Date   

1:1 STMFCs For Sale

Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 


Re: Unsual routings?

Greg Martin
 

Tim writes:


Tim O'Connor wrote:
But is the exact route always known BEFORE the load is picked up for delivery?<
Tim specifically ask "the exact route" and I would say not always, the person who ordered the car was told that the car was "finaling on the PRR in NY" but might not know the exact route that the car was taking i.e., Benson tells his secretary "Betty, call Smith and order up two cars, one for Philly and one for N.Y. I am going to lunch..." it's that simple... and she does what she is told.

Tony says:

"Normally the shipper has provided a bill of lading to the agent or other official so that all info for the waybill is available. It was shipper's right to choose the routing and many if not most did so. They could always tell the agent to choose it, who would of course attempt to maximize mileage on his own railroad, subject to the "approved routing" book. The bill of lading, or at least parts of it, would be supplied to the Car Distributor or equivalent, just so that
person WOULD know how to choose the empty.

Tony Thompson"

And Tony's correct. The local clerk would contact the car distributor and the car distributor would instruct the clerk to supply, "those two Santa Fe cars you have and I'll call Williams at the Santa Fe and get his Okay..." Then the specific routing would be established and then Betty would type up the Bill of Lading for her boss, he (Benson) takes it to the agent or clerk to have a waybill drafted once the car is loading and the bill of lading will have Benson's route on it. The car distributor says, "Great, I bust my butt to get that SOB Benson a couple of cars and he short hauls me..."

Yes the car is out of the service rules but the bitch will come when there is a load in California and that local agent is out trying to find an empty for his local shipper... Been there done that...

Remember a railroad that violates these service rules can be fined and the first fine is $35.00 in today's dollars, I'm not sure what it was then.

Greg Martin







-----Original Message-----
From: Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Fri, Dec 10, 2010 1:33 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Unsual routings?




Tim O'Connor wrote:
But is the exact route always known BEFORE the load is picked up for
delivery?
Normally the shipper has provided a bill of lading to the agent
or other official so that all info for the waybill is available. It
was shipper's right to choose the routing and many if not most did so.
They could always tell the agent to choose it, who would of course
attempt to maximize mileage on his own railroad, subject to the
"approved routing" book. The bill of lading, or at least parts of it,
would be supplied to the Car Distributor or equivalent, just so that
person WOULD know how to choose the empty.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Iron Modeler, was RDG/ Southern box car questions

Bruce Smith
 

Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...> 12/10/10 2:43 PM >>>
Actually, you're missing out. The chefs, especially the ones in the
original
Japanese version, actually produce some five star cuisine more often
than not,
and creativity, skill, and knowledge are what gets tested on the show.
If
you're saying you're not up to the challenge, then we all understand.
Ben Hom
Chef Ben,

If it was a prototype model, I'd jump right in and suggest a venue as
this sounds like fun ;^) Alas, with the car in question not being much
other than fodder for a "protofreelancer", I'm not gonna waste my time
or effort.

HOWEVER, a suitable prototype car is sitting right here in front of me,
the venerable Athearn Quad. As I understand it, it is perfect for a
number of pre-WWII hoppers, especially the B&M, B&O, C&O, DL&W, Erie,
MEC, M-K-T, MP, etc... And I see it as a definite sow's ear that could
be a silk purse...

So hows about we take this "sows ear" conversion discussion over to the
comatose Virtual Modeler's list and have some fun <VBG>??

Regards
Chef Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...> 12/10/10 2:43 PM >>>
Tim O'Connor wrote:
"So you're saying take a sow's ear, and see which one of us
produces the least distasteful result?? I guess this is why
I've never seen "Iron Chef"... I'm more of a Julia Child fan,
preferring to start with only high quality ingredients. :-)"

Actually, you're missing out. The chefs, especially the ones in the
original
Japanese version, actually produce some five star cuisine more often
than not,
and creativity, skill, and knowledge are what gets tested on the show.
If
you're saying you're not up to the challenge, then we all understand.


Ben Hom


------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: Stamping hopper ribs, was: Reading class HTf and HTh hoppers

eddie_walters <eddie_walters@...>
 

Would have helped, I suppose, if I'd included the link. Ho hum!
http://www.yardoffice.com/RR/Modeling/howto/ribstamp.html

--- In STMFC@..., "eddie_walters" <eddie_walters@...> wrote:

Thanks all for the info!

Being the 1940 modeler Bruce mentioned that was discussing this with, I've been thinking about scratchbuilding some hoppers to cover the more distinctive types. The problem I've always been a little wary of with hoppers is how to make the side ribs. I found this fantastic article by Jeff Eggert on stamping ribs out of brass using a styrene form, using all sorts of clever tricks to make them repeatable and quick.

With Archer rivets, some careful styrene work and this technique, I think some presentable and relatively accurate hoppers are quite possible. Reading cars seem to be quite distinctive, with a relatively shallow slope of the slope sheets.

Ed Walters

--- In STMFC@..., "George Losse" <glosse1@> wrote:

Bruce,

The Reading rebuilt their open hopper cars in large batches in their company shops. I have a copy of a Reading book that documented the rebuilding of the HTf class during the thirties. The photos do not show every end panel being replaced. The repair appears to be done on an "as-needed" basis.

This was also done to the HTj (USRA twin) class when they were rebuilt in the thirties. This is why some of the LOa covered hoppers had the same panel on the ends of the cars but not all. The panels that were applied to the hopper cars were recycled from boxcars as some have boxcar lettering on them when applied during the rebuilds. None went out of the shops with that paint, but it does show that the panels were being used a second time also.

Not sure what would be a good start for the HTh in HO, I model in O scale. The car does appear to have a shallow slope to the slope sheet than other cars on the Reading roster. I plan to use an Atlas War Emergency hopper as the starting point in o scale, with new scratch-built sides. It is within a few inches on the inside length, the height will need to come down a little.

George Losse



--- In STMFC@..., Bruce Smith <smithbf@> wrote:

Folks,

A friend and I were having a discussion on modeling the READING
hopper fleet, especially circa 1940-44 (he models 1940, and I 1944).
I had a couple of questions regarding various READING hoppers.

1) I see that F&C sells kits (1019, 1020) for class HTf twin hoppers
with plain and pressed steel ends respectively. The F&C web site
implies that the pressed steel ends replaced the plain ends around
the time the cars were converted from arch-bar trucks. Is this correct?

2) I'm curious to know if there are any models in HO of the READING
HTh class twin "pre-USRA" cars, series 74500-78999 or suggestions on
how to kitbash these cars. With 4500 built in 1917-18 this car
should be represented in both our fleets.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Stamping hopper ribs, was: Reading class HTf and HTh hoppers

eddie_walters <eddie_walters@...>
 

Thanks all for the info!

Being the 1940 modeler Bruce mentioned that was discussing this with, I've been thinking about scratchbuilding some hoppers to cover the more distinctive types. The problem I've always been a little wary of with hoppers is how to make the side ribs. I found this fantastic article by Jeff Eggert on stamping ribs out of brass using a styrene form, using all sorts of clever tricks to make them repeatable and quick.

With Archer rivets, some careful styrene work and this technique, I think some presentable and relatively accurate hoppers are quite possible. Reading cars seem to be quite distinctive, with a relatively shallow slope of the slope sheets.

Ed Walters

--- In STMFC@..., "George Losse" <glosse1@...> wrote:

Bruce,

The Reading rebuilt their open hopper cars in large batches in their company shops. I have a copy of a Reading book that documented the rebuilding of the HTf class during the thirties. The photos do not show every end panel being replaced. The repair appears to be done on an "as-needed" basis.

This was also done to the HTj (USRA twin) class when they were rebuilt in the thirties. This is why some of the LOa covered hoppers had the same panel on the ends of the cars but not all. The panels that were applied to the hopper cars were recycled from boxcars as some have boxcar lettering on them when applied during the rebuilds. None went out of the shops with that paint, but it does show that the panels were being used a second time also.

Not sure what would be a good start for the HTh in HO, I model in O scale. The car does appear to have a shallow slope to the slope sheet than other cars on the Reading roster. I plan to use an Atlas War Emergency hopper as the starting point in o scale, with new scratch-built sides. It is within a few inches on the inside length, the height will need to come down a little.

George Losse



--- In STMFC@..., Bruce Smith <smithbf@> wrote:

Folks,

A friend and I were having a discussion on modeling the READING
hopper fleet, especially circa 1940-44 (he models 1940, and I 1944).
I had a couple of questions regarding various READING hoppers.

1) I see that F&C sells kits (1019, 1020) for class HTf twin hoppers
with plain and pressed steel ends respectively. The F&C web site
implies that the pressed steel ends replaced the plain ends around
the time the cars were converted from arch-bar trucks. Is this correct?

2) I'm curious to know if there are any models in HO of the READING
HTh class twin "pre-USRA" cars, series 74500-78999 or suggestions on
how to kitbash these cars. With 4500 built in 1917-18 this car
should be represented in both our fleets.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0






Re: RDG/ Southern box car questions

Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
 

A piece of roof, end, and side sticking out from the mud and/or under other better-detailed cars at a derailment site, perhaps?

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


Yes Ben, you're just too talented for my meager skills... No way could
I produce a 5-star model from that piece of junk. I bow to your genius.


Tim O'Connor wrote:
"So you're saying take a sow's ear, and see which one of us
produces the least distasteful result?? I guess this is why
I've never seen "Iron Chef"... I'm more of a Julia Child fan,
preferring to start with only high quality ingredients. :-)"

Actually, you're missing out. The chefs, especially the ones in the original
Japanese version, actually produce some five star cuisine more often than not,
and creativity, skill, and knowledge are what gets tested on the show. If
you're saying you're not up to the challenge, then we all understand.

Ben Hom


Re: RDG/ Southern box car questions

lnnrr <lnnrr@...>
 

Perhaps the jury should meet in Cocoa Beach. With ballots on the table.
Come Friday morning....Oyez! Oyez! Decision to be announced on
Saturday night by the Sheriff in these here parts. Photos of the
underframe to be supplied beside the models so no one need turn
them over to see.
Chuck Peck

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


So sayeth Tony... but where is thy Jury?

Tim O'Connor


Tim O'Connor wrote:
Ok, I'll bet you can't turn this sow's ear into a silk purse. If you
lose you have to buy me a beer the next time we meet and
vice versa. And we'll probably have to buy a round for the jury too.
Ben, never bet Tim any beer. Last time I did so, he lost but
wouldn't pay up.

Tony Thompson


Re: Loads...link to AMB; sorry! (UNCLASSIFIED)

cj riley <cjriley42@...>
 

<The beam loads are made from a thin cardboard-like material. Many of

the parts are backed with adhesive and, at least the "green monster"

load pretty much assembled w/o glue (I painted mine a more sedate grimy

black). I've found it to take paint well, so it is not paper-like.>


There is a resin impregnated paper material being used by some laser kit folks. It works great for windows and other fine details.

CJ Riley


__,_.CJ Riley_,___


Re: Loads...link to AMB; sorry! (UNCLASSIFIED)

Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

Does it look like painted metal or painted "cardboard-like material"? I've never been impressed with wood structures because 1:1 wood just doesn't look like 1:87 wood, even painted.

KL

----- Original Message -----
From: Bruce Smith

The beam loads are made from a thin cardboard-like material. Many of
the parts are backed with adhesive and, at least the "green monster"
load pretty much assembled w/o glue (I painted mine a more sedate grimy
black). I've found it to take paint well, so it is not paper-like.


Re: reefer yellow (was New ART Steel Reefer Runs Now Available)

mopac1 <mopac1@...>
 

Tim,



Where did you take the color pictures of the new A.R. T. equipment? What
film did you use? They shots could certainly be an interesting addition to
the ART book.



From diagrams and railroad painting information we have available, they call
the car sides to be either chrome yellow or yellow. Unfortunately, they do
not a paint manufacturer or number to make a color match. The few builders
color negatives and color transparencies all have bright yellow sides. So
comparing them to your photos would be very helpful.



Gene Semon



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Tim
O'Connor
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 2:04 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: reefer yellow (was New ART Steel Reefer Runs Now
Available)



Gene

"Yellow" is a slippery term. For example, Maine Central's "Harvest Yellow"
is an almost exact match for SFRD reefer orange. I have too many color shots
of brand new or freshly painted ART reefers in light orange in the 1950's
to call it anything else but light orange. The Northern Pacific was another
railroad that for many years was misrepresented by vendors as having yellow
steel reefers. I have some R-40-23's from Evergreen Roundhouse (usually a
very
reliable custom painter) in an almost "banana yellow" color, instead of the
proper pale orange. (Intermountain actually did NP reefer colors correctly.)
But... some NP reefers FADED to a definite pale yellow color! So paint
fading
can really lead us astray.

Tim O'Connor



Gentlemen,

Prior to the 1964 color change to orange with the N&W's acquisition the
Wabash, virtually all A.R.T. reefers were painted with yellow sides. Some
do appear to shift towards orange in color photos or as they age & weather.
As Tim mentions, a small class of insulated boxcars assigned to the Wabash
were painted a dark blue. This was short lived, just about a six month
period.

An A.R.T. book is in the works with Tony. Hopefully it will follow the MDT
book.

Gene Semon


------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links



_____

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1170 / Virus Database: 426/3307 - Release Date: 12/10/10


Re: Loads...link to AMB; sorry! (UNCLASSIFIED)

Bruce Smith
 

Curt,

The beam loads are made from a thin cardboard-like material. Many of
the parts are backed with adhesive and, at least the "green monster"
load pretty much assembled w/o glue (I painted mine a more sedate grimy
black). I've found it to take paint well, so it is not paper-like.

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

"Kurt Laughlin" <fleeta@...> 12/10/10 3:53 PM >>>
Eldon: What is the structural beam load made from?

KL


------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: Unsuual routings?

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

I wrote:
Des Moines? Why? Their route from Albert Lea via Cedar Falls to Dubuque is quite direct to Chicago.
I should have said, of course, via Cedar Falls to Davenport, not Dubuque.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Unsuual routings?

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
Ok, so it was routed via Rock Island from the MNS. Interesting, since that is even more circuitous than the route I suggested via Fort Madison (since Rock Island would have to take it to Des Moines first).
Des Moines? Why? Their route from Albert Lea via Cedar Falls to Dubuque is quite direct to Chicago.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


NP Orange Reefers???

Richard Wilkens <railsnw@...>
 

I know we have been down this road way too many times, but I can verify that on two existing cars, NP 91366 (Built 1949) at the Northwest Railway Museum, and the one owned by NP historian Rick Leach (I think was built in 1954), that the area that is protected from light by the door is yellow. In fact NP drawings list it as Chrome Yellow. It does have a slight cast towards the orangish side but it is a yellow.

Rick has been working on matching various NP paint colors from actual sources.

Richard Wilkens


Re: Unsual routings?

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
But is the exact route always known BEFORE the load is picked up for delivery?
Normally the shipper has provided a bill of lading to the agent or other official so that all info for the waybill is available. It was shipper's right to choose the routing and many if not most did so. They could always tell the agent to choose it, who would of course attempt to maximize mileage on his own railroad, subject to the "approved routing" book. The bill of lading, or at least parts of it, would be supplied to the Car Distributor or equivalent, just so that person WOULD know how to choose the empty.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Unsual routings?

Clark Propst
 

The car came from west of the Twin Cities. That's why the MNS took it down to Northfield for the Rock Island who may well have taken it to Peoria? Was the Pennsy there?

The other car went to Chicago.
Clark Propst

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Ok, so it was routed via Rock Island from the MNS. Interesting, since >that is even more circuitous >
Tim O'Connor


Re: Unsual routings?

Tim O'Connor
 

I didn't see the original message... Ok, so it was routed via
Rock Island from the MNS. Interesting, since that is even more
circuitous than the route I suggested via Fort Madison (since
Rock Island would have to take it to Des Moines first). But is
the exact route always known BEFORE the load is picked up for
delivery?

The horse is only dead when the sheriff says it's dead. :-)

Tim O'Connor

But TIm, we do know the routing--all railroads were listed--and
ATSF is not among them. Gonna keep beating that horse?

Tony Thompson


Re: RDG/ Southern box car questions

Tim O'Connor
 

Yes Ben, you're just too talented for my meager skills... No way could
I produce a 5-star model from that piece of junk. I bow to your genius.

Tim O'Connor wrote:
"So you're saying take a sow's ear, and see which one of us
produces the least distasteful result?? I guess this is why
I've never seen "Iron Chef"... I'm more of a Julia Child fan,
preferring to start with only high quality ingredients. :-)"

Actually, you're missing out. The chefs, especially the ones in the original
Japanese version, actually produce some five star cuisine more often than not,
and creativity, skill, and knowledge are what gets tested on the show. If
you're saying you're not up to the challenge, then we all understand.

Ben Hom


Re: RDG/ Southern box car questions

Benjamin Hom
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
"So you're saying take a sow's ear, and see which one of us
produces the least distasteful result?? I guess this is why
I've never seen "Iron Chef"... I'm more of a Julia Child fan,
preferring to start with only high quality ingredients. :-)"

Actually, you're missing out.  The chefs, especially the ones in the original
Japanese version, actually produce some five star cuisine more often than not,
and creativity, skill, and knowledge are what gets tested on the show.  If
you're saying you're not up to the challenge, then we all understand.


Ben Hom


Re: Unusual routings?

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Richard Hendrickson wrote:
Tim, at the risk of flogging a dead horse, those cars weren't consigned to any of the places you list. They were consigned to New
York. And that's definitely a violation of the car service rules as spelled out explicitly, etc.
Richard is exactly right. But as I point out in my waybills clinic, there is a Car Service rule above all others, the "boss rule," or Rule Zero if you will, one which every railroader knows: "Protect the shipment." If a shipper needs a car, you provide a car even if you have to violate ALL SIX of the Car Service rules to do it. That's not to say you ignore the rules, only that you would never leave a shipper in the lurch just because you didn't happen to have an empty handy, which fits the rules.
And as discussed earlier, railroads all over the country loved to confiscate SFRD and PFE cars because they were maintained in good condition. The shipper was happy to get a sound car. The only person upset was the local PFE or SFRD agent, who had been trying to get that car sent westward empty for reloading on the owners' rails.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

100381 - 100400 of 195577