Date   

Re: Dished Tank Head

soolinehistory <destorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Dave Nelson" <Lake_Muskoka@...> wrote:


a) where the dish ends and the knuckle radius begins,
Ron hasn't replied, but what I take away from his message is that, while the head is one piece of steel, it has three distinct features:

The flange. The bend that turns the flange ninety degrees from the axis of the plate, called the knuckle. The dish that pushes the center of the plate out and gives it more resistance to bending under load. Each of the three would have been dimensioned separately, although maybe not on a general arrangement drawing such as what you are looking at, so the dish dimension refers only to the area past the knuckle bends.

Dennis


Re: Oil extraction

Douglas Harding
 

Clark are you referring to the photos of UTLX 56816 being unloaded on the
M&StL at Marietta MN in June 1954? The photo shows two tank cars next to a
grain elevator, and the Pacific Grain Co coal sheds in the distance, with
hoses connected to a trailer, then to a tank truck next to the trailer. If
so, the photos were taken by Vern Wigfield, and show the transfer of oil
used to control dust on gravel roads. Not sure about 1954, but in later
years road oil was often used motor oil. Not a consistency that would need
steam to make it flow.



Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org


Re: FGE lettering change

Staffan Ehnbom <staffan.ehnbom@...>
 

I have an FGE lettering arrangement drawing for swinging door cars dated 6-8-59 showing sans serif lettering.

Staffan Ehnbom

----- Original Message -----
From: lnbill
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 1:19 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: FGE lettering change



Tim's information surprises me. My research had shown this change occurred in about 1960.

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:
>
>
> I think the first use of the plain (not Optic) lettering was
> on RBNX insulated box cars in 1959 -- for example, RBNX 81123,
> stencilled "AX 12-59". The earliest use I've seen on FGEX reefers
> is in 1961. I've seen photos of freshly painted/repainted reefers
> in 1958 with Optic lettering.
>
> So I totally agree with Richard, if you model prior to 1960 all
> of your FGE reefers can have the Optic lettering as far as I know.
>
> Tim O'Connor
>
>
>
>
> >I thought that someone who is more of an expert on FGE and its
> >affiliates than I am would respond to this, but apparently no one did
> >(or posted it off-list). So I took a quick look through my photo
> >collection, and the earliest date I could find for the later
> >lettering style was ca. 1960. I think you can confidently assume
> >that in 1959-60, many, if not all, FGEX cars still had the earlier
> >Optic block lettering.
> >
> >Richard Hendrickson
>


Re: FGE lettering change

Bill Welch
 

Tim's information surprises me. My research had shown this change occurred in about 1960.

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


I think the first use of the plain (not Optic) lettering was
on RBNX insulated box cars in 1959 -- for example, RBNX 81123,
stencilled "AX 12-59". The earliest use I've seen on FGEX reefers
is in 1961. I've seen photos of freshly painted/repainted reefers
in 1958 with Optic lettering.

So I totally agree with Richard, if you model prior to 1960 all
of your FGE reefers can have the Optic lettering as far as I know.

Tim O'Connor




I thought that someone who is more of an expert on FGE and its
affiliates than I am would respond to this, but apparently no one did
(or posted it off-list). So I took a quick look through my photo
collection, and the earliest date I could find for the later
lettering style was ca. 1960. I think you can confidently assume
that in 1959-60, many, if not all, FGEX cars still had the earlier
Optic block lettering.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Ventilated Box Cars

Todd Horton
 

Dale,  I know the CofG vent cars are in short supply.

Keep in mind they had the roof changed around 1930 or so.  Todd Horton




________________________________
From: Dave Evans <devans1@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sun, February 6, 2011 11:56:27 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Ventilated Box Cars

 
--- In STMFC@..., LOUIS WHITELEY <octoraro1@...> wrote:

Sunshine Models offers several versions of the ACL O-17 ventilated box car
(Kits

35.1 - 35.6); a C&WC O-13 (#35.7) and a C&WC O-18 (#35.8).

Lou Whiteley
Lawrenceville, NJ
Gentlemen,

Many thanks for the responses. I have found the CofG historical order page - it
shows the ventilators as still available.

I also found the Sunshine ACL vent flyers - I was looking at the wrong pages on
Jim Hayes web site. The ACL cars were on Sunshine's 2009 price list, but when I
saw Martin on Saturday he said he hoped to produce an updated product
availability list this spring. I hope the ACL cars are still on it.

Between the CofG, ACL, and SAL cars available, that should give me a good start,
and 2 of the 3 are 36 footers, which helps with the 36/40 WWII fleet balance.

Thank-you all,
Dave Evans







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Ventilated Box Cars

devansprr
 

--- In STMFC@..., LOUIS WHITELEY <octoraro1@...> wrote:

Sunshine Models offers several versions of the ACL O-17 ventilated box car (Kits
35.1 - 35.6); a C&WC O-13 (#35.7) and a C&WC O-18 (#35.8).

Lou Whiteley
Lawrenceville, NJ
Gentlemen,

Many thanks for the responses. I have found the CofG historical order page - it shows the ventilators as still available.

I also found the Sunshine ACL vent flyers - I was looking at the wrong pages on Jim Hayes web site. The ACL cars were on Sunshine's 2009 price list, but when I saw Martin on Saturday he said he hoped to produce an updated product availability list this spring. I hope the ACL cars are still on it.

Between the CofG, ACL, and SAL cars available, that should give me a good start, and 2 of the 3 are 36 footers, which helps with the 36/40 WWII fleet balance.

Thank-you all,
Dave Evans


Re: FGE lettering change

Tim O'Connor
 

I think the first use of the plain (not Optic) lettering was
on RBNX insulated box cars in 1959 -- for example, RBNX 81123,
stencilled "AX 12-59". The earliest use I've seen on FGEX reefers
is in 1961. I've seen photos of freshly painted/repainted reefers
in 1958 with Optic lettering.

So I totally agree with Richard, if you model prior to 1960 all
of your FGE reefers can have the Optic lettering as far as I know.

Tim O'Connor

I thought that someone who is more of an expert on FGE and its
affiliates than I am would respond to this, but apparently no one did
(or posted it off-list). So I took a quick look through my photo
collection, and the earliest date I could find for the later
lettering style was ca. 1960. I think you can confidently assume
that in 1959-60, many, if not all, FGEX cars still had the earlier
Optic block lettering.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: FGE lettering change

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Feb 3, 2011, at 10:01 AM, mopacfirst wrote:

Spillover from something I saw on another list, but more
appropriate here:

When did FGE change the lettering style on reefers from Optic block
serif to the curvier sans-serif lettering? And more to the point,
what's the likelihood of some or a few cars still carrying the
older lettering in about 1959-60?
I thought that someone who is more of an expert on FGE and its
affiliates than I am would respond to this, but apparently no one did
(or posted it off-list). So I took a quick look through my photo
collection, and the earliest date I could find for the later
lettering style was ca. 1960. I think you can confidently assume
that in 1959-60, many, if not all, FGEX cars still had the earlier
Optic block lettering.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Oil extraction

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Ed Mines wrote:
Did steam locos burn crude?
Actually it's interesting to see the early history of SP and Santa Fe locomotive fuels. Both railroads did burn crude oil for a few years. But there are many components in crude far more valuable than the value of locomotive fuel, and little by little, lower and lower fractions became assigned as locomotive fuel. By 1910 there was already a "locomotive fuel" category, not yet as low as Bunker C but already a remainder fraction.
For those who don't know, the terminology of Bunkers A, B and C came from fuels for ships. Obviously C was the bottom of the list, a very viscous material that could not naturally flow freely except on the hottest days. Steam locomotives used steam connections and piping in the tender to preheat the oil for flow to the firebox.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Dished Tank Head

Dave Nelson
 

Rod, sounds like you know this stuff already but it's new to me. Let me
paraphrase, using your terms, what I'm understanding here... tell me if I
got it right:

WRT the first point on the 6" distance. Most likely this is a point on the
inside of the head where it has been pressed furthest (most probably the
centerline of the tank cylinder) . The second point, following that
centerline, lies on a point on the circular plane parallel to the end of
cylinder of the tank / perpendicular to its sides...

a) where the dish ends and the knuckle radius begins, or, moving a bit
closer to the tank itself...
b) where the knuckle radius ends and the straight flange begins, or moving
right to...
c) where the original end of the tank cylinder is found.

On reading your comments I thought the point in question could be (b) but
is most likely (a) where the dish begins to turn into the knuckle radius,
if, for no other reason, your use of the word knuckle was describing a
different thing than what you described when you used the word dish. (c)
doesn't make as much sense to use in context of the actual operation to
press the dish itself so it is rejected.

Is my conclusion -- most likely (a) -- your best understanding as well?

Dave Nelson

p.s. I did use google before my first post... too many product offerings, no
explanations I could follow, plus being attacked by one of those phony
you've-got-a-virus scams. Good 'ol STMFC!

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
mopacfirst
Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 2:35 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Dished Tank Head

While I can't speak for a hundred years ago, here's how it works now and
would have already been by the fifties, probably earlier.

The 'other' point, actually a line, you are looking for is the tangent.
That's where the different curves of a head meet the cylinder (shell).
There are plenty of head manufacturers around now, so it's easily Googled.
The term 'dished' really means that the head, proper, has a curve to it, as
opposed to a flat head with a transition curve to the tangent like some of
those marine boilers that were written about in this group a year or two
ago.

There are many common contours, and many common radii to the dish part, with
common ones being around the same as the diameter or the shell up to 2x the
diameter of the shell. As this number gets larger, the head gets flatter.
Then one has to know the knuckle radius. The knuckle is the transition
curve from the dish radius to the straight flange (flat cylindrical surface
beyond the tangent point), which is where the attachment to the shell takes
place. Now, with butt welding, the straight flange only needs to be about
2" or so long but with riveting it was undoubtedly longer.

Your 6" dimension actually describes the curve pretty well -- you just have
to estimate the knuckle radius and do a little curve fitting. Obviously,
the larger the tank shell diameter the flatter the head will be if the
height is constant. Note that, if the head is 1/2" to 1" in thickness, it
makes relatively little difference whether this is measured to outside or
inside but tank guys now usually care only about the ID.

Ron Merrick


Re: Ventilated Box Cars

SUVCWORR@...
 

Central Valley also had a ventilated boxcar wood kit.

Rich Orr

-----Original Message-----
From: RUTLANDRS@...
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sun, Feb 6, 2011 4:33 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Ventilated Box Cars


Dave,

I believe that Ambroid did a ventilated kit, in both O and HO.

Chuck Hladik





In a message dated 2/6/2011 4:28:17 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

devans1@... writes:









All,



The retirement of the Westerfields, along with Wright Trak's new offering,

has forced me to examine the VM, VA, and VS populations during WWII as

part of attempting to build a "balanced" fleet.



I want to avoid the "fleet balancing" debate, but would like to inquire as

to the available ventilator models in HO.



It appears the Westerfield 40' model, based on a USRA DS box car (Kit

#7000 series), another Westerfield FEC 40' (kit #6300 series) that was no

longer in service as a VA car by WWII, and the Wright Trak model are the only

options available today?



Looking at the F&C web site, they list a transition FEC VA (kit 6410), but

the photo looks like the vents are not in the kit. An old Walthers catalog

lists kit 6400, but it is not on F&C's web site (suspect it is because

6400 was a flat kit, and 6410 is a one-piece body kit). This car is a little

problematic for fleet building since this car was a small fleet (200 cars

total, with less than a third of them still listed as VA in 1943 - the rest

were converted to type XI)



I do not have references to the SAL class V9 car, but the number on the

Wright Trak literature (28156) corresponds with a 36' car in the '43 ORER (in

fact in '43 all SAL VA's are listed with IL between 35'9" and 36'1"), but

I have not seen the length of the Wright Trak kit listed anywhere.



The '43 ORER recapitulation lists the following:



10,292 VA/VM under 40', the vast majority being within a few inches of 36'

IL.



3,325 40' VA/VM, with 82% of those being registered under CofG (100 under

C&O, the balance ACD, which I think is the Westerfield 7000 series car)



A quick look at the "Post-war" fleet book suggests that each Road's

ventilator class had some distinctive door related feature - either the vents,

or

the door tracks - which seem to vary greatly, along with the usual

distinctions of side sill style/visibility and underbody/center sills, so I am

not

sure the Wright Trak will be very "bashful" to fill the gaps in other

roads.



Is there now, or has there in the past, been any other VA/VM models

offered in HO?



Once again more 36' foot cars may be missing from my WWII fleet - I would

like to get to a point where visitors report they are surprised at the

number of 36' cars in the fleet - rather than exclaim - "what is that short

car" when one of only a few 36' cars passes by.



Trying to figure out how to fill this gap. As an alternative, confirmation

of the gap is also welcome.



Many Thanks,

Dave Evans



















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Re: Ventilated Box Cars

Ray Breyer
 

Don't forget the Con-Cor O-17. It might not be the most highly detailed ventilated car in the world, but it IS the most readily available.

And there's always scratchbuilding. DS boxcars aren't the hardest things in the world to scratch, and the "new" Trains.com magazine index shows plans for various ACL, CofG, C&O, FEC, RDG, and Wabash cars. There are also a couple of plans for ventilated cars in the CBDs on Google Books.

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL

--- On Sun, 2/6/11, RUTLANDRS@... <RUTLANDRS@...> wrote:

From: RUTLANDRS@... <RUTLANDRS@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Ventilated Box Cars
To: STMFC@...
Date: Sunday, February 6, 2011, 3:33 PM
Dave,
    I believe that Ambroid did a  ventilated
kit, in both O and HO.
Chuck Hladik


In a message dated 2/6/2011 4:28:17 P.M. Eastern Standard
Time, 
devans1@...
writes:




All,

The retirement of the Westerfields, along with Wright
Trak's  new offering,
has forced me to examine the VM, VA, and VS populations
during  WWII as
part of attempting to build a "balanced" fleet.

I want to avoid  the "fleet balancing" debate, but
would like to inquire as
to the available  ventilator models in HO.

It appears the Westerfield 40' model, based on  a USRA
DS box car (Kit
#7000 series), another Westerfield FEC 40' (kit #6300 
series) that was no
longer in service as a VA car by WWII, and the Wright
Trak  model are the only
options available today?

Looking at the F&C web  site, they list a
transition FEC VA (kit 6410), but
the photo looks like the  vents are not in the kit. An
old Walthers catalog
lists kit 6400, but it is  not on F&C's web site
(suspect it is because
6400 was a flat kit, and 6410  is a one-piece body
kit). This car is a little
problematic for fleet building  since this car was a
small fleet (200 cars
total, with less than a third of  them still listed as
VA in 1943 - the rest
were converted to type XI)

I  do not have references to the SAL class V9 car, but
the number on the
Wright  Trak literature (28156) corresponds with a 36'
car in the '43 ORER (in
fact in  '43 all SAL VA's are listed with IL between
35'9" and 36'1"), but
I have not  seen the length of the Wright Trak kit
listed anywhere.

The '43 ORER  recapitulation lists the following:

10,292 VA/VM under 40', the vast  majority being
within a few inches of 36'
IL.

3,325 40' VA/VM, with 82%  of those being registered
under CofG (100 under
C&O, the balance ACD,  which I think is the
Westerfield 7000 series car)

A quick look at the  "Post-war" fleet book suggests
that each Road's
ventilator class had some  distinctive door related
feature - either the vents, or
the door tracks -  which seem to vary greatly, along
with the usual
distinctions of side sill  style/visibility and
underbody/center sills, so I am not
sure the Wright Trak  will be very "bashful" to fill
the gaps in other
roads.

Is there now,  or has there in the past, been any
other VA/VM models
offered in HO? 

Once again more 36' foot cars may be missing from my WWII
fleet - I  would
like to get to a point where visitors report they are
surprised at the 
number of 36' cars in the fleet - rather than exclaim -
"what is that short 
car" when one of only a few 36' cars passes by.

Trying to figure out  how to fill this gap. As an
alternative, confirmation
of the gap is also  welcome.

Many Thanks,
Dave Evans









------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


    STMFC-fullfeatured@...



Re: Dished Tank Head

mopacfirst
 

While I can't speak for a hundred years ago, here's how it works now and would have already been by the fifties, probably earlier.

The 'other' point, actually a line, you are looking for is the tangent. That's where the different curves of a head meet the cylinder (shell). There are plenty of head manufacturers around now, so it's easily Googled. The term 'dished' really means that the head, proper, has a curve to it, as opposed to a flat head with a transition curve to the tangent like some of those marine boilers that were written about in this group a year or two ago.

There are many common contours, and many common radii to the dish part, with common ones being around the same as the diameter or the shell up to 2x the diameter of the shell. As this number gets larger, the head gets flatter. Then one has to know the knuckle radius. The knuckle is the transition curve from the dish radius to the straight flange (flat cylindrical surface beyond the tangent point), which is where the attachment to the shell takes place. Now, with butt welding, the straight flange only needs to be about 2" or so long but with riveting it was undoubtedly longer.

Your 6" dimension actually describes the curve pretty well -- you just have to estimate the knuckle radius and do a little curve fitting. Obviously, the larger the tank shell diameter the flatter the head will be if the height is constant. Note that, if the head is 1/2" to 1" in thickness, it makes relatively little difference whether this is measured to outside or inside but tank guys now usually care only about the ID.

Ron Merrick

--- In STMFC@..., "Dave Nelson" <Lake_Muskoka@...> wrote:

I'm building a cad model of a UTLX type V tank car per the drawings found on
page 344 of the 1906 CBD. I have a question about the term "Dish" as it
relates to the tank head. I hope some of you guys can help define **an
aspect of the term** that I don't understand.



It is apparent to me that "dish" refers to some how far the metal has been
pressed so as to form the tank head - afterall, looking at the pressed steel
from the inside of the tankcar, it would look like a dish. My question is,
when the drawing says a 6" dish, that dimension is between two points. One
is obviously in reference to the furthest point out that the steel has been
pressed - but 6" from what relative to the anything else? And is that 6"
dish measured to the inside or outside of the head?



Looking at photos, what I see is the car end is a solid sheet of steel,
after being pressed into a dish, retains some distance of metal that slides
tightly into the tank, for use in riveting end to tank. That is to say,
extending beyond the dish itself is a steel cylinder, marginally more narrow
than the tank itself. A small portion of this inserted cylinder remains
exposed, just outside the end of the tank. This cylinder begins to curve
inwards, oh, on perhaps a 1 inch radius and then takes on the outlines of
the dish.



So. is the 6" dish relative to the end of the car, the end of the cylinder
where that 1" radius curve begins, or right where the dish form begins?



Yeah, I know. some of you HO scale guys are going "you gotta be kidding me,
right?". Nope. It's getting the model done correctly.



Can anyone help me out here? Ummm, I think I should also ask, anyone know
of where I might find a more complete drawing(s) for anything of this car?
I'm also wanting to do the X-3 design after this one.



Thanks in advance!



Dave Nelson



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Dished Tank Head

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Feb 6, 2011, at 1:07 PM, Tom Birkett wrote:

Remember that as you are looking at a photo of a Class V car that you
are looking at the jacket head and not the tank head. The shape of the
tank head is "semi-ellipsoidal" in general but the 1930 American
Railroad Association "Specification for Tank Cars" under "ICC-105A300"
states that "the tank head shall be an ellipsoid of revolution in
which
the major axis shall equal the diameter of the shell and the minor
axis
shall be on-half of this." I think this is enough information to
answer
your question. I'd have to pull out some old math books in order to
write the equation for the tank head.
Tom, You've inadvertently provided a helpful answer to a completely
different question. You are referring to the AAR class V, for
insulated high-pressure tanks. Dave was asking about Union Tank
Line's class V cars, their designation for the early 20th century Van
Dyke frameless cars.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Oil extraction

Cyril Durrenberger
 

Actually during the early years of oil burning, many oil fired engines did burn crude oil.

The bunker C (aka residual or #6 fuel oil) usually has to be heated for it to flow.

Cyril Durrenberger

--- On Sun, 2/6/11, Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...> wrote:

From: Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Oil extraction
To: STMFC@...
Date: Sunday, February 6, 2011, 12:28 PM







 









Ed Mines asked:

"Did steam locos burn crude?"



No.  While Bunker C appears to be crude oil at first look, it is actually the

heavier residue left behind after lighter fuels (gasoline, kerosene, diesel

fuel) have been distilled away.



Ben Hom




















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Ventilated Box Cars

LOUIS WHITELEY <octoraro1@...>
 

Sunshine Models offers several versions of the ACL O-17 ventilated box car (Kits
35.1 - 35.6); a C&WC O-13 (#35.7) and a C&WC O-18 (#35.8).

Lou Whiteley
Lawrenceville, NJ



________________________________
From: Dave Evans <devans1@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sun, February 6, 2011 4:06:56 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Ventilated Box Cars

 
All,

The retirement of the Westerfields, along with Wright Trak's new offering, has
forced me to examine the VM, VA, and VS populations during WWII as part of
attempting to build a "balanced" fleet.

I want to avoid the "fleet balancing" debate, but would like to inquire as to
the available ventilator models in HO.

It appears the Westerfield 40' model, based on a USRA DS box car (Kit #7000
series), another Westerfield FEC 40' (kit #6300 series) that was no longer in
service as a VA car by WWII, and the Wright Trak model are the only options
available today?


Looking at the F&C web site, they list a transition FEC VA (kit 6410), but the
photo looks like the vents are not in the kit. An old Walthers catalog lists kit
6400, but it is not on F&C's web site (suspect it is because 6400 was a flat
kit, and 6410 is a one-piece body kit). This car is a little problematic for
fleet building since this car was a small fleet (200 cars total, with less than
a third of them still listed as VA in 1943 - the rest were converted to type XI)

I do not have references to the SAL class V9 car, but the number on the Wright
Trak literature (28156) corresponds with a 36' car in the '43 ORER (in fact in
'43 all SAL VA's are listed with IL between 35'9" and 36'1"), but I have not
seen the length of the Wright Trak kit listed anywhere.

The '43 ORER recapitulation lists the following:

10,292 VA/VM under 40', the vast majority being within a few inches of 36' IL.

3,325 40' VA/VM, with 82% of those being registered under CofG (100 under C&O,
the balance ACD, which I think is the Westerfield 7000 series car)

A quick look at the "Post-war" fleet book suggests that each Road's ventilator
class had some distinctive door related feature - either the vents, or the door
tracks - which seem to vary greatly, along with the usual distinctions of side
sill style/visibility and underbody/center sills, so I am not sure the Wright
Trak will be very "bashful" to fill the gaps in other roads.

Is there now, or has there in the past, been any other VA/VM models offered in
HO?


Once again more 36' foot cars may be missing from my WWII fleet - I would like
to get to a point where visitors report they are surprised at the number of 36'
cars in the fleet - rather than exclaim - "what is that short car" when one of
only a few 36' cars passes by.

Trying to figure out how to fill this gap. As an alternative, confirmation of
the gap is also welcome.

Many Thanks,
Dave Evans


Re: Ventilated Box Cars

seaboard_1966
 

Dave

The Central of Georgia Railroad Historical Society had or has a couple of vent car kits available. They were done for them by Jim King of Smoky Mountain Model Works who also who did the pattern work for the coming WrightTRAK car. Sunshine did an acl car as well.

Denis Blake
North Hamlet Shops, OH



2011 Central Ohio Prototype Modelers Meet, May 19-21

http://www.facebook.com/pages/manage/#!/pages/Central-Ohio-Prototype-Modelers-Meet/326645470797

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Evans
Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 4:06 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Ventilated Box Cars

All,

The retirement of the Westerfields, along with Wright Trak's new offering, has forced me to examine the VM, VA, and VS populations during WWII as part of attempting to build a "balanced" fleet.

I want to avoid the "fleet balancing" debate, but would like to inquire as to the available ventilator models in HO.

It appears the Westerfield 40' model, based on a USRA DS box car (Kit #7000 series), another Westerfield FEC 40' (kit #6300 series) that was no longer in service as a VA car by WWII, and the Wright Trak model are the only options available today?

Looking at the F&C web site, they list a transition FEC VA (kit 6410), but the photo looks like the vents are not in the kit. An old Walthers catalog lists kit 6400, but it is not on F&C's web site (suspect it is because 6400 was a flat kit, and 6410 is a one-piece body kit). This car is a little problematic for fleet building since this car was a small fleet (200 cars total, with less than a third of them still listed as VA in 1943 - the rest were converted to type XI)

I do not have references to the SAL class V9 car, but the number on the Wright Trak literature (28156) corresponds with a 36' car in the '43 ORER (in fact in '43 all SAL VA's are listed with IL between 35'9" and 36'1"), but I have not seen the length of the Wright Trak kit listed anywhere.

The '43 ORER recapitulation lists the following:

10,292 VA/VM under 40', the vast majority being within a few inches of 36' IL.

3,325 40' VA/VM, with 82% of those being registered under CofG (100 under C&O, the balance ACD, which I think is the Westerfield 7000 series car)

A quick look at the "Post-war" fleet book suggests that each Road's ventilator class had some distinctive door related feature - either the vents, or the door tracks - which seem to vary greatly, along with the usual distinctions of side sill style/visibility and underbody/center sills, so I am not sure the Wright Trak will be very "bashful" to fill the gaps in other roads.

Is there now, or has there in the past, been any other VA/VM models offered in HO?

Once again more 36' foot cars may be missing from my WWII fleet - I would like to get to a point where visitors report they are surprised at the number of 36' cars in the fleet - rather than exclaim - "what is that short car" when one of only a few 36' cars passes by.

Trying to figure out how to fill this gap. As an alternative, confirmation of the gap is also welcome.

Many Thanks,
Dave Evans




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Re: Oil extraction

Clark Propst
 

Ed the cars I'm talking about, I believe, were carrying asphalt. The steam went into the car's internal heating coils.

Clark Propst


The oil was crude, right?

Did steam locos burn crude?

Ed Mines


Re: Dished Tank Head

Tom Birkett <tnbirke@...>
 

Dave

Remember that as you are looking at a photo of a Class V car that you
are looking at the jacket head and not the tank head. The shape of the
tank head is "semi-ellipsoidal" in general but the 1930 American
Railroad Association "Specification for Tank Cars" under "ICC-105A300"
states that "the tank head shall be an ellipsoid of revolution in which
the major axis shall equal the diameter of the shell and the minor axis
shall be on-half of this." I think this is enough information to answer
your question. I'd have to pull out some old math books in order to
write the equation for the tank head.

The lagging is to be 4" between the exterior of the tank and the
interior of the jacket. The jacket is specified as 1/8" thick.

Tom





I'm building a cad model of a UTLX type V tank car per the drawings
found on
page 344 of the 1906 CBD. I have a question about the term "Dish" as it
relates to the tank head. I hope some of you guys can help define **an
aspect of the term** that I don't understand.

It is apparent to me that "dish" refers to some how far the metal has
been
pressed so as to form the tank head - afterall, looking at the pressed
steel
from the inside of the tankcar, it would look like a dish. My question
is,
when the drawing says a 6" dish, that dimension is between two points.
One
is obviously in reference to the furthest point out that the steel has
been
pressed - but 6" from what relative to the anything else? And is that 6"
dish measured to the inside or outside of the head?

Looking at photos, what I see is the car end is a solid sheet of steel,
after being pressed into a dish, retains some distance of metal that
slides
tightly into the tank, for use in riveting end to tank. That is to say,
extending beyond the dish itself is a steel cylinder, marginally more
narrow
than the tank itself. A small portion of this inserted cylinder remains
exposed, just outside the end of the tank. This cylinder begins to curve
inwards, oh, on perhaps a 1 inch radius and then takes on the outlines
of
the dish.

So. is the 6" dish relative to the end of the car, the end of the
cylinder
where that 1" radius curve begins, or right where the dish form begins?

Yeah, I know. some of you HO scale guys are going "you gotta be kidding
me,
right?". Nope. It's getting the model done correctly.

Can anyone help me out here? Ummm, I think I should also ask, anyone
know
of where I might find a more complete drawing(s) for anything of this
car?
I'm also wanting to do the X-3 design after this one.

Thanks in advance!

Dave Nelson


Ventilated Box Cars

devansprr
 

All,

The retirement of the Westerfields, along with Wright Trak's new offering, has forced me to examine the VM, VA, and VS populations during WWII as part of attempting to build a "balanced" fleet.

I want to avoid the "fleet balancing" debate, but would like to inquire as to the available ventilator models in HO.

It appears the Westerfield 40' model, based on a USRA DS box car (Kit #7000 series), another Westerfield FEC 40' (kit #6300 series) that was no longer in service as a VA car by WWII, and the Wright Trak model are the only options available today?

Looking at the F&C web site, they list a transition FEC VA (kit 6410), but the photo looks like the vents are not in the kit. An old Walthers catalog lists kit 6400, but it is not on F&C's web site (suspect it is because 6400 was a flat kit, and 6410 is a one-piece body kit). This car is a little problematic for fleet building since this car was a small fleet (200 cars total, with less than a third of them still listed as VA in 1943 - the rest were converted to type XI)

I do not have references to the SAL class V9 car, but the number on the Wright Trak literature (28156) corresponds with a 36' car in the '43 ORER (in fact in '43 all SAL VA's are listed with IL between 35'9" and 36'1"), but I have not seen the length of the Wright Trak kit listed anywhere.

The '43 ORER recapitulation lists the following:

10,292 VA/VM under 40', the vast majority being within a few inches of 36' IL.

3,325 40' VA/VM, with 82% of those being registered under CofG (100 under C&O, the balance ACD, which I think is the Westerfield 7000 series car)

A quick look at the "Post-war" fleet book suggests that each Road's ventilator class had some distinctive door related feature - either the vents, or the door tracks - which seem to vary greatly, along with the usual distinctions of side sill style/visibility and underbody/center sills, so I am not sure the Wright Trak will be very "bashful" to fill the gaps in other roads.

Is there now, or has there in the past, been any other VA/VM models offered in HO?

Once again more 36' foot cars may be missing from my WWII fleet - I would like to get to a point where visitors report they are surprised at the number of 36' cars in the fleet - rather than exclaim - "what is that short car" when one of only a few 36' cars passes by.

Trying to figure out how to fill this gap. As an alternative, confirmation of the gap is also welcome.

Many Thanks,
Dave Evans

98441 - 98460 of 195610