Date   

Re: Semet Solvay Tank Car with platform in Photo Section

water.kresse@...
 

Didn't Semet-Solvay also run recovery coke plants ythat they would have to ship coke bi-products out for use in thechemical industry . . or did these just get recycled to local cehmical plants for other products?



C&O HS pix of Semet-Solvay plant at Ashland, Kentucky, focus on the C&O coal coming in and coke going out to Armco Steel.



Al Kresse

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim O'Connor" <timboconnor@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2010 8:58:25 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Semet Solvay Tank Car with platform in Photo Section


The "Solvay Process" is a method to manufacture sodium carbonate.
So in addition to the coal-tar business Semet-Solvay (a subsidiary
of Allied Chemical after 1920) remained heavily involved in the
'alkali chemicals' business too. It's hard to know what the tank
car was used for although solvents is a reasonable guess.

RMJ 7/1997 has a photo of SSLX 253 a Type 27 with a platform, just
like Mike's car except for the car number.

I have a scan of SHPX 5094 "Solvay Process Division" a large ICC 105
chlorine tank car built in the late 1950's. And a scan of SPX 5036
"Solvay Process Company", an insulated tank car with a large dome,
looks like an 8k or 10k tank.

SPX 7002-7010 were insulated 10k tank cars for "caustic potash" still
in service in 1953. Builder photo in TrainShed Cyc #71.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solvay_process
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solvay_Process_Company

Tim O'Connor


At 12/18/2010 06:33 PM Saturday, you wrote:
Gene Green wrote:
Nicely done, Mike.  Thanks for posting the photos.
What product was hauled in Semet-Solvay tank cars?
     Semet-Solvay essentially made coke from coal, mostly to obtain  
the coal-tar chemicals (they also sold the coke). These chemicals  
included several solvents such as paint thinner, along with residual  
tar used to make asphalt. Richard Hendrickson pointed out that his  
photos of Semet-Solvay in no case reveal the kind of spillage which  
would correspond to tar or asphalt cargoes, so tank cars like the one  
Mike did were evidently used to ship solvents.

Tony Thompson


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: New resin kit for Hart Ballast cars...

Jack Burgess <jack@...>
 

<Rodgers Hart Convertible cars were very popular with railways in Canada.
<A large number were in service. The June 1921 ORER lists the following
<railways owning Hart cars with approximately 4' inside height, 34'-8
<inside length, very close to the new kit:
<Canadian National (940), Grand Trunk Pacific (300), Canadian Government
<Railways (400) and Canadian Northern (249).
<
<Additional large numbers of Hart cars with slightly different dimensions
<were owned. For example, Canadian Pacific owned 408 Hart cars with a
<lower 3' inside height and Intercolonial owned 200 with 3-0 inside
<height
<
<John Riddell

I'm completely unfamiliar with Canadian railroads but while doing research
for the drawings, someone sent me builder's photos of several of Canadian
cars including ones lettered for the Canadian Northern, Canadian Northern
Ontario, Canadian Northern Quebec, Grand Trunk Pacific, Intercolonial, and
Quebec Central. Some have extensions on the sides and others have the brake
wheel on the opposite side of the car but otherwise, they are possibly very
close to the kit.


Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyrr.com


Re: New resin kit for Hart Ballast cars...

John <jriddell@...>
 

Rodgers Hart Convertible cars were very popular with railways in Canada. A large number were in service. The June 1921 ORER lists the following railways owning Hart cars with approximately 4' inside height, 34'-8 inside length, very close to the new kit:
Canadian National (940), Grand Trunk Pacific (300), Canadian Government Railways (400) and Canadian Northern (249).

Additional large numbers of Hart cars with slightly different dimensions were owned. For example, Canadian Pacific owned 408 Hart cars with a lower 3' inside height and Intercolonial owned 200 with 3-0 inside height

John Riddell


Re: Champlin Refining tank car

al_brown03
 

There's a photo of HHCX 580 in Ted Culotta's tank car book, p 93, in pretty much this scheme. The differences I can see are that the photo shows the capacity and light weight in small black letters up between "Champlin" and "Refining" rather than in larger letters below the reporting marks, and the reporting marks are repeated on the center sill in large white letters. The same photo appears in Model Railroading 3-4/84 p 32, which says it's an 8000-gallon car. According to Culotta, the car is a Pennsylvania Tank Car product built 3/1923. I *think* it has three longitudinal courses, just because I can't see radial rivets (the white of the tank tends to blend into the sky).

To model it, wow, wish I knew dimensions. It's an off-brand car so (unless you want to scratchbuild or extensively kitbash) the question is what does it look like. I'd be tempted to overlay the decal on AC&F Type 21 (P2K) and Type 27 (Intermountain) tanks, see which it fits better. Just eyeballing, the tank looks more like a Type 21, which is shorter annd chunkier than the Type 27. The frame lacks end or side sills, and the sill steps are double steps with diagonal braces, like the ones in Southern Car & Foundry Standard Tank Car kits. Neat car!

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

--- In STMFC@..., Gerald Glow <jerryglow@...> wrote:

Oddballs has a decal set for Champlin Refining see:
http://mopac1.tripod.com/103.gif Is it accurate and what would be the
appropriate car to use?

Jerry Glow
The Villages FL
http://home.comcast.net/~jerryglow/decals.html

--
If I agreed with you we'd both be wrong.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Champlin Refining tank car

al_brown03
 

There's a photo of HHCX 580 in Ted Culotta's tank car book, p 93, in pretty much this scheme. The differences I can see are that the photo shows the capacity and light weight in small black letters up between "Champlin" and "Refining" rather than in larger letters below the reporting marks, and the reporting marks are repeated on the center sill in large white letters. The same photo appears in Model Railroading 3-4/84 p 32, which says it's an 8000-gallon car. According to Culotta, the car is a Pennsylvania Tank Car product built 3/1923. I *think* it has three longitudinal courses, just because I can't see radial rivets (the white of the tank tends to blend into the sky).

To model it, wow, wish I knew dimensions. It's an off-brand car so (unless you want to scratchbuild or extensively kitbash) the question is what does it look like. I'd be tempted to overlay the decal on AC&F Type 21 (P2K) and Type 27 (Intermountain) tanks, see which it fits better. Just eyeballing, the tank looks more like a Type 21, which is shorter annd chunkier than the Type 27. The frame lacks end or side sills, and the sill steps are double steps with diagonal braces, like the ones in Southern Car & Foundry Standard Tank Car kits. Neat car!

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

--- In STMFC@..., Gerald Glow <jerryglow@...> wrote:

Oddballs has a decal set for Champlin Refining see:
http://mopac1.tripod.com/103.gif Is it accurate and what would be the
appropriate car to use?

Jerry Glow
The Villages FL
http://home.comcast.net/~jerryglow/decals.html

--
If I agreed with you we'd both be wrong.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Champlin Refining tank car

jerryglow2
 

Oddballs has a decal set for Champlin Refining see:
http://mopac1.tripod.com/103.gif Is it accurate and what would be the
appropriate car to use?

Jerry Glow
The Villages FL
http://home.comcast.net/~jerryglow/decals.html

--
If I agreed with you we'd both be wrong.


Re: MISSOURI PACIFIC DOOR AND A HALF OB AUTO CAR

jerryglow2
 

IIRC I used the Westerfield decals when modifying mine. I assume he's using the same set for the single door version.

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@..., "Al and Patricia Westerfield" <westerfield@...> wrote:

Bill - According to my notes there was very little difference in the later lettering. The roadname was removed and extreme height and width added. Our decal set covers all lettering styles. - Al

----- Original Message -----
From: WILLIAM PARDIE
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2010 6:23 PM
Subject: [STMFC] MISSOURI PACIFIC DOOR AND A HALF OB AUTO CAR



Tony Thompson's recent blog concerning updating older cars had me
looking at some
of my early completions. I believe that one of Westerfield's first
resin type kits was
a IGN door and a half automobile car numbered 14035, It had a build
date of 1927.
I built the car and used the supplied decals which had the "as built"
lettering scheme.

Last year in Naperville I picked up a photo from Bob's showing this
car as MP #81322
with a service date of DES 2-51. There was some additional bracing
under the doors and
the brakes had been changed to AB's. Aside from this and the addition
of the second grab
iron the car was exactly the same. Any kit instructions with
prototype data have long been
lost (Actually back then I built kits with little regard for prototype
data as not much was
available. Does anyone have an more data on these cars? I would like
to reletter it
into my modeling period (late 40's early 50's).

Thanks in advance for any help:

Bill Pardie







Re: Semet Solvay Tank Car with platform in Photo Section

Tim O'Connor
 

Yep, you're right. I sit corrected.

Tim

Tim O'Connor wrote:
The "Solvay Process" is a method to manufacture sodium carbonate. So
in addition to the coal-tar business Semet-Solvay (a subsidiary of
Allied Chemical after 1920) remained heavily involved in the 'alkali
chemicals' business too.
Look again, Tim. Semet-Solvay was owned by another branch of the
Solvay family, and was NOT in the alkali chemicals business. The
Solvay company and operations were entirely separate. Eventually both
did get absorbed into Allied Chemical, where for a number of years
they continued as separate businesses.

Tony Thompson


Re: Semet Solvay Tank Car with platform in Photo Section

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
The "Solvay Process" is a method to manufacture sodium carbonate. So in addition to the coal-tar business Semet-Solvay (a subsidiary of Allied Chemical after 1920) remained heavily involved in the 'alkali chemicals' business too.
Look again, Tim. Semet-Solvay was owned by another branch of the Solvay family, and was NOT in the alkali chemicals business. The Solvay company and operations were entirely separate. Eventually both did get absorbed into Allied Chemical, where for a number of years they continued as separate businesses.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: MISSOURI PACIFIC DOOR AND A HALF OB AUTO CAR

Al and Patricia Westerfield <westerfield@...>
 

Bill - According to my notes there was very little difference in the later lettering. The roadname was removed and extreme height and width added. Our decal set covers all lettering styles. - Al

----- Original Message -----
From: WILLIAM PARDIE
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2010 6:23 PM
Subject: [STMFC] MISSOURI PACIFIC DOOR AND A HALF OB AUTO CAR



Tony Thompson's recent blog concerning updating older cars had me
looking at some
of my early completions. I believe that one of Westerfield's first
resin type kits was
a IGN door and a half automobile car numbered 14035, It had a build
date of 1927.
I built the car and used the supplied decals which had the "as built"
lettering scheme.

Last year in Naperville I picked up a photo from Bob's showing this
car as MP #81322
with a service date of DES 2-51. There was some additional bracing
under the doors and
the brakes had been changed to AB's. Aside from this and the addition
of the second grab
iron the car was exactly the same. Any kit instructions with
prototype data have long been
lost (Actually back then I built kits with little regard for prototype
data as not much was
available. Does anyone have an more data on these cars? I would like
to reletter it
into my modeling period (late 40's early 50's).

Thanks in advance for any help:

Bill Pardie


Re: MISSOURI PACIFIC DOOR AND A HALF OB AUTO CAR

jerryglow2
 

RMC's old "Rolling Stock Manual" (or whatever it was called) had a picture of one which had always piqued my interest. Martin Loftin wrote an article in RMC about kitbashing it to the single door version which I followed. Westerfield now offers it in the altered version. I like the fact they kept the door track even after replacing the half door.

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@..., WILLIAM PARDIE <PARDIEW001@...> wrote:

Tony Thompson's recent blog concerning updating older cars had me
looking at some
of my early completions. I believe that one of Westerfield's first
resin type kits was
a IGN door and a half automobile car numbered 14035, It had a build
date of 1927.
I built the car and used the supplied decals which had the "as built"
lettering scheme.

Last year in Naperville I picked up a photo from Bob's showing this
car as MP #81322
with a service date of DES 2-51. There was some additional bracing
under the doors and
the brakes had been changed to AB's. Aside from this and the addition
of the second grab
iron the car was exactly the same. Any kit instructions with
prototype data have long been
lost (Actually back then I built kits with little regard for prototype
data as not much was
available. Does anyone have an more data on these cars? I would like
to reletter it
into my modeling period (late 40's early 50's).

Thanks in advance for any help:

Bill Pardie


Re: Semet Solvay Tank Car with platform in Photo Section

Gene <bierglaeser@...>
 

Thank you Tony and Tim.

Would the type of solvent carried in the Semet-Solvay car be the kind used by a paint manufacturer?

Gene Green


Re: Semet Solvay Tank Car with platform in Photo Section

Tim O'Connor
 

The "Solvay Process" is a method to manufacture sodium carbonate.
So in addition to the coal-tar business Semet-Solvay (a subsidiary
of Allied Chemical after 1920) remained heavily involved in the
'alkali chemicals' business too. It's hard to know what the tank
car was used for although solvents is a reasonable guess.

RMJ 7/1997 has a photo of SSLX 253 a Type 27 with a platform, just
like Mike's car except for the car number.

I have a scan of SHPX 5094 "Solvay Process Division" a large ICC 105
chlorine tank car built in the late 1950's. And a scan of SPX 5036
"Solvay Process Company", an insulated tank car with a large dome,
looks like an 8k or 10k tank.

SPX 7002-7010 were insulated 10k tank cars for "caustic potash" still
in service in 1953. Builder photo in TrainShed Cyc #71.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solvay_process
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solvay_Process_Company

Tim O'Connor

At 12/18/2010 06:33 PM Saturday, you wrote:
Gene Green wrote:
Nicely done, Mike. Thanks for posting the photos.
What product was hauled in Semet-Solvay tank cars?
Semet-Solvay essentially made coke from coal, mostly to obtain
the coal-tar chemicals (they also sold the coke). These chemicals
included several solvents such as paint thinner, along with residual
tar used to make asphalt. Richard Hendrickson pointed out that his
photos of Semet-Solvay in no case reveal the kind of spillage which
would correspond to tar or asphalt cargoes, so tank cars like the one
Mike did were evidently used to ship solvents.

Tony Thompson


MISSOURI PACIFIC DOOR AND A HALF OB AUTO CAR

WILLIAM PARDIE
 

Tony Thompson's recent blog concerning updating older cars had me looking at some
of my early completions. I believe that one of Westerfield's first resin type kits was
a IGN door and a half automobile car numbered 14035, It had a build date of 1927.
I built the car and used the supplied decals which had the "as built" lettering scheme.

Last year in Naperville I picked up a photo from Bob's showing this car as MP #81322
with a service date of DES 2-51. There was some additional bracing under the doors and
the brakes had been changed to AB's. Aside from this and the addition of the second grab
iron the car was exactly the same. Any kit instructions with prototype data have long been
lost (Actually back then I built kits with little regard for prototype data as not much was
available. Does anyone have an more data on these cars? I would like to reletter it
into my modeling period (late 40's early 50's).

Thanks in advance for any help:

Bill Pardie


Re: Semet Solvay Tank Car with platform in Photo Section

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Gene Green wrote:
Nicely done, Mike. Thanks for posting the photos.
What product was hauled in Semet-Solvay tank cars?
Semet-Solvay essentially made coke from coal, mostly to obtain the coal-tar chemicals (they also sold the coke). These chemicals included several solvents such as paint thinner, along with residual tar used to make asphalt. Richard Hendrickson pointed out that his photos of Semet-Solvay in no case reveal the kind of spillage which would correspond to tar or asphalt cargoes, so tank cars like the one Mike did were evidently used to ship solvents.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Reading class HTf and HTh hoppers (again)

eddie_walters <eddie_walters@...>
 

Can anyone help?

I've started scratchbuilding my HTh, and I've come up against a minor roadblock - what does the inside of the hopper look like? Also, when were the cars converted to AB brakes (my modeling date is 1940)?

I've got a few photos of the extant car at Strasburg, and the photo from George's website of the in-service car, but these details have proven elusive so far!

Thanks in advance for any help!

Regards

Ed Walters


Re: Semet Solvay Tank Car with platform in Photo Section

Gene <bierglaeser@...>
 

Nicely done, Mike. Thanks for posting the photos.

What product was hauled in Semet-Solvay tank cars?

Gene Green


Re: New resin kit for Hart Ballast cars...

Stuart A. Forsyth <trainmail@...>
 

Thanks, Richard!

Stuart A. Forsyth
forsyth@...
On Dec 18, 2010, at 12:14 PM, Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...> wrote:

On Dec 18, 2010, at 11:01 AM, Stuart A. Forsyth wrote:

Did the ATSF, SP, UP or PE have any of these?
The Santa Fe had one class of early Hart ballast cars, class GA-K,
600 cars built in 1902. But they were 34' cars, not 36', and all
were off the roster by the mid-1920s. The Santa Fe continued to buy
Hart ballast cars in large numbers, but they were 40' cars and each
class was different from the one that preceded it, so there's no easy
solution modeling them.

Richard Hendrickson




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: New resin kit for Hart Ballast cars...

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Dec 18, 2010, at 11:01 AM, Stuart A. Forsyth wrote:

Did the ATSF, SP, UP or PE have any of these?
The Santa Fe had one class of early Hart ballast cars, class GA-K,
600 cars built in 1902. But they were 34' cars, not 36', and all
were off the roster by the mid-1920s. The Santa Fe continued to buy
Hart ballast cars in large numbers, but they were 40' cars and each
class was different from the one that preceded it, so there's no easy
solution modeling them.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: New resin kit for Hart Ballast cars...

npin53
 

Does anyone know what railroads used this particular car?  Is there a prototype photo that could be posted?

thanks,

Cyril Durrenberger
The NP had some in the series 86200-86949. In my 1953 RER, 426 are still listed. I do not have pictures of one..........yet.

Some were rebuilt into all steel cinder cars.

Aaron

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