Date   

Re: Loads...link to AMB; sorry! (UNCLASSIFIED)

earlyrail
 


I think it's a very thin version of MDF (medium density fiberboard).
At least that's what it looks like to me.

The beam loads are made from a thin cardboard-like material. Many of
the parts are backed with adhesive and, at least the "green monster"
load pretty much assembled w/o glue (I painted mine a more sedate grimy
black). I've found it to take paint well, so it is not paper-like.


This has been discussed over in one of my laser groups.
The material is called PolyBak.
Here is a link www.polybak.com
Available for Northeastern Lumber in 12" x 23" sheets to manufacturers only. Not listed on their web site.
think you will be seeing more of this in place of the 1/64 plywood used for windows etc.

Howard Garner
30 Watt VL300 VersaLaser


Re: Marker brackets on oil-tank cars

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Dec 11, 2010, at 10:20 AM, stvvallee wrote:

Dear Group...

I recently picked up the Februray 1941 issue of RAILROAD
MAGAZINE, and on page 36 in the "Along the Iron Pike" section,
there is an "odd" drawing.

It shows the end of A.T.S.F. tankcar #99921, WITH MARKER
BRACKETS!!!

The caption below the drawing states:

"Marker brackets on oil-tank cars are not very common. This type
equipment hauls fuel to fueling stations for oil-burning engines.
Water-tank cars used as supplementary tenders for locomotives also
carry markers."

Here are my questions:

1). Did any other roads do this?

2). How were these cars handled in trains.
Steve, this must have been done on only one or, at most, a very few
cars for some special purpose. Having written the tank car book in
the Santa Fe Railway Historical & Modeling Society's Rolling Stock
Reference series, I've looked at literally hundreds of Santa Fe tank
car photos, and not one shows marker brackets such as you describe.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Larry Jackman 1931-2009

Tim O'Connor
 

Tom

It was always interesting to hear what Larry had to say -- here
is a 2008 post of his concerning AAR rules for car loading:

"When I was a clerk on the Un Pac At Topeka and Salina Ks we never
followed the rules. If a box car was not marked return to XXX when
empty we used the empty cars as we wanted. The lead engine would put
the empties in to a track. Then if 40 cars were needed for loading at
various industries the house engine would pull the first 40 cars from
which ever end of the track and spot them where ever they were
ordered. Nobody cared who owned the car. To us it was an out bound load.
Once in a while there was a note about a car going the wrong the
wrong direction. We would read the note and continue as we wanted."
-- Larry Jackman, 8/13/2008

On the Passenger Car List yesterday, Bill McCoy mentioned "the late Larry Jackman". Further digging uncovered a Social Security death notice for Lawrence Albert Jackman, born 12/11/1931, died 6/9/2009 in Pierce, WA. The notice says previous records can be found at Boca Raton, FL.

This seems to be "our" Larry, and it appears that his passing was not unknown in the RR hobby community. But it was never noted on the STMFC List, which is the reason for this post.

Tom Madden

"I started with nothing, and still have most of it left." Larry Jackman


Re: WP 50' SS DD auto/boxcar series 19201-19250

Guy Wilber
 

Joseph inquired:

My question is on the P/L scheme for the door markings (if any) for; number of tubes, type rack, and location of the white bar indicating auto rack equipped. Secondly would this car have the word "automobile" like it's sister cars in the 13001-13100 (40001-40100) series. I model Oct. 1949.





Joseph,

The Western Pacific 19201-19250 series were equipped with Evans Type "D" racks with wide wheel pans suitable for both auto and truck loading. All 50 cars were in service for several years beginning in 1937, but the number of cars was reduced to 39 by the time period you model. The following cars were not equipped in April of 1949: 19205, 207, 210, 212, 217, 223, 232, 246, 248, 249, and 250. The same cars are also not listed in April of 1950. As an aside, all the WP 40' cars equipped with Auto~Loaders were out of service by the date of your modeling era.

The series was equipped with 12 floor tubes, and/or "U" floor tie downs. In the case of early loaders there often were only 8 floor tubes along with 4 floor tie downs. Regardless, the door marking would show the Type "D", Type "T" or type "DT" (depending on how WP chose to stencil the car) below the standard 3" white stripe along with the numeral 12 to indicate the number of floor tubes and tie downs. Within the white stripe the inside height at center (10' 6" in this case) would be stenciled in black. Western Pacific reported the cars as being equipped with "DT" racks so I would presume they stenciled the cars as such. Cars not repainted may still have a rectangular box (24" wide x 8" deep) extending down, centered on the white stripe. This was the pre 1939 method of indicating a 50' car was equipped with racks having wide wheel pans.

The Western Pacific Headlight article penned by John Ryckowski has photos and lettering diagrams for the auto cars. My copy, along with photos is in storage at the moment, but another WP fan or collector may be able to supply you with further information.

Regards,

Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Larry Jackman 1931-2009

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tom Madden wrote:
On the Passenger Car List yesterday, Bill McCoy mentioned "the late Larry Jackman". Further digging uncovered a Social Security death notice for Lawrence Albert Jackman, born 12/11/1931, died 6/9/2009 in Pierce, WA. The notice says previous records can be found at Boca Raton, FL.
This seems to be "our" Larry, and it appears that his passing was not unknown in the RR hobby community. But it was never noted on the STMFC List, which is the reason for this post.

"I started with nothing, and still have most of it left." Larry Jackman
Thanks, Tom. The fact we hadn't heard from Larry for months made me think he must have passed on, particularly since his last post to the list, early in 2009 IIRC, said he had made his "last journey" back to Washington state. He was an irrepressible and endlessly interesting part of this list, and I've missed him. I think the mold was broken after Larry was made.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: PROPER TRUCKS

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Dec 11, 2010, at 10:54 AM, WILLIAM PARDIE wrote:

Thanks to some excellent decals from Gerald Glow i will be able to
complete a Missouri Pacific 45' panel side gondola. I would
appreciate
any recommendations as to the most accurate truck currently on the
market for this car.
Those were AAR 50 ton self-aligning spring-plankless trucks. Tahoe
Model Works' TMW 107 or 207 double truss AAR trucks have the correct
side frame configuration and spring arrangement, and though the MP
trucks weren't double truss, that feature on the Tahoe trucks is
subtle and can be ignored (or the slight ribs that show on top of the
lower chords can be shaved off with a very sharp hobby knife).

At the same time I would like to upgrade the trucks on q Union Pacific
F-50-11 flat car (Richard Hendrickson's kit).
Those trucks were AAR with spring planks and Barber lateral motion
devices. Use Tahoe Model Works' TMW 109/209. (The difference
between TMW 100 series and 200 series is wheelsets; the 200 series
trucks come with code 88 semi-scale wheelsets.)

Richard Hendrickson


Larry Jackman 1931-2009

pullmanboss <tcmadden@...>
 

On the Passenger Car List yesterday, Bill McCoy mentioned "the late Larry Jackman". Further digging uncovered a Social Security death notice for Lawrence Albert Jackman, born 12/11/1931, died 6/9/2009 in Pierce, WA. The notice says previous records can be found at Boca Raton, FL.

This seems to be "our" Larry, and it appears that his passing was not unknown in the RR hobby community. But it was never noted on the STMFC List, which is the reason for this post.

Tom Madden

"I started with nothing, and still have most of it left." Larry Jackman


Re: Rates and Routes

Tim O'Connor
 

There's more to it Bill. You are right that the document on file specified
an origin, destination, route and price. The document is called a TARIFF.
Once a TARIFF was filed, however, any other railroads (or railroads) were
free to offer to SERVE that origin, destination, and price over their own
routes. This is what made it possible for the whole brokerage business to
work!! A route could be specified from Portland OR to Chicago IL by way of
the Midland Continental in South Dakota (one of the diversionary lumber
brokerage routes) only because the MC signed up for the Portland-Chicago
tariff (in coordination with other diversionary participants).

In other words, since filing and approval of the TARIFF was an expensive
and lengthy process through the ICC, it was much easier to have one tariff
for say, yak fat from Council Bluffs to Chicago -- and then any of the railroads
that served those stations -- C&NW, RI, MILW, WABASH, CB&Q, CGW, IC -- could
service that tariff without having to file more expensive paperwork with the
ICC. But just because a railroad had an available route -- say WABASH -- it
was not obligated to sign on to that particular tariff. (The Wabash route was
much less direct than C&NW for example.)

The example I gave of Peoria-->KansasCity-->StLouis came from an actual case
where the C&NW had a tariff for some cargo from Peoria-->StLouis, and the Rock
Island signed on to that tariff even though it had a very indirect route! There
are other more recent examples that are even more extreme, doubling or even
tripling mileage compared to the shortest route.

Tim O'Connor



Rates and routes could be a loose cannon. All rates in the regulated days had applicable routes. In the case of scale mileage (docket 28300) rates routing was pretty much open. If there was a physical connection between two railroads you could route that way to give the last guy to buy you lunch some business. These routes were especially popular with lumber shippers who operated through a broker structure and would resell the car as many as 3 times (while enroute, the maximum number of diversions allowed)depending on market conditions. Slowness was a big premimum and most shippers and brokers were quite sophisticated in what routes and gateways were applicable. They would be very specific about the route specified. On the other hand many rates were more restrictive in their routing options and specifing route only without specifing the applicable rate could result in a route - route conflict which would be settled at the destination by applying a combination of high local rates
constructed via the specified route. It could be an expensive omission. If both rate and route were specified on the bill of lading then it was incumbent on the carrier to verify that there was no conflict or if there was reject the B/L. My advice was to all shippers in my SCL salesman days was if you wanted a specific route used, that you rate the B/L too.

Initially B/Ls were filled out by the local freight agent on the shippers instructions. Later this morphed into most shippers doing this work themselves. When I started with the SAL in 1966 the standard Uniform Straight Bill of Lading railroads provided the shipper were a 6 part manifold form. The first three pages were the original B/L, then 3 waybills, followed by the shipping order and memorandun B/L. The carrierkept the shipping order and W/Bs. the shipper got the B/Ls back as his proof of benifical ownership of the shipment and authority to divert the cars, flle claims, etc. Big shippers had their own B/Ls printed.

Bill McCoy
Jax, FL


PROPER TRUCKS

WILLIAM PARDIE
 

Thanks to some excellent decals from Gerald Glow i will be able to
complete a Missouri Pacific 45' panel side gondola. I would appreciate
any recommendations as to the most accurate truck currently on the
market for this car. Also does anyone know if the interior of this car was
painted.

At the same time I would like to upgrade the trucks on q Union Pacific
F-50-11 flat car (Richard Hendrickson's kit).

Thanks in advance for any gelp:

Bill Pardie


Re: Rates and Routes

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Bill McCoy wrote:
Rates and routes could be a loose cannon. All rates in the regulated days had applicable routes. In the case of scale mileage (docket 28300) rates routing was pretty much open . . . On the other hand many rates were more restrictive in their routing options and specifing route only without specifing the applicable rate could result in a route - route conflict which would be settled at the destination by applying a combination of high local rates constructed via the specified route. It could be an expensive omission. If both rate and route were specified on the bill of lading then it was incumbent on the carrier to verify that there was no conflict or if there was reject the B/L. My advice was to all shippers in my SCL salesman days was if you wanted a specific route used, that you rate the B/L too.
My understanding is that east of the Mississippi there was such dense coverage by intersecting railroads that routing was not a serious problem, but the western part of the country was much less so, and the approved routes had to be studied to make sure a desired routing would work. And many times particular tariffs were applied to certain routings and/or gateways, usually in an effort by one railroad to capture business from others. A routing book was then as well- thumbed as the tariff.

Initially B/Ls were filled out by the local freight agent on the shippers instructions. Later this morphed into most shippers doing this work themselves. When I started with the SAL in 1966 the standard Uniform Straight Bill of Lading railroads provided the shipper were a 6 part manifold form. The first three pages were the original B/L, then 3 waybills, followed by the shipping order and memorandun B/L.
This is interesting to me, Bill, because in the 1950s the standard AAR forms for B/L and waybill were NOT identical (AAR forms 98 and 129) and couldn't have been part of a manifold form. And in E.W. Coughlin's book on _Freight Car Distribution and Handling_ which was published in 1956, he is quite clear that the shipper is to submit the B/L to the railroad, which will in turn prepare the waybill. The method you describe sounds much more efficient, but perhaps reflects post-1960 procedures.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Marker brackets on oil-tank cars

Steve Vallee
 

Dear Group...

I recently picked up the Februray 1941 issue of RAILROAD MAGAZINE, and on page 36 in the "Along the Iron Pike" section, there is an "odd" drawing.

It shows the end of A.T.S.F. tankcar #99921, WITH MARKER BRACKETS!!!

The caption below the drawing states:

"Marker brackets on oil-tank cars are not very common. This type equipment hauls fuel to fueling stations for oil-burning engines.
Water-tank cars used as supplementary tenders for locomotives also carry markers."

Here are my questions:

1). Did any other roads do this?

2). How were these cars handled in trains.

Thanks in advance.

Steve Vallee


Interesting View

Steve and Barb Hile
 

Bumped into this on eBay. Thought others might like to see it.



Steve Hile



http://cgi.ebay.com/4x5-PHOTO-NEGATIVE-1952-Centennial-Bridge-Rock-Island-/3
30506702955?pt=Art_Photo_Images
<http://cgi.ebay.com/4x5-PHOTO-NEGATIVE-1952-Centennial-Bridge-Rock-Island-/
330506702955?pt=Art_Photo_Images&hash=item4cf3bc106b> &hash=item4cf3bc106b


Re: medium density fiberboard (was Re: Loads...link to AMB; sorry! (UNCLASSIFIED))

Don Burn
 

Gene,

Medium density fiberboard (MDF) is available at many lumber yards. MDF
does not cut with a hobby knife (at least in any thickness I've
encountered), and the only thing messier than MDF to cut is homasote. All
the recommendations are use a respirator and be where there is good airflow
since the dust from MDF is nasty. Finally the stuff is really heavy, the
3/4 inch thick stuff I've used was several times the weight of an equivalent
pine board.

Don Burn

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2010 10:42 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] medium density fiberboard (was Re: Loads...link to AMB;
sorry! (UNCLASSIFIED))

Is "medium density fiberboard" available to ordinary modelers?
Does it cut cleanly with a hobby knife?
Gene Green



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: medium density fiberboard (was Re: Loads...link to AMB; sorry! (UNCLASSIFIED))

Al and Patricia Westerfield <westerfield@...>
 

Gene - I use Task Board http://www.taskboard.com/index.html, available in many thicknesses and sizes. - Al Westerfield

----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2010 9:42 AM
Subject: [STMFC] medium density fiberboard (was Re: Loads...link to AMB; sorry! (UNCLASSIFIED))



Is "medium density fiberboard" available to ordinary modelers?
Does it cut cleanly with a hobby knife?
Gene Green


Re: Loads...link to AMB; sorry! (UNCLASSIFIED)

Pierre <pierre.oliver@...>
 

If the material you're describing is what I think it is, what you are actually looking at was described to me as a resin impregnated paper.
AMB did a special run of brake levers for using that material. Neat stuff!
Pierre Oliver

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


I think it's a very thin version of MDF (medium density fiberboard).
At least that's what it looks like to me.


The beam loads are made from a thin cardboard-like material. Many of
the parts are backed with adhesive and, at least the "green monster"
load pretty much assembled w/o glue (I painted mine a more sedate grimy
black). I've found it to take paint well, so it is not paper-like.

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Re: EJ&E help needed

jamietoman
 

How about this site, "ejearchive.com". Hope it helps, J

--- On Sat, 12/11/10, jerryglow@... <jerryglow@...> wrote:


From: jerryglow@... <jerryglow@...>
Subject: [STMFC] EJ&E help needed
To: STMFC@...
Date: Saturday, December 11, 2010, 7:10 AM


 



A customer pointed out a photo of EJ&E booxcar #61036 for which I would like to develop a decal set. I have no information on the car other than finding it in my 7-50 ORER. It's cubic footage would lead me to believe it was an AAR 37 car yet it does not appear in the tabulation of those cars on the STMFC site and is a 12 panel car. Any help?

Jerry Glow
http://home.comcast.net/~jerryglow/decals.html











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


medium density fiberboard (was Re: Loads...link to AMB; sorry! (UNCLASSIFIED))

Gene <bierglaeser@...>
 

Is "medium density fiberboard" available to ordinary modelers?
Does it cut cleanly with a hobby knife?
Gene Green


Re: Iron Modeler, was RDG/ Southern box car questions

SUVCWORR@...
 

Tim,

Kline and Culotta pg 155 is a side shot of a B&O W-2. This should be available from the NMRA.

There are also shots of similar CTSE and B&M hoppers on pg 158

Rich Orr

-----Original Message-----
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sat, Dec 11, 2010 1:03 am
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Iron Modeler, was RDG/ Southern box car questions


Good idea Bruce! I've been trying to find good pictures of the B&O

quad to model that one. I have a couple of scans of MP quads, and a

nice shot my Dad took of a Texas & Northern quad.



http://www.piedmontsub.com/Hopper.shtml



Tim O'Connor





HOWEVER, a suitable prototype car is sitting right here in front of me,
the venerable Athearn Quad. As I understand it, it is perfect for a
number of pre-WWII hoppers, especially the B&M, B&O, C&O, DL&W, Erie,
MEC, M-K-T, MP, etc... And I see it as a definite sow's ear that could
be a silk purse...
So hows about we take this "sows ear" conversion discussion over to the
comatose Virtual Modeler's list and have some fun <VBG>??
Regards
Chef Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL






------------------------------------



Yahoo! Groups Links



http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/



Individual Email | Traditional



http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/join

(Yahoo! ID required)



STMFC-digest@...

STMFC-fullfeatured@...



STMFC-unsubscribe@...



http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


EJ&E help needed

jerryglow2
 

A customer pointed out a photo of EJ&E booxcar #61036 for which I would like to develop a decal set. I have no information on the car other than finding it in my 7-50 ORER. It's cubic footage would lead me to believe it was an AAR 37 car yet it does not appear in the tabulation of those cars on the STMFC site and is a 12 panel car. Any help?

Jerry Glow
http://home.comcast.net/~jerryglow/decals.html


Rates and Routes

Bill McCoy
 

Rates and routes could be a loose cannon. All rates in the regulated days had applicable routes. In the case of scale mileage (docket 28300) rates routing was pretty much open. If there was a physical connection between two railroads you could route that way to give the last guy to buy you lunch some business. These routes were especially popular with lumber shippers who operated through a broker structure and would resell the car as many as 3 times (while enroute, the maximum number of diversions allowed)depending on market conditions. Slowness was a big premimum and most shippers and brokers were quite sophisticated in what routes and gateways were applicable. They would be very specific about the route specified. On the other hand many rates were more restrictive in their routing options and specifing route only without specifing the applicable rate could result in a route - route conflict which would be settled at the destination by applying a combination of high local rates constructed via the specified route. It could be an expensive omission. If both rate and route were specified on the bill of lading then it was incumbent on the carrier to verify that there was no conflict or if there was reject the B/L. My advice was to all shippers in my SCL salesman days was if you wanted a specific route used, that you rate the B/L too.

Initially B/Ls were filled out by the local freight agent on the shippers instructions. Later this morphed into most shippers doing this work themselves. When I started with the SAL in 1966 the standard Uniform Straight Bill of Lading railroads provided the shipper were a 6 part manifold form. The first three pages were the original B/L, then 3 waybills, followed by the shipping order and memorandun B/L. The carrierkept the shipping order and W/Bs. the shipper got the B/Ls back as his proof of benifical ownership of the shipment and authority to divert the cars, flle claims, etc. Big shippers had their own B/Ls printed.

Bill McCoy
Jax, FL

101661 - 101680 of 196895