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Cane cars - BREX

Rupert & Maureen <gamlenz@...>
 

In the January 1927 Railway & Locomotive Engineering magazine (downloadable with a number of other issues at www.archive.net) is the following



"The Burlington Refrigerator Express Company has ordered 100 cane cars of 15 tons capacity from the Gregg Car Company."



I am aware of the sort of cars used to carry sugar cane but I can't see the connection to BREX, especially I understand that Florida and Louisiana are the usual regions for that crop and therefore outside the normal BREX sphere of operations.



Any suggestions please.



Rupert Gamlen

Auckland NZ
Re: Proto AAR Standard 50 Ton NKP 3000 Flatcar

Mark
 

Thanks for the info about the photos in CBC. I have 1940 and 1956 and no luck in them. I will keep looking and maybe the local library might have it.

Mark

--- On Sat, 5/1/10, Ed Hawkins <hawk0621@...> wrote:

From: Ed Hawkins <hawk0621@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Proto AAR Standard 50 Ton NKP 3000 Flatcar
To: STMFC@...
Date: Saturday, May 1, 2010, 10:09 AM







 











On May 1, 2010, at 6:38 AM, Mark Morgan wrote:



Jeff thanks. The kit had the steps mount inside and they look to
heavy. Sure wish there was a nice photo of this car.


Mark,

There is a Pullman-Standard builder's photo of NKP 3038, built 11-42,

on page 200 of the 1946 CBC, page 147 of the 1949/51 CBC, and page 135

of the 1953 CBC.

Regards,

Ed Hawkins



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Proto AAR Standard 50 Ton NKP 3000 Flatcar

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
Rich, your information is incorrect.
CAST IRON wheels were prohibited only for NEW cars in 1958.
They were prohibited as REPLACEMENT wheels after 1963.
They were outlawed for interchange in 1968.
RIBBED wheels were never outlawed as such. Some all-steel forged wheels had ribs.
All correct; and plenty of cast iron wheels had plain backs, too. Ribs are NOT a spotting feature of iron wheels.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history
Sunshine kits website upgraded

Jim Hayes
 

I've added a new page to my website - "Instructions"
www.sunshinekits.com/instructions.html This new page contains, what else,
Sunshine kit instructions. I still have some of my own kit instructions to
add. When I'm done loading mine, I may ask for contributions from you good
people.

Comments and suggestions welcome. Error reporting too.

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon
www.sunshinekits.com
Re: Proto AAR Standard 50 Ton NKP 3000 Flatcar (question)

mopacfirst
 

Perfect. The 3100 does have the stake pocket arrangement of the Proto car, I have a good inventory of the Tangent 70-ton truck, so looks like this is a good project. Now to add it to the other hundred or so that I think will not take me much time to do.....

Ron Merrick

--- In STMFC@..., Ray Breyer <rtbsvrr69@...> wrote:


So, now, does anybody have a good end view of the bulkhead<snip>
Hi Ron,

I've got a few shots of 3100's with bulkheads (NOT the 3000s; they're different cars, built ten years earlier, and which NEVER got bulkheads), including a top-down angle shot of 3121. The IM bulkheads will work; I just compared them to the prototype, and besides a couple of minor details they look VERY close.

Be careful as to which cars you add a bulkhead to. The NKP only converted 15 of these cars in March and April, 1960: 3105, 3106, 3115, 3116, 3121, 3124, 3126, 3128, 3155, 3160, 3177, 3184, 3186, 3188 and 3189.

Regards,
Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL
Re: Proto AAR Standard 50 Ton NKP 3000 Flatcar (question)

Jeff Coleman
 

Ray

you beat me to it, just looked it up.

Jeff Coleman

--- In STMFC@..., Ray Breyer <rtbsvrr69@...> wrote:


I believe the NKP 3100 series
bulkhead flats were as built and not converted but I'm not
at home, will double check the NKP book later today.
Jeff Coleman
Nope. The 3100s were built in 1951, and 15 of the 150 cars had homemade bulkheads made and installed in 1960.

Regards,
Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL
Re: Proto AAR Standard 50 Ton NKP 3000 Flatcar (question)

Ray Breyer
 

I believe the NKP 3100 series
bulkhead flats were as built and not converted but I'm not
at home, will double check the NKP book later today.
Jeff Coleman
Nope. The 3100s were built in 1951, and 15 of the 150 cars had homemade bulkheads made and installed in 1960.

Regards,
Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL
Re: Proto AAR Standard 50 Ton NKP 3000 Flatcar (question)

Ray Breyer
 

So, now, does anybody have a good end view of the bulkhead
on the NKP 3000 series cars that were so converted?  Would
it be close to steal the parts from an IM car? 
Ron Merrick
Hi Ron,

I've got a few shots of 3100's with bulkheads (NOT the 3000s; they're different cars, built ten years earlier, and which NEVER got bulkheads), including a top-down angle shot of 3121. The IM bulkheads will work; I just compared them to the prototype, and besides a couple of minor details they look VERY close.

Be careful as to which cars you add a bulkhead to. The NKP only converted 15 of these cars in March and April, 1960: 3105, 3106, 3115, 3116, 3121, 3124, 3126, 3128, 3155, 3160, 3177, 3184, 3186, 3188 and 3189.

Regards,
Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL
Re: Proto AAR Standard 50 Ton NKP 3000 Flatcar (question)

mopacfirst
 

Only book I have is the one NKP shares with WAB and others, and all it shows is one of the 42' 12-stake flats as a TOFC car, p. 73.

Ron Merrick

--- In STMFC@..., "traininsp" <Bbear746@...> wrote:

I believe the NKP 3100 series bulkhead flats were as built and not converted but I'm not at home, will double check the NKP book later today.

Jeff Coleman

--- In STMFC@..., "mopacfirst" <ron.merrick@> wrote:

So, now, does anybody have a good end view of the bulkhead on the NKP <snip>

Ron Merrick
Re: Proto AAR Standard 50 Ton NKP 3000 Flatcar (question)

Jeff Coleman
 

I believe the NKP 3100 series bulkhead flats were as built and not converted but I'm not at home, will double check the NKP book later today.

Jeff Coleman

--- In STMFC@..., "mopacfirst" <ron.merrick@...> wrote:

So, now, does anybody have a good end view of the bulkhead on the NKP 3000 series cars that were so converted? Would it be close to steal the parts from an IM car? It looks like one of those simple ones made from channel, but side-only views aren't usually good enough to tell.

There is a Hendrickson article on the Proto flats in June and August 1999 RMJ, but I believe it's the flats only and not later conversions.

Ron Merrick
Re: Proto AAR Standard 50 Ton NKP 3000 Flatcar (question)

mopacfirst
 

So, now, does anybody have a good end view of the bulkhead on the NKP 3000 series cars that were so converted? Would it be close to steal the parts from an IM car? It looks like one of those simple ones made from channel, but side-only views aren't usually good enough to tell.

There is a Hendrickson article on the Proto flats in June and August 1999 RMJ, but I believe it's the flats only and not later conversions.

Ron Merrick
Re: Proto AAR Standard 50 Ton NKP 3000 Flatcar

mopacfirst
 

Here's a bulkhead flat version:

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/nkp/nkp3116ajs.jpg

I'd use the A-Line style A, and those are the Tangent 70-ton trucks under the car pictured.

I believe the kit steps were designed to fit behind the carside, so you might discard those and add the A-line steps, after adding a bit of styrene behind the side if it's too thin to drill. (Mine all have the kit steps, and they don't look too thick to me, but I seem to have put wire grabs in the ones I can see on the railroad.

BTW, I have forgotten what I used to glue the deck on, but probably Shoe Goo or similar. Several of them have peeled up in a reverse curve (upward about an inch back of the end, then back down at the very end). The ones I've caught probably were repaired with ACC, but I just found a new curly one.

--- In STMFC@..., Mark Morgan <bnonut@...> wrote:

Jeff thanks. The kit had the steps mount inside and they look to heavy. Sure wish there was a nice photo of this car.

Sincerely, Mark


--- On Fri, 4/30/10, traininsp <Bbear746@...> wrote:

From: traininsp <Bbear746@...>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Proto AAR Standard 50 Ton NKP 3000 Flatcar
To: STMFC@...
Date: Friday, April 30, 2010, 8:06 PM

Mark



Per NKP Diagrams of Freight Cars: Group 11, Sheet 5, 50 Ton Flat 3000-3049. The sill steps are the side mount type. Trucks are double truss, springs: AAR coil 1936 design 4 outer & 1 Simplex unit snubber per nest. Wheels: AAR 33" cast iron with 51/2" X 10" journals.



Jeff Coleman



--- In STMFC@yahoogroups. com, "Mark M" <bnonut@> wrote:

I am building this kit. Replaced the plastic grab irons.
What metal stirrup steps would be on this car(style A?). Have A-line metal style A and DA styles side and bottom mount.

Are the supplied trucks correct? Have no photo of this car. Found a 2700 series in 1940 Car Builders which looks similar to this car.

Any help will be great.
Sincerely, Mark Morgan
Re: Proto AAR Standard 50 Ton NKP 3000 Flatcar

Ed Hawkins
 

On May 1, 2010, at 6:38 AM, Mark Morgan wrote:

Jeff thanks. The kit had the steps mount inside and they look to
heavy. Sure wish there was a nice photo of this car.
Mark,
There is a Pullman-Standard builder's photo of NKP 3038, built 11-42,
on page 200 of the 1946 CBC, page 147 of the 1949/51 CBC, and page 135
of the 1953 CBC.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins
Re: Proto AAR Standard 50 Ton NKP 3000 Flatcar

Mark
 

Jeff thanks. The kit had the steps mount inside and they look to heavy. Sure wish there was a nice photo of this car.

Sincerely, Mark

--- On Fri, 4/30/10, traininsp <Bbear746@...> wrote:

From: traininsp <Bbear746@...>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Proto AAR Standard 50 Ton NKP 3000 Flatcar
To: STMFC@...
Date: Friday, April 30, 2010, 8:06 PM







 









Mark



Per NKP Diagrams of Freight Cars: Group 11, Sheet 5, 50 Ton Flat 3000-3049. The sill steps are the side mount type. Trucks are double truss, springs: AAR coil 1936 design 4 outer & 1 Simplex unit snubber per nest. Wheels: AAR 33" cast iron with 51/2" X 10" journals.



Jeff Coleman



--- In STMFC@yahoogroups. com, "Mark M" <bnonut@...> wrote:

I am building this kit. Replaced the plastic grab irons.
What metal stirrup steps would be on this car(style A?). Have A-line metal style A and DA styles side and bottom mount.
Are the supplied trucks correct? Have no photo of this car. Found a 2700 series in 1940 Car Builders which looks similar to this car.
Any help will be great.
Sincerely, Mark Morgan
























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
BOOK QUESTION

brooklynbus <mec-bml@...>
 

GENTLEMAN:Has anyone in the group purchased a book by Lance Mindheim titled ""Realistic Trackplans for a spare room"""?one of the chapters covers a MAINE Shortline,which shortline?
Thanks and if this can be answered off line then PLEASE do...
Joel Norman
Re: Proto AAR Standard 50 Ton NKP 3000 Flatcar

Jeff Coleman
 

Mark

Per NKP Diagrams of Freight Cars: Group 11, Sheet 5, 50 Ton Flat 3000-3049. The sill steps are the side mount type. Trucks are double truss, springs: AAR coil 1936 design 4 outer & 1 Simplex unit snubber per nest. Wheels: AAR 33" cast iron with 51/2" X 10" journals.

Jeff Coleman

--- In STMFC@..., "Mark M" <bnonut@...> wrote:

I am building this kit. Replaced the plastic grab irons.
What metal stirrup steps would be on this car(style A?). Have A-line metal style A and DA styles side and bottom mount.

Are the supplied trucks correct? Have no photo of this car. Found a 2700 series in 1940 Car Builders which looks similar to this car.

Any help will be great.
Sincerely, Mark Morgan
Re: Proto AAR Standard 50 Ton NKP 3000 Flatcar

Larry Wolohon
 

-- Sent from my Palm Prē

On Apr 30, 2010 5:36 PM, Tim O'Connor &lt;timboconnor@...> wrote:


&nbsp;












Correction: (I was quoting an old email from R Hendrickson)



Cast iron wheels were finally outlawed after Jan 1, 1970.



Tim O'Connor



At 4/30/2010 02:54 PM Friday, you wrote:



Rich, your information is incorrect.
CAST IRON wheels were prohibited only for NEW cars in 1958.
They were prohibited as REPLACEMENT wheels after 1963.
They were outlawed for interchange in 1968.
RIBBED wheels were never outlawed as such. Some all-steel
forged wheels had ribs.
&gt;

Tim O'Connor
At 4/30/2010 08:42 AM Friday, you wrote:
Mark, Style "A" is correct. The trucks in the kit are correct, however the wheelset may not be. Depending on your modeling period. Proto 2000 has historically shipped ribbed back wheelsets with most of their kits. They were banned for interchange service in 1958. After WW2 all new cars were built with smooth back wheels. I don't know off the top of my head when the 3000 series was built.
Rich Christie




























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Proto AAR Standard 50 Ton NKP 3000 Flatcar

Tim O'Connor
 

Correction: (I was quoting an old email from R Hendrickson)

Cast iron wheels were finally outlawed after Jan 1, 1970.

Tim O'Connor

At 4/30/2010 02:54 PM Friday, you wrote:

Rich, your information is incorrect.

CAST IRON wheels were prohibited only for NEW cars in 1958.

They were prohibited as REPLACEMENT wheels after 1963.

They were outlawed for interchange in 1968.

RIBBED wheels were never outlawed as such. Some all-steel
forged wheels had ribs.

Tim O'Connor



At 4/30/2010 08:42 AM Friday, you wrote:
Mark, Style "A" is correct. The trucks in the kit are correct, however the wheelset may not be. Depending on your modeling period. Proto 2000 has historically shipped ribbed back wheelsets with most of their kits. They were banned for interchange service in 1958. After WW2 all new cars were built with smooth back wheels. I don't know off the top of my head when the 3000 series was built.
Rich Christie
Re: Proto AAR Standard 50 Ton NKP 3000 Flatcar

Rich C
 

I stand corrected, thanks Tim. I should have cosulted my timeline, first.
 
Rich Christie

--- On Fri, 4/30/10, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Proto AAR Standard 50 Ton NKP 3000 Flatcar
To: STMFC@...
Date: Friday, April 30, 2010, 1:54 PM


 




Rich, your information is incorrect.

CAST IRON wheels were prohibited only for NEW cars in 1958.

They were prohibited as REPLACEMENT wheels after 1963.

They were outlawed for interchange in 1968.

RIBBED wheels were never outlawed as such. Some all-steel
forged wheels had ribs.

Tim O'Connor

At 4/30/2010 08:42 AM Friday, you wrote:
Mark, Style "A" is correct. The trucks in the kit are correct, however the wheelset may not be. Depending on your modeling period. Proto 2000 has historically shipped ribbed back wheelsets with most of their kits. They were banned for interchange service in 1958. After WW2 all new cars were built with smooth back wheels. I don't know off the top of my head when the 3000 series was built.
Rich Christie










[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Proto AAR Standard 50 Ton NKP 3000 Flatcar

Tim O'Connor
 

Rich, your information is incorrect.

CAST IRON wheels were prohibited only for NEW cars in 1958.

They were prohibited as REPLACEMENT wheels after 1963.

They were outlawed for interchange in 1968.

RIBBED wheels were never outlawed as such. Some all-steel
forged wheels had ribs.

Tim O'Connor

At 4/30/2010 08:42 AM Friday, you wrote:
Mark, Style "A" is correct. The trucks in the kit are correct, however the wheelset may not be. Depending on your modeling period. Proto 2000 has historically shipped ribbed back wheelsets with most of their kits. They were banned for interchange service in 1958. After WW2 all new cars were built with smooth back wheels. I don't know off the top of my head when the 3000 series was built.
Rich Christie
103541 - 103560 of 193511