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Re: Question on brakes on rebuilt SF Door and half automobile car
Richard Hendrickson
On Jun 15, 2011, at 6:36 PM, Bob McCarthy wrote:
Richard,Ah, now I know that what you're talking about is an Fe-P class car originally built with 1-1/2 steel plate doors. Many of these cars were rebuilt in the early 1930s as Fe-T class with 12' double doors and Evans double deck auto racks. A decade later, the auto racks were removed and the cars reverted to the Fe-P class. In 1950 300 cars had their auxiliary doors secured shut and were reclassified Bx-56. Later in 1950, another 200 were converted to single door cars with 6' doors; their auxiliary doors were removed and their sectional sheathing extended, and they were reclassified Bx-58. I have photos of all four versions which I'll send you off list. The books on various types of Santa Fe freight cars published by the Santa Fe Railway Historical and Modeling Society are by far the best sources for prototype data and photos. See the Society's web site for those that are currently in print: <http://www.atsfrr.com/>. John Dobyne's book on box cars is still available, as are reprints of the refrigerator car book that several of us collaborated on, and there are also books on tank cars, automobile and furniture cars, open top cars, etc. Richard Hendrickson |
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Re: Boston Library
al_brown03
The two to the right of the phone pole are also vents, of course, and they look physically similar to the SAL car just *left* of the pole. They lack the herald, or it's covered in soot, and the right-most one's reporting marks appear to be Seaboard again.
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Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla. --- In STMFC@..., Glen Mills <mills.glen@...> wrote:
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Re: Question on brakes on rebuilt SF Door and half automobile car
Bob McCarthy
Richard,
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Sorry, should have said it is a 40' door and a half a boxcar with 5/5/3 steel ends and panels between what look like channel stock. It also has a series of parallel strips on each panel. It also came as a double door boxcar and was later rebuilt after WWII into a single door car (door width unknown to me) Plan to build three versions. A door and half, double door and single door version. Plan to have Jerry Glow use any images of each of these cars to produce better decals than the 1971 version that came with the kit. Also, could you suggest available SF reference books for 1920-1953 freight cars. Thanks, Bob McCarthy --- On Thu, 6/16/11, Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...> wrote:
From: Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...> Subject: Re: [STMFC] Question on brakes on rebuilt SF Door and half automobile car To: STMFC@... Date: Thursday, June 16, 2011, 1:15 AM On Jun 15, 2011, at 4:20 PM, Bob McCarthy wrote: Good evening! Am currently building in S a 1971 KINSMAN SF boxcar which has no series number. Since, I am about to put AB brakes upon the underside representing the car as un-rebuilt from a door standpoint, but updated with the AB brake system, I need assistance from some SF knowledgeable folks.. My question is essentially whether the car would have had the brake staff replaced with the gear box and wheel in approximately the same area as the old brake platform? Hopefully, some of you SF experts will be able to send me a post WW II image of this car along with the double door version and the single door version. Bob, I can't answer your question until I know which class of Santa Fe 1-1/2 door auto cars the Kinsman model represents, as there were several classes, and whether it is a 40' or 50' car. Some cars of both lengths were of double wood sheathed construction, some were sectional wood sheathed with the vertical side posts visible between the sheathing panels. Once I know the car that the model is intended to represent, I can probably provide a prototype photo or two. It would also help to know the date your modeling is intended to represent. Richard Hendrickson [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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Re: decals
Schuyler Larrabee
The lettering for early motive power for the Chesapeake System (the
fictional railroad at the North Shore Model Railroad Club, which mostly hauls freight cars, often with steam locomotives in our "Classic Era" sessions) was lettered with Champ individual name decals. I called Champ, and got Rich Meyer on the phone, and asked him for the name of the typeface he used for those words. He blurted it out, and immediately said "Well, it's BASED on that font, but it isn't it." He then went on at some extreme length about how he didn't want me to go looking for that font and it wouldn't do for me to spread it around, blah, blah, blah, to the degree that I was convinced that he'd let the feline out of the reticule. Do I remember? Of course not! SGL A.T. Kott wrote: Back in the early 1980's, Bill Clouser told me that Champ "RandThe term "artwork" is misleading. Rich Meyer admitted that MOST sets from Champ were from the "Railroad Roman" lettering he used. Unless he inherited it from Max Gray, I don't see an "artwork" issue, nor any way individual letters could be modified unless it was done in all sets which used that typeface. Of course there were railroad emblems and sometimes distinctive railroad lettering, but certainly not in every case. BTW, fiddling with letters to get a "better" appearance is what typographers have done since the invention of printing. I am not at all sure that this is "Rand McNallying." There would be far easier ways to detect copying, Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... <mailto:thompson%40signaturepress.com> Publishers of books on railroad history ======= Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. (Email Guard: 7.0.0.21, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.17710) http://www.pctools.com <http://www.pctools.com/?cclick=EmailFooterClean_51> ======= ======= Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. (Email Guard: 7.0.0.21, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.17720) http://www.pctools.com/ ======= |
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Re: Question on brakes on rebuilt SF Door and half automobile car
Richard Hendrickson
On Jun 15, 2011, at 4:20 PM, Bob McCarthy wrote:
Good evening!Bob, I can't answer your question until I know which class of Santa Fe 1-1/2 door auto cars the Kinsman model represents, as there were several classes, and whether it is a 40' or 50' car. Some cars of both lengths were of double wood sheathed construction, some were sectional wood sheathed with the vertical side posts visible between the sheathing panels. Once I know the car that the model is intended to represent, I can probably provide a prototype photo or two. It would also help to know the date your modeling is intended to represent. Richard Hendrickson |
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Re: Boston Library
Schuyler Larrabee
Glen, this is one of the aggravating things about this process that the BPL
is doing with photos. They don't seem to know where things are, nor when. I have seen some photos in which there are political electioneering signs which date a photo within a six month bracket, and they do not go so far as to "approximate" a date for them Nor do they know where things are. They say that the photos have all the information on the glassine sleeves they came in, but I find that somewhat hard to believe. I also know that if I sit with a bunch of native Boston area guys (and I am not one), they can ID many of the locations. I can do so with some of them, for instance there are a number of shots that show a locomotive which has crashed into a stone station. I am about 99% sure that is the Stoughton MA station. Someone with a bit of research could probably be 100% sure. But they do not go to that extra measure of information. All that said, I >>>>>>THINK<<<<<< that photo is somewhere on the north side of Boston, within what is now Route 128 (known to non-Bostonians as I-95). SGL Hello, What about the two cars just right of the telephone pole? Seriously, I may have missed it, but where is the photograph taken? Regards, Glen Mills 4a. Boston Library <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/message/100925;_ylc=X3oDMTJzNWQwM3RyBF9 TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzI1NTQ3NTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MTY5NzI1BG1zZ0lkAzEwMDkyNQR zZWMDZG1zZwRzbGsDdm1zZwRzdGltZQMxMzA4MTM3MzM2> Posted by: "Mark M" bnonut@... <mailto:bnonut%40yahoo.com> <bnonut@... <mailto:bnonut%40yahoo.com> ?Subject=+Re%3A%20Boston%20Library> bnonut <http://profiles.yahoo.com/bnonut> Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:15 am (PDT) Very interesting freight car shot, many PRR but look toward the rear!!! Mark Morgan PS Grandpa now http://www.flickr.com/photos/boston_public_library/5786323249/sizes/o/in/pho tostream/ Back to top <https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2 <https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&ik=ede6685c03&view=lg&msg=130931072060f2 01#130931072060f201_toc> &ik=ede6685c03&view=lg&msg=130931072060f201#130931072060f201_toc> Reply to sender <bnonut@... <mailto:bnonut%40yahoo.com> ?Subject=Re%3A%20Boston%20Library>| Reply to group <STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> ?Subject=+Re%3A%20Boston%20Library>| Reply via web post <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJzc2Q0MjhhBF9TAzk3MzU5N zE1BGdycElkAzI1NTQ3NTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MTY5NzI1BG1zZ0lkAzEwMDkyNQRzZWMDZG1zZ wRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMzA4MTM3MzM2?act=reply <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJzc2Q0MjhhBF9TAzk3MzU5N zE1BGdycElkAzI1NTQ3NTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MTY5NzI1BG1zZ0lkAzEwMDkyNQRzZWMDZG1zZ wRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMzA4MTM3MzM2?act=reply&messageNum=100925> &messageNum=100925> Messages in this topic <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/message/100925;_ylc=X3oDMTM5aDVsc2wyBF9 TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzI1NTQ3NTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MTY5NzI1BG1zZ0lkAzEwMDkyNQR zZWMDZG1zZwRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMzA4MTM3MzM2BHRwY0lkAzEwMDkyNQ-->(2) 4b. Re: Boston Library <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/message/100926;_ylc=X3oDMTJzYTAyNWZyBF9 TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzI1NTQ3NTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MTY5NzI1BG1zZ0lkAzEwMDkyNgR zZWMDZG1zZwRzbGsDdm1zZwRzdGltZQMxMzA4MTM3MzM2> Posted by: "John Degnan" Scaler164@... <mailto:Scaler164%40comcast.net> <Scaler164@... <mailto:Scaler164%40comcast.net> ?Subject=+Re%3A%20Boston%20Library> scaler164 <http://profiles.yahoo.com/scaler164> Wed Jun 15, 2011 4:28 am (PDT) Is that a SAL "vent" box I see off in the distance... just barely left of the telephone pole? John Degnan Scaler164@... <mailto:Scaler164%40comcast.net> ======= Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. (Email Guard: 7.0.0.21, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.17720) http://www.pctools.com <http://www.pctools.com/?cclick=EmailFooterClean_51> ======= ======= Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. (Email Guard: 7.0.0.21, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.17720) http://www.pctools.com/ ======= |
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Re: Wabash S/S Box Car Roadname Lettering Question
Thanks Chet. Now I wonder if any of the automobile cars that were not converted were used in LCL service? I think Kalmbach's first 1950s special issue has a color photo of one of these Wabash cars being unloaded at a road crossing and taken by the late Linn Wescott. I will have to dig that one out.
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Victor Baird Fort Wayne, Indiana --- In STMFC@..., "cef39us" <cfrench@...> wrote:
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Re: Boston Library
Glen Mills <mills.glen@...>
Hello,
What about the two cars just right of the telephone pole? Seriously, I may have missed it, but where is the photograph taken? Regards, Glen Mills 4a. Boston Library <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/message/100925;_ylc=X3oDMTJzNWQwM3RyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzI1NTQ3NTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MTY5NzI1BG1zZ0lkAzEwMDkyNQRzZWMDZG1zZwRzbGsDdm1zZwRzdGltZQMxMzA4MTM3MzM2> Posted by: "Mark M" bnonut@... <bnonut@...?Subject=+Re%3A%20Boston%20Library> bnonut <http://profiles.yahoo.com/bnonut> Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:15 am (PDT) Very interesting freight car shot, many PRR but look toward the rear!!! Mark Morgan PS Grandpa now http://www.flickr.com/photos/boston_public_library/5786323249/sizes/o/in/photostream/ Back to top <https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&ik=ede6685c03&view=lg&msg=130931072060f201#130931072060f201_toc> Reply to sender <bnonut@...?Subject=Re%3A%20Boston%20Library>| Reply to group <STMFC@...?Subject=+Re%3A%20Boston%20Library>| Reply via web post <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJzc2Q0MjhhBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzI1NTQ3NTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MTY5NzI1BG1zZ0lkAzEwMDkyNQRzZWMDZG1zZwRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMzA4MTM3MzM2?act=reply&messageNum=100925> Messages in this topic <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/message/100925;_ylc=X3oDMTM5aDVsc2wyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzI1NTQ3NTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MTY5NzI1BG1zZ0lkAzEwMDkyNQRzZWMDZG1zZwRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMzA4MTM3MzM2BHRwY0lkAzEwMDkyNQ-->(2) 4b. Re: Boston Library <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/message/100926;_ylc=X3oDMTJzYTAyNWZyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzI1NTQ3NTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MTY5NzI1BG1zZ0lkAzEwMDkyNgRzZWMDZG1zZwRzbGsDdm1zZwRzdGltZQMxMzA4MTM3MzM2> Posted by: "John Degnan" Scaler164@... <Scaler164@...?Subject=+Re%3A%20Boston%20Library> scaler164 <http://profiles.yahoo.com/scaler164> Wed Jun 15, 2011 4:28 am (PDT) Is that a SAL "vent" box I see off in the distance... just barely left of the telephone pole? John Degnan Scaler164@... |
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Re: Wabash S/S Box Car Roadname Lettering Question
cef39us <cfrench@...>
The WABASH was always to the right of the doors of the S/S
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automobile cars. The cars that were converted to single 6' door cars had the WABASH moved to the left of the door and the reporting mark and number moved the right side. There is a possiblity that we will see the converted single door cars offered by Sunshine Models in the future. Chet French Dixon, IL --- In STMFC@..., "wabash2813" <reporterllc@...> wrote:
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Question on brakes on rebuilt SF Door and half automobile car
Bob McCarthy
Good evening!
Am currently building in S a 1971 KINSMAN SF boxcar which has no series number. Since, I am about to put AB brakes upon the underside representing the car as un-rebuilt from a door standpoint, but updated with the AB brake system, I need assistance from some SF knowledgeable folks.. My question is essentially whether the car would have had the brake staff replaced with the gear box and wheel in approximately the same area as the old brake platform? Hopefully, some of you SF experts will be able to send me a post WW II image of this car along with the double door version and the single door version. Thanks, Bob McCarthy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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tank car modeling
Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
I've been adding a number of posts about tank car modeling to my blog recently, the latest of which is at:
http://modelingthesp.blogspot.com/2011/06/tank-car-modeling-2.html These go beyond my article which appears in the current (July) issue of _Railroad Model Craftsman_ magazine, Tony Thompson 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail: thompson@... |
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Re: ERDX reefers
Armand Premo
Roger,Thank you.Can you tell me when your book will be available? Armand Premo
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----- Original Message -----
From: nerh2001 To: STMFC@... Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2011 5:33 PM Subject: [STMFC] Re: ERDX reefers Arnold Premo, please contact me off line(rhinman11@...) I have a response to your question that will include a photo also. Roger Hinman ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.891 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3235 - Release Date: 11/03/10 04:36:00 |
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Re: decals
Al and Patricia Westerfield <westerfield@...>
At the Denver NMRA convention I saw a display of new Walthers decals. There was a very complete set for PRR USRA SS box cars that caught my eye. All of the reweigh dates were identical to sets I included in my kits. Now, that might prototypically correct if we had used the same photos but I had made the dates up out of thin air. When I saw Bruce there I told him I didn't mind his copying my art but at least he should have given me an acknowledgment for the research. - Al Westerfield
Guys - I hesitate to bring this up, but... Back in the early 1980's, Bill Clouser told me that Champ "Rand McNallyed" all of his decal artwork, letter by letter. Rand McNally was notorious for making a couple of phonetic misspellings of town names on each one of their maps so that they could detect whether they were being copied by others. After I heard this, I looked carefully at the lettering, and it was very true! For instance, every letter in the "O" scale A.T. Kott |
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Re: Wabash S/S Box Car Roadname Lettering Question
Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Al Westerfield wrote:
Anyone who's seen us at shows knows our dirty little secret: every one of our cars has a different design on the second side. I never had the time to build enough cars to single-use them. My "reason" was always Tony's, that I planned to build a point-to-loop layout, sending one train out and a new one back. - Al WesterfieldBut Al, that's almost the OPPOSITE reason--I'm talking about physically reversing the car so as to change its service. If cars like this went around a loop, the next time you saw them their waybills wouldn't fit their lettering. On my old layout, where a reversing loop at one end did exist, I liked the idea of what Al states, that the train could change by cars being from an entirely different railroad when you next saw them. But of course this only works for "railfan" operation where you just enjoy the passing parade, not for operation with waybills and car cards. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history |
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Re: Wabash S/S Box Car Roadname Lettering Question
Al and Patricia Westerfield <westerfield@...>
Anyone who's seen us at shows knows our dirty little secret: every one of our cars has a different design on the second side. I never had the time to build enough cars to single-use them. My "reason" was always Tony's, that I planned to build a point-to-loop layout, sending one train out and a new one back. - Al Westerfield
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From: Anthony Thompson To: STMFC@... Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2011 1:09 PM Subject: [STMFC] Re: Wabash S/S Box Car Roadname Lettering Question I accomplished it by an even easier route--did the two sides of a car differently (same car number, though). Since my layout is "one sided," that is, no reversing loop, I can choose which kind of service the car is in, by which side faces operators. This also means, of course, that a waybill can't "live" in the car sleeve permanently, since assignments will change with the door status. I see that as good thing, because I'm trying to avoid "permanent" waybills wherever possible. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA a.. 2 a.. New Files 18 |
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Re: ERDX reefers
ROGER HINMAN
Arnold Premo, please contact me off line(rhinman11@...) I have a response to your question that will include a photo also.
Roger Hinman |
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Re: decals
Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
A.T. Kott wrote:
Back in the early 1980's, Bill Clouser told me that Champ "Rand McNallyed" all of his decal artwork, letter by letter . . . Champ made some of their later sets with correct lettering when word got out about this. Sets released after about 1975 should be OK and have correct artwork.The term "artwork" is misleading. Rich Meyer admitted that MOST sets from Champ were from the "Railroad Roman" lettering he used. Unless he inherited it from Max Gray, I don't see an "artwork" issue, nor any way individual letters could be modified unless it was done in all sets which used that typeface. Of course there were railroad emblems and sometimes distinctive railroad lettering, but certainly not in every case. BTW, fiddling with letters to get a "better" appearance is what typographers have done since the invention of printing. I am not at all sure that this is "Rand McNallying." There would be far easier ways to detect copying, Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history |
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Re: decals
proto48er
Guys -
I hesitate to bring this up, but... Back in the early 1980's, Bill Clouser told me that Champ "Rand McNallyed" all of his decal artwork, letter by letter. Rand McNally was notorious for making a couple of phonetic misspellings of town names on each one of their maps so that they could detect whether they were being copied by others. After I heard this, I looked carefully at the lettering, and it was very true! For instance, every letter in the "O" scale "Pennsylvania" hopper decal had been changed slightly from the prototype lettering - even the "I" was widened! This was very upsetting when I realized that I had used bad lettering on cars that took time to make correct. This was the impetus for a few "O" scale guys to start making their own decal artwork with correct lettering. Champ did have a lot of railroad drawings for lettering - drawings of individual letters - at his disposal, but deliberately made small changes to each letter. Champ made some of their later sets with correct lettering when word got out about this. Sets released after about 1975 should be OK and have correct artwork. I am not posting this to badmouth Champ - their recent sets are probably OK. Just wanted to warn you to look closely at each letter in a Champ set and compare with lettering on a car in a prototype photo before you apply it to your otherwise prototypical model. Concerning the legibility of very small lettering, that is what serifs are for! Serifs will subconsciously direct your eye when you read lettering which has connecting lines so small that they have disappeared on the decal sheet. You will not realize that the lines are not there, except on close, deliberate inspection. We have legible 1" high prototype lettering in "O" scale printed by silk screen on decal paper. A.T. Kott |
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Re: CB&Q XA-16 brake layout
proto48er
Tim -
That is an interesting observation - were there freight cars that had the brake release rod only on one side? I have only seen cars with the rod passing under/through the centersill to both sides of the car. I thought that a release rod was required on both sides of the car. As I said, on cars with a straight centersill, the rod many times ended directly below the brake valve on the side of the centersill where the valve was located. This makes it hard to see. In such a photo, I would assume that, if you could not see the rod, then the valve was on that side of the car and the rod terminated directly under the center of the valve. In this instance, the brakeman had to bend down and reach under the car to pull the lever and release the air. I think that the valve was mounted close to the side sill, and not next to the centersill where it would be difficult to reach. A.T. Kott |
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Re: Wabash S/S Box Car Roadname Lettering Question
Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Jerry Glow wrote:
I purposly bought a 2nd Westerfield MP door and a half car so I could include such lettering...I accomplished it by an even easier route--did the two sides of a car differently (same car number, though). Since my layout is "one sided," that is, no reversing loop, I can choose which kind of service the car is in, by which side faces operators. This also means, of course, that a waybill can't "live" in the car sleeve permanently, since assignments will change with the door status. I see that as good thing, because I'm trying to avoid "permanent" waybills wherever possible. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history |
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