Date   

Railroaders

Al and Patricia Westerfield <westerfield@...>
 

I don't know how many have seen this film about the men who maintain CPR track in winter in the Rockies circa 1958. It's not only stunning but quite informative. http://www.nfb.ca/film/railroaders - Al Westerfield


Re: Equipment Instructions for freight cars (UNCLASSIFIED)

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Gatwood, Elden wrote:
By when I was a teenager, some of the older furnaces had their refractory deteriorated to the point that USS made the decision to produce ferro, not regular hot metal, in some of the furnaces.
This can't be the right story, Elden. Refractories deteriorate all the time and are replaced in any furnace, even blast furnaces. The furnaces might have been too old or too small to continue making steel, and were converted to other use.
Ferroalloys are normally made by specialty producers, and steel companies USE the ferroalloy. Why USS would get into that business isn't clear to me. Can you tell us more, like which ferroalloys they produced?

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: B&O wagontop

Bryan Busséy
 

I don't know Andy. But you pretty much just identified all of the
reasons why separate undecorated parts aren't likely to happen. I think
that, in the interim, if a model is offered undec/assembled and is not
glued together, it's better to have that than no undecorated parts at
all. I'm in N scale exclusively, and I can tell you that I am more than
pleased that Atlas releases undecs of all their models when a new
release hits the market. I don't mind disassembling the model to get
the parts. It starts getting pricey when including Kato locomotives for
example, but at least they are available.

The market just isn't there to support a "separate" product line of
undecorated parts. I think the compromise of having
undecorated/assembled models available to dissect as we please is a fair
one.

__
bb


On 2/2/2011 12:30 PM, Andy Harman wrote:

On Wed, 02 Feb 2011 12:21:24 -0500, Bryan Busséy wrote
It's a problem in the regard that new packaging would be required,
which
would also mean minimums come into play because it's a "new" assembly
procedure. It's actually less expensive to have them assembled and
packaged in the same packaging as the decorated cars, unfortunately.
Yes, no doubt about that. But to answer Bill's question... would you
pay *more* for an
undecorated, unassembled model? To the RTR customer, it makes no
sense, but to us - a
few extra bucks for clean, unglued, unpainted parts could be a time
AND money saver in
the long run. I know that the kit market is not a profit center for
styrene
manufacturers anymore. But what would it take to break even, and would
we be willing to
meet them halfway? I know that at times kit parts are available "under
the table", but
it should be slightly easier than having to know somebody or having an
inside
connection. Walthers probably wouldn't touch it, although they still
offer limited
undecs of their own stuff at times.

I know it can't be justified in the comptroller's office. But how
important are
modelers in the larger scheme of things? If we're too small of a
market segment to
bother with, why talk to us at all? I know if I were to contribute my
own R&D time to a
product, I'd be pretty irked if I couldn't get it in undec kit form.
In fact, I'd
probably selfishly insist on an under the table supply of kit parts
from the
beginning... to cover my own needs - and I'd pay for them.

I'm just saying... we all know about China and production and shipping
and packaging and
SKUs and all that. We still want kits and parts anyway. So what can be
done?

Andy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: B&O wagontop

Andy Harman
 

On Wed, 02 Feb 2011 12:21:24 -0500, Bryan Buss�y wrote
It's a problem in the regard that new packaging would be required, which
would also mean minimums come into play because it's a "new" assembly
procedure. It's actually less expensive to have them assembled and
packaged in the same packaging as the decorated cars, unfortunately.
Yes, no doubt about that. But to answer Bill's question... would you pay *more* for an
undecorated, unassembled model? To the RTR customer, it makes no sense, but to us - a
few extra bucks for clean, unglued, unpainted parts could be a time AND money saver in
the long run. I know that the kit market is not a profit center for styrene
manufacturers anymore. But what would it take to break even, and would we be willing to
meet them halfway? I know that at times kit parts are available "under the table", but
it should be slightly easier than having to know somebody or having an inside
connection. Walthers probably wouldn't touch it, although they still offer limited
undecs of their own stuff at times.

I know it can't be justified in the comptroller's office. But how important are
modelers in the larger scheme of things? If we're too small of a market segment to
bother with, why talk to us at all? I know if I were to contribute my own R&D time to a
product, I'd be pretty irked if I couldn't get it in undec kit form. In fact, I'd
probably selfishly insist on an under the table supply of kit parts from the
beginning... to cover my own needs - and I'd pay for them.

I'm just saying... we all know about China and production and shipping and packaging and
SKUs and all that. We still want kits and parts anyway. So what can be done?

Andy


Re: Index of freight car photos in RP Cycs for Hawkins/Wider

Randy Hammill
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Gene" <bierglaeser@...> wrote:

For my own purposes I have indexed the freight car photos in the first
21 RP Cycs. 2423 entries.

Please contact me off list at bierglaeser at yahoo dot com if you are
interested in learning more or receiving a copy. Be prepared to discuss
file format. I will only send as email attachment. No CDs in the mail.

Gene Green

Thanks to Gene's work and generosity, he's given me permission to start
to combine this list with some work I've been doing to identify relevent
models to match published photos. My 'lists' consist of post-it notes
throughout my books, some spreadsheets, and some already on my website.

I've added information to the spreadsheet from Focus on Freight Cars
Volume One and will add The Postwar Freight Car Fleet tonight. I have
not added model information for RP CYC yet either.

You can access the spreadsheet here:

https://sites.google.com/a/the-hammills.com/newbritainstation/resources
<https://sites.google.com/a/the-hammills.com/newbritainstation/resources\;
Note that this is my new site, still under construction so the URL is
temporary (probably a month or two). The final address will be the same
as my 'old' site - http://newbritainstation.com/resources
<http://newbritainstation.com/resources>

Feel free to send me any comments, corrections, etc at nhrr [at]
the-hammills.com

Randy Hammill

http://newbritainstation.com <http://newbritainstation.com>


Re: B&O wagontop

Andy Harman
 

On Wed, 2 Feb 2011 12:02:43 -0500, Bill Schneider wrote
The best solution from a manufacturers view IMO, is a mix of the two [UTF-8?]– a
[UTF-8?]“semi-assembled� model. For example, assembled frame and brake gear but
ladders, grabs, etc (things that would get on the way of paint and decals)
being left off and packaged inside the car body where possible. This would
allow use of the standard clamshell, but still protect the parts during
shipping. However, I doubt that this is what you are looking for.....
Well no, I'd be happy just to get the sprues in a takeout bag. I don't know what the
practice is regarding spare parts, but I imagine the most cost effective thing to do for
warranty repairs is just make extras and send the customer a whole new model. Yeah,
Athearn's clamshell packaging is ill-suited to cram kit parts into, but at least they're
trying. Personally if I never saw another sleeve box, ever, I'd be quite happy. You
don't need a custom molded clamshell to hold kits, just a generic 2-piece cardboard box.
Just like Branchline. It doesn't even need to be pretty or printed. Don't even need
the compartment notch for the lug nut weights. Plain white and I suppose you have to
slap a barcode SKU label on it. Nothing else needed. I would say you could even skip
the tissue paper if there is no paint and lettering to protect. Not asking for
decorated kits - I accept that that genre is dead.

Tooling today is better than ever - and you guys at Rapido have some of the best of the
best. But it's like having a super sports car that I can only drive on a pre-programmed
slot car track and can't open the hood. There has to be some way to do this. It used
to be considered impossible to offer these highly detailed models in *assembled* form,
now it's done all the time.

As to paying extra for a kit - I would. Before you say most wouldn't, keep in mind that
right now we're often buying RTR models and carefully stripping them and knocking them
apart, and raise your and if you've done this just to swipe one or two parts for another
project. I've done it with locomotives, I've done it with passenger cars, and the only
reason I haven't done it with freight cars is because I'm not that advanced of a freight
car modeler. Yet.

And don't think I'm not buying RTR... I am, a lot. If and when they're done right. But
I have an A list and a B list in my brain, and regardless of tooling, regardless of
price - the difference between the A list and B list is the presence or absence of undec
kits.

Andy


Re: B&O wagontop

Bryan Busséy
 

Tim,

It's a problem in the regard that new packaging would be required, which
would also mean minimums come into play because it's a "new" assembly
procedure. It's actually less expensive to have them assembled and
packaged in the same packaging as the decorated cars, unfortunately.

__
bb

On 2/2/2011 3:04 AM, Tim O'Connor wrote:


I spoke to the vendor at Springfield about undecs -- he said that if
he could figure out how to pack them the parts without damage then he
would sell undecs. (I didn't ask why this was a problem.) Otherwise he
said he would only sell built-up undecs.

I didn't get a warm and fuzzy feeling about FVM. Just me, I guess.

Tim O'Connor

If Fox Valley offers an Undec, Speedwitch has a very nice decal set
designed
just for the wagontop,
Jim Hayes


Re: B&O wagontop

Bill Schneider
 

I know I’m going to regret this.... ;>)

It’s not a strange thing at all to say Andy.

Here’s some of the issues with some rough numbers.

The Chinese factories are very good at designing clamshell packaging to cradle an assembled model... we’ve all seen the lovely little clear plastic holders that they come in these days. These clamshells are designed specifically to minimize movement of the model during transport and maximize protection from impacts. Because of this they are designed to tightly cradle the model and allow very little extra space around the model inside of the box.

Now, to pack an undec kit, you need to find a place to put all of those extra sprues of parts. Also, because many of the major components (trucks for example) would not be installed on the model if shipped as a kit, the standard RTR packaging will not normally work. (Before you say it again, I know that Athearn does this – I have two of their milk car kits, both with broken parts...)

The solution of course is easy as any STMFC’er will tell you. Just make new packaging.

The tooling for that new plastic blister could cost as much as $1500.00 or more, depending on complexity of the shape. How many undecorated kits will we sell? 250... maybe? That’s $6.00 PER KIT extra cost for packaging. So, even of we were to just directly pass this cost on, I doubt that many would pay $6.00 MORE for a kit.

Now, the argument will be made that undec kits have less labor than assembled models, and thus less cost. That is of course true. But believe it or not the difference is not that much. Offsetting any cost savings is the additional costs charged by the factories for “special handling” for a relatively small number of undec kits that they treat as a a special stand-alone project because they do not neatly fit into the production line scheme of the regular RTR production.

The best solution from a manufacturers view IMO, is a mix of the two – a “semi-assembled” model. For example, assembled frame and brake gear but ladders, grabs, etc (things that would get on the way of paint and decals) being left off and packaged inside the car body where possible. This would allow use of the standard clamshell, but still protect the parts during shipping. However, I doubt that this is what you are looking for.....

Bill Schneider

From: Andy Harman
Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2011 11:11 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] B&O wagontop


On Wed, 02 Feb 2011 03:04:47 -0500, Tim O'Connor wrote
I spoke to the vendor at Springfield about undecs -- he said that if
he could figure out how to pack them the parts without damage then he
would sell undecs. (I didn't ask why this was a problem.) Otherwise he
said he would only sell built-up undecs.
Strange thing to say. Strange thing to sell. Seems like it's a lot harder to pack and
protect an assembled model than a kit. And what's the point in selling undecorated
assembled models? At least box cars don't have glass they can pre-glue into the undec
car. I think that it's easier to get the factory in China to produce them for the same
style packaging as the RTR, which means they have to be assembled. But Athearn manages
to ship undecorated kits in their RTR boxes. Strange, but it beats not having them at all.

I understand that RTR is more profitable, and sells more. But the turning up of the
nose at kit requests is getting old. Many of these companies now selling and justifying
RTR only are run (or at least founded by) modelers who should know better. There's
nothing quite so irritating as being told by a modeler I respect and admire that I don't
need to build a model, the Chinese can do it better so I should just shut up and buy it.

Andy


1940-1943 PULPWOOD rack cars Southern?

Bushnell.mp77 Account
 

My "holy grail" today is information related to any pulpwood rack cars that might have been in Western NC from 1940-1943 (or earlier).

Photos and info seem to be scarcer than hen's teeth.

I know that some of the SU box cars were converted to pulp service (I've got some photos of these on the A&D a few years after my dates ) but finding photos of cars in service in Western NC and what cars were actually out there is the specific search. (I'm modeling the Murphy Branch.) Since Canton, NC had a mill that was a huge consumer of pulp I know they were out there.

I'm hoping some member of this group has run across photos and or drawings.

Of course an interesting question might be as anyone use the Westerfield SU car and bashed it into the pulpwood rack car. Seems like the hard way to do it. I'm curious (if you did this) as to how you "modified" the interior of the Hutchins ends too.

At this juncture I'm looking for all leads that anyone might offer- even info on pulpwood rack from the same period (1940-1943) or earlier on other SE roads because I doubt if Southern was "inventing the wheel."

Reply on or off-list.

Gordon Andrews

--
The human brain is like a railroad freight car -- guaranteed to have a certain capacity but often running empty.�


Re: B&O wagontop

Andy Harman
 

On Wed, 02 Feb 2011 03:04:47 -0500, Tim O'Connor wrote
I spoke to the vendor at Springfield about undecs -- he said that if
he could figure out how to pack them the parts without damage then he
would sell undecs. (I didn't ask why this was a problem.) Otherwise he
said he would only sell built-up undecs.
Strange thing to say. Strange thing to sell. Seems like it's a lot harder to pack and
protect an assembled model than a kit. And what's the point in selling undecorated
assembled models? At least box cars don't have glass they can pre-glue into the undec
car. I think that it's easier to get the factory in China to produce them for the same
style packaging as the RTR, which means they have to be assembled. But Athearn manages
to ship undecorated kits in their RTR boxes. Strange, but it beats not having them at all.

I understand that RTR is more profitable, and sells more. But the turning up of the
nose at kit requests is getting old. Many of these companies now selling and justifying
RTR only are run (or at least founded by) modelers who should know better. There's
nothing quite so irritating as being told by a modeler I respect and admire that I don't
need to build a model, the Chinese can do it better so I should just shut up and buy it.

Andy


Re: Resin kits on eBay

Garth G. Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Friends,

While I haven't had any problems ordering train items from Great Britain, they still do offer sea mail as the least expensive alternative. I sometimes order archery supplies from England, and had one package of target arrow points that was rerouted to sea mail after I paid the vendor to ship by air. Delivery took about three months. My package arrived with an orange sticker courtesy of Her Majesty's Post that said, "Contains weapons or parts of weapons. Route by sea mail." Sheesh!

Kind regards,


Garth Groff

On 2/2/2011 10:46 AM, Bernd Schroeder wrote:
fwiw, I also get regularly shipments by first class to Germany. After
numerous bad and expensive encounters with UPS, DHL, FedEx I use USPS
exclusively...

Bernd

----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Bogie"<robertb@...>
To:<STMFC@...>
Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2011 4:38 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Resin kits on eBay


Hi Rich,

I also believe Dave is right on this. The USPS web site doesn't show any
change on this. First Class International can still be used for small
parcels under 4 pounds. I have two shipments using this rate on their way
to me now and they were sent in January. I will also be ordering some
Westerfield freight car kits very shortly to be sent the same way. This is
the way that Al sends his foreign shipments, so it will be intereting to
see what happens. Incidentally, Parcel post is not listed as a category
and that delivery time of 2-3 months sounds like the old surface mail
delivery time. The USPS discontinued surface mail some time ago and now
all mail sent from the US is by air.

http://www.usps.com/international/sendpackages.htm
http://www.usps.com/international/airmailinternational.htm

Regards,

Robert Bogie


ADMIN: Warning. Ebay Thread Terminated

mike brock <brockm@...>
 

Warning, Warning, Warning.

The subject about Ebay, the USPS, UPS and any other service involved in the transportation of anything NOT occuring in the time period of the STMFC has been determined to be out of scope and this thread has been terminated. You now send messages associated with this terminated thread at your own risk. Now, I realize that food may be scarce but I don't recommend that you take up residence in Moderate Jail just for the food. Hmmm. Come to think of it, we haven't sent any food down there in months...

Mike Brock
STMFC Head Judge...jingling the key to Moderate Jail


Re: Resin kits on eBay

Bernd Schroeder
 

fwiw, I also get regularly shipments by first class to Germany. After numerous bad and expensive encounters with UPS, DHL, FedEx I use USPS exclusively...

Bernd

----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Bogie" <robertb@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2011 4:38 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Resin kits on eBay


Hi Rich,

I also believe Dave is right on this. The USPS web site doesn't show any change on this. First Class International can still be used for small parcels under 4 pounds. I have two shipments using this rate on their way to me now and they were sent in January. I will also be ordering some Westerfield freight car kits very shortly to be sent the same way. This is the way that Al sends his foreign shipments, so it will be intereting to see what happens. Incidentally, Parcel post is not listed as a category and that delivery time of 2-3 months sounds like the old surface mail delivery time. The USPS discontinued surface mail some time ago and now all mail sent from the US is by air.

http://www.usps.com/international/sendpackages.htm
http://www.usps.com/international/airmailinternational.htm

Regards,

Robert Bogie


Re: Resin kits on eBay

robertb@smartchat.net.au
 

Hi Rich,

I also believe Dave is right on this. The USPS web site doesn't show any change on this. First Class International can still be used for small parcels under 4 pounds. I have two shipments using this rate on their way to me now and they were sent in January. I will also be ordering some Westerfield freight car kits very shortly to be sent the same way. This is the way that Al sends his foreign shipments, so it will be intereting to see what happens. Incidentally, Parcel post is not listed as a category and that delivery time of 2-3 months sounds like the old surface mail delivery time. The USPS discontinued surface mail some time ago and now all mail sent from the US is by air.

http://www.usps.com/international/sendpackages.htm
http://www.usps.com/international/airmailinternational.htm

Regards,

Robert Bogie

----- Original Message -----
From: North Model Railroad Supplies
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 1:35 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Resin kits on eBay



Get use to it. The USPS changed their regulations. Cars can no longer be
legally sent as 1st class mail. They are merchandise not a letter. They must
be sent parcel post ( 2 - 3 months deliver time) or International Priority
mail $30 - $40. Unless you want International Express mail which will be
close to $50 if not more.
Rich Orr

Hi Rich,

I may be misreading the website, but First Class Mail International still
shows as available for boxes or parcels to Australia (haven't checked other
countries) if you supply your own box and it weighs under 4 pounds. And that
would be well over the boxed weight of most HO freight cars given that the
car would in most cases weight under 10 ounces.

It is not available when using the "flat rate service" option but is when
you "select a shape".

Even when you choose "select a shape" USPS promote their more profitable
(expensive) options and you have to click on Priority Mail International
Options or First Class Mail International Options, but they are still there
on the website.

As dealers, all our orders from the US come Priority Mail International, as
our orders are all well over 4 lbs plus they are insured and tracked, but
the uninsured, untracked option still appears to be offered, provided you
use your own box.

And if you think mailing TO Australia is expensive, you want to mail
something FROM Australia to the US. It makes the USPS rate look like a good
deal.

Cheers

Dave North

North Model Railroad Supplies

Sydney

Australia


Re: Resin kits on eBay

robertb@smartchat.net.au
 

Hi Tony,

You raised an interesting point here and I did some research this afternoon on this to find out more info. I rang Australia Post to ask about how who set the rates for international shipping and they definately said it was the sending country. They had no control over what the USPS would charge.

It does seem unlikely that Australia Post would have sufficient influence to control what rate the USPS would charge. Although I would suspect they are well aware of what each other are charging and also each one must get a portion of what is charged. Otherwise one country would be doing the actual final delivery free to the receiver once an item lands on its shores. Can't see that happening in this day and age.

I think that we won't ever get a complete answer on this question, as these matters will all be tied up in the International Postal Union agreements and will be regarded as commercial information.

Regards,

Robert Bogie

----- Original Message -----
From: Anthony Thompson
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2011 12:21 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Resin kits on eBay



Robert Bogie wrote:
> For example, before the USPS came up with this shipping rate and
> also started massively increasing its rates, normal Airmail to
> Australia where I live has always taken 7 to 9 days . . . The USPS
> must be making a killing from this and from those people who are
> none the wiser.

I may be wrong about this, Robert, but it's my understanding
that overseas mail rates everywhere are controlled by the RECEIVING
country. Australia has long been among the most expensive countries to
mail to, as we know well with numerous book sales to Australia. OTOH,
Europe and much of Asia and even South Africa are cheaper (mailing
from California). We have always been told by USPS people that these
foreign rates are set by the countries in question, not by USPS.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Index of freight car photos in RP Cycs for Hawkins/Wider

ronald parisi
 

Dear Gene:

I would love to receive a copy of your RPC cycs....I have been "indexing" my
model railroad magazines for articles I am interested in and haven't
touched my hard won set of RPC's,so this will be helpful. Of course like
most of us I should live long enough to prototype model my rolling stock....

Would prefer PDF's but excel would work.

Thanks

Ron Parisi

On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 7:43 PM, Gene <bierglaeser@...> wrote:



For my own purposes I have indexed the freight car photos in the first 21
RP Cycs. 2423 entries.

Please contact me off list at bierglaeser at yahoo dot com if you are
interested in learning more or receiving a copy. Be prepared to discuss file
format. I will only send as email attachment. No CDs in the mail.

Gene Green



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Resin kits on eBay

North Model Railroad Supplies <nmrs@...>
 

Get use to it. The USPS changed their regulations. Cars can no longer be
legally sent as 1st class mail. They are merchandise not a letter. They must
be sent parcel post ( 2 - 3 months deliver time) or International Priority
mail $30 - $40. Unless you want International Express mail which will be
close to $50 if not more.
Rich Orr



Hi Rich,

I may be misreading the website, but First Class Mail International still
shows as available for boxes or parcels to Australia (haven't checked other
countries) if you supply your own box and it weighs under 4 pounds. And that
would be well over the boxed weight of most HO freight cars given that the
car would in most cases weight under 10 ounces.

It is not available when using the "flat rate service" option but is when
you "select a shape".

Even when you choose "select a shape" USPS promote their more profitable
(expensive) options and you have to click on Priority Mail International
Options or First Class Mail International Options, but they are still there
on the website.

As dealers, all our orders from the US come Priority Mail International, as
our orders are all well over 4 lbs plus they are insured and tracked, but
the uninsured, untracked option still appears to be offered, provided you
use your own box.

And if you think mailing TO Australia is expensive, you want to mail
something FROM Australia to the US. It makes the USPS rate look like a good
deal.

Cheers

Dave North

North Model Railroad Supplies

Sydney

Australia


Re: Resin kits on eBay

Patrick Wilkinson <glgpat@...>
 

There are (2) issues you need to understand about Ebay if you don't sell
there on a regular basis.



1. According to Ebay's rules it is the seller's responsibility to
ensure that the package arrives safely-which to most of us means we are
paying for insurance on anything we ship. I have had the issue where I used
priority mail to ship something but did not buy the tracking or the
insurance and the package didn't show up. After 3 months I had to refund the
money to the guy and I was out the Priority Mail cost as well. 3 months
later the guy emails me that his package just arrived postmarked 6 months
ago. So now everything goes out with insurance on it.

2. The USPS has done away with a lot of the cheaper options and all
you can get from them are the higher priced flat rate boxes. They just had
another price increase January 1st.

3. I know it's expensive to ship overseas but the options are hope it
doesn't get lost and trust that both people are honest. I have no problem
trusting most people but if my package with $100 worth of freight cars goes
over the side of the boat into the North Atlantic or gets lost in a winter
storm . . .



I am tired of someone else's lack of attention to their job costing me
money. I think shipping is way too expensive also but what are your other
options-mold the kit yourself?



Pat Wilkinson


Re: Equipment Instructions for freight cars (UNCLASSIFIED)

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

I love hearing this stuff, Mark. I grew up listening to guys talk about the
"mills". I knew some Dads and Uncles that worked the furnaces and open
hearths, and wish I had asked more about some of the details.

One guy told me about "mud guns", and I forgot to ask what kind of clay they
used in them, and how they processed it. I had asked many questions later
about it, and was told the furnaces also used additives like calcium carbide,
dolomite, fluorspar ("spar"), and of course lots of limestone, in addition to
the ore and coke, which I have not seen modeled much.

The OHs', electric furnaces and BOP/BOFs used chromium, cobalt, manganese,
molybdenum, nickel, soda ash (sodium carbonate), and scrap, also not modeled
as loads very much.

The whole refractory end of this is also interesting. I saw box cars loaded
with pallets of brick in the plants. I have done two box car models with
doors open and pallets of brick inside for my model plant.

By when I was a teenager, some of the older furnaces had their refractory
deteriorated to the point that USS made the decision to produce ferro, not
regular hot metal, in some of the furnaces. They shipped the ferro in in
mostly old two-bay hoppers, with a partial load because I guess it was heavy.
I have tried to model a couple of those guys.

One thing I remember was hopper doors held shut with wooden frames jammed
between the bays, I guess because they didn't want to risk the doors
accidentally opening, with such a valuable load. I am not sure what it was,
but these foreign ores may have been costly. Has anyone modeled this?

It is all very interesting to try and model the actual application of these
to loads, but also to try and model the effects of this service on models.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Mark
Morgan
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 7:29 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Equipment Instructions for freight cars
(UNCLASSIFIED)



Hello, Tony
Mansfield, Ohio 1914 started from Davey family(Mansfield Sheet and Tin
Plate Co) Seven Open- hearth furnaces in the original plant with a floor wide
for pushers and railroad cars. The gondolas carried lime, fusite and etc.
Crane would pull them to the floor and shovel the load in a box or furnace.
Tacky said he hated them because they were hard to open. Under that floor was
a furnaces tunnels and pipes, further north they unloaded boxcars of brick
and refractory supplies.
Wish had pictures from that old time. Now that building is storage and brick
mason area. I remember all those tracks and it was something to see. This
plant was not near a river! Two railroads were was on each side of our plant.
B&O and PRR The PRR supplied the coal for the boiler plant along with sharing
switching with the B&O.
I shoveled out some gondolas back in the seventies. Started May 31, 1977.
Two EAF furnaces are in our plant. #8 and #9, I operate number nine, she puts
out 135 tons every two hours.
Might be too much but thought someone might like this.Mark Morgan

--- On Tue, 2/1/11, Anthony Thompson <thompson@...
<mailto:thompson%40signaturepress.com> > wrote:

From: Anthony Thompson <thompson@...
<mailto:thompson%40signaturepress.com> >
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Equipment Instructions for freight cars
(UNCLASSIFIED)
To: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Date: Tuesday, February 1, 2011, 1:31 PM



Mark Morgan wrote:

Elden is correct. I work at a steel mill and years ago received
alloys and additives by rail. Those containers in gons were not
liked. The bno had hoppers with colored(orange) ends for ferro
manganese.
How many years ago, Mark? Things changed greatly from, say, the

early 1950s to the early 1960s as far as cargoes in covered hoppers.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA

2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com

(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
<mailto:thompson%40signaturepress.com>

Publishers of books on railroad history

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE


Re: Resin kits on eBay

Barrybennetttoo@...
 

Nothing falls off the side of a boat, I am assured, as it all goes by air.

Barry Bennett

98481 - 98500 of 195443