Date   

Re: A Great Glue for Resin Kits

william darnaby
 

I have well over 400 resin cars running on the layout and they were all assembled over a period of some 23 years with the same inexpensive Duro Super Glue. As of this morning none of them were disassembling themselves. I can buy the stuff in a twin pack for $1.98 at the hardware store and I do not have to take any precautions with it such as keeping it in the refrigerator.

YMMV

Bill Darnaby


Re: New York Central Raised Side Boxcars

Ricky Gilmore <x_white.bear_x@...>
 

Thanks guys! All this info is very helpful. Sorry about not signing my name. I'm still new to this message posting stuff.

Ricky Gilmore
Tuscaloosa, AL

--- On Wed, 12/29/10, Mark Morgan <bnonut@...> wrote:

From: Mark Morgan <bnonut@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] New York Central Raised Side Boxcars
To: STMFC@...
Date: Wednesday, December 29, 2010, 12:26 PM
















 









Thank You for these shortcuts Ray. Great help for NYC cars.

Mark Morgan



--- On Wed, 12/29/10, Ray Breyer <rtbsvrr69@...> wrote:



From: Ray Breyer <rtbsvrr69@...>

Subject: Re: [STMFC] New York Central Raised Side Boxcars

To: STMFC@...

Date: Wednesday, December 29, 2010, 12:08 PM



 



Can't give you a reasonable answer without the above


information.


Ben Hom


I can.



Paint "brown", weather to taste:



http://www.life.com/image/50653112



http://www.life.com/image/50653040



http://www.life.com/image/50653022



http://www.loc.gov/pictures/collection/fsac/item/fsa1992000761/PP/resource/



Four steam era NYC boxcars (the first three all taken in the same hour of the same day), four different "colors".



Paint matching DOES NOT MATTER.



Regards,



Ray Breyer



Elgin, IL


































[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: A great glue for resin kits

Tony Higgins
 

This is an interesting technique to facilitate positioning the parts before applying (fast setting) CA. I have had to unbond a CA joint on a few occasions when I wasn't satisfied with the fit and that's a pain. However, I threw out my Walther's GOO years ago when I ruined a fully detailed caboose underframe in using it to attach the weight and I'm reluctant to get another tube.

I wonder if anyone else has other suggestions for a two step bonding process as Bob described using something other than GOO as the first step and finishing with CA (which I still prefer)?

I buy the tiny tubes of Super Glue sold for a few bucks per 5 pack at Home Depot. It's cheap enough that if I suspect a tube has gone stale I toss it and open a new one...

Tony Higgins
Pittsford, NY

--- In STMFC@..., "Bob Jones" <bobjonesmodels@...> wrote:

Hi , My method is Walthers Goo for initial bond with an application of ACC after . The joint is stronger than the resin , learned the hard way after a mistake . I use the micro tips on the Goo to control it , works well in O scale joints , no experience in smaller scales . Bob Jones


<snip>


Re: New York Central Raised Side Boxcars

Mark
 

Thank You for these shortcuts Ray. Great help for NYC cars.
Mark Morgan

--- On Wed, 12/29/10, Ray Breyer <rtbsvrr69@...> wrote:

From: Ray Breyer <rtbsvrr69@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] New York Central Raised Side Boxcars
To: STMFC@...
Date: Wednesday, December 29, 2010, 12:08 PM
















 









> Can't give you a reasonable answer without the above

information.
Ben Hom


I can.



Paint "brown", weather to taste:



http://www.life.com/image/50653112

http://www.life.com/image/50653040

http://www.life.com/image/50653022

http://www.loc.gov/pictures/collection/fsac/item/fsa1992000761/PP/resource/



Four steam era NYC boxcars (the first three all taken in the same hour of the same day), four different "colors".



Paint matching DOES NOT MATTER.



Regards,

Ray Breyer

Elgin, IL


Re: A great glue for resin kits

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Ricky (not signing his full name) wrote:
I think the advantage in the Loctite system is in the Activator which "primes" the material allowing the CA to soak in instead of just lay on the surface.
The glue does not "soak in" to metals, glass, plastics etc. But "prime" is probably a good word in accelerating the setting.

I think most "super glues" are pretty much the same chemically. The same system is used in plumbing, a primer(activator) then a solvent(glue) resulting in a long lasting "solvent-welded" joint.
There are lots of CA formulations, as you can readily discover by Googling. The CA system does NOT use a solvent for the materials to be joined, and is thus QUITE different from plumbing glues used for plastic pipe--or the styrene cements we use in modeling.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: New York Central Raised Side Boxcars

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Dec 29, 2010, at 9:08 AM, Ray Breyer wrote:

Paint "brown", weather to taste:

http://www.life.com/image/50653112
http://www.life.com/image/50653040
http://www.life.com/image/50653022
http://www.loc.gov/pictures/collection/fsac/item/fsa1992000761/PP/
resource/

Four steam era NYC boxcars (the first three all taken in the same
hour of the same day), four different "colors".
Ray, your point is well made, and can't be made often enough. Age,
weathering, lighting, all influence the appearance of paint color
dramatically. Not to mention the size of the object and the eye of
the beholder. However....

Paint matching DOES NOT MATTER.
Now you're over-generalizing. The color you start with does matter,
up to a point. In the era I model, for example, Pennsy, B&O, and UP
oxide red were much more red than, say, Santa Fe or Southern mineral
brown. Modelers do need to start with a color more or less close to
that of the prototype, though somewhat lighter to compensate for the
fact that indoor lighting is never as intense as natural sunlight.

However, having said that, I'll agree with you that all the fussing
which breaks out periodically on this list about exact color matching
is a monumental waste of time and effort. For every model, there's a
commercial paint color, whether in water-based or solvent-based model
paints, that's close enough, even if you're modeling a fresh-from-the-
paint-shop car. Having built 200+ freight car models over the years,
I can't recall that I ever mixed paint to get a color match. And
I've never had anyone suggest that the colors on my models were "wrong."

Richard Hendrickson


Re: A Great Glue for Resin Kits

dgconnery@sbcglobal.net <dgconnery@...>
 

Jim Hayes,

You mentioned using one of the Tech-Bond adhesives. There are a number of them on the web site - which one do you specifically use and do you pruchase it locally or via the internet?

Thanks,

Dave Connery


Re: A great glue for resin kits

VINCE PUGLIESE
 

While I don't have any personal experience, there have been reports of baking
soda/cyanoacrylate joints failing over time:

http://www.starshipmodeler.net/talk/viewtopic.php?t=78005&sid=ddd5a03eb3377031fd49e2a496272b81

search for a post by ajmadison for a perspective on the subject.

I have heard of folks substituting talc, not sure if this should be pure talc or
if cosmetic powders will suffice, or microballons as these should be inert.

.vp



________________________________
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wed, December 29, 2010 11:17:15 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: A great glue for resin kits



So... a simple lookup of Cyanoacrylate with Google reveals that chemically
it is a weak acid, and that "accelerator" or "activator" is simply an akaline
or base chemical that neutralizes the acid. The activator is used in all cases
as a preparation on the surface to be bonded. The Wikipedia page notes that
many modelers use BAKING SODA to create their own "gap filling" mixtures.

"Cyanopoxy" and similar superglues that have greater tensile properties and
are less brittle might be variations of n-Butyl Cyanoacrylate, which is the
common medical form of CA. This may include the Loctite product. From what I
can find online it's not inherently more expensive than any other CA. I also
tried the ridiculously expensive Cyanopoxy and was very underwhelmed, and it
hardened on me less than a year after opening. (My basement is cool and open CA
usually lasts 3-4 years.)

Tim O'Connor

After struggling through many different adhesives, some of which left a brittle
joint, some a white film, some which didn't work at all; I have found Loctite
for plastics. Following the directions in the use of the activator and glue will
lead to great results, an invisible, super strong joint. I'm done with expensive
exotic glues as this can be found at Home Depot for three bucks. If anyone here
knows a hobby shop owner tell them to stock this product.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: white metal (was A great glue for resin kits)

Bill Welch
 

Makes great landing gear struts for 1/48 scale aircraft models too. Oops wrong list!

I love it as well.

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

KL wrote

The only joints that performed poorly were those involving white metal.
(It is horrible stuff and just a poor modeling material in general.)
I love white metal stuff. It's great for many uses, esp detail parts with
thin cross sections. It's easily drilled, easily filed, easily cut, has
good strength and flexibility/plasticity, is invulnerable to chemicals,
easily painted even by brush -- what's not to like? Oh and it's heavy too,
which is wonderful for some uses (like GS gondola doors). The most
beautiful AB brake parts that I have are white metal castings. I wish I
could get more!

Tim O'Connor


Re: white metal (was A great glue for resin kits)

Tim O'Connor
 

KL wrote

The only joints that performed poorly were those involving white metal.
(It is horrible stuff and just a poor modeling material in general.)
I love white metal stuff. It's great for many uses, esp detail parts with
thin cross sections. It's easily drilled, easily filed, easily cut, has
good strength and flexibility/plasticity, is invulnerable to chemicals,
easily painted even by brush -- what's not to like? Oh and it's heavy too,
which is wonderful for some uses (like GS gondola doors). The most
beautiful AB brake parts that I have are white metal castings. I wish I
could get more!

Tim O'Connor


Re: New York Central Raised Side Boxcars

Ray Breyer
 

Can't give you a reasonable answer without the above
information.
Ben Hom

I can.

Paint "brown", weather to taste:

http://www.life.com/image/50653112
http://www.life.com/image/50653040
http://www.life.com/image/50653022
http://www.loc.gov/pictures/collection/fsac/item/fsa1992000761/PP/resource/

Four steam era NYC boxcars (the first three all taken in the same hour of the same day), four different "colors".

Paint matching DOES NOT MATTER.

Regards,
Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL


Re: New York Central Raised Side Boxcars

Benjamin Hom
 

Ricky (who isn't signing his name in accordance with list guidelines) asked:
"I am currently building Sunshine's NYC 1-1/2 Door Rebuilt steel Boxcars Kit
series #93 The instructions state a 50/50 mix Floquil Boxcar Red and Oxide Red
nearly replicates NYC freight car brown while the PDS states the cars to be
painted Boxcar Red. Which direction should be followed to achieve the
prototypical color?"

Questions:
1.  What time period are you modeling?
2.  Are you currently working from any prototype photos?

Can't give you a reasonable answer without the above information.


Ben Hom


Re: A great glue for resin kits

Tim O'Connor
 

So... a simple lookup of Cyanoacrylate with Google reveals that chemically
it is a weak acid, and that "accelerator" or "activator" is simply an akaline
or base chemical that neutralizes the acid. The activator is used in all cases
as a preparation on the surface to be bonded. The Wikipedia page notes that
many modelers use BAKING SODA to create their own "gap filling" mixtures.

"Cyanopoxy" and similar superglues that have greater tensile properties and
are less brittle might be variations of n-Butyl Cyanoacrylate, which is the
common medical form of CA. This may include the Loctite product. From what I
can find online it's not inherently more expensive than any other CA. I also
tried the ridiculously expensive Cyanopoxy and was very underwhelmed, and it
hardened on me less than a year after opening. (My basement is cool and open CA
usually lasts 3-4 years.)

Tim O'Connor

After struggling through many different adhesives, some of which left a brittle joint, some a white film, some which didn't work at all; I have found Loctite for plastics. Following the directions in the use of the activator and glue will lead to great results, an invisible, super strong joint. I'm done with expensive exotic glues as this can be found at Home Depot for three bucks. If anyone here knows a hobby shop owner tell them to stock this product.


Re: New York Central Raised Side Boxcars

Pierre <pierre.oliver@...>
 

Ricky,
The term "boxcar red" has to be the most commonly used 2 words to describe what is really hundreds of shades of paint used to paint boxcars and other industrial things. The Floquil "boxcar red" in my mind qualifies as a brown. But that's my perception.
The mixture suggested in the instructions creates, for me, a satisfactory starting point colour for the NYC fleet. Feel free to adjust according to your own perceptions and tastes.
Pierre Oliver
http://elgincarshops.com/

--- In STMFC@..., "Ricky" <x_white.bear_x@...> wrote:

I am currently building Sunshine's NYC 1-1/2 Door Rebuilt steel Boxcars Kit series #93 The instructions state a 50/50 mix Floquil Boxcar Red and Oxide Red nearly replicates NYC freight car brown while the PDS states the cars to be painted Boxcar Red. Which direction should be followed to achieve the prototypical color. Thanks in advance.


Re: Library of Congress Photos

Al and Patricia Westerfield <westerfield@...>
 

Bill - Looks like the end decal is fogged. Guess Armour didn't use a setting solution! - Al Westerfield

----- Original Message -----
From: lnbill
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2010 7:22 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Library of Congress Photos



I do not have a precise link but here is a link to one of the photos I found. Everyone on this list will love this 1903 scene showing an Armour owned FGE reefer being loaded with bananas in New Orleans. Note that you can download this large 900 dpi image, great screen saver!

http://www.loc.gov/pictures/item/det1994006485/PP/

From there you can search for specific topics and industries. On the link above you will see some suggestions for the photo you will see. I don't know what you interest is but say it is "steel." I would put in "steel" to begin with. For my topic I did individual crops, loading, unloading, and on and on.

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@..., "Nathan" <obermeyern@...> wrote:
>
> Bill,
>
> Do you have a direct link to the data base you're using? The LOC is so large, I just want to ensure I'm looking in the correct place. Also, where are the industries information located? Thank you,
>
> Nate
>
>
>
> --- In STMFC@..., "lnbill" <fgexbill@> wrote:
> >
> > I think it is a worthy suggestion to create a data base of photos from the LofC photo collection. I do think it is important to know that this may be a moving target. From my visits to their web archives they continue to expand both what is there and what is available as a high resolution image.
> >
> > Also for those researching various industries related to railroading, their collection is a gold mine. For example there are many images related to agriculture: planting, harvesting, preparation, shipping, wholesaling and retailing of perishable produce for example.
> >
> > There are also some small collections that can only be seen on the premises. For example there is such a collection from the a AAR.
> >
> > Bill Welch
> >
>


New York Central Raised Side Boxcars

Ricky <x_white.bear_x@...>
 

I am currently building Sunshine's NYC 1-1/2 Door Rebuilt steel Boxcars Kit series #93 The instructions state a 50/50 mix Floquil Boxcar Red and Oxide Red nearly replicates NYC freight car brown while the PDS states the cars to be painted Boxcar Red. Which direction should be followed to achieve the prototypical color. Thanks in advance.


Re: A great glue for resin kits

Ricky <x_white.bear_x@...>
 

I think the advantage in the Loctite system is in the Activator which "primes" the material allowing the CA to soak in instead of just lay on the surface. The Activator might work with other brands of CA but I'm not sure. I think most "super glues" are pretty much the same chemically. The same system is used in plumbing, a primer(activator) then a solvent(glue) resulting in a long lasting "solvent-welded" joint.

--- In STMFC@..., "Bob Jones" <bobjonesmodels@...> wrote:

Hi , My method is Walthers Goo for initial bond with an application of ACC after . The joint is stronger than the resin , learned the hard way after a mistake . I use the micro tips on the Goo to control it , works well in O scale joints , no experience in smaller scales . Bob Jones


----- Original Message -----
From: Tim O'Connor
To: STMFC@...
Sent: 12/29/2010 3:53:28 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: A great glue for resin kits




When I build resin carbodies, especially closed cars, I only use CA
to "tack" parts together and then use generous applications of good
old Epoxy to ensure permanent bonds. I have a Sunshine gondola on
which I used only CA throughout, and it's always been somewhat "brittle"
with weak side-to-floor bonds. Try gluing something like Gary said -
a broken delrin handrail - and then give it a good twist and flex. If
the bond holds, then this Loctite stuff may actually be different.
In the meantime, my little 2-yr old bottle of Zap is still working.

Tim O'Connor

I spent a bit of time downstairs this evening, for the first time in
sometime to be honest. Anyhow, as I indicted earlier, I went to Home Depot
and purchased the Loctite Plastic Bonding System and found it to be a very
easy to use product. I worked on a caboose and a mechanical reefer, both by
WrightTRAK, and it worked well on both of these cars. I used the activator
first, as directed to and then the glue. Worked great resulting in nice
tight bonds. How these hold up over time is a whole different subject. For
the price, 3.98 at the local store, you almost can't go wrong. Even is this
didn't work on resin freight cars I am sure that there would be a 1,000,001
uses around the house. I also, as stated, picked up Gorilla Super Glue. I
did NOT try that tonight and as such cant report on it. Overall I was happy
with the Loctite product and am anxious to see how it holds up over time.

Denis Blake



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: A great glue for resin kits

Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

OK, never used cyanopoxy. In my model building I have used thin and gap-filling CA glue for resin (*) to resin, brass, steel, aluminum, copper, styrene, and white metal. The only joints that performed poorly were those involving white metal. (It is horrible stuff and just a poor modeling material in general.) In those cases I used conventional epoxy. The other metal joints are weaker than the polymer joints, but adequate. I've found that having a clean, well-fitted, joint is more important that just about anything else.

(*) All resin model parts were polyurethane. Outside of model railroading I've never seen anything else since epoxy and polyester fell by the wayside in the 1980's. Are these other resin compounds I've seen advertised "real" or someone's mis-understanding of the chemistry?

KL

----- Original Message -----
From: Denis Blake

I don’t know that there is an advantage over conventional CA glues. The
comparison is against cyanopoxy. At under 4 bucks for this kit of 2
components versus 40.00 for the cyanopoxy the comparison is clear. It is
the price comparison for a product that may, or may not, do the same thing
for much less money. My initial impression tonight was favorable. The one
variable I couldn’t check tonight was that of durability of the bond. That
is going to have be done over a period of time.

-----Original Message-----
From: Kurt Laughlin
Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2010 10:23 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: A great glue for resin kits

What is the purported advantage of this over conventional CA glues for
bonding resin?

KL

----- Original Message -----
From: Denis Blake

I spent a bit of time downstairs this evening, for the first time in
sometime to be honest. Anyhow, as I indicted earlier, I went to Home Depot
and purchased the Loctite Plastic Bonding System and found it to be a very
easy to use product. I worked on a caboose and a mechanical reefer, both by
WrightTRAK, and it worked well on both of these cars. I used the activator
first, as directed to and then the glue. Worked great resulting in nice
tight bonds. How these hold up over time is a whole different subject. For
the price, 3.98 at the local store, you almost can't go wrong. Even is this
didn’t work on resin freight cars I am sure that there would be a 1,000,001
uses around the house. I also, as stated, picked up Gorilla Super Glue. I
did NOT try that tonight and as such cant report on it. Overall I was happy
with the Loctite product and am anxious to see how it holds up over time.


Re: Library of Congress Photos

Bill Welch
 

I do not have a precise link but here is a link to one of the photos I found. Everyone on this list will love this 1903 scene showing an Armour owned FGE reefer being loaded with bananas in New Orleans. Note that you can download this large 900 dpi image, great screen saver!

http://www.loc.gov/pictures/item/det1994006485/PP/

From there you can search for specific topics and industries. On the link above you will see some suggestions for the photo you will see. I don't know what you interest is but say it is "steel." I would put in "steel" to begin with. For my topic I did individual crops, loading, unloading, and on and on.

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@..., "Nathan" <obermeyern@...> wrote:

Bill,

Do you have a direct link to the data base you're using? The LOC is so large, I just want to ensure I'm looking in the correct place. Also, where are the industries information located? Thank you,

Nate



--- In STMFC@..., "lnbill" <fgexbill@> wrote:

I think it is a worthy suggestion to create a data base of photos from the LofC photo collection. I do think it is important to know that this may be a moving target. From my visits to their web archives they continue to expand both what is there and what is available as a high resolution image.

Also for those researching various industries related to railroading, their collection is a gold mine. For example there are many images related to agriculture: planting, harvesting, preparation, shipping, wholesaling and retailing of perishable produce for example.

There are also some small collections that can only be seen on the premises. For example there is such a collection from the a AAR.

Bill Welch


Re: A great glue for resin kits

Bob Jones <bobjonesmodels@...>
 

Hi , My method is Walthers Goo for initial bond with an application of ACC after . The joint is stronger than the resin , learned the hard way after a mistake . I use the micro tips on the Goo to control it , works well in O scale joints , no experience in smaller scales . Bob Jones

----- Original Message -----
From: Tim O'Connor
To: STMFC@...
Sent: 12/29/2010 3:53:28 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: A great glue for resin kits




When I build resin carbodies, especially closed cars, I only use CA
to "tack" parts together and then use generous applications of good
old Epoxy to ensure permanent bonds. I have a Sunshine gondola on
which I used only CA throughout, and it's always been somewhat "brittle"
with weak side-to-floor bonds. Try gluing something like Gary said -
a broken delrin handrail - and then give it a good twist and flex. If
the bond holds, then this Loctite stuff may actually be different.
In the meantime, my little 2-yr old bottle of Zap is still working.

Tim O'Connor

I spent a bit of time downstairs this evening, for the first time in
sometime to be honest. Anyhow, as I indicted earlier, I went to Home Depot
and purchased the Loctite Plastic Bonding System and found it to be a very
easy to use product. I worked on a caboose and a mechanical reefer, both by
WrightTRAK, and it worked well on both of these cars. I used the activator
first, as directed to and then the glue. Worked great resulting in nice
tight bonds. How these hold up over time is a whole different subject. For
the price, 3.98 at the local store, you almost can't go wrong. Even is this
didn't work on resin freight cars I am sure that there would be a 1,000,001
uses around the house. I also, as stated, picked up Gorilla Super Glue. I
did NOT try that tonight and as such cant report on it. Overall I was happy
with the Loctite product and am anxious to see how it holds up over time.

Denis Blake



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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