Date   

New MTH HO scale freight cars

Eric Hansmann
 

On a discussion list of NKPH&TS members there has been some discussion of
MTH HO scale freight car models pictured in a new catalog. As recent STMFC
discussion was centered on possible plastic injection molded models, I
thought this may be timely. Here are the freight car pages:
http://www.mthtrains.com/sites/default/files/catalog_files/index_2010ho2.htm

Details and opinions here are based only upon the images in the MTH catalog
at the above link.

Brian Carlson submitted these thoughts on the mill gondola:

It does appear MTH is tooling the Greenville 70 ton Mill Gon. This is a
shame since P2K already did the car in both kit form and RTR. The RTR cars
were available for about $12 when they came out years ago too. MTH would
have been better served doing the Bethlehem 70 ton mill gon, oh well. The
NKP cars being offered in numbers 66040, 66044, 66047. These are accurate
for the July 1944 delivery to the NKP, 66000-66049. The prototype cars had
wood floors, wine end door locks, 70 ton double truss trucks, and Universal
pump hand brake. These cars were delivered in the swing tail R lettering
scheme. Also in the late 40's 45 cars were converted to container service.
Note: the NKP also received 67000-67399 in March 1949, these cars had subtle
differences from the 66000 series cars.

The MTH car has the straight leg paint scheme so it models a later repaint.
The MTH model also doesn't show some of the end lettering or smaller
lettering on the sides. These may be pre-production models so the actual
models may have full lettering. The trucks are not correct for NKP either.
Also the NKP cars had grabs on the sides whereas the MTH model looks to have
modeled ladders which is only correct for the NYC and P&LE. The ends should
drop also. it's not clear from the artwork if these do. The details look
cast on, the P2K car has separate details. The B end and interior are not
visible in the photos so it is unclear if MTH model contains the correct
details for NKP.

In summary they look mostly correct for NKP but the P2k car may have
saturated the market years ago. This email is my opinion based on a review
of the image in the MTH catalog and the actual model may be different. YMMV.

Thanks to Brian for the use of his comments. I agree that a Bethlehem mill
gon would have been a great choice. Or possibly a Lot 326-G NYC mill gon, as
over 10,000 similar gons were rostered on NYC lines. See Kline & Culotta's
"Postwar Freight Car Fleet", p 187.

As for the other MTH HO scale freight cars in their latest catalog, the
70-ton quad hopper offering may be a upgrade over the old Athearn molds. The
B&O had thousands of these hoppers in service for decades. I believe the
sill steps may have been different on B&O cars, but overall this model could
be a real plus.

The MTH PS-1 box car offering will be the third or fourth PS-1 iteration of
this car in HO scale. Kadee and Accurail models can be found at swap meets
and on dealer shelves. Granted there are now fewer box car prototypes that
have not been produced as plastic HO scale models, but there are still a
couple of different prototypes that could have been considered.

MTH also lists a 55-ton USRA twin hopper, which lists for $29.95. An HO
scale USRA 55-ton hopper is currently available as a similar grade model
from Accurail and Walthers, plus the Tichy kit and the RTRs offered by
Intermountain. Why would MTH choose that hopper? Why not a different one?
Like maybe the USRA 70-ton triple hopper? That would have been soooo sweet
for NYC, C&O and many other fans/modelers.

Lastly, the MTH catalog shows a R40-2 wood side reefer. I'm not as informed
on reefer detail or history as I am on hoppers and gons. A quick compare
with detail in the Thompson/Church/Jones PFE book looks solid, but the
catalog images get fuzzy as the view is magnified. I am unsure if this is an
upgrade on an older model or repeats something currently available.

These are my personal thoughts based on reviewing MTH catalog pages. The
actual models may be different

Model railroading is not a huge market. Sales can be maximized by wisely
choosing prototypes for model production. By introducing a model that has
been recently produced or remains available, a company is already losing
part of the market share.

Eric




Eric Hansmann
Chagrin Falls, Ohio
Modeling the railroads of Newburgh, Ohio, circa 1926.
http://designbuildop.hansmanns.org/





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Re: Champ decals--no longer available?

sunbeam13n14
 

I have been in contact with Champ this week and Connie assured me they still have many decal sets in inventory. I placed my order at it was confirmed next day. They reply promptly to email inquiries. I would suggest that you not tarry, however.
Frank

--- On Fri, 6/11/10, pullmanboss <tcmadden@q.com> wrote:

From: pullmanboss <tcmadden@q.com>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Champ decals--no longer available?
To: STMFC@...
Date: Friday, June 11, 2010, 10:16 PM







 









Tom, I ordered 10 sets of LNE covered hopper decals from Champ on-line very late on 6/1 and they arrived today, 6/11. (Waited until they arrived to post this.)



Tom Madden



--- In STMFC@..., Thomas Baker <bakert@...> wrote:

Yesterday I explored the CHAMP website, read the notice of the inventory, equipment, etc being up for sale. Nevertheless, the site listed various decals still available. Do the people at CHAMP still respond to orders?
Tom
























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Champ decals--no longer available?

pullmanboss <tcmadden@...>
 

Tom, I ordered 10 sets of LNE covered hopper decals from Champ on-line very late on 6/1 and they arrived today, 6/11. (Waited until they arrived to post this.)

Tom Madden

--- In STMFC@..., Thomas Baker <bakert@...> wrote:


Yesterday I explored the CHAMP website, read the notice of the inventory, equipment, etc being up for sale. Nevertheless, the site listed various decals still available. Do the people at CHAMP still respond to orders?

Tom


Re: PATCHING, and fine scale chain

William Keene <wakeene@...>
 

Hi Tim & Group,

I think that the bridge dates from the early 20th Century... something like 1902, I think. In this case you have the correct idea. But I would guess that it is more likely that it was shipped by rail instead of going around the tip of South America.

But there is a third route... by ship to Colon, Panama, Colombia (remember that Panama was a state of Colombia at the time), then transshipped over the Panama Rail Road (PRR... just love those initials), and then transshipped again up the west coast with the final delivery being by rail. Most likely still faster than going the extra miles around South America.

Cheers,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA


On Jun 11, 2010, at 2:16 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:


Eric is correct -- this is the Central Valley prototype in Piru, CA
http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=pr2gdb530vcq&scene=11424394&lvl=2&sty=o

The CV web site says the bridge was built by the New York Bridge Co. It
was no doubt shipped in pieces some distance by rail, but might have gone
by ship to either New Orleans or even around the Horn before being loaded
onto freight cars.

Tim O'Connor

I don't believe the Central Valley truss bridge is a pin-connected truss bridge. A model image is on their mainpage: http://www.cvmw.com/
I'm more familiar with a pin-connected truss looking more like this one. Note the steel members along the bottom outide of hte truss.
http://www.texnrails.com/catalog/details.asp?sid=JF25697055421821&mfg=TMS&item=2200301&cat=&series=
Of course, material for either type of bridge most likely was transported in steam era freight cars to the building location.
Eric


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: PATCHING, and fine scale chain

Tim O'Connor
 

Eric is correct -- this is the Central Valley prototype in Piru, CA
http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=pr2gdb530vcq&scene=11424394&lvl=2&sty=o

The CV web site says the bridge was built by the New York Bridge Co. It
was no doubt shipped in pieces some distance by rail, but might have gone
by ship to either New Orleans or even around the Horn before being loaded
onto freight cars.

Tim O'Connor

I don't believe the Central Valley truss bridge is a pin-connected truss bridge. A model image is on their mainpage: http://www.cvmw.com/
I'm more familiar with a pin-connected truss looking more like this one. Note the steel members along the bottom outide of hte truss.
http://www.texnrails.com/catalog/details.asp?sid=JF25697055421821&mfg=TMS&item=2200301&cat=&series=
Of course, material for either type of bridge most likely was transported in steam era freight cars to the building location.
Eric


PRR Lease of H2A, was digest Number 6294

Brian Carlson
 

Rich the lease of the 2000 H2a's started in April 1957 not 58.



Also, when replying to a digest please change the subject as appropriate.



Brian J. Carlson, P.E.

Cheektowaga NY

prrk41361@...



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
SUVCWORR@...
Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 11:53 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Digest Number 6294





The PRR did not lease these cars until 1958. so unless they were in N&W
paint you won't see them prior to that time.

Rich Orr


Re: PATCHING, and fine scale chain

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Eric Hansmann wrote:
I don't believe the Central Valley truss bridge is a pin-connected truss bridge.
You're certainly right, Eric, that the CV bridge shown is not a classic pin-connected bridge, with BOTH diagonal and bottom members being pin-connected. But it DOES have the diagonals presented as pin- connected. Mechanically, the CV bridge would be an odd adaptation. The whole point of pin-connected bridges is that with the joints among the bridge members able to rotate (slightly) under load, the truss was a determinant structure with the mathematical methods of the early 20th century. When those joints are rigid, there was not then a closed-form equation for stresses in all the members. So the CV bridge, with the pin-connected diagonals meeting rigidly connected top and bottom chords, doesn't serve the original purpose of pin connections. But it may make a bridge with slightly lighter members and thus slightly cheaper.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: PATCHING, and fine scale chain

cj riley <cjriley42@...>
 

--- On Fri, 6/11/10, Eric <eric@...> wrote:







 









<I don't believe the Central Valley truss bridge is a pin-connected truss bridge. >








You are right, Eric. Although a pin connected truss may have some solidly riveted joints on the bottom member, sort of a combination of your two examples. I have kit bashed a CV kit to a pin connected deck truss.

CJ Riley


Re: BLI NYC all-steel box cars

Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
 

You could also use Archer rivets. I used them for a CN steel-frame diagonal-panel boxcar roof. I used a Branchline roof on a Kaslo 40' CN 503500-series resin kit. The Archer rivets were applied to the top sides and top ends of the roof. I've sent a photo of this application to the "Archer Rivets" album, but am waiting for it to appear.

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


As Richard says they are ZU-eave (aka overhanging) roofs, not Z-eave
(aka flush) roofs as found on the SP rebuilds.

I think Intermountain sells the R-40-25 refrigerator roof separately,
and that can be bashed into a box car roof.

You can copy-cast Martin's parts for your own use. I've done it with
some small parts.

Tim O'Connor


Richard,

I am not sure exactly what roof you are talking about, but it sounds the same one as what SP put on there B-50-15's in a 1951 refurbishment project. Look in Tony's Boxcar book there is a great photo (looking down) of a just finished car. If that is the roof in question, Sunshine has the master--good luck getting one out of Martin.

Paul Lyons


Re: PATCHING, and fine scale chain

Eric Hansmann
 

I don't believe the Central Valley truss bridge is a pin-connected truss bridge. A model image is on their mainpage:
http://www.cvmw.com/

I'm more familiar with a pin-connected truss looking more like this one. Note the steel members along the bottom outide of hte truss.
http://www.texnrails.com/catalog/details.asp?sid=JF25697055421821&mfg=TMS&item=2200301&cat=&series=

Of course, material for either type of bridge most likely was transported in steam era freight cars to the building location.

Eric


Eric Hansmann
Chagrin Falls, Ohio
Modeling the railroads of Newburgh, Ohio, circa 1926.
http://designbuildop.hansmanns.org/

--- In STMFC@..., va661midlo@... wrote:

Jared,

Have you examined the Central Valley bridge kit for a 150 foot Pratt Truss pin-connected single track bridge? Central Valley makes both an HO and N scale kit for this bridge. Here is a link to its website: http://www.cvmw.com/

The HO kit has been around for a while. The N scale kit is new.

Ken Montero


Re: PATCHING, and fine scale chain

jerryglow2
 

The prototype for the CV bridge was on a branchline hense for lighter loads. In fact, to use it for mainline or heavier duty, you need to "beef" it up some.

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@..., "Richard White" <rhwhite@...> wrote:

Steam era freight car discussion group. The time period covered will be from 1900-1960.On Fri, Jun 11 2010 at 4.52 am, Ken Montero wrote:

"Jared,

Have you examined the Central Valley bridge kit for a 150 foot Pratt Truss pin-connected single track bridge? Central Valley makes both an HO and N scale kit for this bridge. Here is a link to its website: http://www.cvmw.com/

The HO kit has been around for a while. The N scale kit is new."

I built the Central Valley 150 foot Pratt Truss bridge a few years ago. It makes up into a very nice model and isn't difficult although you do need to do a bit more than shake the box. I recommend it.

It looks great with a ten-wheeler and a brace of cars on it.

Richard White




Re: PATCHING, and fine scale chain

Richard White
 

Steam era freight car discussion group. The time period covered will be from 1900-1960.On Fri, Jun 11 2010 at 4.52 am, Ken Montero wrote:

"Jared,

Have you examined the Central Valley bridge kit for a 150 foot Pratt Truss pin-connected single track bridge? Central Valley makes both an HO and N scale kit for this bridge. Here is a link to its website: http://www.cvmw.com/

The HO kit has been around for a while. The N scale kit is new."

I built the Central Valley 150 foot Pratt Truss bridge a few years ago. It makes up into a very nice model and isn't difficult although you do need to do a bit more than shake the box. I recommend it.

It looks great with a ten-wheeler and a brace of cars on it.

Richard White


Re: Digest Number 6294

SUVCWORR@...
 

The PRR did not lease these cars until 1958. so unless they were in N&W paint you won't see them prior to that time.

Rich Orr

--- On Thu, 6/10/10, Don Valentine <riverman_vt@...> wrote:





From: Don Valentine <riverman_vt@...>

Subject: Re: [STMFC] Digest Number 6294

To: "No Reply" <notify-dg-STMFC@...>

Cc: STMFC@...

Date: Thursday, June 10, 2010, 12:38 PM













I note that BLI will also be offering another run of N&W H-2a hoppers this

year. Try as I might,

I cannot recall ever seeing a photo of one of the H-2a's in Northern New England

in the 1945-1950 era. Were these cars strictly limited to the movement of tide

coal or did some of them roam freely?



Thanks for any assistance, Don Valentine



________________________________

From: "STMFC@..." <STMFC@...>

To: STMFC@...

Sent: Tue, June 8, 2010 9:15:21 AM

Subject: [STMFC] Digest Number 6294



Steam era freight car discussion group. The time period covered will be from

1900-1960.

Messages In This Digest (25 Messages)

1a.

Re: Champ decals--no longer available? From: Thomas Baker

1b.

Re: Champ decals--no longer available? From: Steve Hoxie

2a.

Re: decal finishing help From: Craig Zeni

3a.

Unusual Perishables From: wohrnell@...

4a.

Re: DL&W wood auto boxcars From: brianleppert@...

5a.

Re: Strange boxcar ID From: rwitt_2000

5b.

Re: Strange boxcar ID From: Richard Hendrickson

5c.

Re: Strange boxcar ID From: Richard Hendrickson

6a.

BLI NYC all-steel box cars From: Gene

6b.

Re: BLI NYC all-steel box cars From: Brian J Carlson

6c.

Re: BLI NYC all-steel box cars From: Tim O'Connor

6d.

Re: BLI NYC all-steel box cars From: pullmanboss

6e.

Re: BLI NYC all-steel box cars From: Tim O'Connor

6f.

Re: BLI NYC all-steel box cars From: barryb2again

6g.

Re: BLI NYC all-steel box cars From: gn3397

7a.

so that's how they did it! From: Tim O'Connor

7b.

Re: so that's how they did it! From: Barrybennetttoo@...

7c.

Re: so that's how they did it! From: Gatwood, Elden J SAD

7d.

Re: so that's how they did it! From: water.kresse@...

7e.

Re: so that's how they did it! From: water.kresse@...

7f.

Re: so that's how they did it! From: water.kresse@...

8a.

Liquid chloride Tankcar help From: schmuck804_99

8b.

Re: Liquid chloride Tankcar help From: Garth G. Groff

8c.

Re: Liquid chloride Tankcar help From: Gatwood, Elden J SAD

8d.

Re: Liquid chloride Tankcar help From: al_brown03 View All Topics | Create New

Topic Messages

1a.

Re: Champ decals--no longer available?

Posted by: "Thomas Baker" bakert@... millcitieslimited

Mon Jun 7, 2010 6:59 am (PDT)



Yesterday I explored the CHAMP website, read the notice of the inventory,

equipment, etc being up for sale. Nevertheless, the site listed various decals

still available. Do the people at CHAMP still respond to orders?



Tom







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Messages in this topic (2)

1b.

Re: Champ decals--no longer available?

Posted by: "Steve Hoxie" stevehprr@... pennsylvania1954

Mon Jun 7, 2010 7:16 am (PDT)



Tom--You can definitely still order from Champ, and they ship promptly. They

prefer online ordering; note the comments on the site about when they are

working. They try to keep the website current with actual inventory so if you

don't see it, it's gone.



Steve Hoxie

Pensacola FL



--- In STMFC@yahoogroups. com, Thomas Baker <bakert@...> wrote:

Yesterday I explored the CHAMP website, read the notice of the inventory,
equipment, etc being up for sale. Nevertheless, the site listed various decals

still available. Do the people at CHAMP still respond to orders?

Tom


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Messages in this topic (2)

2a.

Re: decal finishing help

Posted by: "Craig Zeni" clzeni@... sal3060

Mon Jun 7, 2010 7:11 am (PDT)



The real answer to a good base finish is to use glossy paint in the
first place. I use Scalecoat and Scalecoat II (for plastic)
sprayed right from the bottle. It covers well and dries glossy.
Dry time is a little long but the finish is worth it.
Steve Kay
--- In STMFC@yahoogroups. com, "Brian J Carlson" <prrk41361@. ..> wrote:
I've not been happy with my last few decaling projects with Testor's
Glosscote. Lots of work with setting solutions and creative
weathering have
helped make them better but I am looking for other decal finishing
options.
I've used Glosscote for years originally from spray cans so any
thoughts are
appreciated. I've heard about Future from others anything special
I should
know. Spray right from bottle or dilute?
Brian J. Carlson, P.E.
Cheektowaga NY
prrk41361@.. .


I've also had good luck getting a decal-ready finish by mixing

Floquil 50/50 with their Glaze. Sprays fine through a Paasche double

action airbrush. Yes, also a bit slow to dry but like Steve says,

the finish is worth it. But if I can get the color I need in it, I'm

a Scalecoat painter.



Craig Zeni



Some mornings it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.



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Messages in this topic (24)

3a.

Unusual Perishables

Posted by: "wohrnell@..." wohrnell@... lenny64118

Mon Jun 7, 2010 7:56 am (PDT)



Add roots to the list of Unusual Perishables.



W.L. Ohrnell



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Messages in this topic (4)

4a.

Re: DL&W wood auto boxcars

Posted by: "brianleppert@..." brianleppert@... brianleppert@...

Mon Jun 7, 2010 8:08 am (PDT)



I have an original Magor drawing of the underframe arrangement for the DL&W

12800-12999 cars. It is almost an exact copy of the USRA 40-ton box car

underframe.



Brian Leppert

Carson City, NV



--- In STMFC@yahoogroups. com, "Ken" <kobrien1600@ ...> wrote:

I'm looking for info and pictures about the wood door and a half auto boxcars
of the DL&W in series 12000 to 12999...

Ken O'Brien


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Messages in this topic (4)

5a.

Re: Strange boxcar ID

Posted by: "rwitt_2000" rwitt_2000@... rwitt_2000

Mon Jun 7, 2010 3:26 pm (PDT)



Ford and Don,



To my eyes both of the nominal 6-ft wide doors are still on the car.

With that assumption, the car could be either a B&O class M-27B with the

Tatum roof, which were rebuilt from the double door version of the M-27,

the class M-27A or a M-27F that were re-built from M-27B's starting in

1939 with the second door permanently fixed closed. In 1947, the stated

date of the photo, the B&O had 316 class M-27B's and 177 M-27F's on

their roster. Take your pick the boxcar could be hauling automobiles or

in general merchandise service.



There are photos, one by Paul Dunn from the Rich Burg Collection of a

M-27B, #295188 with re-weigh data of "COL 11-59" and one from the Jay

Williams Collection of a M-27F #382013 with re-weigh data of "CE 10-39"

of a very recent conversion at the Chillicothe, Ohio Car Shops with the

second door permanently fixed closed. There were still 112 class M-27B

operating in 1959, but by that time the Evans auto loaders were removed

making them suitable for general service.



Regards,



Bob Witt



P.S. What is strange to some is to others just the wonderful world of

John Tatum's inventions ;-).



Don Burn wrote:

It is a Baltimore and Ohio M27F, there was an article in the March
2001 RMC

on how to model these and they were covered in Ted Cullota's Essential
Freight Car series. See
http://steamfreight cars.com/ modeling/ models/harr/ bo382281main. html for
a

nice model of one.
Don Burn
-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups. com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf
Of

ford35lh
Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 2:28 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups. com
Subject: [STMFC] Strange boxcar ID
Can anyone ID the boxcar in this ebay image ???
It has a strange roof configuration I have never seen.
Drawings in print ???
Thanks
ford
ebay# 330439620059


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Messages in this topic (10)

5b.

Re: Strange boxcar ID

Posted by: "Richard Hendrickson" rhendrickson@... n1605g

Mon Jun 7, 2010 4:00 pm (PDT)



On Jun 7, 2010, at 3:26 PM, rwitt_2000 wrote:



Ford and Don,
To my eyes both of the nominal 6-ft wide doors are still on the car.
With that assumption, the car could be either a B&O class M-27B
with the
Tatum roof, which were rebuilt from the double door version of the
M-27,
the class M-27A or a M-27F that were re-built from M-27B's starting in
1939 with the second door permanently fixed closed. In 1947, the
stated
date of the photo, the B&O had 316 class M-27B's and 177 M-27F's on
their roster. Take your pick the boxcar could be hauling
automobiles or
in general merchandise service.
There are photos, one by Paul Dunn from the Rich Burg Collection of a
M-27B, #295188 with re-weigh data of "COL 11-59" and one from the Jay
Williams Collection of a M-27F #382013 with re-weigh data of "CE
10-39"
of a very recent conversion at the Chillicothe, Ohio Car Shops with
the
second door permanently fixed closed. There were still 112 class
M-27B
operating in 1959, but by that time the Evans auto loaders were
removed
making them suitable for general service.


Other photos which I have and can provide to you in the form of

scans, are a Red Davis shot of B&O 295456 in Nebraska with a recent

12-56 reweigh date and a 1940 Kansas City photo from the Joe Collias

collection of a car with Chicago & Alton reporting marks and auto

loader markings on the doors, numbered 295003. My 1940 ORER shows 10

C&A cars numbered 295001-295010, but apparently their tenure on the

C&A was short, as they are not listed in the 10/41 ORER. The latter

photo is an indifferent image from a very grainy 35 mm neg, but

knowing Joe's darkroom work I'm sure the print I have is the best he

could get. And at least it documents that those ten cars did exist,

however briefly.



Richard Hendrickson







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Messages in this topic (10)

5c.

Re: Strange boxcar ID

Posted by: "Richard Hendrickson" rhendrickson@... n1605g

Mon Jun 7, 2010 4:10 pm (PDT)



On Jun 7, 2010, at 3:26 PM, rwitt_2000 wrote:



There are photos, one by Paul Dunn from the Rich Burg Collection of a
M-27B, #295188 with re-weigh data of "COL 11-59" and one from the Jay
Williams Collection of a M-27F #382013 with re-weigh data of "CE
10-39"
of a very recent conversion at the Chillicothe, Ohio Car Shops with
the
second door permanently fixed closed.


Bob, it turns out that, after I sent my previous message, I discoverd

another photo of a M-27F. This one is from the Bob Lorenz collection

and shows B&O 295189 with a reweigh symbol and date of MC 10-36 and

auto loaders markings on the main door. It's interesting that this

car still had arch bar trucks at the time it was photographed.



Richard Hendrickson







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Messages in this topic (10)

6a.

BLI NYC all-steel box cars

Posted by: "Gene" bierglaeser@... bierglaeser

Mon Jun 7, 2010 8:30 pm (PDT)



Broadway Limited has announced NYC steel boxcars. Would anyone care to comment

on their accuracy judging from the available advertising material?



It appears these cars are intended to represent the NYC's 102500-106999,

107000-111999 and 121000-121999 number series as well as possibly other series.

Will these be correct or close for these series? What about other series?



The paint schemes are identified as pre- and post-1955. Are the "pre-1955"

correct for 1950 and earlier?



Here is a link:

http://www.broadway -limited. com/nycsteelboxc ars.aspx



Gene Green



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Messages in this topic (7)

6b.

Re: BLI NYC all-steel box cars

Posted by: "Brian J Carlson" prrk41361@... prrk41361

Mon Jun 7, 2010 9:12 pm (PDT)



Gene these were discussed extensively on the list less than one month ago.

search the archives for "NYC Spec 486 boxcars." (Also look for spec 468

since I see many of the subject lines of the emails I saved had the 8 and 6

transposed)



Brian J. Carlson, P.E.



Cheektowaga NY



prrk41361@yahoo. com







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Messages in this topic (7)

6c.

Re: BLI NYC all-steel box cars

Posted by: "Tim O'Connor" timboconnor@... cf5250

Mon Jun 7, 2010 9:56 pm (PDT)



As Brian said you can find the discussion from last month... I'll just

say that my experience with BLI models is that they are good quality.

I have a GACX express reefer and some H2a hoppers. The reefer is very

well done. The question I have: are there decals/dry transfers out there

to letter these cars correctly for NYC?



Tim O'Connor



Broadway Limited has announced NYC steel boxcars. Would anyone care to comment
on their accuracy judging from the available advertising material?

It appears these cars are intended to represent the NYC's 102500-106999,
107000-111999 and 121000-121999 number series as well as possibly other series.

Will these be correct or close for these series? What about other series?

The paint schemes are identified as pre- and post-1955. Are the "pre-1955"
correct for 1950 and earlier?

Here is a link:
http://www.broadway -limited. com/nycsteelboxc ars.aspx
Gene Green


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Messages in this topic (7)

6d.

Re: BLI NYC all-steel box cars

Posted by: "pullmanboss" tcmadden@q.com pullmanboss

Mon Jun 7, 2010 10:08 pm (PDT)



Tim O'Connor asked:

The question I have: are there decals/dry transfers out there
to letter these cars correctly for NYC?


See: http://www.speedwit ch.com/Decals/ d107.htm



Tom Madden



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Messages in this topic (7)

6e.

Re: BLI NYC all-steel box cars

Posted by: "Tim O'Connor" timboconnor@... cf5250

Tue Jun 8, 2010 12:27 am (PDT)



Thanks Tom, but I should have been more specific -- I meant

decals for the mid to late 1950's. After a search through my

catalogs and decals I've found nothing appropriate to model

this car or cars like it:



http://www.broadway -limited. com/images/ NYC%20105065% 20%28resized%

20for%20web% 29.jpg



CDS and Mark Vaughan did sets for this style of repaint but

only for postwar AAR (CDS) and prewar AAR (MV) -- so the data

are in the correct style but are not for the much smaller

spec 486 cars. And of course Ted is not interested in the

later 50's (although he did a nice set for SP repaints).



So it's factory paint for me! (Not my preference.)



Tim O'Connor



At 6/8/2010 01:08 AM Tuesday, you wrote:

Tim O'Connor asked:
The question I have: are there decals/dry transfers out there
to letter these cars correctly for NYC?
See: http://www.speedwit ch.com/Decals/ d107.htm
Tom Madden


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Messages in this topic (7)

6f.

Re: BLI NYC all-steel box cars

Posted by: "barryb2again" Barrybennetttoo@... barryb2again

Tue Jun 8, 2010 12:38 am (PDT)



Having reviewed tha earlier posts and then read the BLI blurb I note that BLI

have said that they will not be producing models with repair patches.



Taking Richard Hendrickson' s manuscript comments that the cars suffered the

same body rot problems as the X29 cars and that all of them received patch panel

repairs then the BLI cars are not much use as produced for anyone that models

the 1950's.



So it looks like buy undecs, add patch panels and then paint and decal. Or maybe

I will just build my store of Westerfield kits instead.



Barry Bennett



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Messages in this topic (7)

6g.

Re: BLI NYC all-steel box cars

Posted by: "gn3397" heninger@... gn3397

Tue Jun 8, 2010 5:45 am (PDT)



Tim (and Group),

An alternative would be to supply Mr. Glow with a nice broadside photo or

twelve, and ask him if he would be interested in generating the artwork. A set

that includes the later 50s style of NYC lettering would be useful to many

modelers, especially as a larger portion of the hobby moves to a post STMFC era

for their modeling.



Sincerely,

Bob Heninger

Iowa City, IA



--- In STMFC@yahoogroups. com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@ ...> wrote:

Thanks Tom, but I should have been more specific -- I meant
decals for the mid to late 1950's. After a search through my
catalogs and decals I've found nothing appropriate to model
this car or cars like it:
http://www.broadway -limited. com/images/ NYC%20105065% 20%28resized%
20for%20web% 29.jpg

CDS and Mark Vaughan did sets for this style of repaint but
only for postwar AAR (CDS) and prewar AAR (MV) -- so the data
are in the correct style but are not for the much smaller
spec 486 cars. And of course Ted is not interested in the
later 50's (although he did a nice set for SP repaints).
So it's factory paint for me! (Not my preference.)
Tim O'Connor


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Messages in this topic (7)

7a.

so that's how they did it!

Posted by: "Tim O'Connor" timboconnor@... cf5250

Tue Jun 8, 2010 12:00 am (PDT)



A loaded Nickel Plate 50' auto box car -- notice the cars do

not have their wheels mounted!

http://cgi.ebay. com/ws/eBayISAPI .dll?ViewItem& item=25064458955 1



Tim O'Connor



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Messages in this topic (6)

7b.

Re: so that's how they did it!

Posted by: "Barrybennetttoo@..." Barrybennetttoo@... barryb2again

Tue Jun 8, 2010 12:09 am (PDT)



They don't appear to me to have anything much mounted, maybe just car

bodies being shipped to an assembly plant.



Barry Bennett



In a message dated 08/06/2010 07:01:20 GMT Standard Time,

timboconnor@ comcast.net writes:



A loaded Nickel Plate 50' auto box car -- notice the cars do

not have their wheels mounted!

_http://cgi.ebay. com/ws/eBayISAPI .dll?ViewItem& item=25064458955 1_

(http://cgi.ebay. com/ws/eBayISAPI .dll?ViewItem& item=25064458955 1)



Tim O'Connor







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Messages in this topic (6)

7c.

Re: so that's how they did it!

Posted by: "Gatwood, Elden J SAD" elden.j.gatwood@... prr8112

Tue Jun 8, 2010 4:44 am (PDT)



Also the only way they could get them in there in 2 layers. No axles,

either?



Elden Gatwood



-----Original Message-----

From: STMFC@yahoogroups. com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Tim

O'Connor

Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 2:25 AM

To: STMFC@yahoogroups. com

Subject: [STMFC] so that's how they did it!



A loaded Nickel Plate 50' auto box car -- notice the cars do not have their

wheels mounted!

http://cgi.ebay. com/ws/eBayISAPI .dll?ViewItem& item=25064458955 1



Tim O'Connor



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Messages in this topic (6)

7d.

Re: so that's how they did it!

Posted by: "water.kresse@..." water.kresse@... al.kresse

Tue Jun 8, 2010 6:07 am (PDT)



Guys,



After WW2 the Auto Industry jobbed out a lot of the Station Wagon bodies to

small contractors who had built auto-type assemblies for the war efforts. Ionia

Mfg (Ionia, Michigan) produced extended Jeep bodies, truck box sub-assemblies

with seats and canvass, etc. They then produced Buick Stn Wagon bodies that

were shipped on their body trucks to Buick City in Flint, Michigan, to be

dropped on running frame assemblies to then have the bolt-on front end sheet

metal and bumpers added. I believe they produced other GM "Woody" Stn Wagon

bodies also. Fisher Body Chevy produced their own wagon bodies.



Great shot! Does anyone recognize the body style?



Al Kresse



----- Original Message -----

From: "Tim O'Connor" <timboconnor@ comcast.net>

To: STMFC@yahoogroups. com

Sent: Tuesday, June 8, 2010 2:25:09 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern

Subject: [STMFC] so that's how they did it!



A loaded Nickel Plate 50' auto box car -- notice the cars do

not have their wheels mounted!

http://cgi.ebay. com/ws/eBayISAPI .dll?ViewItem& item=25064458955 1



Tim O'Connor







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Messages in this topic (6)

7e.

Re: so that's how they did it!

Posted by: "water.kresse@..." water.kresse@... al.kresse

Tue Jun 8, 2010 6:08 am (PDT)



It was frame and running chassis separate from the bodies in those days!



----- Original Message -----

From: "Elden J SAD Gatwood " < elden .j. gatwood @ usace .army.mil>

To: STMFC @ yahoogroups .com

Sent: Tuesday, June 8, 2010 7:42:51 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern

Subject: RE: [ STMFC ] so that's how they did it!



Also the only way they could get them in there in 2 layers. No axles,

either?



Elden Gatwood



-----Original Message-----

From: STMFC @ yahoogroups .com [ mailto : STMFC @ yahoogroups .com] On Behalf Of

Tim

O'Connor

Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 2:25 AM

To: STMFC @ yahoogroups .com

Subject: [ STMFC ] so that's how they did it!







A loaded Nickel Plate 50' auto box car -- notice the cars do not have their

wheels mounted!

http :// cgi . ebay .com/ ws / eBayISAPI . dll ? ViewItem &item=250644589551



Tim O'Connor







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Messages in this topic (6)

7f.

Re: so that's how they did it!

Posted by: "water.kresse@..." water.kresse@... al.kresse

Tue Jun 8, 2010 6:15 am (PDT)



Later on, in the early-60s, they would ship the wagon bodies mounted on their

body trucks on double-deck flat cars. Once they got into the assembly plant, a

chain drive would grab the body truck (mounted on casters) to the body marraige

machine to be dropped on body mounts to be bolted on to the frame (just like a

full-sized truck today).



----- Original Message -----

From: "Elden J SAD Gatwood" <elden.j.gatwood@ usace.army. mil>

To: STMFC@yahoogroups. com

Sent: Tuesday, June 8, 2010 7:42:51 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern

Subject: RE: [STMFC] so that's how they did it!



Also the only way they could get them in there in 2 layers. No axles,

either?



Elden Gatwood



-----Original Message-----

From: STMFC@yahoogroups. com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Tim

O'Connor

Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 2:25 AM

To: STMFC@yahoogroups. com

Subject: [STMFC] so that's how they did it!







A loaded Nickel Plate 50' auto box car -- notice the cars do not have their

wheels mounted!

http://cgi.ebay. com/ws/eBayISAPI .dll?ViewItem& item=25064458955 1



Tim O'Connor







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Messages in this topic (6)

8a.

Liquid chloride Tankcar help

Posted by: "schmuck804_99" CSchmuck@... schmuck804_99

Tue Jun 8, 2010 1:51 am (PDT)



Hello,

I am looking for information to model this tiny tankcar:

http://picasaweb. google.com/ ErieChris333/ ProtoPhotos# 5480125587635072 754

I got DIAMOND ALKALI COMPANY Painesville, OH D.A.X.

The tank dia. looks small, I guess it to be around 63" from the photo.



Can you guys help, drawings would be a big plus!



Thanks

Chris



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Messages in this topic (4)

8b.

Re: Liquid chloride Tankcar help

Posted by: "Garth G. Groff" ggg9y@... ggg9y

Tue Jun 8, 2010 3:55 am (PDT)



Chris and friends,



Can't help with the tank car (neat, though!), but note the NP boxcar to

the right. Can't have a freight train without an NP box in the first ten

cars.



Kind regards,



Garth Groff



schmuck804_99 wrote:

Hello,
I am looking for information to model this tiny tankcar:
http://picasaweb. google.com/ ErieChris333/ ProtoPhotos# 5480125587635072 754
I got DIAMOND ALKALI COMPANY Painesville, OH D.A.X.
The tank dia. looks small, I guess it to be around 63" from the photo.
Can you guys help, drawings would be a big plus!
Thanks
Chris


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Messages in this topic (4)

8c.

Re: Liquid chloride Tankcar help

Posted by: "Gatwood, Elden J SAD" elden.j.gatwood@... prr8112

Tue Jun 8, 2010 4:37 am (PDT)



Had you already passed on the Trix car? It is about 6k, like that one, and

is also an insulated car with valve casing instead of dome. Admittedly, some

work to bring up to standard.



Elden Gatwood



-----Original Message-----

From: STMFC@yahoogroups. com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Garth

G. Groff

Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 6:56 AM

To: STMFC@yahoogroups. com

Subject: Re: [STMFC] Liquid chloride Tankcar help



Chris and friends,



Can't help with the tank car (neat, though!), but note the NP boxcar to the

right. Can't have a freight train without an NP box in the first ten cars.



Kind regards,



Garth Groff



schmuck804_99 wrote:

Hello,
I am looking for information to model this tiny tankcar:
http://picasaweb. google.com/ ErieChris333/ ProtoPhotos# 5480125587635072 7
54 I got DIAMOND ALKALI COMPANY Painesville, OH D.A.X.
The tank dia. looks small, I guess it to be around 63" from the photo.
Can you guys help, drawings would be a big plus!
Thanks
Chris


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Messages in this topic (4)

8d.

Re: Liquid chloride Tankcar help

Posted by: "al_brown03" abrown@... al_brown03

Tue Jun 8, 2010 4:52 am (PDT)



Well, the car has a pressure bonnet not a dome. The 1/53 ORER shows 81 tank

cars, AAR type TPI, ICC classes 105A300 (66 cars) and 105A300W (15 cars), 30 and

40 tons, in eleven groups between DAX 200-299. All but four cars are said to be

marked "Chlorine Gas Tank Car". I could convince myself this car's number is

212, one of three 40-ton cars in series 211-213. The capacity looks to be maybe

5000 gallons, which IIRC is a typical size for a steam-era chlorine tank; the

tank mounts differ from those on the other tank car shown, and suggest to me

this car may have been built by General American or Standard Tank. (See pictures

in Ted Culotta's tank car book.)



-- hth --



-- Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.



--- In STMFC@yahoogroups. com, "Garth G. Groff" <ggg9y@...> wrote:

Chris and friends,
Can't help with the tank car (neat, though!), but note the NP boxcar to
the right. Can't have a freight train without an NP box in the first ten
cars.
Kind regards,
Garth Groff
schmuck804_99 wrote:
Hello,
I am looking for information to model this tiny tankcar:
http://picasaweb. google.com/ ErieChris333/ ProtoPhotos# 5480125587635072
754

I got DIAMOND ALKALI COMPANY Painesville, OH D.A.X.
The tank dia. looks small, I guess it to be around 63" from the photo.
Can you guys help, drawings would be a big plus!
Thanks
Chris


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Messages in this topic (4)

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Re: Digest Number 6294

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Al Kresse writes:

What data source had these 1948 coal shipment sub-splits? . . . the book From Mine to Market, or a journal or report?

Al, Richard Prince's Norfolk & Western Railway, Pg 240...chapter on Freight Service. I should have included the reference. BTW, I have a mint copy for sell.

Mike Brock


Re: Fw: Digest Number 6294

jerryglow2
 

Thanks for taking care of that. I always thought replies from digests should not be allowed. Good reason why.

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@..., "Mike Brock" <brockm@...> wrote:

Guys,

You might notice that Don Valentine has sent a message to the STMFC. You
might also notice that he has managed to include about a hundred or more
copies of additional messages. Not good. I almost never edit a message but,
in this case, I have removed his message from the archives and forwarded his
message minus the other offending messages to the STMFC. This has been taken
care of so complaints are not required.



Mike Brock


Re: Digest Number 6294

Frederick Freitas <prrinvt@...>
 

Hi Don,
 
              I have pix of them on the western end of the PRR; and now that you mrntion it I can't recall
any that are east of Pittsburg.  This will make for a short research project for a rainy day.
Wish i had more to tell.
 
Fred Freitas

--- On Thu, 6/10/10, Don Valentine <riverman_vt@...> wrote:


From: Don Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Digest Number 6294
To: "No Reply" <notify-dg-STMFC@...>
Cc: STMFC@...
Date: Thursday, June 10, 2010, 12:38 PM


 



    I note that BLI will also be offering another run of N&W H-2a hoppers this year. Try as I might,
I cannot recall ever seeing a photo of one of the H-2a's in Northern New England in the 1945-1950 era. Were these cars strictly limited to the movement of tide coal or did some of them roam freely?

Thanks for any assistance, Don  Valentine

________________________________
From: "STMFC@..." <STMFC@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tue, June 8, 2010 9:15:21 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Digest Number 6294

Steam era freight car discussion group. The time period covered will be from 1900-1960.
Messages In This Digest (25 Messages)
1a.
Re: Champ decals--no longer available? From: Thomas Baker
1b.
Re: Champ decals--no longer available? From: Steve Hoxie
2a.
Re: decal finishing help From: Craig Zeni
3a.
Unusual Perishables From: wohrnell@...
4a.
Re: DL&W wood auto boxcars From: brianleppert@...
5a.
Re: Strange boxcar ID From: rwitt_2000
5b.
Re: Strange boxcar ID From: Richard Hendrickson
5c.
Re: Strange boxcar ID From: Richard Hendrickson
6a.
BLI NYC all-steel box cars From: Gene
6b.
Re: BLI NYC all-steel box cars From: Brian J Carlson
6c.
Re: BLI NYC all-steel box cars From: Tim O'Connor
6d.
Re: BLI NYC all-steel box cars From: pullmanboss
6e.
Re: BLI NYC all-steel box cars From: Tim O'Connor
6f.
Re: BLI NYC all-steel box cars From: barryb2again
6g.
Re: BLI NYC all-steel box cars From: gn3397
7a.
so that's how they did it! From: Tim O'Connor
7b.
Re: so that's how they did it! From: Barrybennetttoo@...
7c.
Re: so that's how they did it! From: Gatwood, Elden J SAD
7d.
Re: so that's how they did it! From: water.kresse@...
7e.
Re: so that's how they did it! From: water.kresse@...
7f.
Re: so that's how they did it! From: water.kresse@...
8a.
Liquid chloride Tankcar help From: schmuck804_99
8b.
Re: Liquid chloride Tankcar help From: Garth G. Groff
8c.
Re: Liquid chloride Tankcar help From: Gatwood, Elden J SAD
8d.
Re: Liquid chloride Tankcar help From: al_brown03 View All Topics | Create New Topic Messages
1a.
Re: Champ decals--no longer available?
Posted by: "Thomas Baker" bakert@...   millcitieslimited
Mon Jun 7, 2010 6:59 am (PDT)

Yesterday I explored the CHAMP website, read the notice of the inventory, equipment, etc being up for sale. Nevertheless, the site listed various decals still available. Do the people at CHAMP still respond to orders?

Tom



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Messages in this topic (2)
1b.
Re: Champ decals--no longer available?
Posted by: "Steve Hoxie" stevehprr@...   pennsylvania1954
Mon Jun 7, 2010 7:16 am (PDT)

Tom--You can definitely still order from Champ, and they ship promptly. They prefer online ordering; note the comments on the site about when they are working. They try to keep the website current with actual inventory so if you don't see it, it's gone.

Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups. com, Thomas Baker <bakert@...> wrote:


Yesterday I explored the CHAMP website, read the notice of the inventory, equipment, etc being up for sale. Nevertheless, the site listed various decals still available. Do the people at CHAMP still respond to orders?

Tom



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Messages in this topic (2)
2a.
Re: decal finishing help
Posted by: "Craig Zeni" clzeni@...   sal3060
Mon Jun 7, 2010 7:11 am (PDT)

The real answer to a good base finish is to use glossy paint in the
first place. I use Scalecoat and Scalecoat II (for plastic)
sprayed right from the bottle. It covers well and dries glossy.
Dry time is a little long but the finish is worth it.

Steve Kay

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups. com, "Brian J Carlson" <prrk41361@. ..> wrote:


I've not been happy with my last few decaling projects with Testor's
Glosscote. Lots of work with setting solutions and creative
weathering have
helped make them better but I am looking for other decal finishing
options.
I've used Glosscote for years originally from spray cans so any
thoughts are
appreciated. I've heard about Future from others anything special
I should
know. Spray right from bottle or dilute?

Brian J. Carlson, P.E.
Cheektowaga NY
prrk41361@.. .
I've also had good luck getting a decal-ready finish by mixing
Floquil 50/50 with their Glaze. Sprays fine through a Paasche double
action airbrush. Yes, also a bit slow to dry but like Steve says,
the finish is worth it. But if I can get the color I need in it, I'm
a Scalecoat painter.

Craig Zeni

Some mornings it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.

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Messages in this topic (24)
3a.
Unusual Perishables
Posted by: "wohrnell@..." wohrnell@...   lenny64118
Mon Jun 7, 2010 7:56 am (PDT)

Add roots to the list of Unusual Perishables.

W.L. Ohrnell

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Messages in this topic (4)
4a.
Re: DL&W wood auto boxcars
Posted by: "brianleppert@..." brianleppert@...   brianleppert@...
Mon Jun 7, 2010 8:08 am (PDT)

I have an original Magor drawing of the underframe arrangement for the DL&W 12800-12999 cars. It is almost an exact copy of the USRA 40-ton box car underframe.

Brian Leppert
Carson City, NV

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups. com, "Ken" <kobrien1600@ ...> wrote:

I'm looking for info and pictures about the wood door and a half auto boxcars of the DL&W in series 12000 to 12999...
Ken O'Brien
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Messages in this topic (4)
5a.
Re: Strange boxcar ID
Posted by: "rwitt_2000" rwitt_2000@...   rwitt_2000
Mon Jun 7, 2010 3:26 pm (PDT)

Ford and Don,

To my eyes both of the nominal 6-ft wide doors are still on the car.
With that assumption, the car could be either a B&O class M-27B with the
Tatum roof, which were rebuilt from the double door version of the M-27,
the class M-27A or a M-27F that were re-built from M-27B's starting in
1939 with the second door permanently fixed closed. In 1947, the stated
date of the photo, the B&O had 316 class M-27B's and 177 M-27F's on
their roster. Take your pick the boxcar could be hauling automobiles or
in general merchandise service.

There are photos, one by Paul Dunn from the Rich Burg Collection of a
M-27B, #295188 with re-weigh data of "COL 11-59" and one from the Jay
Williams Collection of a M-27F #382013 with re-weigh data of "CE 10-39"
of a very recent conversion at the Chillicothe, Ohio Car Shops with the
second door permanently fixed closed. There were still 112 class M-27B
operating in 1959, but by that time the Evans auto loaders were removed
making them suitable for general service.

Regards,

Bob Witt

P.S. What is strange to some is to others just the wonderful world of
John Tatum's inventions ;-).

Don Burn wrote:

It is a Baltimore and Ohio M27F, there was an article in the March
2001 RMC
on how to model these and they were covered in Ted Cullota's Essential
Freight Car series. See
http://steamfreight cars.com/ modeling/ models/harr/ bo382281main. html for
a
nice model of one.

Don Burn


-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups. com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf
Of
ford35lh
Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 2:28 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups. com
Subject: [STMFC] Strange boxcar ID

Can anyone ID the boxcar in this ebay image ???
It has a strange roof configuration I have never seen.
Drawings in print ???
Thanks
ford

ebay# 330439620059
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Messages in this topic (10)
5b.
Re: Strange boxcar ID
Posted by: "Richard Hendrickson" rhendrickson@...   n1605g
Mon Jun 7, 2010 4:00 pm (PDT)

On Jun 7, 2010, at 3:26 PM, rwitt_2000 wrote:

Ford and Don,

To my eyes both of the nominal 6-ft wide doors are still on the car.
With that assumption, the car could be either a B&O class M-27B
with the
Tatum roof, which were rebuilt from the double door version of the
M-27,
the class M-27A or a M-27F that were re-built from M-27B's starting in
1939 with the second door permanently fixed closed. In 1947, the
stated
date of the photo, the B&O had 316 class M-27B's and 177 M-27F's on
their roster. Take your pick the boxcar could be hauling
automobiles or
in general merchandise service.

There are photos, one by Paul Dunn from the Rich Burg Collection of a
M-27B, #295188 with re-weigh data of "COL 11-59" and one from the Jay
Williams Collection of a M-27F #382013 with re-weigh data of "CE
10-39"
of a very recent conversion at the Chillicothe, Ohio Car Shops with
the
second door permanently fixed closed. There were still 112 class
M-27B
operating in 1959, but by that time the Evans auto loaders were
removed
making them suitable for general service.
Other photos which I have and can provide to you in the form of
scans, are a Red Davis shot of B&O 295456 in Nebraska with a recent
12-56 reweigh date and a 1940 Kansas City photo from the Joe Collias
collection of a car with Chicago & Alton reporting marks and auto
loader markings on the doors, numbered 295003. My 1940 ORER shows 10
C&A cars numbered 295001-295010, but apparently their tenure on the
C&A was short, as they are not listed in the 10/41 ORER. The latter
photo is an indifferent image from a very grainy 35 mm neg, but
knowing Joe's darkroom work I'm sure the print I have is the best he
could get. And at least it documents that those ten cars did exist,
however briefly.

Richard Hendrickson



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Messages in this topic (10)
5c.
Re: Strange boxcar ID
Posted by: "Richard Hendrickson" rhendrickson@...   n1605g
Mon Jun 7, 2010 4:10 pm (PDT)

On Jun 7, 2010, at 3:26 PM, rwitt_2000 wrote:

There are photos, one by Paul Dunn from the Rich Burg Collection of a
M-27B, #295188 with re-weigh data of "COL 11-59" and one from the Jay
Williams Collection of a M-27F #382013 with re-weigh data of "CE
10-39"
of a very recent conversion at the Chillicothe, Ohio Car Shops with
the
second door permanently fixed closed.
Bob, it turns out that, after I sent my previous message, I discoverd
another photo of a M-27F. This one is from the Bob Lorenz collection
and shows B&O 295189 with a reweigh symbol and date of MC 10-36 and
auto loaders markings on the main door. It's interesting that this
car still had arch bar trucks at the time it was photographed.

Richard Hendrickson



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Messages in this topic (10)
6a.
BLI NYC all-steel box cars
Posted by: "Gene" bierglaeser@...   bierglaeser
Mon Jun 7, 2010 8:30 pm (PDT)

Broadway Limited has announced NYC steel boxcars. Would anyone care to comment on their accuracy judging from the available advertising material?

It appears these cars are intended to represent the NYC's 102500-106999, 107000-111999 and 121000-121999 number series as well as possibly other series. Will these be correct or close for these series? What about other series?

The paint schemes are identified as pre- and post-1955. Are the "pre-1955" correct for 1950 and earlier?

Here is a link:
http://www.broadway -limited. com/nycsteelboxc ars.aspx

Gene Green

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Messages in this topic (7)
6b.
Re: BLI NYC all-steel box cars
Posted by: "Brian J Carlson" prrk41361@...   prrk41361
Mon Jun 7, 2010 9:12 pm (PDT)

Gene these were discussed extensively on the list less than one month ago.
search the archives for "NYC Spec 486 boxcars." (Also look for spec 468
since I see many of the subject lines of the emails I saved had the 8 and 6
transposed)

Brian J. Carlson, P.E.

Cheektowaga NY

prrk41361@yahoo. com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Messages in this topic (7)
6c.
Re: BLI NYC all-steel box cars
Posted by: "Tim O'Connor" timboconnor@...   cf5250
Mon Jun 7, 2010 9:56 pm (PDT)

As Brian said you can find the discussion from last month... I'll just
say that my experience with BLI models is that they are good quality.
I have a GACX express reefer and some H2a hoppers. The reefer is very
well done. The question I have: are there decals/dry transfers out there
to letter these cars correctly for NYC?

Tim O'Connor

Broadway Limited has announced NYC steel boxcars. Would anyone care to comment on their accuracy judging from the available advertising material?

It appears these cars are intended to represent the NYC's 102500-106999, 107000-111999 and 121000-121999 number series as well as possibly other series. Will these be correct or close for these series? What about other series?

The paint schemes are identified as pre- and post-1955. Are the "pre-1955" correct for 1950 and earlier?

Here is a link:
http://www.broadway -limited. com/nycsteelboxc ars.aspx

Gene Green
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Messages in this topic (7)
6d.
Re: BLI NYC all-steel box cars
Posted by: "pullmanboss" tcmadden@q.com   pullmanboss
Mon Jun 7, 2010 10:08 pm (PDT)

Tim O'Connor asked:

The question I have: are there decals/dry transfers out there
to letter these cars correctly for NYC?
See: http://www.speedwit ch.com/Decals/ d107.htm

Tom Madden

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Messages in this topic (7)
6e.
Re: BLI NYC all-steel box cars
Posted by: "Tim O'Connor" timboconnor@...   cf5250
Tue Jun 8, 2010 12:27 am (PDT)

Thanks Tom, but I should have been more specific -- I meant
decals for the mid to late 1950's. After a search through my
catalogs and decals I've found nothing appropriate to model
this car or cars like it:

http://www.broadway -limited. com/images/ NYC%20105065% 20%28resized% 20for%20web% 29.jpg

CDS and Mark Vaughan did sets for this style of repaint but
only for postwar AAR (CDS) and prewar AAR (MV) -- so the data
are in the correct style but are not for the much smaller
spec 486 cars. And of course Ted is not interested in the
later 50's (although he did a nice set for SP repaints).

So it's factory paint for me! (Not my preference.)

Tim O'Connor

At 6/8/2010 01:08 AM Tuesday, you wrote:
Tim O'Connor asked:

The question I have: are there decals/dry transfers out there
to letter these cars correctly for NYC?
See: http://www.speedwit ch.com/Decals/ d107.htm

Tom Madden
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Messages in this topic (7)
6f.
Re: BLI NYC all-steel box cars
Posted by: "barryb2again" Barrybennetttoo@...   barryb2again
Tue Jun 8, 2010 12:38 am (PDT)

Having reviewed tha earlier posts and then read the BLI blurb I note that BLI have said that they will not be producing models with repair patches.

Taking Richard Hendrickson' s manuscript comments that the cars suffered the same body rot problems as the X29 cars and that all of them received patch panel repairs then the BLI cars are not much use as produced for anyone that models the 1950's.

So it looks like buy undecs, add patch panels and then paint and decal. Or maybe I will just build my store of Westerfield kits instead.

Barry Bennett

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Messages in this topic (7)
6g.
Re: BLI NYC all-steel box cars
Posted by: "gn3397" heninger@...   gn3397
Tue Jun 8, 2010 5:45 am (PDT)

Tim (and Group),
An alternative would be to supply Mr. Glow with a nice broadside photo or twelve, and ask him if he would be interested in generating the artwork. A set that includes the later 50s style of NYC lettering would be useful to many modelers, especially as a larger portion of the hobby moves to a post STMFC era for their modeling.

Sincerely,
Bob Heninger
Iowa City, IA

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups. com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@ ...> wrote:

Thanks Tom, but I should have been more specific -- I meant
decals for the mid to late 1950's. After a search through my
catalogs and decals I've found nothing appropriate to model
this car or cars like it:

http://www.broadway -limited. com/images/ NYC%20105065% 20%28resized% 20for%20web% 29.jpg

CDS and Mark Vaughan did sets for this style of repaint but
only for postwar AAR (CDS) and prewar AAR (MV) -- so the data
are in the correct style but are not for the much smaller
spec 486 cars. And of course Ted is not interested in the
later 50's (although he did a nice set for SP repaints).

So it's factory paint for me! (Not my preference.)

Tim O'Connor


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Messages in this topic (7)
7a.
so that's how they did it!
Posted by: "Tim O'Connor" timboconnor@...   cf5250
Tue Jun 8, 2010 12:00 am (PDT)

A loaded Nickel Plate 50' auto box car -- notice the cars do
not have their wheels mounted!
http://cgi.ebay. com/ws/eBayISAPI .dll?ViewItem& item=25064458955 1

Tim O'Connor

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Messages in this topic (6)
7b.
Re: so that's how they did it!
Posted by: "Barrybennetttoo@..." Barrybennetttoo@...   barryb2again
Tue Jun 8, 2010 12:09 am (PDT)

They don't appear to me to have anything much mounted, maybe just car
bodies being shipped to an assembly plant.

Barry Bennett

In a message dated 08/06/2010 07:01:20 GMT Standard Time,
timboconnor@ comcast.net writes:

A loaded Nickel Plate 50' auto box car -- notice the cars do
not have their wheels mounted!
_http://cgi.ebay. com/ws/eBayISAPI .dll?ViewItem& item=25064458955 1_
(http://cgi.ebay. com/ws/eBayISAPI .dll?ViewItem& item=25064458955 1)

Tim O'Connor



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Messages in this topic (6)
7c.
Re: so that's how they did it!
Posted by: "Gatwood, Elden J SAD" elden.j.gatwood@...   prr8112
Tue Jun 8, 2010 4:44 am (PDT)

Also the only way they could get them in there in 2 layers. No axles,
either?

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups. com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Tim
O'Connor
Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 2:25 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups. com
Subject: [STMFC] so that's how they did it!

A loaded Nickel Plate 50' auto box car -- notice the cars do not have their
wheels mounted!
http://cgi.ebay. com/ws/eBayISAPI .dll?ViewItem& item=25064458955 1

Tim O'Connor

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Messages in this topic (6)
7d.
Re: so that's how they did it!
Posted by: "water.kresse@..." water.kresse@...   al.kresse
Tue Jun 8, 2010 6:07 am (PDT)

Guys,

After WW2 the Auto Industry jobbed out a lot of the Station Wagon bodies to small contractors who had built auto-type assemblies for the war efforts.  Ionia Mfg (Ionia, Michigan) produced extended Jeep bodies, truck box sub-assemblies with seats and canvass, etc.  They then produced Buick Stn Wagon bodies that were shipped on their body trucks to Buick City in Flint, Michigan, to be dropped on running frame assemblies to then have the bolt-on front end sheet metal and bumpers added.  I believe they produced other GM "Woody" Stn Wagon bodies also.  Fisher Body Chevy produced their own wagon bodies.

Great shot!  Does anyone recognize the body style?

Al Kresse

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim O'Connor" <timboconnor@ comcast.net>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups. com
Sent: Tuesday, June 8, 2010 2:25:09 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: [STMFC] so that's how they did it!

A loaded Nickel Plate 50' auto box car -- notice the cars do
not have their wheels mounted!
http://cgi.ebay. com/ws/eBayISAPI .dll?ViewItem& item=25064458955 1

Tim O'Connor



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Messages in this topic (6)
7e.
Re: so that's how they did it!
Posted by: "water.kresse@..." water.kresse@...   al.kresse
Tue Jun 8, 2010 6:08 am (PDT)

It was frame and running chassis separate from the bodies in those days!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Elden J SAD Gatwood " < elden .j. gatwood @ usace .army.mil>
To: STMFC @ yahoogroups .com
Sent: Tuesday, June 8, 2010 7:42:51 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: RE: [ STMFC ] so that's how they did it!

Also the only way they could get them in there in 2 layers.  No axles,
either?

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC @ yahoogroups .com [ mailto : STMFC @ yahoogroups .com] On Behalf Of Tim
O'Connor
Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 2:25 AM
To: STMFC @ yahoogroups .com
Subject: [ STMFC ] so that's how they did it!

  

A loaded Nickel Plate 50' auto box car -- notice the cars do not have their
wheels mounted!
http :// cgi . ebay .com/ ws / eBayISAPI . dll ? ViewItem &item=250644589551

Tim O'Connor

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Messages in this topic (6)
7f.
Re: so that's how they did it!
Posted by: "water.kresse@..." water.kresse@...   al.kresse
Tue Jun 8, 2010 6:15 am (PDT)

Later on, in the early-60s, they would ship the wagon bodies mounted on their body trucks on double-deck flat cars.  Once they got into the assembly plant, a chain drive would grab the body truck (mounted on casters) to the body marraige machine to be dropped on body mounts to be bolted on to the frame (just like a full-sized truck today).

----- Original Message -----
From: "Elden J SAD Gatwood" <elden.j.gatwood@ usace.army. mil>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups. com
Sent: Tuesday, June 8, 2010 7:42:51 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: RE: [STMFC] so that's how they did it!

Also the only way they could get them in there in 2 layers.  No axles,
either?

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups. com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Tim
O'Connor
Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 2:25 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups. com
Subject: [STMFC] so that's how they did it!

  

A loaded Nickel Plate 50' auto box car -- notice the cars do not have their
wheels mounted!
http://cgi.ebay. com/ws/eBayISAPI .dll?ViewItem& item=25064458955 1

Tim O'Connor



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Messages in this topic (6)
8a.
Liquid chloride Tankcar help
Posted by: "schmuck804_99" CSchmuck@...   schmuck804_99
Tue Jun 8, 2010 1:51 am (PDT)

Hello,
I am looking for information to model this tiny tankcar:
http://picasaweb. google.com/ ErieChris333/ ProtoPhotos# 5480125587635072 754
I got DIAMOND ALKALI COMPANY Painesville, OH D.A.X.
The tank dia. looks small, I guess it to be around 63" from the photo.

Can you guys help, drawings would be a big plus!

Thanks
Chris

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Messages in this topic (4)
8b.
Re: Liquid chloride Tankcar help
Posted by: "Garth G. Groff" ggg9y@...   ggg9y
Tue Jun 8, 2010 3:55 am (PDT)

Chris and friends,

Can't help with the tank car (neat, though!), but note the NP boxcar to
the right. Can't have a freight train without an NP box in the first ten
cars.

Kind regards,

Garth Groff

schmuck804_99 wrote:
Hello,
I am looking for information to model this tiny tankcar:
http://picasaweb. google.com/ ErieChris333/ ProtoPhotos# 5480125587635072 754
I got DIAMOND ALKALI COMPANY Painesville, OH D.A.X.
The tank dia. looks small, I guess it to be around 63" from the photo.

Can you guys help, drawings would be a big plus!

Thanks
Chris
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Messages in this topic (4)
8c.
Re: Liquid chloride Tankcar help
Posted by: "Gatwood, Elden J SAD" elden.j.gatwood@...   prr8112
Tue Jun 8, 2010 4:37 am (PDT)

Had you already passed on the Trix car? It is about 6k, like that one, and
is also an insulated car with valve casing instead of dome. Admittedly, some
work to bring up to standard.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups. com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Garth
G. Groff
Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 6:56 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Liquid chloride Tankcar help

Chris and friends,

Can't help with the tank car (neat, though!), but note the NP boxcar to the
right. Can't have a freight train without an NP box in the first ten cars.

Kind regards,

Garth Groff

schmuck804_99 wrote:
Hello,
I am looking for information to model this tiny tankcar:
http://picasaweb. google.com/ ErieChris333/ ProtoPhotos# 5480125587635072 7
54 I got DIAMOND ALKALI COMPANY Painesville, OH D.A.X.
The tank dia. looks small, I guess it to be around 63" from the photo.

Can you guys help, drawings would be a big plus!

Thanks
Chris
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Messages in this topic (4)
8d.
Re: Liquid chloride Tankcar help
Posted by: "al_brown03" abrown@...   al_brown03
Tue Jun 8, 2010 4:52 am (PDT)

Well, the car has a pressure bonnet not a dome. The 1/53 ORER shows 81 tank cars, AAR type TPI, ICC classes 105A300 (66 cars) and 105A300W (15 cars), 30 and 40 tons, in eleven groups between DAX 200-299. All but four cars are said to be marked "Chlorine Gas Tank Car". I could convince myself this car's number is 212, one of three 40-ton cars in series 211-213. The capacity looks to be maybe 5000 gallons, which IIRC is a typical size for a steam-era chlorine tank; the tank mounts differ from those on the other tank car shown, and suggest to me this car may have been built by General American or Standard Tank. (See pictures in Ted Culotta's tank car book.)

-- hth --

-- Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups. com, "Garth G. Groff" <ggg9y@...> wrote:

Chris and friends,

Can't help with the tank car (neat, though!), but note the NP boxcar to
the right. Can't have a freight train without an NP box in the first ten
cars.

Kind regards,


Garth Groff

schmuck804_99 wrote:
Hello,
I am looking for information to model this tiny tankcar:
http://picasaweb. google.com/ ErieChris333/ ProtoPhotos# 5480125587635072 754
I got DIAMOND ALKALI COMPANY Painesville, OH D.A.X.
The tank dia. looks small, I guess it to be around 63" from the photo.

Can you guys help, drawings would be a big plus!

Thanks
Chris
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Messages in this topic (4)
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Digest Number 6294

water.kresse@...
 

Mike,



What data source had these 1948 coal shipment sub-splits? . . . the book From Mine to Market, or a journal or report?



Al Kresse

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Brock" <brockm@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2010 11:18:35 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Fw: [STMFC] Digest Number 6294

Guys,

You might notice that Don Valentine has sent a message to the STMFC. You
might also notice that he has managed to include about a hundred or more
copies of additional messages. Not good. I almost never edit a message but,
in this case, I have removed his message from the archives and forwarded his
message minus the other offending messages to the STMFC. This has been taken
care of so complaints are not required.

Don says:

"Try as I might,
I cannot recall ever seeing a photo of one of the H-2a's in Northern New
England in the 1945-1950 era. Were these cars strictly limited to the
movement of tide coal or did some of them roam freely?"

I will also reply that all [ a dangerous word ] N&W hoppers "roamed" but,
perhaps not freely. They carried coal from mines generally served by the N&W
to many locations...some served by N&W, some not. Many observers not
intimately in tune with N&W operations seem to believe that the primary coal
traffic generated by N&W in 1948 [ for example ] was between Roanoke, VA,
and Norfolk, VA for shipment by water to various locations...including, BTW,
northern New England...wherever that is. Actually, however, of the 52
million tons of commercial coal shipped by N&W, 22 million went into the
midwest [ uh oh...Illinois, Indiana, Ohio ], 10 million into Great Lake
ships, 10 million through Norfolk, and the rest into the Carolinas, MD, VA
and DC. Perhaps the significance of this is the fact that the majority of
coal traffic from N&W served mines ended up traveling on foreign rails. Note
that 32 million tons went through or into the...uh...midwest and N&W rails
did not extend north of Columbus, OH. It is probably true that N&W generated
by far most of the coal traffic from the mines it served, but on the other
end, in the...uh...midwest...its cars carried probably most of its generated
coal on other RR's...perhaps primarily on the Pennsy and NYC. Some of the
more curious movies and photos are of Pennsy leased Santa Fe 2-10-4's
pulling long strings of N&W hoppers north from Columbus...on Pennsy rails.


Mike Brock


Re: PATCHING, and fine scale chain

Kenneth Montero
 

Jared,

Have you examined the Central Valley bridge kit for a 150 foot Pratt Truss pin-connected single track bridge? Central Valley makes both an HO and N scale kit for this bridge. Here is a link to its website: http://www.cvmw.com/

The HO kit has been around for a while. The N scale kit is new.

Ken Montero

----- Original Message -----
From: "almabranch" <harperandbrown@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 12:36:48 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: [STMFC] Re: PATCHING, and fine scale chain






The bridges are beautiful. I need a single track pin connected Pratt Truss for my Alma branch layout. The one at the Traincat website is beautiful, albeit too heavy for my line.
Jared Harper
Athens, GA

--- In STMFC@... , "Jack Burgess" <jack@...> wrote:

There is 52 links per inch chain available along with photo-etched 72 lpi
chain although it is two-dimensional:

http://www.traincat2.com/


Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyrr.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: PATCHING, and fine scale chain

Jared Harper
 

The bridges are beautiful. I need a single track pin connected Pratt Truss for my Alma branch layout. The one at the Traincat website is beautiful, albeit too heavy for my line.
Jared Harper
Athens, GA

--- In STMFC@..., "Jack Burgess" <jack@...> wrote:

There is 52 links per inch chain available along with photo-etched 72 lpi
chain although it is two-dimensional:

http://www.traincat2.com/


Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyrr.com


Fw: Digest Number 6294

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Guys,

You might notice that Don Valentine has sent a message to the STMFC. You might also notice that he has managed to include about a hundred or more copies of additional messages. Not good. I almost never edit a message but, in this case, I have removed his message from the archives and forwarded his message minus the other offending messages to the STMFC. This has been taken care of so complaints are not required.

Don says:

"Try as I might,
I cannot recall ever seeing a photo of one of the H-2a's in Northern New England in the 1945-1950 era. Were these cars strictly limited to the movement of tide coal or did some of them roam freely?"

I will also reply that all [ a dangerous word ] N&W hoppers "roamed" but, perhaps not freely. They carried coal from mines generally served by the N&W to many locations...some served by N&W, some not. Many observers not intimately in tune with N&W operations seem to believe that the primary coal traffic generated by N&W in 1948 [ for example ] was between Roanoke, VA, and Norfolk, VA for shipment by water to various locations...including, BTW, northern New England...wherever that is. Actually, however, of the 52 million tons of commercial coal shipped by N&W, 22 million went into the midwest [ uh oh...Illinois, Indiana, Ohio ], 10 million into Great Lake ships, 10 million through Norfolk, and the rest into the Carolinas, MD, VA and DC. Perhaps the significance of this is the fact that the majority of coal traffic from N&W served mines ended up traveling on foreign rails. Note that 32 million tons went through or into the...uh...midwest and N&W rails did not extend north of Columbus, OH. It is probably true that N&W generated by far most of the coal traffic from the mines it served, but on the other end, in the...uh...midwest...its cars carried probably most of its generated coal on other RR's...perhaps primarily on the Pennsy and NYC. Some of the more curious movies and photos are of Pennsy leased Santa Fe 2-10-4's pulling long strings of N&W hoppers north from Columbus...on Pennsy rails.


Mike Brock

102861 - 102880 of 193639