Date   

Re: C&O auto frame flats

thetrainman00 <thetrainman00@...>
 

Tim and Group,

What time frame is the scan of CNJ 350? I had thought that the CNJ flat cars had the auto frame stacked vertically.

Happy Model Railroading,
Jim Krapf
Modeling the CNJ L&S Div from Treichlers to Mauch Chunk during October 1968


Re: Sunshine Swift Buy More War Bonds reefers

gary laakso
 

The pix on page 189 of the book is at a sharp diagonal so i cant make out the numbers. The 3 cars appear to be of the same class.

gary laakso
south of Mike Brock
vasa0vasa@...

----- Original Message -----
From: Bruce Smith
To: STMFC@...
Sent: 9/15/2010 9:26:07 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Sunshine Swift Buy More War Bonds reefers



John, Richard, folks,

Thanks for the replies! I didn't know that the reefer book had
photos from after the billboard ban! Since I do not have a copy yet,
can you tell me what the numbers of the other 2 cars in the photo
are? Or if they are the same or different construction from the
6306? I need to hit the ORER and some photos to see how the 6300
class compare to the classes Martin offers. From the Sunshine kit
inserts, it appears that the 2500 class were unique construction for
Swift, but the 5200 and 6700 classes were similar to each other and
possibly other Swift reefers... although I have no idea how they
relate to the 6300 class cars.

The red white and blue body seems obvious for this car, so where did
the orange supposedly come in? The lettering?

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

On Sep 14, 2010, at 10:21 PM, sctry wrote:

Bruce,

I think there were at least 4 cars with this scheme. I have a
photos in my collection of SRLX 6306 and 6307. There is a photo in
Richard's book on billboard reefers of the 6306 along with 2
others. Atlas produced this scheme on their 36 foot wood reefer a
couple years ago in 4 numbers and Athearn RTR produced this scheme
on the ex-MDC car back in 2009 in 2 car numbers.

John Greedy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: C&O auto frame flats

water.kresse@...
 

OK, I did find an in-train pix . . . of C&O 216618 with three stacks of 20 horizontally layered frames marked "XXXXXX (top row in the dark) return empty, to MILW RY. and Milwaukee, WIS" on a yellow background (Futura livery).  They have a frame on the top of the stack that ties into four stake-pockets.  C&O HS collection negative CSPR 11791.117 (no caption with date on the back will have to go the C&O HS website).  The bottom frames are sitting on four "X" cross-section tapered pedestals each stack and probably are pinned together between each frame.  So there were two types of auto or truck frame flat cars: with and without the the steel bins to get the pedestals and pins back to the frame manufacturer(s).  From their relative heights next to a regular box car, they might go up to high-cube height.  Soon they would go to longer TTX flats.



Al

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim O'Connor" <timboconnor@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 12:07:12 AM
Subject: [STMFC] C&O auto frame flats

Thought I would check out the C&O ex-PM AAR 70 ton flat cars just
announced by Intermountain, and noticed this: some of these cars were
in auto frame service, notably 216516 and 216518. And here one of the
models is numbered 216513 -- so just change one digit and you're good
to go! Of course it would be great to know whether the C&O stacked
them flat, or upright... :-)

http://imrcmodels.com/flyer330.htm

Tim O'Connor



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: C&O auto frame flats

Donald Ford <ford.donald77@...>
 

Chuck
The PRR had some G27 gons cut down to flats that the frames could be stacked on
top of each other and loaded and unloaded with a fork truck.  Class FG27  There
is also part of a picture of a NYC flat with frame on top of each other on page
45 PRR Color Guide Vol. 1 only about 1/3 of the car is showing

Don Ford
Kanab UT




________________________________
From: Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tue, September 14, 2010 10:29:09 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] C&O auto frame flats

 
On Sep 14, 2010, at 4:24 AM, RUTLANDRS@... wrote:

Tim,
I thought that all the flat car auto frames were stacked
"flat", while
the gons were more or less "upright". Been wrong before.
Chuck Hladik
Chuck, the Santa Fe had some auto frame flats with a rack installed
so the frames could stand diagonally on end. I'll send you a scan
off list.

Richard Hendrickson

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Sunshine Swift Buy More War Bonds reefers

Bruce Smith
 

John, Richard, folks,

Thanks for the replies! I didn't know that the reefer book had photos from after the billboard ban! Since I do not have a copy yet, can you tell me what the numbers of the other 2 cars in the photo are? Or if they are the same or different construction from the 6306? I need to hit the ORER and some photos to see how the 6300 class compare to the classes Martin offers. From the Sunshine kit inserts, it appears that the 2500 class were unique construction for Swift, but the 5200 and 6700 classes were similar to each other and possibly other Swift reefers... although I have no idea how they relate to the 6300 class cars.

The red white and blue body seems obvious for this car, so where did the orange supposedly come in? The lettering?

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

On Sep 14, 2010, at 10:21 PM, sctry wrote:

Bruce,

I think there were at least 4 cars with this scheme. I have a photos in my collection of SRLX 6306 and 6307. There is a photo in Richard's book on billboard reefers of the 6306 along with 2 others. Atlas produced this scheme on their 36 foot wood reefer a couple years ago in 4 numbers and Athearn RTR produced this scheme on the ex-MDC car back in 2009 in 2 car numbers.

John Greedy


Re: C&O auto frame flats

water.kresse@...
 

I believe the ex-PM auto-frame cars were pooled to be returned to Milwaukee or A.O. Smith and probably were set up to travel on the car ferries if necessary.



Al Kresse

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Hawkins" <hawk0621@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2010 12:32:05 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] C&O auto frame flats


On Sep 14, 2010, at 6:24 AM, RUTLANDRS@... wrote:

Tim,
 I thought that all the flat car auto frames were stacked "flat", while
 the gons were more or less "upright". Been wrong before.
 Chuck Hladik
Chuck and Tim,
While automobile frames were probably more likely to be stacked in a
horizontal position on flat cars, they could also be arranged on flat
cars "stacked" in an angled position similar to gondola loading. Photo
examples include ATSF 91215 and MILW 601202 (both photos taken in Los
Angeles dated 8-20-55, available from Bob's Photo). Both cars had
structural bracing attached to the car at one end, either side railings
or steel members extending horizontally through the frames, and
chains/cables to tie down the load.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: NC&StL ACF 40' 'Yellow Stripe' boxcars

Tim O'Connor
 

On my workbench are nearly completed Red Caboose AAR 1937 box car
and Intermountain PS-1 box car in the NC&StL yellow stripe scheme,
both of them custom kits sold by Des Plaines Hobbies. And I have
the Sunshine decals just in case :-)

Tim O'Connor

Bob, RTR HO scale models of those cars have recently been issued with
correct paint and lettering, so the demand for them would not now be
as great as it was a few years ago. Some modelers would certainly
want them, but it's hard to say how many. However, I'm sure you
could sell a small production run if your costs would be within reason.
Richard Hendrickson


Re: C&O auto frame flats

Tim O'Connor
 

Richard and Ed, yes I know about the Santa Fe cars, I have scans
[probably got them from Richard... :-)]

I have a scan from Ebay of CNJ 350, another 70 ton AAR flat car and
it is loaded with 3 horizontal stacks of auto frames. Likewise, I
have a scan of MP 8436 with 3 stacks. RDG 9320 on the other hand,
has an elaborate set up that appears to be for loading auto frames
at an angle like the Santa Fe cars.

I'll go with the 3 stacks for the C&O car, and if I ever find out
otherwise, it should be easy to transfer the load to another model.

Tim O'Connor

Chuck and Tim,
While automobile frames were probably more likely to be stacked in a
horizontal position on flat cars, they could also be arranged on flat
cars "stacked" in an angled position similar to gondola loading. Photo
examples include ATSF 91215 and MILW 601202 (both photos taken in Los
Angeles dated 8-20-55, available from Bob's Photo). Both cars had
structural bracing attached to the car at one end, either side railings
or steel members extending horizontally through the frames, and
chains/cables to tie down the load.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: C&O auto frame flats

Ed Hawkins
 

On Sep 14, 2010, at 6:24 AM, RUTLANDRS@... wrote:

Tim,
I thought that all the flat car auto frames were stacked "flat", while
the gons were more or less "upright". Been wrong before.
Chuck Hladik
Chuck and Tim,
While automobile frames were probably more likely to be stacked in a
horizontal position on flat cars, they could also be arranged on flat
cars "stacked" in an angled position similar to gondola loading. Photo
examples include ATSF 91215 and MILW 601202 (both photos taken in Los
Angeles dated 8-20-55, available from Bob's Photo). Both cars had
structural bracing attached to the car at one end, either side railings
or steel members extending horizontally through the frames, and
chains/cables to tie down the load.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: Sunshine Swift Buy More War Bonds reefers

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Sep 14, 2010, at 8:21 PM, sctry wrote:

Bruce,

I think there were at least 4 cars with this scheme. I have a
photos in my collection of SRLX 6306 and 6307. There is a photo in
Richard's book on billboard reefers of the 6306 along with 2
others. Atlas produced this scheme on their 36 foot wood reefer a
couple years ago in 4 numbers and Athearn RTR produced this scheme
on the ex-MDC car back in 2009 in 2 car numbers.

John Greedy
I will add to this that some of us think the cars were red, white,
and blue and NOT orange, but have no definitive evidence.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: C&O auto frame flats

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Sep 14, 2010, at 4:24 AM, RUTLANDRS@... wrote:

Tim,
I thought that all the flat car auto frames were stacked
"flat", while
the gons were more or less "upright". Been wrong before.
Chuck Hladik
Chuck, the Santa Fe had some auto frame flats with a rack installed
so the frames could stand diagonally on end. I'll send you a scan
off list.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Sunshine Swift Buy More War Bonds reefers

sctry
 

Bruce,

I think there were at least 4 cars with this scheme. I have a photos in my collection of SRLX 6306 and 6307. There is a photo in Richard's book on billboard reefers of the 6306 along with 2 others. Atlas produced this scheme on their 36 foot wood reefer a couple years ago in 4 numbers and Athearn RTR produced this scheme on the ex-MDC car back in 2009 in 2 car numbers.

John Greedy

--- In STMFC@..., "Bruce Smith" <smithbf@...> wrote:

Folks,

Their sheet has 6307 as the example number.

So, how many cars got this scheme, and are the Sunshine cars
prototypical or just "a cool paint scheme"?

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Sunshine Swift Buy More War Bonds reefers

Bruce Smith
 

Folks,

I see in the Naperville infromation that Sunshine will have a special
release of the 2500, 5200 and 6700 Swift reefers in the "red, white,
blue and orange paint with Buy More War Bonds" lettering. Clover house
has produced a dry transfer sheet for the same scheme (although they do
not mention orange). The instructions with the Clover dry transfers say
that "probably only one or two cars in this series have this lettering
scheme, 6100-6599. Their sheet has 6307 as the example number.

So, how many cars got this scheme, and are the Sunshine cars
prototypical or just "a cool paint scheme"?

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Re: NC&StL ACF 40' 'Yellow Stripe' boxcars

Bill Welch
 

Decals in HO for this scheme have been available from Sunshine models for several years for the 1937 standard car, the postwar standard car and the PS-1.

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@..., Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...> wrote:

On Sep 13, 2010, at 11:56 AM, Bob McCarthy wrote:

Richard,

We have recently printed decals for the above boxcars in O and
S. Do you think there would be any desire for them in HO?
Bob, RTR HO scale models of those cars have recently been issued with
correct paint and lettering, so the demand for them would not now be
as great as it was a few years ago. Some modelers would certainly
want them, but it's hard to say how many. However, I'm sure you
could sell a small production run if your costs would be within reason.

Richard Hendrickson



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Gn Ore Jennies

Joseph
 

J,
I can do both either or none as Justin wants.
Joe

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Karl Peters" <krlpeters@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 6:56 PM
To: <STMFC@...>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Gn Ore Jennies






Other titles that may be helpful are:

Great Lakes Ore Docks and Ore Cars
Minnesota-Ontario Ore Railroads
Michigan-Ontario Iron Ore Railroads

All three are authored by Patrick Dorin.

There is also a Yahoo group devoted to modeling iron ore railroads (IronOreModels), and the Yahoo group, Orerail is devoted to the prototype, both current and historical topics.

Karl Peters




------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links




Re: Gn Ore Jennies

krlpeters
 

Other titles that may be helpful are:
 
Great Lakes Ore Docks and Ore Cars
Minnesota-Ontario Ore Railroads
Michigan-Ontario Iron Ore Railroads
 
All three are authored by Patrick Dorin.
 
There is also a Yahoo group devoted to modeling iron ore railroads (IronOreModels), and the Yahoo group, Orerail is devoted to the prototype, both current and historical topics.
 
Karl Peters


Re: NC&StL ACF 40' 'Yellow Stripe' boxcars

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Sep 13, 2010, at 11:56 AM, Bob McCarthy wrote:

Richard,

We have recently printed decals for the above boxcars in O and
S. Do you think there would be any desire for them in HO?
Bob, RTR HO scale models of those cars have recently been issued with
correct paint and lettering, so the demand for them would not now be
as great as it was a few years ago. Some modelers would certainly
want them, but it's hard to say how many. However, I'm sure you
could sell a small production run if your costs would be within reason.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: C&O auto frame flats

water.kresse@...
 

Better question:  Did the C&O ship frames in anything other than ex-PM flats?



I believe the only frames that were stacked angled were in PM gondola cars.  I believe converted auto-frame flats had a steel box at their ends.  I've only seen the Wyoming yard shop pix (less frames) to see if they were  stacked vertically (angled) or flat.



Al Kresse

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim O'Connor" <timboconnor@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 12:07:12 AM
Subject: [STMFC] C&O auto frame flats

Thought I would check out the C&O ex-PM AAR 70 ton flat cars just
announced by Intermountain, and noticed this: some of these cars were
in auto frame service, notably 216516 and 216518. And here one of the
models is numbered 216513 -- so just change one digit and you're good
to go! Of course it would be great to know whether the C&O stacked
them flat, or upright... :-)

http://imrcmodels.com/flyer330.htm

Tim O'Connor



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: RES: 3D printing

John Kellett
 

I don't know about making molds from RP, yet.  I do know some are working on
making some molds.

Here is a link to Shapeways Model Train category 
http://www.shapeways.com/gallery?mg[search][categories]=28&mg[search][clear].  I
have not bought too much, but I do some modeling in Z and I have purchased a few
items from them.  What is interesting, is some of the materials they offer is
stainless steel, glass, and Alumide.

John K.
Saginaw, MI




________________________________
From: cvlk <cvlk@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tue, September 14, 2010 3:22:56 PM
Subject: Re: RES: [STMFC] 3D printing

 
3D printing is possible for mastering..... I've seen N Scale items that were the
equal of state of the art injection molded plastic.

The best process has been the Prefactory which has extremely good resolution and
very little "stair stepping" on curved surfaces. The pieces I am familiar with
are a amber-colored plastic, but I understand there are other resins available
now. One example was a CB&Q SM16 stock car rendered complete in one piece from
the body bolster to the roofwalks.... with the slat openings, etc. all there. Of
course, for a production model, the body would have to be made differently to be
able to be cast in resin, but the detail was spectacular.

The Polyjet process is of a lower resolution, but it can render usable parts. An
example is a GE 45 Tonnner rendered as a complete body... the resolution, while
not as good as the Prefactory, was sufficient to faithfully form the exhaust
stack "flappers"....again, in N Scale!!!!

The problem is that these machines are at the high end of their respective
technologies, and are out of the price range for most Model Railroad
applications. If somebody has more money than brains, it is a great toy..... but
the learning curve on their use is very steep. Even if one has 3D CAD skills
(SolidWorks, etc..) there is a great deal of experimentation necessary to figure
out the best ways of "building" the files up on the machine. Learning how to
position the object and build the supports so everything comes out correctly can
be time consuming... and the consumables are also very expensive in any of these
processes. Even a company that has use for such a machine should go through a
rigorous business case model process to prove the purchase of such a device
(60-100K)...... one has to have a lot of work to utilize any of the machines
capable of turning out Model Railroad quality masters to amortize that level of
investment.

There are service bureaus that can provide the process which may be the best way
to go for most companies until the prices come down and the technologies get to
the point where the machines are truly "desktop 3D printers".


Charlie Vlk
Railroad Model Resources

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: RES: 3D printing

Charlie Vlk
 

3D printing is possible for mastering..... I've seen N Scale items that were the equal of state of the art injection molded plastic.

The best process has been the Prefactory which has extremely good resolution and very little "stair stepping" on curved surfaces. The pieces I am familiar with are a amber-colored plastic, but I understand there are other resins available now. One example was a CB&Q SM16 stock car rendered complete in one piece from the body bolster to the roofwalks.... with the slat openings, etc. all there. Of course, for a production model, the body would have to be made differently to be able to be cast in resin, but the detail was spectacular.

The Polyjet process is of a lower resolution, but it can render usable parts. An example is a GE 45 Tonnner rendered as a complete body... the resolution, while not as good as the Prefactory, was sufficient to faithfully form the exhaust stack "flappers"....again, in N Scale!!!!

The problem is that these machines are at the high end of their respective technologies, and are out of the price range for most Model Railroad applications. If somebody has more money than brains, it is a great toy..... but the learning curve on their use is very steep. Even if one has 3D CAD skills (SolidWorks, etc..) there is a great deal of experimentation necessary to figure out the best ways of "building" the files up on the machine. Learning how to position the object and build the supports so everything comes out correctly can be time consuming... and the consumables are also very expensive in any of these processes. Even a company that has use for such a machine should go through a rigorous business case model process to prove the purchase of such a device (60-100K)...... one has to have a lot of work to utilize any of the machines capable of turning out Model Railroad quality masters to amortize that level of investment.

There are service bureaus that can provide the process which may be the best way to go for most companies until the prices come down and the technologies get to the point where the machines are truly "desktop 3D printers".

Charlie Vlk
Railroad Model Resources

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