calif was 4th with 129 plants but only 5.93% of value, Ohio was
7th with 158 plants but only 5.0% of value. So number of plants does not
equate to number of animals slaughtered. I have these stats from the US
Dept of Commerce for all states.



I have much, much more, including a number of charts and graphs from
government publications.



Another source of some great information online is
http://atsfrr.net/resources/Sandifer/Clinics/Stk/Index.htm



Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org


Re: a load

Douglas Harding
 

A gon full of dead cows, probably en-route to a rendering facility. Gons
were commonly used to haul waste from slaughter houses, commonly known as
offal or gun gons. The photo shows what may have been the result of a bad
blizzard, ie part of a herd that froze to death, or drought ie starved to
death. The date 1950-1959 does not help. In the 30's during the depression a
number of farmers shot their cattle as the prices were so low. And there was
a government program that paid farmers to shoot/kill livestock in an attempt
to reduce supply and thus raise prices. It could be the photo is the result
of a similar government program in Canada in the 50's.



Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org


Re: Foreign Road Stock Cars

Cyril Durrenberger
 

These national statistics are good, but they do not provide a good picture of what happened on individual railroads.
 
A good way to determine the numbers of car loads shipped on an individual railroad is to locate the annual reports to the state railroad commission.  They will have these data for specific live stock and in most years they will have the number of tons (and in many years the number of car loads) for four cases:
 
1.  Tons (Cars) loaded on line and delivered on line
2.  Tons (Cars) loaded on line and shipped off line
3.  Tons (Cars) received from off line sites and delivered to locations on line
4.  Tons (Cars) received from off line sites and delivered to off line sites.
 
I have studied these data prior to 1927 for the SP Atlantic Lines (Central System and Sunset System), but have not looked at this information for later years that are beyond the time period of interest to me.
 
I am including below a sample of totals on the Houston East & West Texas for 1910.
 





Type of commodity

Commodity

Tons/yr

Tons/car (a)

# cars

Percent of total

Car type (b)


Agricultural

Cotton

7460

15.4

484

3.6

B/F


 

Cotton seed

5373

25.7

209

1.6

B


 

Cotton seed oil

779

 

29

 

T


 

Cotton seed products

4018

 

156

1.2

B


 

Fruit, vegetables

7604

16.5

460

3.5

R


 

Grain

41046

41.0

1000

7.5

B


 

Flour

6879

25.9

265

2.0

B


 

Other Mill products

15691

24.7

636

4.8

B


 

Hay

7978

12.4

643

4.8

B


 

Rice

2624

37.3

70

0.5

B


 

Misc Ag prod

2263

19.2

118

0.9

B


 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Animal

Live stock

5175

11.8

438

3.1

S


 

Dressed meat

545

15.7

35

 

R


 

Other packing house prod

6265

 

314

2.4

R


 

Wool/hair

9

 

1

 

B


 

Poultry/Fish

795

11.1

72

0.5

S/R


 

Other products of animals

10745

42.0

254

1.9

R


 

 

 

 

 

 

 


 

 

 

 

 

 

 
 
(a) The number of cars needed to haul this tonnage is based on the tonnage/car ratio from          1920

--- On Tue, 3/22/11, Dave Evans <devans1@...> wrote:


From: Dave Evans <devans1@...>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Foreign Road Stock Cars
To: STMFC@...
Date: Tuesday, March 22, 2011, 10:07 PM


 



--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


Thanks, Steve!

Do you know if the proportions remained similar into the 1950's? Do you
know approximately the number of hogs in a carload? Cows in a carload?
I'm mostly wondering what percentage of carloads were hogs vs cattle.

Tim O'Connor


"The 50 stockyards at which live stock are bought and sold (receipts of animals in 1916)"
Cattle = 14,365,900
Calves = 2,726,408
Sheep = 19,389,784
Hogs = 42,517,364
Total = 78,999,456
- Steve Hedlund
I have the 1941-1945 ICC Freight commodity statistics annual reports.

For 1941:

United States carloads originated:

Horses, mules, ponies and asses - 10,887
Cattle and calves - single deck - 305,555
Calves, doubled deck - 6,830
Sheep and goats, single deck - 20,691
Sheep and goats, double deck - 80,052
Hogs, single deck - 68,701
Hogs, double deck - 117,358
Animals, live, NOS - 149

Also:
Fresh meats, NOS - 268,042

What is interesting is looking at the ratio of live carloads vs. meat reefers. For western roads, live loads dominate. For eastern roads, meat reefers dominate. It gets more interesting in the mid-west - some of the smaller bridge lines that run Chicago and east have significant meat reefer traffic and almost no live stock, as did NKP. But several Central Eastern Region lines (PRR, NYC, B&O the biggies), were closer to having live shipment volumes similar to meat reefers.

There is a ton of data here that could be analyzed way too many ways, but it clearly indicates that lots of live stock, in 1941, made it east of the big mid-western stock yards (although not the majority of the meat consumed).

The quest for determining stock car distribution continues...

Dave Evans








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Re: Foreign Road Stock Cars

Cyril Durrenberger
 

Poulty cars were built as early as 1900.  There are records of their use prior to 1920 on what became the T&NO.
 
Cyril Durrenberger

--- On Wed, 3/23/11, Nelson Moyer <ku0a@...> wrote:


From: Nelson Moyer <ku0a@...>
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Foreign Road Stock Cars
To: STMFC@...
Date: Wednesday, March 23, 2011, 7:58 AM


 



From pictures taken along CB&Q branch lines around the turn of the 20th
century up to the 1930s, small shipments of poultry from individual farms
were sent to market in cages as express shipments. Express was also used to
deliver chicks to farmers in the spring. I've seen pictures of approximately
3x3x2 ft. wooden cages sitting on freight platforms beside several milk
cans. Chicks were shipped in cardboard boxes. Cans and wooden cages were
returned to farmers empty. I know some railroads built poultry cars later in
the 20th century, but those cars postdate my era, so I haven't studied them.

Nelson



-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
asychis@...
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 8:02 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Foreign Road Stock Cars

Tim, I think you need to consider what is considered to be "animals."
You mention pigs and sheep, but what about chickens and other poultry.

Jerry Michels



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