Date   

Re: What's on your work bench?

Gary Ray
 

Side tracked by a death in the family last week. Found a few hours early
this morning to finish filing points for 26 #6 switches. Also completing 4
#8 switches. Before having to go out of town, had 27 locos on the dining
room table and ordered some of the parts to backdate to 1926 and install
decoders and lighting. Ordered enough parts to do 6 backdates(McKeen, C-8,
SP-2, F-3, P-1, P-10). Cleaning off dining table to keep my wife happy
when she returns and moving the 6 to the workbench where there are 3 almost
finished Walthers cabooses and 4 Westerfield kits that are almost done. Had
trouble finding the correct pilots for SP C-8/9's. Sent a picture to
Precision Scale to see if they could help. They may have a PIA part that
would work. Would appreciate any help in finding the appropriate pilots.
Thanks,
Gary


Re: What's on your work bench?

Marty McGuirk
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Paul" <buygone@...> wrote:

Marty:
Are you trying to start a "Can You Top This" with this statement?
Paul,

Hardly,

Anyone can BUY the fool things . . . getting to the point where you have no more left to BUILD is the challenge. <g>


Marty


Re: What's on your work bench?

Paul <buygone@...>
 

Marty:



Are you trying to start a "Can You Top This" with this statement?





"I can't WAIT to get back to building freight cars - I must have close to
100 kits stashed away . . .

Marty"



Paul C. Koehler


Re: What's on your work bench?

Marty McGuirk
 

Let's see . . .

There's about 8 opened Micro-Engineering no. 6 turnout packages - need to save the headblocks and detail sprues . . . a couple of Central Valley turnout tie strips, a bunch of little pieces of ME code 70 and 55 track - a few spools of wire - some new, some empty - three bags of 3-M Scotchlok connectors of various sizes - and somewhere under it all a Sunshine "door prize" CB&Q flat car - that needs trucks and couplers installed before heading for the paint shop.

Obviously, I need to clear off the modeling bench - and finish the trackwork and wiring on the layout - two tasks that have dominated my hobby time for the last year.

I can't WAIT to get back to building freight cars - I must have close to 100 kits stashed away . . .

Marty


Re: What's on your work bench?

Donald Ford <ford.donald77@...>
 

Fred
I have 3 more on the shelf way back on the shelf

Don Ford
Modeling the PRR C&P in Utah where the nearest RR track is 100 miles away
Kanab UT




________________________________
From: Frederick Freitas <prrinvt@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tue, August 24, 2010 6:21:05 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: What's on your work bench?

 
Don,
 
Since you actually finished a Railroad Progress hopper kit, you get the
"patience award" for this month. Those are some annoying kits to build.
 
Fred Freitas

--- On Tue, 8/24/10, Donald Ford <ford.donald77@...> wrote:

From: Donald Ford <ford.donald77@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: What's on your work bench?
To: STMFC@...
Date: Tuesday, August 24, 2010, 12:33 AM

 

I like to finish a car but somethine get stuck on the details

detailing a hobbline quad hopper almost finished but can't find a picture of the

sid with the train air line or was it run done the centersill?  The twin hopper
rebuilds had the line outside the car body.

working on detailing number 27 of 33 Bowser H21a's only six more to go putting
ore loads under the coal load coal in ore out on the C&P into Cleveland

Gloud 120-ton wreck derrick for the PRRPRO project

F&C GR gon just started

Westerfield GL 2/3 built

Bowser/Cary I1sa just made the brake shoes old Kentron parts gets a PFM tender

and then the stash if I could do 1 kit a week I would be done in 3 1/2 years.  I

havn't even started on the West Rail AT&SF boxcar and NP flat.  Did finish a
Rail Progress H25 though.

Well back to the shop and hope I live to see most of this stuff done.

Don Ford
Kanab UT

________________________________
From: al_brown03 <abrown@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Mon, August 23, 2010 9:26:41 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: What's on your work bench?

 
I don't keep a lot of projects going at once, and currently have three:

Westerfield FEC ventilated box, finished except for cut levers;

Westerfield USRA DS box, being done as a modernized GN car, in the paint shop;

and an old RPI kit for an IC SS box rebuilt from an auto car. I love
funny-looking rebuilds!

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: What's on your work bench?

Clark Propst
 

Bill Welch wrote: "I have promised myself not to start anymore kits until I clear this backlog."


I'm kind of surprised at the number of partially completed models guys are fessing up to having.

I open a box and unusually set there till it's done, or maybe set it aside to wait till I'm done with the next model before weathering.

After last night's ops there are three bad order cars on my desk, one had a ladder fall off and the other two have low couplers.

No new freight car models to work on. I do plan on buying a couple at Naperville. I'll build them when I get home.

I need to scratch build several buildings, but I'll do that when the snow flies.

I do have a pile (2 sound, 3 not) of decoders to install. Maybe I'll do that today...maybe not...

Clark Propst


Re: What's on your work bench?

Benjamin Hom
 

Fred Freitas wrote:
"Since you actually finished a Railroad Progress hopper kit, you get the
"patience award" for this month. Those are some annoying kits to build."

"Kit" is overegging the pudding.  Try "scratchbuiding project in a box". 
However, I had fun building one years ago, and for some prototypes, they're
still the only game in town.  I've got a couple of NYC tall twin hoppers
that I'll tackle at some point, along with a PRR Class H25 which will be done
with Archer rivets.


Ben Hom 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: What's on your work bench?

Frederick Freitas <prrinvt@...>
 

Don,
 
Since you actually finished a Railroad Progress hopper kit, you get the "patience award" for this month. Those are some annoying kits to build.
 
Fred Freitas

--- On Tue, 8/24/10, Donald Ford <ford.donald77@...> wrote:


From: Donald Ford <ford.donald77@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: What's on your work bench?
To: STMFC@...
Date: Tuesday, August 24, 2010, 12:33 AM


 



I like to finish a car but somethine get stuck on the details

detailing a hobbline quad hopper almost finished but can't find a picture of the
sid with the train air line or was it run done the centersill?  The twin hopper
rebuilds had the line outside the car body.

working on detailing number 27 of 33 Bowser H21a's only six more to go putting
ore loads under the coal load coal in ore out on the C&P into Cleveland

Gloud 120-ton wreck derrick for the PRRPRO project

F&C GR gon just started

Westerfield GL 2/3 built

Bowser/Cary I1sa just made the brake shoes old Kentron parts gets a PFM tender

and then the stash if I could do 1 kit a week I would be done in 3 1/2 years.  I
havn't even started on the West Rail AT&SF boxcar and NP flat.  Did finish a
Rail Progress H25 though.

Well back to the shop and hope I live to see most of this stuff done.

Don Ford
Kanab UT

________________________________
From: al_brown03 <abrown@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Mon, August 23, 2010 9:26:41 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: What's on your work bench?

 
I don't keep a lot of projects going at once, and currently have three:

Westerfield FEC ventilated box, finished except for cut levers;

Westerfield USRA DS box, being done as a modernized GN car, in the paint shop;

and an old RPI kit for an IC SS box rebuilt from an auto car. I love
funny-looking rebuilds!

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: What's on your work bench?

Donald Ford <ford.donald77@...>
 

I like to finish a car but somethine get stuck on the details

detailing a hobbline quad hopper almost finished but can't find a picture of the
sid with the train air line or was it run done the centersill?  The twin hopper
rebuilds had the line outside the car body.

working on detailing number 27 of 33 Bowser H21a's only six more to go putting
ore loads under the coal load coal in ore out on the C&P into Cleveland

Gloud 120-ton wreck derrick for the PRRPRO project

F&C GR gon just started

Westerfield GL 2/3 built

Bowser/Cary I1sa just made the brake shoes old Kentron parts gets a PFM tender

and then the stash if I could do 1 kit a week I would be done in 3 1/2 years.  I
havn't even started on the West Rail AT&SF boxcar and NP flat.  Did finish a
Rail Progress H25 though.

Well back to the shop and hope I live to see most of this stuff done.

Don Ford
Kanab UT



________________________________
From: al_brown03 <abrown@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Mon, August 23, 2010 9:26:41 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: What's on your work bench?

 
I don't keep a lot of projects going at once, and currently have three:

Westerfield FEC ventilated box, finished except for cut levers;

Westerfield USRA DS box, being done as a modernized GN car, in the paint shop;

and an old RPI kit for an IC SS box rebuilt from an auto car. I love
funny-looking rebuilds!

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: What's on your work bench?

al_brown03
 

I don't keep a lot of projects going at once, and currently have three:

Westerfield FEC ventilated box, finished except for cut levers;

Westerfield USRA DS box, being done as a modernized GN car, in the paint shop;

and an old RPI kit for an IC SS box rebuilt from an auto car. I love funny-looking rebuilds!

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.


Re: Pictures of Tools

soolinehistory <destorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., Alan Gilchrist <cpr1957@...> wrote:

a clinic put on by Aubrey Olson of Caboose Industries, there he had
several injection molding patterns on display and had showed the
attendees the in's and out's of a injection molding die.
I know Aubrey, although I've never inspected his tooling, but here's a nice photo to illustrate some points:

http://www.pbase.com/cprfan/image/127758502/large

Open it in another window so you can follow along:

This is only half the mold, the "B" or movable half. You can just see the ejector plate peeking into the top of the photo. There is no ejector box, as this mold is built with a Master Unit Die Co. changeable insert; the holder "frame" stays in the press and only the inserts are changed. The purpose of this is to quickly cycle between products in production, although in the model RR industry they are often used to reduce the cost of any single mold. The mold is shown with the ejector pins in the forward position, as if it had just ejected a part.

This mold is set up for "parting line injection"; rather than a sprue running through one plate, the extruder and nozzle are oriented 90 degrees to the clamp. This is favored by some for small parts groups, but won't work for carbodies.

If you follow the runner to the top of the mold, you will see the semi-circular dished nozzle seat. The other mold half has the other half of the dish. This is worked into a hardened tool steel insert for wear resistance. The mold plate itself is softer
"holder block steel" likely 4130 or 4140. The square in the center is the hardened tool steel cavity insert; since the mounting screws are on the parting line (two are only partially inserted at the bottom of the insert) it looks like Aubrey has these set up to be interchangeable for different products, otherwise they'd come in from the back.

Just above the two mounting screws are two "side actions" or "slides"; it looks like they carry pins that make holes in the part oriented 90 degrees to the parting line. These look to be spring loaded, and are in the retracted position. The outer sides of those blocks are ground at an angle, although it's hard to see in the photo. The other side of the mold has a pair of protruding wedges that engage these angles as the mold closes, forcing the slides forward until the gaps between them and the cavity insert close up tight, moving the pins into position. After the part is molded, the springs force the slides back as the mold opens, leaving the part free to eject.

Nice tooling. Not a smidgen of aluminum in sight :-)

Dennis


Re: Pictures of Tools

Joseph Melhorn
 

Hi Bill,

I can fulfill your request. A friend of mine machines his own multi-part molds and has two injection molding presses. I have lunch with him every Friday, so after lunch, I will stop by his shop and take a couple of pics of some of his mold masters (he make most of them out of aluminum) and his presses and post them for you. He does mostly On3 and a little bit of On30. Lots of detail parts. Last week he was machining driver wheel center masters for a little Hawaiian Rwy 2-4-2. Once the mold is complete, he puts the mold in one of the presses and makes plastic parts. He then takes the injection molded plastic wheel centers and builds a "tree", bonding the sprues together. Perhaps as many as 30 or more wheel centers. Then he puts the "tree" into a slurry. When that sets, he burns out the plastic and spin casts the part "tree" in brass. This is sort of a condensed version of the process and I may have forgot a step or three.

Regards,
Joe Melhorn
Orangevale, CA

Thank you Tim, this is sort of what I have in mind. I am realizing I need to be more specific. What I would love to see out pure curiosity is a picture of the cavity in a tool or mold into which the styrene is injected. Ideally it would be a RR subject or something similarly recognizable and not for example a tail light or bottle cap.

Bill Welch, who may be sorry he posted the request.


Re: What's on your work bench?

David
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Charlie D modeling the Mopac http://mopac51.tripod" <trduck@...> wrote:

Wondering what's on your work bench and would you recommend it to another modeler?
List (and Charlie)

I am currently assembling a F & C USRA 40' DS Boxcar (Polybag special) that will be lettered for the Rock Island. This is my first flat kit after building several one-piece-body resin kits. I wanted to start with an inexpensive kit. The castings are good quality, the instructions are okay. The end ladders are a little tricky. Next will be the F & C KCS autocar and then the F & C Wabash 40' SS Autocar with Wood Door - both flat kit polybag specials. Then I will feel comfortable starting my Westerfield kits.

Of course, information and tips from this list have really helped me with resin freight car assembly, thank you to everyone.

David Snook
Wichita, Kansas


Re: Laser-cut resin?

pullmanboss <tcmadden@...>
 

Jeff Aley:
Group (esp. Tom Madden),

Can resin be laser-cut? I am thinking not only of the flash on a stock car model, but even of "converting" a single-sheathed box car to a stock car by cutting out the offending boards. Are resin castings dimensionally similar enough to allow such a thing?
Jeff, I'm reasonably familiar with laser cutting, but not at all familiar with the material properties required to yield clean, debris-free cuts. As for dimensional consistency, if you're envisioning a production setup where you grab a part from a bin, slap it onto alignment features on the bed of the cutter and press <Start> - no, resin parts aren't consistent enough. But if you have access to a laser cutter (and it sounds like you do) and want to fuss with modifying the setup for individual parts that may vary +/- 0.010" over half a dozen 6" car sides, you may be able to get some decent parts.

But that's dealing with the results of a problem, not solving the problem. The problem is flash, which always represents unwanted additional thickness for the entire part. And it's often non-uniform, varying from edge to edge, or corner to corner. With open molds you overfill each cavity with resin, then lay down a cap sheet or cover plate. You start at one edge and slowly lower the far edge of the plate so that excess resin and air bubbles are pushed out as the wedge closes. If it's a flexible cap sheet, you roll it on but the effect is the same. Then you clamp, rubber band or weight the mold. But these are flexible molds, so you can't apply too much clamping force or the mold will distort. A 6" square mold might tolerate 3 pounds if it isn't too thin and has decent edge margins. Since the cavities are full of liquid resin (a non-compressible fluid), the 3 pounds is spread over the entire 36 sq. in. That's 1-1/3 _OUNCES_ of pressure per square inch, not nearly enough to force out excess resin trapped under the cover plate and eliminate flash. With a closed (two-part) mold, the mold is clamped before the resin is poured. Flash is limited to the thickness of the mold release layer you applied to the completed first mold half before pouring the silicone rubber for the second mold half - typically 0.001" or thereabouts. You have to design the mold with proper gating and venting so the resin gets into every nook and cranny and all the air escapes, but that's part of the job.

Whether it's resin casting or injection molding, avoiding flash comes from keeping resin out of the parting line in the first place. With open molds you flood the parting line with resin before closing the mold, and flash is inevitable.

Tom Madden


What's on your work bench?

roblmclear <rob.mclear2@...>
 

Hi to all...

I have been having a lot of fun reading these posts thinking how can these guys get so jammed up with projects, that was until I went and had a good look at my workbench and realised how many projects I have going at the one time, no wonder I don't seem to get anything done. Unless mentioned all of this is in N scale, and that's probably the reason I don't notice them so much because they are smaller that I was used to in HO!! Some of this relates to the freight car list but a lot don't, oh well off to jail I go.....Mike I hope the food is good...

1. Two Atlas ARA boxcars to be repainted and converted into Seaboard Air Line express boxcars with the louvres in the side, I have not the foggiest idea at this stage how I am going to achieve this, but there you go, these are your fault Andy Sperandeo..
2. One Intermountain Auto car with double doors stripped and waiting to be repainted into MP express car, waiting for the Oddballs decals, you again Andy...
3. One Kato Mikado awaiting new tender trucks for repair
4. Four Arnold Rapido S2's awiting stripping and painting into ATSF original black switcher schemes
5. Two Minitrix FM diesels which are being converted into UP H20-44's by adding louvres, cab details etc, these are both half finished.
6. Three Fine N Scale truss rod boxcars where I am modifying the roofs and other bits to match ATSF Bx-15's
7. Four old Atlas/Rivarossi Buffet Library cars being modified into rider cars for the Fast Mail.
8. One Overland HO 200 ton crane, custom painting to UP standards for a client
9. One HO GP 10 cutom painting in the Midsouth Operation Lifesaver scheme for a client.
10. Tichy 120 ton crane and work train to be built and painted in ATSF.
11. Two HO Hallmark 3129 class Steam loco's to be painted in ATSF
12. Two Kato early phase 1 F3's to be painted in the Warbonnet scheme.
13. Scratchbuilt Agents House for Summit in bits on the bench awaiting windows.
14. Three Fine N scale resin truss rod reefer kits being Kitbashed into Early Swift steel channel underframe cars.
15. One HO DJH kit of an ATSF 3160 class Mikado, to be finished building and painted for a client.
16. One DL109 from Life Like which is being modified to more closely match the ATSF version of this loco.
17. One Kato PA being repainted into UP.
and finally
Four Tichy N scale GS Gondolas built and painted to match UP. Not to mention all of the cars wanting weathering on the desk and the half a dozen No8 switches in various stages of completion by the Fast tracks jig. Not to mention the numerous amount of baggage car sides I have on order, when they get here there will be about another six projects added to this.

Whew!! No wonder I don't ever seem to get anything finished, but hey mine is nothing compaired to photographs I've seen of Otto Kroutil's work bench. He should chime in here and come clean as well. Oh well it's all fun and keeps me out of trouble.

Regards
Rob McLear
Brisbane Australia.


Re: Pictures of Tools

Bill Welch
 

Thank you Dennis, this very interesting and I will look forward to the pictures. Among my modeling vices are military subjects. I just measured the hull of Italeri's 1/35 scale 80' PT Boat and it is about 27" long, 6+ inches wide and about 4" high. The tool for this must be really large based on what you have laid out.

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@..., "soolinehistory" <destorzek@...> wrote:



--- In STMFC@..., "Steve Haas" <Goatfisher2@> wrote:

"What I don't fully understand is the concept of "slides" in a mold."

Jeff,

Using an Athearn 40 foot box car kit as an example, the following might
help to understand the concept. Keep in mind that I'm a modeler, not an
injection molding engineer, so my terminology might not be correct, but you
should be able to get the general idea.

The molds for the kit could consist of several movable pieces:

1) A mold for the interior of the car
2) Molds for each side of the car
3) Molds for each end of the car
4) A mold for the roof of the car.

That's pretty close in concept. The part that forms the interior is typically called the "core" (as is any part that forms an interior void in the part.) In model RR practice, the core is typically on the movable half of the mold, which also carries the ejector system. Parts tend to shrink onto a core, so this is the side the part will stay on, to be pushed off by the ejector pins.

By convention, the side opposite the core is the "cavity", even though ours aren't very deep. This is the side that has the sprue where the plastic enters the mold, or a heated sprue bushing (AKA "hot tip") that serves the same purpose. This is on the stationary side of the mold so the machine nozzle can stay against it. Practice varies, but cars with attached roofs usually have the roof detail in the cavity; cars with attached floors have the floor detail. There have been a few models over the years that "shoot through the core", but it makes the mold more complicated, therefore more expensive.

The detail on the sides and ends is oriented 90 degrees to the "parting line", the plane where the mold splits, so the "side cavity inserts" are mounted on "slides", or "side actions", movable pieces that back away from the part as the mold opens. These usually surround the core, so the part is stationary relative to the slides as they open, then once fully open the ejector pins push the part off the core. These four side inserts need to mate with the cavity insert and each other without gaps; +&#92;-.0002" is acceptable tolerance for this fit, and a .0006" gap is too much, and will allow flash to form. Likewise the side inserts need to "shut off" against the core so there is no flash around the open side of the body.

Polystyrene isn't a liquid, it's "plastic". Hot styrene would be perfectly happy to sit there as a blob if left to its own devices, so it takes tremendous pressure to force it to conform to the cavity. That's why these parts are moldings; casting implies a non-pressurized gravity fed part. General rule of thumb is it takes between 2 to 7 tons to hold the mold closed against the pressure needed to fill each square inch of cavity area, the finer the detail, the higher the pressure required. The typical 40' HO boxcar has about seven square inches of area directly opposed to the parting line, and will require somewhere around 50 tons to hold the mold closed. In addition, each side has an additional seven square inches trying to push it away from the core, so the slides, and the wedges that hold them in place, need to be massive. All this extra area doesn't directly try to open the mold, most of it just tries to deform it, with only a portion vectored directly across the parting line, but a fifty ton press is the bare minimum required to mold most HO scale carbodies, and 75T is better.

Of course, all this tonnage (as much as a triple hopper load of coal!) is trying to crush the poor little mold, so it has to be pretty substantial. A typical mold for a 40' HO boxcar might have outside dimensions of 12" x 20", to make a part 1.3" x 5". Typical plate thickness is 2 - 3 inches for each side, plus the height of the part, plus another 3" or so for the ejector box, and weighs somewhere around 700 - 800 pounds.

If I get a chance tomorrow, I'll try to take some pictures.

Dennis


Re: Pictures of Tools

cprfan
 

lnbill wrote:
Dennis, Brian or anyone:

I have never seen any photographs of the molds or tools used to produce rolling stock, trucks, etc. Would it be possible to post photographs of such items? If something can be included to give a sense of size, all the better.
Oops, forgot to mention, at the bottom of each image is a link called "original", click this link to switch to a much larger view size (2376x1584)...

http://www.pbase.com/cprfan/inject

Alan

--
____________________________________________________________
/ &#92;
| What: Modeling Canadian Pacific in B.C. in the late 50's |
| EMail: cpr1957 at rogers dot com |
| WEB: http://www.pbase.com/cprfan |
&#92;____________________________________________________________/


Re: Pictures of Tools

cprfan
 

lnbill wrote:
Dennis, Brian or anyone:

I have never seen any photographs of the molds or tools used to produce rolling stock, trucks, etc. Would it be possible to post photographs of such items? If something can be included to give a sense of size, all the better.
Bill, while attending the NMRA national convention in 2009, i attended a clinic put on by Aubrey Olson of Caboose Industries, there he had several injection molding patterns on display and had showed the attendees the in's and out's of a injection molding die.

I also took an number of photo's on the parts and just posted them to my web gallery when i seen this message.

http://www.pbase.com/cprfan/inject

Alan

--
____________________________________________________________
/ &#92;
| What: Modeling Canadian Pacific in B.C. in the late 50's |
| EMail: cpr1957 at rogers dot com |
| WEB: http://www.pbase.com/cprfan |
&#92;____________________________________________________________/


Re: What's on your work bench?

kenneth broomfield
 

Several Bowser F30 flat cars, some WW2 tanks, trying to make a troop train. An
F&C FM flat car. As well as off list a Bowser PRR H-9 that I am still building.
Maybe if I stopped reading all the faboulous information on this list I could
actually get some of this done.
 
Kenny Broomfield


Re: What's on your work bench?

Gene <bierglaeser@...>
 

While living in California in the 1970s I had the privilege of operating regularly on fellow's small layout. All his cars and locomotives were painted differently on each side.

The basic layout was out from a large city and large yard through a few rural towns into a hidden reversing loop. When trains emerged the other side was visible and appeared to be an entirely different train.

Most of his rolling stock was Roundhouse which could withstand the sometimes clumsy efforts of visiting crew members.

Gene Green

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