Date   

EJ&E help needed

jerryglow2
 

A customer pointed out a photo of EJ&E booxcar #61036 for which I would like to develop a decal set. I have no information on the car other than finding it in my 7-50 ORER. It's cubic footage would lead me to believe it was an AAR 37 car yet it does not appear in the tabulation of those cars on the STMFC site and is a 12 panel car. Any help?

Jerry Glow
http://home.comcast.net/~jerryglow/decals.html


Rates and Routes

Bill McCoy
 

Rates and routes could be a loose cannon. All rates in the regulated days had applicable routes. In the case of scale mileage (docket 28300) rates routing was pretty much open. If there was a physical connection between two railroads you could route that way to give the last guy to buy you lunch some business. These routes were especially popular with lumber shippers who operated through a broker structure and would resell the car as many as 3 times (while enroute, the maximum number of diversions allowed)depending on market conditions. Slowness was a big premimum and most shippers and brokers were quite sophisticated in what routes and gateways were applicable. They would be very specific about the route specified. On the other hand many rates were more restrictive in their routing options and specifing route only without specifing the applicable rate could result in a route - route conflict which would be settled at the destination by applying a combination of high local rates constructed via the specified route. It could be an expensive omission. If both rate and route were specified on the bill of lading then it was incumbent on the carrier to verify that there was no conflict or if there was reject the B/L. My advice was to all shippers in my SCL salesman days was if you wanted a specific route used, that you rate the B/L too.

Initially B/Ls were filled out by the local freight agent on the shippers instructions. Later this morphed into most shippers doing this work themselves. When I started with the SAL in 1966 the standard Uniform Straight Bill of Lading railroads provided the shipper were a 6 part manifold form. The first three pages were the original B/L, then 3 waybills, followed by the shipping order and memorandun B/L. The carrierkept the shipping order and W/Bs. the shipper got the B/Ls back as his proof of benifical ownership of the shipment and authority to divert the cars, flle claims, etc. Big shippers had their own B/Ls printed.

Bill McCoy
Jax, FL


Re: ebooks wager (was RDG/ Southern box car questions)

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
OK, Tony, you got me to go looking through my emails for the wager about ebooks -- and it was TWO beers, to be paid at the 2011 Naperville, based on the statement BELOW, which was originally mailed on May 5, 2001, about 9 1/2 years ago.
Okay, you're right. See you in Naperville next year--if it comes off.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Wanted: Blue box offset side hopper

Tim O'Connor
 

Jim

No kidding?? If true, this would be a watershed event. I was sure
there must be 19 million unbuilt blue box kits in basements around
the world, but if you're right, this is stunning news! I'll sell
you one of mine as a RARE OUT OF PRODUCTION COLLECTOR'S ITEM WITH
AUTHENTIC ORIGINAL BOX! :-)

Tim O'Connor

I'd like to build a Sunshine Mini-Kit for the Rock Island Covered Silica
Hopper. It calls for an Athearn 5400 Undec 34' offset side hopper.

Does anyone have one? Undec or decorated, new or used.

Whatever happened to all the blue box kits? Are they under the table at
train shows? What did the hobby shops do with their stock?

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon
www.sunshinekits.com


Re: RDG/ Southern box car questions

Tim O'Connor
 

Ben

Yes, Stan is a real Michelangelo when it comes to that -- I look at
a block of wood and see a block of wood, Stan sees a beautiful freight
car and just removes all the stuff that prevents us from seeing it!
When it comes to those Model Power things, I only see ammunition for
the next "Tyco Toss" ...

Tim O'Connor

At 12/10/2010 09:40 PM Friday, you wrote:
Tim O'Connor wrote:
"Yes Ben, you're just too talented for my meager skills... No way
could I produce a 5-star model from that piece of junk. I bow to your
genius."

I'll take that as a statement of respect instead of the sarcasm that it undoubtedly is. Actually, the guy you need to worry about is Rydarowicz. Any man who can turn models such as Penn Line TOFC flats and Gilbert reefers into beautiful prototype models and freely share his work is truly a genius.

Ben Hom


Re: ebooks wager (was RDG/ Southern box car questions)

Tim O'Connor
 

OK, Tony, you got me to go looking through my emails for the wager
about ebooks -- and it was TWO beers, to be paid at the 2011 Naperville,
based on the statement BELOW, which was originally mailed on May 5, 2001,
about 9 1/2 years ago.

I found a few other posts from you, Hussey, Hendrickson, and Barkan
commenting on our wager... and a 2006 email from you claiming that
you'd already won the prize and that it had now become a 6-pack. :-)

Granted, pretty picture books of freight cars are only available as
DVD's and CD's now, as well as printed books, but that wasn't exactly
the bet. And we have almost a year until Naperville 2011...

============================================================

Tony Thompson wrote: (THE BET)

I believe that not only is this changeover not imminent, it's not going
to be here in 10 years either. So to me, "changeover" means a great many
books available AND SELLING in e-book versions, with paper book sales
falling steadily. And not just tech manuals, either. Bookstore books.
=============================================================


Wanted: Blue box offset side hopper

Jim Hayes
 

I'd like to build a Sunshine Mini-Kit for the Rock Island Covered Silica
Hopper. It calls for an Athearn 5400 Undec 34' offset side hopper.

Does anyone have one? Undec or decorated, new or used.

Whatever happened to all the blue box kits? Are they under the table at
train shows? What did the hobby shops do with their stock?

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon
www.sunshinekits.com


Re: Iron Modeler, was RDG/ Southern box car questions

Tim O'Connor
 

Good idea Bruce! I've been trying to find good pictures of the B&O
quad to model that one. I have a couple of scans of MP quads, and a
nice shot my Dad took of a Texas & Northern quad.

http://www.piedmontsub.com/Hopper.shtml

Tim O'Connor

HOWEVER, a suitable prototype car is sitting right here in front of me,
the venerable Athearn Quad. As I understand it, it is perfect for a
number of pre-WWII hoppers, especially the B&M, B&O, C&O, DL&W, Erie,
MEC, M-K-T, MP, etc... And I see it as a definite sow's ear that could
be a silk purse...

So hows about we take this "sows ear" conversion discussion over to the
comatose Virtual Modeler's list and have some fun <VBG>??

Regards
Chef Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Re: RDG/ Southern box car questions

Tim O'Connor
 

In time for Cocoa Beach? I was thinking more along the lines of
modeling a car that caught fire and burned down to the trucks...

At 12/10/2010 07:22 PM Friday, you wrote:
A piece of roof, end, and side sticking out from the mud and/or under other
better-detailed cars at a derailment site, perhaps?

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


Yes Ben, you're just too talented for my meager skills... No way could
I produce a 5-star model from that piece of junk. I bow to your genius.


Tim O'Connor wrote:
"So you're saying take a sow's ear, and see which one of us
produces the least distasteful result?? I guess this is why
I've never seen "Iron Chef"... I'm more of a Julia Child fan,
preferring to start with only high quality ingredients. :-)"

Actually, you're missing out. The chefs, especially the ones in the original
Japanese version, actually produce some five star cuisine more often than not,
and creativity, skill, and knowledge are what gets tested on the show. If
you're saying you're not up to the challenge, then we all understand.

Ben Hom


Re: Loads...link to AMB; sorry! (UNCLASSIFIED)

Tim O'Connor
 

I think it's a very thin version of MDF (medium density fiberboard).
At least that's what it looks like to me.

The beam loads are made from a thin cardboard-like material. Many of
the parts are backed with adhesive and, at least the "green monster"
load pretty much assembled w/o glue (I painted mine a more sedate grimy
black). I've found it to take paint well, so it is not paper-like.

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Re: Unsuual routings?

Tim O'Connor
 

Ok, but I was trying to get to Ft Madison, not Davenport...

At 12/10/2010 04:54 PM Friday, you wrote:
I wrote:
Des Moines? Why? Their route from Albert Lea via Cedar Falls to
Dubuque is quite direct to Chicago.
I should have said, of course, via Cedar Falls to Davenport, not
Dubuque.

Tony Thompson


Re: Unsuual routings?

Tim O'Connor
 

Are we talking about the Rock Island Tony? They didn't go
near Dubuque as far as I know.

Des Moines? Why? Their route from Albert Lea via Cedar Falls
to Dubuque is quite direct to Chicago.

Tony Thompson


Re: Unsual routings?

Tim O'Connor
 

Doug, I was thinking of the MILW line the follows the Mississippi
down to Clinton Iowa, then CB&Q to Fort Madison and the Santa Fe...
but you're right none of the routes is direct to Fort Madison. I
just picked that as a spot to give ATSF a longer haul to Chicago
than say, Streator, or Galesburg.

It's not clear to me looking at a map that the BCR&N line via Cedar
Rapids is shorter (and probably definitely not faster) than the main
line Mason City to Des Moines and from there via Ottumwa IA down to
a point of interchange with ATSF.

Tim O'

Interesting, Tim shows he does not know his railroad geography. To get to
Fort Madison IA from Minnesota by rail is not easy, nor direct. Fort Madison
was served by the ATSF and the CB&Q. The ATSF line going from Kansas City to
Chicago, nowhere near Minnesota. The CBQ line coming up along the river from
St. Louis to Burlington IA, again nowhere near Minnesota. The most direct
routing from Minnesota would have been the MW-RI-CBQ to Fort Madison, via
the old BCR&N line.

Doug Harding (who now lives 40miles from Fort Madison)

www.iowacentralrr.org


WP 50' SS DD auto/boxcar series 19201-19250

bowie1793
 

While waiting for the paint to dry on my Roundhouse 50' SS boxcar that I would have numbered in the 12001-12150 series (no end door), I nearly overlooked the fifty cars renumbered to 19201-19251 from the original series after having Evans auto racks installed.

My question is on the P/L scheme for the door markings (if any) for; number of tubes, type rack, and location of the white bar indicating auto rack equipped. Secondly would this car have the word "automobile" like it's sister cars in the 13001-13100 (40001-40100) series. I model Oct. 1949.

Having carved off all the molded on items, utilizing Archer rivets, after market parts and styrene, it came out all right. I wouldn't mind turning this into an autocar if possible but if not, it's still a decent boxcar. Thanks for any input.

Joseph Jacques


Re: Unsual routings?

Douglas Harding
 

Interesting, Tim shows he does not know his railroad geography. To get to
Fort Madison IA from Minnesota by rail is not easy, nor direct. Fort Madison
was served by the ATSF and the CB&Q. The ATSF line going from Kansas City to
Chicago, nowhere near Minnesota. The CBQ line coming up along the river from
St. Louis to Burlington IA, again nowhere near Minnesota. The most direct
routing from Minnesota would have been the MW-RI-CBQ to Fort Madison, via
the old BCR&N line.



And the RI would not have to go to Des Moines to get to Chicago from
Minnesota. There was a RI line from Manly Iowa that went to West Liberty IA
via Cedar Rapids. Also known as the BCR&N line.



If the routing from the example cited by Clark had been MW-MSTL-ATSF (at
Nemo IL) -PRR (at Peoria) then we could say the SFRD car actually traveled
on ATSF tracks, but it would not have gone through Fort Madison, without
going back west. Nemo was a major interchange for the ATSF for traffic to
Minnesota and the Twin Cities. The M&StL hauled a lot of SFRD reefers.



Doug Harding (who now lives 40miles from Fort Madison)

www.iowacentralrr.org


Re: Unsual routings?

SUVCWORR@...
 

Yes. The PRR interchanged with RI at Chicago, East St Louis, St. Louis vIa TRRA, Englewood, Peoria and Washington Heights, IL.

Rich Orr

-----Original Message-----
From: cepropst@q.com
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Fri, Dec 10, 2010 4:15 pm
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Unsual routings?




The car came from west of the Twin Cities. That's why the MNS took it down to

Northfield for the Rock Island who may well have taken it to Peoria? Was the

Pennsy there?



The other car went to Chicago.

Clark Propst

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Ok, so it was routed via Rock Island from the MNS. Interesting, since >that is
even more circuitous >

Tim O'Connor








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Re: Loads...link to AMB; sorry! (UNCLASSIFIED)

Jim Hayes
 

The resin impregnated stiff paper has a smooth plastic-like finish. It's
nice stuff but very light.

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon
www.sunshinekits.com


On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 3:14 PM, Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...> wrote:



Does it look like painted metal or painted "cardboard-like material"? I've
never been impressed with wood structures because 1:1 wood just doesn't
look
like 1:87 wood, even painted.

KL

----- Original Message -----
From: Bruce Smith

The beam loads are made from a thin cardboard-like material. Many of
the parts are backed with adhesive and, at least the "green monster"
load pretty much assembled w/o glue (I painted mine a more sedate grimy
black). I've found it to take paint well, so it is not paper-like.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: RDG/ Southern box car questions

James F. Brewer <jfbrewer@...>
 

Gosh...I thought Tim was just sayin' he ain't buying any beer!



Jim Brewer

Glenwood MD

----- Original Message -----
From: "benjaminfrank_hom" <b.hom@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 9:40:14 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: RDG/ Southern box car questions

 




Tim O'Connor wrote:
"Yes Ben, you're just too talented for my meager skills... No way
could I produce a 5-star model from that piece of junk. I bow to your
genius."

I'll take that as a statement of respect instead of the sarcasm that it undoubtedly is. Actually, the guy you need to worry about is Rydarowicz. Any man who can turn models such as Penn Line TOFC flats and Gilbert reefers into beautiful prototype models and freely share his work is truly a genius.

Ben Hom




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: RDG/ Southern box car questions

Benjamin Hom
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
"Yes Ben, you're just too talented for my meager skills... No way
could I produce a 5-star model from that piece of junk. I bow to your
genius."

I'll take that as a statement of respect instead of the sarcasm that it undoubtedly is. Actually, the guy you need to worry about is Rydarowicz. Any man who can turn models such as Penn Line TOFC flats and Gilbert reefers into beautiful prototype models and freely share his work is truly a genius.


Ben Hom


Re: Unsual routings?

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Greg Martin wrote:
Tim specifically ask "the exact route" and I would say not always, the person who ordered the car was told that the car was "finaling on the PRR in NY" but might not know the exact route that the car was taking i.e., Benson tells his secretary "Betty, call Smith and order up two cars, one for Philly and one for N.Y. I am going to lunch..." it's that simple... and she does what she is told.
Keep in mind that if Benson's company ships all the time to Philly and New York, a plausible idea since all are Green Giant facilities in this case, what Benson likely says to Betty is, "Betty, call Smith and order two cars, Philly and New York, usual route." Nobody had to figure out the routing or the applicable tariff because it's stuff they ship ALL THE TIME.

And Tony's correct. The local clerk would contact the car distributor and the car distributor would instruct the clerk to supply, "those two Santa Fe cars you have and I'll call Williams at the Santa Fe and get his Okay..."
Back in the day, it's just as likely that the car distributor tells the clerk, "use those two SFRD cars, always nice to screw the Santa Fe" or words to that effect (this tended to apply to ALL big roads, I'm not singling out Santa Fe), since he knows perfectly well (a) that Santa Fe wants 'em back and (b) car service rules are against it. He of course is supplying his shipper with quality cars, so Green Giant sure won't complain. Personal and organizational feuds and grievances could always play a role, and when you interview folks from those days, you hear it plenty. And his boss will NEVER get on his back because of Rule Zero.
Reading books, and articles in _Railway Age_ from that era, it's clear that violations of car service rules were pretty common, more so than most authorities liked, but I never saw anything about fines actually being applied. Remember that the Car Service rules were either mandatory or recommendatory--most were the latter, only a few the former.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

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