Date   

AAR Open Top loading Rules

Charlie Duckworth
 

I've been cleaning out the basement to make room to move my helix and expand the layout by 18 feet (actually 36 feet as I have two decks). I'll be able to add one of the small towns I'd initially left out of the design. Actually I didn't leave it out on purpose but Mrs D just pulled down the barb wire to let me expand. So I'm going through teh 'fun' of going through boxes to make room and 'rediscovered' several AAR books for the loading of lumber and machinery.

I put some of ebay this morning to see if there was any interest. I wasn't sure how to make them available for searches so I though I'd also post to this list as modelers would be interested in this additional information for detailing loads with the proper blocking and bracing.

I listed three books this morning - here's a url to one of them.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270776067855&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT

Charlie Duckworth


Re: Walthers Wood Reefers (HO Scale)

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jul 1, 2011, at 10:05 PM, tyesac@... wrote:

From Richard H:

. So it's highly unlikely that the Walthers models are
anywhere even close to being accurate representations of the Santa Fe
prototype cars.
Not to mention the door is probably a foot to narrow for a SFRD car.
Yes, that too. The Santa Fe was one of the few reefer owners who
built all their cars with 5' wide doors, so "generic" models lettered
for SFRD never get that right.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Walthers Wood Reefers (HO Scale)

tyesac@...
 

From Richard H:

. So it's highly unlikely that the Walthers models are
anywhere even close to being accurate representations of the Santa Fe
prototype cars.




Not to mention the door is probably a foot to narrow for a SFRD car.

Tom C

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Fri, Jul 1, 2011 4:32 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Walthers Wood Reefers (HO Scale)




On Jul 1, 2011, at 1:49 PM, Bob C wrote:

I see Walthers is advertising new paint schemes and road numbers
for their HO scale forty-foot double-sheathed wood reefers with
wood ends and roofs. These cars will be available in February 2012.

These include one Santa Fe reefer and one PFE reefer. Here are the
links:

http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/932-60851

http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/932-60853

Does anyone know the origin of these models? Are they from the
Train Miniature line that Walthers purchased?

Anyone care to comment on the accuracy of the bodies, paint schemes
and road numbers for these cars?
Bob, it's hard to say anything useful about these models since
Walthers only shows representations of the artwork, no photos of the
models themselves.

I'll let others comment on the PFE version, but I can tell you that
the Santa Fe car's lettering looks okay, however Walthers only shows
one side of the car; on the prototype cars, the other side got the
system map, not the Grand Canyon slogan, and though one assumes that
the R&D people at Walthers know that, other manufacturers have
produced models with slogans (or maps) on both sides before, so there
are no guarantees. Assuming it has a map on the other side, the
question then is which map? The car is shown as being reweighed in
5-40, and that's about the time the original curved-line maps
introduced in 1-40 were replaced by the first version of the straight
line map, which lasted only two or three months before being replaced
by a second version with the word "Ship" added. Unless Walthers got
advice from a very knowledgeable Santa Fe historian, there's a strong
likelihood that they got it wrong.

Even more important, the Santa Fe car is lettered to represent an
Rr-11, and these were steel-framed wood sheathed cars of unique
design with ARA steel underframes and notched corners where the ends
met the sides. They were rendered even more unique by the fact that,
by the time the slogans and maps were adopted in 1940, almost all of
them had received replacement steel roofs of rectangular panel Murphy
design. So it's highly unlikely that the Walthers models are
anywhere even close to being accurate representations of the Santa Fe
prototype cars.

Richard Hendrickson









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: OMI two dome tank car

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jul 1, 2011, at 7:45 PM, Tom Birkett wrote:

[snip]

As for the OMI car, although pretty small, a two compartment lube
oil car
with coils is not unthinkable.
Tom, a 10,000 gal. two compartment car may seem small by your
standards, but it was actually unusually large as steam era tank cars
went. Most two and three compartment cars were of 4,000 to 6,000
gal. total capacity, relatively few were as large as 8,000 gal., and
10,000 gal. cars were quite rare. Your suggestion that a two
compartment car with insulation and heating coils might have been
used in lubricating oil service seems highly plausible, however.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: "Oil Car" lettering on UP tank cars

Dick Harley
 

Many folks on this list should already know that I have a substantial amount of Union Pacific PL&N (Painting, Lettering & Numbering) drawings and related information. A few days ago, when I first noticed this question and thread, I started to pull out some relevant documentation to find some answers. (Accurate data usually is not created instantly.)

In the mean time, the large amount of incorrect information and frivolity posted on this subject leads me to feel that my information and theories would not be particularly welcome at this point. So, if anyone one really wants some honest information about UP lettering, please contact me off list.

BTW, has anyone else noticed that on the U.P. 4002 tank car model which Mike posted that the test data decal is both upside down and inside out? Aren't photographs a wonderful thing?


Cheers,
Dick Harley
Laguna Beach, CA


FS NEW HO Products from Mount Vernon Shops!

John S. Frantz
 

Mount Vernon Shops is happy to announce the following HO products:

 

Continuing
on MVS’s PRR Prewar Hopper series in the Circle Keystone Scheme, we now
have for sale decals for GLa and GLg class hopper cars. This set has
enough data for 8 cars. More information can be found here: http://www.mountvernonshops.com/GLA.html

 

Also,
the test samples have arrived from the caster for the LCL Bulk Material
Containers. I’d like to remind anyone that hasn’t sent a pre-order in yet,
that any orders received before delivery of the containers will be given
free shipping on their container order, whether you order 1 set or 10,
shipping is free regardless. The decals have arrived, and I’m only waiting
for the caster to let me know h has them ready for pickup. More
information can be found here: http://www.mountvernonshops.com/C1.html

 

Additionally, I’ve sent off to the
printer a decal set for doing prewar as-delivered Carbon Black covered Hopper
Schemes. I’ve managed to fit 4 different schemes onto one set, hopefully one
I’ve picked will work for you.

 

Mentioned above was the PRR Prewar
Hopper series in Circle Keystone. The set for doing H22’s is done and will be
sent to the printer after getting back the Carbon Black set, it will have
enough data for doing 4 cars. That leaves two classes yet, the H21 and H31. I’m
currently working on artwork for the H31 classes. This set will have enough to
do 5 cars on one set. After talking with my project consultants the H21 set
will be a multi-sheet set. Overall, I will do two 12 number blocks, so if you
would order both sets, you could do at least 24 hoppers with one set. With the
completion of the H31 and H21 decal sets, you could effectively model your entire PRR Prewar
Hopper Fleet using decals from Mount Vernon Shops.

 

The release announcements for the
above products will be made on this email group/list as they are added to my website
and product line.

 

To check out everything that’s
been going on, plus any previous products, you can go here:http://www.mountvernonshops.com/

 

For any questions regarding these
or any of my other projects, please contact me through my website (OFFLIST). However, I would encourage constructive
discussion of any of my projects on this list. It’s only through criticism that
I can make improvements that are good for everybody in the modeling community.

 

Thanks and Happy Modeling!

 

John Frantz

 

Owner,

Mount Vernon
Shops

York,
PA

Specializing in Products for the Prototype Modeler!


Re: OMI two dome tank car

Tom Birkett <tnbirke@...>
 

Apparently at one time, steam coils were thought to be necessary in services
where we wouldn't even consider them today.

The first pressure cars, Class V, purchased by Phillips Petroleum Co. (PSPX
10001-10003) came from Standard Tank Car in 1927 equipped with steam coils.
I can't imagine butane or propane needing to be heated for unloading in any
place south of the Arctic Circle.

As for the OMI car, although pretty small, a two compartment lube oil car
with coils is not unthinkable.

Thomas N. Birkett, PE

Southwestern Tank Line, LLC

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
moonmuln
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 9:27 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: OMI two dome tank car


Re: OMI two dome tank car

Jack Mullen
 

--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

As I said originally, the car is really too big to be a wine
car. At the time I made that suggestion, really only intended as
speculation, the heater coils hadn't been mentioned, and as Richard
says, the mind boggles to think of wine which could either withstand
or NEED heater coils.
C'mon Tony,

Obviously, the steam coils are for mulling in transit.

Jack Mullen


Re: NP Monad

Gene <bierglaeser@...>
 

Thanks to both Aaron G. & Richard H. for the NP Monad and slogan information. I'll have to review all the information you two gentlemen so kindly provided once or twice more before it is all understood.

I was looking for NP box cars suitable for September 1950 since, as has been pointed out on this forum, every train has at least one NP box car or words to that effect.

Gene Green

--- In STMFC@..., "Aaron Gjermundson" <npin53@...> wrote:

Just checked my information on NP heralds and slogans, and what I have is this regarding dates.

First use of "Mainstreet" slogan;

Brainerd built cars 25000-25999 in October of 1947.
4/4 Ends, SQ panel roof, Superior doors.


First use of 60" Monad;

Brainerd built cars 24000-24499 in November of 1951.
4/3/1 Ends, Diagonal panel roof, built with straight sill length of car.


If anyone had additional information, please share.

Aaron


Re: Athearn conversion

gary laakso
 

If my recollection is correct, Mainline Modeler ages ago had an article on upgrading these cars.

gary laakso
south of Mike Brock

----- Original Message -----
From: Tim O'Connor
To: STMFC@...
Sent: 7/1/2011 8:03:49 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Athearn conversion




Since no one pointed it out explicitly, I'll add that the model
works better for an NP car than for the GN car -- the NP car was
more or less a double sheathed 1937 AAR box car, but the GN car
was not. As Tony pointed out this is most noticeable where the
end meets the sides.

Although the Accurail steel box car underframe is a bit too modern
for the Athearn box cars, it does fit the Athearn models (with a tiny
bit of help) and it looks great.

On the other hand, if you strip the mirrored appliances from the
Athearn underframe, and build the floor correctly with the floorboards
visible underneath (instead of hidden inside the car) then you can
paint the floorboards prior to adding the underframe and this really
looks great when you combine it with a fully detailed underframe.
Just detail and paint the underframe separately.

Tim O'Connor

----------------------------------------------------

The most noticeable differences of the Athearn model from the
prototype are the "notch" where the sides meet the ends, and the
visible ends of the steel framing along the side sill. You don't
explicitly mention either one. And I hope you plan to fit the car with
correct-height doors and remove the immense Athearn ledge which serves
as a bottom door track for their underheight door. And of course you
will be fixing the mirror-image brake arrangement . . .
Tony Thompson




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: NP Monad

npin53
 

Just checked my information on NP heralds and slogans, and what I have is this regarding dates.

First use of "Mainstreet" slogan;

Brainerd built cars 25000-25999 in October of 1947.
4/4 Ends, SQ panel roof, Superior doors.


First use of 60" Monad;

Brainerd built cars 24000-24499 in November of 1951.
4/3/1 Ends, Diagonal panel roof, built with straight sill length of car.


If anyone had additional information, please share.

Aaron


Re: Walthers Wood Reefers (HO Scale)

Tim O'Connor
 

http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/932-60851
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/932-60853
Does anyone know the origin of these models? Are they from the Train Miniature
line that Walthers purchased?
Bob

Yes they are T-M. No, they are not accurate. Not even close. Urf.

The PFE lettering and emblem look way, way off to me. Even Sunshine had
trouble doing good PFE lettering.

But if you really like them, I have quite a few from my Dad's collection
here and you can have them for 1/4 of what Walthers is asking. And they're
RTR. :-)

Tim O'Connor


Re: Athearn conversion

Tim O'Connor
 

Since no one pointed it out explicitly, I'll add that the model
works better for an NP car than for the GN car -- the NP car was
more or less a double sheathed 1937 AAR box car, but the GN car
was not. As Tony pointed out this is most noticeable where the
end meets the sides.

Although the Accurail steel box car underframe is a bit too modern
for the Athearn box cars, it does fit the Athearn models (with a tiny
bit of help) and it looks great.

On the other hand, if you strip the mirrored appliances from the
Athearn underframe, and build the floor correctly with the floorboards
visible underneath (instead of hidden inside the car) then you can
paint the floorboards prior to adding the underframe and this really
looks great when you combine it with a fully detailed underframe.
Just detail and paint the underframe separately.

Tim O'Connor


----------------------------------------------------

The most noticeable differences of the Athearn model from the
prototype are the "notch" where the sides meet the ends, and the
visible ends of the steel framing along the side sill. You don't
explicitly mention either one. And I hope you plan to fit the car with
correct-height doors and remove the immense Athearn ledge which serves
as a bottom door track for their underheight door. And of course you
will be fixing the mirror-image brake arrangement . . .
Tony Thompson


Re: Athearn conversion

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Clark Propst wrote:
I plan on having a notch at the corners, even if I have to file the edges of the ends. Yes, I have correct height doors and the door track is already shaved off. I plan on using a different underframe, not the correct underframe, but a different one.
Sounds good, Clark! Tony


Re: Athearn conversion

Clark Propst
 

Tony,
I plan on having a notch at the corners, even if I have to file the edges of the ends.
Yes, I have correct height doors and the door track is already shaved off.
I plan on using a different underframe, not the correct underframe, but a different one.
More later,
Clark Propst

--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

The most noticeable differences of the Athearn model from the
prototype are the "notch" where the sides meet the ends, and the
visible ends of the steel framing along the side sill. You don't
explicitly mention either one. And I hope you plan to fit the car with
correct-height doors and remove the immense Athearn ledge which serves
as a bottom door track for their underheight door. And of course you
will be fixing the mirror-image brake arrangement . . .

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Athearn conversion

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Clark Propst wrote:
Athrean made/makes a model similar to the GN steel cars with wood sides. I have one survivor in a drawer. Stan Rydarowicz gave me some IM 4/5 or 5/4 ends, Murphy roofs (I know RCs are better), running boards. I have doors and Champ decals. So, I thought "What the heck"! Took me about 15 mins to cut a side off the Athearn car and scrap off the ladder and grabs. I used styrene strip to fill the top door rail slot. That's all I had time for today. I have a Sunshine car to use for comparison.
The most noticeable differences of the Athearn model from the prototype are the "notch" where the sides meet the ends, and the visible ends of the steel framing along the side sill. You don't explicitly mention either one. And I hope you plan to fit the car with correct-height doors and remove the immense Athearn ledge which serves as a bottom door track for their underheight door. And of course you will be fixing the mirror-image brake arrangement . . .

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Walthers Wood Reefers (HO Scale)

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Richard Hendrickson wrote:
I'll let others comment on the PFE version, but I can tell you that the Santa Fe car's lettering looks okay, however Walthers only shows one side of the car; on the prototype cars, the other side got the system map, not the Grand Canyon slogan, and though one assumes that the R&D people at Walthers know that, other manufacturers have produced models with slogans (or maps) on both sides before, so there are no guarantees.
I think your fear is justified, Richard. The PFE car artwork shows an SP emblem, and the caption says, "UP Overland opposite side." The fact that the SFRD artwork caption doesn't mention the other side is worrying.
Back a number of years, Walthers did this PFE scheme with SP emblems on both sides (no doubt way cheaper), so one can certainly say they have a history in this area <g>.
I haven't gone to the layout to measure my old Walthers wood reefer, but my recollection is that it's kind of low in height relative to PFE photos. Others may wish to chime in on dimensions.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Athearn conversion

Scott Pitzer
 

It doesn't help anyone working with "one survivor," but I sacrificed a second body to get pieces of its side sections with siding (and other) detail which I could put in place of middle section with the cast-on monster door tracks and the undetailed plastic below them.
With some 4/5 ends from my very brief period of resin casting, and doors cut up and re-jiggered from a source I don't remember, it came out looking "a lot better than the original Athearn."
Scott Pitzer

--- In STMFC@..., Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...> wrote:

Clark Propst wrote:
"Athearn made/makes a model similar to the GN steel cars with wood sides. I have

one survivor in a drawer. Stan Rydarowicz gave me some IM 4/5 or 5/4 ends,
Murphy roofs (I know RCs are better), running boards. I have doors and Champ
decals. So, I thought "What the heck"! Took me about 15 mins to cut a side off
the Athearn car and scrap off the ladder and grabs. I used styrene strip to fill

the top door rail slot. That's all I had time for today. I have a Sunshine car
to use for comparison.

This model will be what it is...
I'm curious to know if anyone else has tried a bash using this Athearn model?"


Re: Walthers Wood Reefers (HO Scale)

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jul 1, 2011, at 1:49 PM, Bob C wrote:

I see Walthers is advertising new paint schemes and road numbers
for their HO scale forty-foot double-sheathed wood reefers with
wood ends and roofs. These cars will be available in February 2012.

These include one Santa Fe reefer and one PFE reefer. Here are the
links:

http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/932-60851

http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/932-60853

Does anyone know the origin of these models? Are they from the
Train Miniature line that Walthers purchased?

Anyone care to comment on the accuracy of the bodies, paint schemes
and road numbers for these cars?
Bob, it's hard to say anything useful about these models since
Walthers only shows representations of the artwork, no photos of the
models themselves.

I'll let others comment on the PFE version, but I can tell you that
the Santa Fe car's lettering looks okay, however Walthers only shows
one side of the car; on the prototype cars, the other side got the
system map, not the Grand Canyon slogan, and though one assumes that
the R&D people at Walthers know that, other manufacturers have
produced models with slogans (or maps) on both sides before, so there
are no guarantees. Assuming it has a map on the other side, the
question then is which map? The car is shown as being reweighed in
5-40, and that's about the time the original curved-line maps
introduced in 1-40 were replaced by the first version of the straight
line map, which lasted only two or three months before being replaced
by a second version with the word "Ship" added. Unless Walthers got
advice from a very knowledgeable Santa Fe historian, there's a strong
likelihood that they got it wrong.

Even more important, the Santa Fe car is lettered to represent an
Rr-11, and these were steel-framed wood sheathed cars of unique
design with ARA steel underframes and notched corners where the ends
met the sides. They were rendered even more unique by the fact that,
by the time the slogans and maps were adopted in 1940, almost all of
them had received replacement steel roofs of rectangular panel Murphy
design. So it's highly unlikely that the Walthers models are
anywhere even close to being accurate representations of the Santa Fe
prototype cars.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Athearn conversion

Benjamin Hom
 

Clark Propst wrote:
"Athearn made/makes a model similar to the GN steel cars with wood sides. I have

one survivor in a drawer. Stan Rydarowicz gave me some IM 4/5 or 5/4 ends,
Murphy roofs (I know RCs are better), running boards. I have doors and Champ
decals. So, I thought "What the heck"! Took me about 15 mins to cut a side off
the Athearn car and scrap off the ladder and grabs. I used styrene strip to fill

the top door rail slot. That's all I had time for today. I have a Sunshine car
to use for comparison.

This model will be what it is...
I'm curious to know if anyone else has tried a bash using this Athearn model?"

Sure.  Todd Sullivan did an NP conversion in Protofile 2 in the February 1979
issue
of RMC; Mont Switzer did a kitbash in the January 1990 issue of Mainline
Modeler.
We did a couple of GN NP conversions for the NEB&W back in the 1990s following
these articles.


Ben Hom