Date   

Re: P2k 50 ft auto car with 5/5 ends, 4/7 side panels?

Tim O'Connor
 

Mike

Yes, P2K produced both versions (w/ and w/o end doors) as you describe.

It's similar to the Fe-24, but the riveting (panel arrangement) is not
exactly correct -- only Athearn's ancient 50 ft double door car has the
correct panels for the Fe-24, but of course it comes up short in every
other category.

Tim O'


Does anyone know if P2k produced the 50 ft auto car with 4/7 side panels,
5/5 ends, without end doors? If so, would not this car be fairly close to a
Santa Fe Fe-24? P2k did produce the car with 4/7 sides and one 5/5 end along
with an end door.
Mike Brock


Re: Mopac hoppers in Bellevue, OH

Tim O'Connor
 

Mike,

The MP ran up the EAST side of the Mississippi in Southern Illinois
on joint trackage with the Cotton Belt, to reach East St Louis.

Tim O'Connor

At 5/18/2011 11:10 PM Wednesday, you wrote:
In keeping with the rather novel concept of discussing frt cars, I received
my copy of Classic Trains In Search of Steam Vol III today. Leafing through
the various articles about Pennsy and the B&O I was somewhat stunned to see
the photos on page 14 and 15 of the yard on the NKP at Bellevue, OH, south
of Sandusky. Sitting in the yard is a string of 5 Mopac hoppers and several
Q hoppers as well. So...Mopac hoppers ranging from Ohio to California? Not
bad. I assume Mopac and the Q was moving southern Illinois coal to the Great
Lakes. Mopac, operating west of the Mississippi, sending hoppers east of
that river? What is one to think?

Mike Brock


Re: Multigenerational Search for Truth

Tim O'Connor
 

If we used N-G, we could call it the Glottal Stop Theory of freight
cars, in honor of the pronunciation of N-G. Remember the name may be
N-G but we can call the name something else (ref Lewis Carroll, Through
The Looking Glass)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNYOEgMeSvM

Tim O'ng

So I guess it would be okay to continue saying "Gilbert-Nelson"
<g> and indeed, in science the person who develops and makes
accessible an idea sometimes gets more credit than the originator. But
I will have to reflect on whether to change my own terminology to
"Nelson-Gilbert" in future. Or maybe we could just call it the "car
fleet theory," but that's vague and not shorter. Aw heck, I'm sticking
with G-N.

Tony Thompson


Re: Sunshine "Type 17"

Ian Cranstone
 

On 2011-05-18, at 5:58 PM, William Darnaby wrote:

I have recently assembled a pair of the Sunshine GATC "Type 17" 8k tank
cars, a D-X and a Tarvia. This kit is well done and builds into a fine
model. The instructions leave a little to be desired, however.
[major snip]

Thank you Bill for what appear to be excellent suggestions, which I intend to incorporate just as soon as Martin sees fit to send me my examples (probably not until the fall). Hopefully I can still find this message by then...

Ian Cranstone
Osgoode, Ontario, Canada
lamontc@...
http://freightcars.nakina.net
http://siberians.nakina.net


Re: COINCIDENCES

Tim O'Connor
 

Yes, but L&A 12275 also has two couplers, so it cancels out. :-) :-)

Tim

At 5/18/2011 09:45 PM Wednesday, you wrote:
Given that NP 12275 has two couplers, isn't it more like 1 in 1,000,000?

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon

-----Original Message-----
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wed, May 18, 2011 6:08 pm
Subject: [STMFC] Re: COINCIDENCES

Rufus

How they came up with those odds, I'll never know. :-)

There were about 2,000,000 freight cars in 1938.

Given the situation where NP 12275 is coupled to a freight car,
then chance that the other car is L&A 12275 is... 1 in 2,000,000.

Tim O'Connor


P2k 50 ft auto car with 5/5 ends, 4/7 side panels?

mike brock <brockm@...>
 

Does anyone know if P2k produced the 50 ft auto car with 4/7 side panels, 5/5 ends, without end doors? If so, would not this car be fairly close to a Santa Fe Fe-24? P2k did produce the car with 4/7 sides and one 5/5 end along with an end door.

Mike Brock


Mopac hoppers in Bellevue, OH

mike brock <brockm@...>
 

In keeping with the rather novel concept of discussing frt cars, I received my copy of Classic Trains In Search of Steam Vol III today. Leafing through the various articles about Pennsy and the B&O I was somewhat stunned to see the photos on page 14 and 15 of the yard on the NKP at Bellevue, OH, south of Sandusky. Sitting in the yard is a string of 5 Mopac hoppers and several Q hoppers as well. So...Mopac hoppers ranging from Ohio to California? Not bad. I assume Mopac and the Q was moving southern Illinois coal to the Great Lakes. Mopac, operating west of the Mississippi, sending hoppers east of that river? What is one to think?

Mike Brock


Re: Great Northern boxcar

Mark
 

Thanks to Steve, Tim and Rich. Just thought that car looked interesting enough to make one!

Sincerely, Mark Morgan

--- In STMFC@..., Rich C <rhcdmc@...> wrote:

Here is one in Glacier Green
 
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/gn/gn40259ajs.jpg

Rich Christie
--- On Wed, 5/18/11, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
Subject: [STMFC] RE: Great Northern boxcar
To: STMFC@...
Date: Wednesday, May 18, 2011, 2:08 PM


 




I am certain this subject has come up before, but I can't locate the
emails. GN rebuilt 50' single sheathed, single and double door auto cars
with steel sides in the 1950's. The single door cars can be modeled
with the Westerfield kits which have the fishbelly underframe and ends
needed for the project. It looks like this double door car got new ends
as well as a new roof.

I have a photo of one of the cars, Richard Hendrickson's model of
GN 39345, which is a single sheathed car painted in the Empire Builder
scheme.

Tim O'Connor

----------------------------------------------

http://railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=205357&nseq=134

From Scott R. Thompson's "Great Northern Color Pictorial - Vol 1", page 90:
Series 40100 to 40299 - rebuilt from outside braced box cars in 1954 -
original series - 29000 to 29899 - built 1925.
Outside steel sheathing, Pullman ends and roof, upgrade brake equipment.
Two 7' wide Camel doors, Universal handbrake, friction bearing trucks.
IL = 50' 6"
IW = 9' 2"
IH = 10' 6"
4862 cubic capacity
110,000 load capacity.
Steve Haas
Snoqualmie, WA








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Multigenerational Search for Truth

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Dave Nelson wrote:
Not correct. I came up w/ the idea about 15-16 years ago after I built my ORER database.
Thanks for the clarification, Dave. I wasn't aware of how it started.

Tim was far more engaged in the idea than I was (he explained: what else is a retired accountant going to do when he
lives out in the sticks?) and he took ahold of it like a hungry dog does a bone and so, IMO, deserves more far credit than I for explaining it to everyone else.
So I guess it would be okay to continue saying "Gilbert-Nelson" <g> and indeed, in science the person who develops and makes accessible an idea sometimes gets more credit than the originator. But I will have to reflect on whether to change my own terminology to "Nelson-Gilbert" in future. Or maybe we could just call it the "car fleet theory," but that's vague and not shorter. Aw heck, I'm sticking with G-N.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Multigenerational Search for Truth

Dave Nelson
 

Not correct. I came up w/ the idea about 15-16 years ago after I built my
ORER database. There was plenty of data I could slice and dice any which
way I wanted. I posted the original idea on the old FCL forum. Tim came
along a couple of years later and joined the discussion, adding his own take
on the data he had in hand. Tim was far more engaged in the idea than I
was (he explained: what else is a retired accountant going to do when he
lives out in the sticks?) and he took ahold of it like a hungry dog does a
bone and so, IMO, deserves more far credit than I for explaining it to
everyone else.

Dave Nelson

-----Original Message-----


Tim O'Connor wrote:
JP, consider:
Tony Thompson wrote "G-N"
Bruce Smith wrote "N-G"
I do use the abbreviation, but only when I've also used the full names
in the same post. It's my recollection that Tim originated the ideas,
developed them pretty fully, and reported them several times in depth to
this list, and that Dave added considerable weight to the concept with more
data. (If that's not right, someone please correct me.) In the research
environment where I was trained, the proper order of the credit would then
be Gilbert-Nelson.


Re: COINCIDENCES

Scott Pitzer
 

But many roads had a car numbered 12275, and any of them would been considered a "hit."


On May 18, 2011, at 6:45 PM, richtownsend@... wrote:

Given that NP 12275 has two couplers, isn't it more like 1 in 1,000,000?

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon

-----Original Message-----
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wed, May 18, 2011 6:08 pm
Subject: [STMFC] Re: COINCIDENCES

Rufus

How they came up with those odds, I'll never know. :-)

There were about 2,000,000 freight cars in 1938.

Given the situation where NP 12275 is coupled to a freight car,
then chance that the other car is L&A 12275 is... 1 in 2,000,000.

Tim O'Connor

The photo RVN01407 that Al Brown mentions is posted at the Ronald Nixon
Collection of the Museum of the Rockies, with the caption provided by
Nixon, "Thought you might like a couple of unusual shots. This is NP
12275 and L&A 12275 in 602 at Glendive (MT) in September 1938. Both cars
were loaded with grain for Duluth. Railroad Magazine said the odds of
such an occasion were 782,000,000 to 1."

http://muse.museum.montana.edu/rvndb/rvnjpeg_img_rec.php?objno=RVN01407

Rufus Cone
Bozeman, MT
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: NMRA Conventions

Bill Welch
 

Dear Doug:

IMO, this would only require coordination between the Registration person and the Program person with the Program person to be in touch with his or her Presenters letting them know they will receive a refund for the registration or alternatively working out a special reg. form. Since the Program Person would be in touch with speakers anyway about various details, this would not be an odious task.

I am wondering however when the Sheriff is going to call a halt to this topic.

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@..., "Douglas Auburg" <cdauburg@...> wrote:

Doug Auburg wrote:
As a result of discussions about this topic several years ago it was
decided that the simplest and best solution was to not offer "comps"
to clinicians, or layout tour owners. That decision may or may not
have been the "right" one, but it most certainly has made the
organization and administration of conventions easier, saved hurt
feelings of some clinicians, and kept fees down by eliminating the
costs associated with "comping."
Great. Simpler and cheaper convention administration, at the
expense of the volunteer clinician. Not an approach I approve of,
Doug. Fairness in comps or other support is a legitimate worry, but
solving it by stiffing ALL clinicians is a solution which I'd
characterize as simple, appealing, and wrong.



Tony,

You may well be right. Fortunately, I don't have to worry about it anymore.




Having said that, I'd love to hear a set of criteria for setting up or
dealing with such reimbursements, should you have some. One only learns by
asking.

Doug



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


ADMIN: Re: NMRA Conventions

mike brock <brockm@...>
 

Well...hmmm, my judicial robes seem a bit frayed...certainly not from over use. Anyhow, hmmmf...OK, got them on. Lesssee...Oh yes. NMRA conventions. Odd name for a frt car. Unless someone specifically addresses a frt car, discussion about the NMRA is now terminated. Failure to comply will...well, you know...I hate to have to go down into the dungeon tonight...full moon... you know how some of those guys get this time of the month...

Mike Brock
STMFC Owner


Re: COINCIDENCES

Richard Townsend
 

Given that NP 12275 has two couplers, isn't it more like 1 in 1,000,000?





Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon

-----Original Message-----
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wed, May 18, 2011 6:08 pm
Subject: [STMFC] Re: COINCIDENCES




Rufus

How they came up with those odds, I'll never know. :-)

There were about 2,000,000 freight cars in 1938.

Given the situation where NP 12275 is coupled to a freight car,
then chance that the other car is L&A 12275 is... 1 in 2,000,000.

Tim O'Connor

The photo RVN01407 that Al Brown mentions is posted at the Ronald Nixon
Collection of the Museum of the Rockies, with the caption provided by
Nixon, "Thought you might like a couple of unusual shots. This is NP
12275 and L&A 12275 in 602 at Glendive (MT) in September 1938. Both cars
were loaded with grain for Duluth. Railroad Magazine said the odds of
such an occasion were 782,000,000 to 1."

http://muse.museum.montana.edu/rvndb/rvnjpeg_img_rec.php?objno=RVN01407

Rufus Cone
Bozeman, MT


Re: PRR Freight Car Urban Legends (was Re: Underrepresented roads and car types)

John C. La Rue, Jr. <MOFWCABOOSE@...>
 

Class F22, one of 124 built to handle naval guns. The story goes that it was kept carefully hidden on the Mason City & Clear Lake until the statute of limitations had expired. This car still exists on the Iowa Traction RR, with a snowplow blade attached (not the original plow), and still sees service every winter.


John C. La Rue, Jr.
Bonita Springs, FL

-----Original Message-----
From: benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wed, May 18, 2011 8:42 pm
Subject: [STMFC] PRR Freight Car Urban Legends (was Re: Underrepresented roads and car types)







Rich Orr wrote:
"As I recall the car was repainted in the P/L of the road then in possession of the car. It was later identified by the purely PRR trucks and the C/N and original car number on the center sill. Or I could be thinking of another piece of lore."

You're probably thinking about the Class F22 or F23 flatcar converted to a snowplow by the Mason City and Clear Lake, later owned by the Iowa Interstate. See messages 46525 and 27798 for this thread. (No, I don't wante to get into this topic again six+ years later.)

Ben Hom









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: COINCIDENCES

John C. La Rue, Jr. <MOFWCABOOSE@...>
 

In fact, the original negative was taken by R. L. Pitts, a model railroader who lived in Conshohocken and took many interesting pictures in the late 1940s and early 1950s. This one was taken circa 1949 in Fernwood, Pennsylvania, and I believe it was published in Model Railroader soon thereafter. Pitts sold at least some of his negative collection to Roy C. Feld of Jeanette, Pennsylvania, who passed them on to me for printing and safekeeping.

If Paul Dunn was using a camera with a ground glass aiming device, this would bring the camera to about waist level, which would certainly be a kid's perspective if his was already short.



John C. La Rue, Jr.
Bonita Springs, FL

-----Original Message-----
From: cinderandeight@...
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wed, May 18, 2011 5:07 pm
Subject: [STMFC] Re: COINCIDENCES





Ben,
I decline credit for that X28A, it's from John LaRue's collection (neg.
#16561). I don't think Dunn ever got to Philly, so the photographer is
probably a mystery. You can often tell Dunn's shots, they look like they are
shot from the vantage angle of a little kid. I've seen photos of him and he
was very short. For sometime I tried to mimic his shots by shooting from my
knees.
Rich Burg


Re: COINCIDENCES

Tim O'Connor
 

Rufus

How they came up with those odds, I'll never know. :-)

There were about 2,000,000 freight cars in 1938.

Given the situation where NP 12275 is coupled to a freight car,
then chance that the other car is L&A 12275 is... 1 in 2,000,000.

Tim O'Connor

The photo RVN01407 that Al Brown mentions is posted at the Ronald Nixon
Collection of the Museum of the Rockies, with the caption provided by
Nixon, "Thought you might like a couple of unusual shots. This is NP
12275 and L&A 12275 in 602 at Glendive (MT) in September 1938. Both cars
were loaded with grain for Duluth. Railroad Magazine said the odds of
such an occasion were 782,000,000 to 1."

http://muse.museum.montana.edu/rvndb/rvnjpeg_img_rec.php?objno=RVN01407

Rufus Cone
Bozeman, MT


NMRA Conventions

Doug Auburg
 

Doug Auburg wrote:
As a result of discussions about this topic several years ago it was
decided that the simplest and best solution was to not offer "comps"
to clinicians, or layout tour owners. That decision may or may not
have been the "right" one, but it most certainly has made the
organization and administration of conventions easier, saved hurt
feelings of some clinicians, and kept fees down by eliminating the
costs associated with "comping."
Great. Simpler and cheaper convention administration, at the
expense of the volunteer clinician. Not an approach I approve of,
Doug. Fairness in comps or other support is a legitimate worry, but
solving it by stiffing ALL clinicians is a solution which I'd
characterize as simple, appealing, and wrong.



Tony,

You may well be right. Fortunately, I don't have to worry about it anymore.




Having said that, I'd love to hear a set of criteria for setting up or
dealing with such reimbursements, should you have some. One only learns by
asking.

Doug


A new folder in files: "Prototypes for these HO models?"

spsalso
 

Inspired by Tony Thompson, I figured I try setting up a place for the group to post info on the prototypes for various HO models. I was tremendously impressed by how everyone got together and did the Accurail gon. THAT was a fine piece of work by us! So why not have a folder that contains the various bits of research that some of us have done?

So, this is an experiment. I've never done this before. I may have done it wrong. It might need changes or replacing. Or it might just not be worth it. Anyway, I thought I'd give it a try.

If it does work, perhaps our dear list leader will someday make mention of it in the group description so that newbies will know the folder's there.

With a similar trepidation to when I used to be up in front of the class and giving an oral book report, I submit this to the group.


Ed

Edward Sutorik


Re: Underrepresented roads and car types (UNCLASSIFIED)

Mike Fleming
 

L&BC was got the only one to abscond with PC boxcars LOAM did it too I think that stood for Louisiana Midland


Mike Fleming
Superintendent, Bluff City Div. SER, NMRA
President Emeritus, Memphis Society of Model Railroaders
Vice President, Memphis Railroad and Trolley Museum Model Railroad Club, a 100% NMRA Member Club

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "soolinehistory" <destorzek@...>
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Underrepresented roads and car types (UNCLASSIFIED)
Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 00:25:45 -0000



--- In STMFC@..., SUVCWORR@... wrote:




As I recall the car was repainted in the P/L of the road then in possession of the car. It was later identified by the purely PRR trucks and the C/N and original car number on the center sill. Or I could be thinking of another piece of lore.

Rich Orr
That was the LaSalle & Bureau County RR, which misappropriated a bunch of cars from the Penn Central, but it wasn't for the desire to make the cars look better and help Pennsey out; it was outright theft, and as I recall, some people did prison time.

It also happened after the cut-off of this list.

I'm going to join the side that says the repainting on a foreign road is an urban legend. The only work a foreign road will do is work where there is a standard AAR charge for the work, otherwise they will have no way to get paid. I doubt the AAR set a charge for repainting cars. I would imagine that they did have a charge for re-stenciling, as the car is unusable if the reporting marks can't be read, so that IS likely.

Dennis




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