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Re: CG 7115 PS-1
Ed Hawkins
On Feb 21, 2011, at 7:03 PM, john66h wrote:
Hello All,John, In 1998 I spent some time researching various Pullman-Standard correspondence files located at the Illinois Railway Museum. According to the paint specifications that were in the file for lot number 8030, CG 7000-7299, the sides were painted Glidden Metallic Brown. The ends, roofs, & underframes received a coat of black car cement, and the trucks received a light-bodied coat of black paint. This was Pullman-Standard's "standard" method at the time to paint a PS-1 box car. Railroads were allowed to deviate from the "standard" that Pullman-Standard quoted in their PS-1 specification, but it cost more money to do so. Some railroads deviated anyway. The correspondence file indicated both white and aluminum stencil paste was used for lettering the cars. Presumably the white was for the sides and aluminum was used over black car cement. The aluminum pigment applied to black car cement was for the purpose of longevity, as it was thought that white stencil paste wouldn't last as long. This document was the basis for the paint specs as they were stated in RP CYC Volume 4. Regards, Ed Hawkins |
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Re: Waybills
Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Tim O'Connor wrote:
Your waybill analysis pays real dividends because it informs your modeling. But for the life of me I can't see the utility of knowing that company ABC in East Podunk bought fresh carrots and company XYZ in West Podunk only bought oranges -- unless of course, I am modeling the Podunk Terminal Rwy.Ah, the key word you use is "utility," and as with so many things, utility in this subject is in the eye of the beholder. Or, if you like, I could say that the origin and destination info on waybills isn't there because it's USEFUL, it's there because it's INTERESTING. (And of course the prototype did it that way--after all, Tim, what's the "utility" of putting cut levers on box car models?) If we don't use a waybill which at least RESEMBLES the prototype, we approach the status of using "game cards" to run a layout. But again, that's my view and clearly not yours. This is certainly a hobby where "YMMV" has to be used frequently. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history |
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Re: conductor's reefer data
Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Tim O'Connor wrote:
Tony, it would be fascinating to know if you could correlate the number of ART cars (which really surprises me!) with known trafficTim, it sounds like you're assuming they were all confiscated as empties. I doubt many of them were in that category, same as the MDT and BAR and FGEX cars. When I interviewed Pete Holst, PFE's Assistant General Manager for Car Service (or if you will, Car Distribution) for many years, he explained that PFE had NEVER owned enough cars to quite cover peak harvest seasons, but instead had relied on agreements with other car lines to supply empties at critical times. I feel sure that the numerous reefers from far away which are in my statistics are there by agreement, not by confiscation, and likely arrived on the SP as empties so they could be loaded. After all, ART (or whoever) received mileage payments both directions, and would have been happy to keep the cars moving, unless of course they needed them for a particular harvest season of their own. In my modeling era 10 years later, the BAR had acquired a lot more reefers, and from photos we know that at some times of year (spring/ summer) a lot of BAR reefers were used for PFE loads out of northern California.Very true, and Pete Holst said the agreement with BAR reached back before WW II. Whether they were largely used in another region, or if the statistics I happen to have for Salinas are in some way unrepresentative, I don't know. I do have two BAR reefer models in my own fleet, so I certainly intend to duplicate that usage. I might add that I vividly recall Tim Gilbert once saying to a group of people at Cocoa Beach that he felt terribly frustrated by the microscopically narrow samples of freight cars provided by such sources as time books, and that he desperately wished he could find more data, much more data. Now I know how he felt. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history |
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Re: Waybills
Tony
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Might be the same raw data, for sure. I don't know, there's only so much time in the world for most of us. Railroads created paperwork because they were a business. Paperwork is not my hobby interest. I'm a minimalist myself -- a waybill only needs to say where the car is going as far as I'm concerned. :-) Your waybill analysis pays real dividends because it informs your modeling. But for the life of me I can't see the utility of knowing that company ABC in East Podunk bought fresh carrots and company XYZ in West Podunk only bought oranges -- unless of course, I am modeling the Podunk Terminal Rwy. Tim O'Connor -------------------------------------------------- You may want to look at this group -- they have compiledDon't know if it's the same database, but the OpSIG (operations) |
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Re: CG 7115 PS-1
John
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A 1960's Jim Sands photo of CG 7071 clearly shows the car had black ends. The roof is very peeled, but there are remnants of what could have been black car cement. The running board in the photo is so bright and unpainted galvanized metal that it might actually be a replacement. I know, real helpful huh? :-) I think CG had 9 orders of 40' PS-1's from 1952 to 1957, so maybe some of the paint specifications got mixed up? :-) I've seen no builder photos from 7000-7299. Tim O'Connor In researching Kadee's CG PS-1 #7115 (CG 7000-7299 blt 4/52) I ran across some conflicting information... |
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Re: Waybills
Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Tim O'Connor wrote:
You may want to look at this group -- they have compiled spreadsheets of real railroad freight shippers. Can you say "information overload"?Don't know if it's the same database, but the OpSIG (operations) group also has a huge listing of shippers on line, at opsig.org Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history |
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Re: Waybills
Jan
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You may want to look at this group -- they have compiled spreadsheets of real railroad freight shippers. Can you say "information overload"? :-) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ry-ops-industrialSIG/ Tim O' At 2/21/2011 07:32 PM Monday, you wrote:
Thanks Tim, that is what I am doing. I have copies of blank NKP waybills and also copies of some filled out waybills. I do have info on NKP industries from a 1944 shippers list. Just trying to get a better feel for who shipped what where. Jan |
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CG 7115 PS-1
John Hile
Hello All,
In researching Kadee's CG PS-1 #7115 (CG 7000-7299 blt 4/52) I ran across some conflicting information... First, the model (Kadee #5111) was produced with a silver roof and running board to represent an un-painted galvanized finish. see: http://www.kadee.com/ca/40ps1/40ps1b.htm The Central of Georgia Railway Historical Society web site says this car should have an oxide red roof. see: http://tinyurl.com/5uvk9ar Railway Prototype Cyclopedia #4, p 28 says the roof should be black - black car cement. Can anyone clarify for me what color the roof (and running board) should be for this car when it was new. -John Hile |
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Re: Waybills
foxtrackin50
Thanks Tim, that is what I am doing. I have copies of blank NKP waybills and also copies of some filled out waybills. I do have info on NKP industries from a 1944 shippers list. Just trying to get a better feel for who shipped what where. Jan
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--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:
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Re: conductor's reefer data
Tony, it would be fascinating to know if you could correlate the
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number of ART cars (which really surprises me!) with known traffic patterns for ART, like the annual peach crop from western Colorado or produce (watermelons and canteloupes) from south Texas. What I'm driving at is, wondering why so many ART reefers would show up in California? In my modeling era 10 years later, the BAR had acquired a lot more reefers, and from photos we know that at some times of year (spring/summer) a lot of BAR reefers were used for PFE loads out of northern California. Tim O'Connor I've recently finished transcribing a conductor's time book for |
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Re: Waybills
foxtrackin50
Thanks Steve, I did just join that group. I live near Frankfort and I am a friend of Don Daily who is a friend of Tony. Just trying to make my waybills as real as possible. I like the way car cards work, but do not like the way they look.
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--- In STMFC@..., "Steve Hoxie" <stevehprr@...> wrote:
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Re: Waybills
Jan
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If you model the NKP, you will want to find a prototype waybill (or scan) from the NKP for your time period. Then print blanks on your computer, or whatever. I'm sure Tony Koester knows where to find them! I've only operated on one model layout who uses miniature prototype waybills, Dan Holbrook's Duluth-Superior terminal. It adds some prototype flavor to operations. I can't help you, I only have SP and RI examples. Tim O'Connor I am wanting to model using real waybills or copies of real waybills of trains that are passing thru Frankfort,In on the Nickel Plate. I have some waybills but wondering where or how I would go about getting more. They would not need to be Industries on the NKP but just cars that would be routed on the NKP either on the Cloverleaf div. or the LE&W div. Is there a source for waybills. I am modeling mid fifties but any waybill from the forties thru the early sixies would work. Is there a web site or books about waybills. Thanks Jan |
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Re: No joy
rwitt_2000
Rich Townsend accidently wrote:
ended up in FGE, didn't they? It has no overall plans, but there are several detail drawings and cross-sections. Kenneth Chapin replied: Ken, I have a copy of that article describing the construction of the B&O class R-7 refrigerator cars. Getting a clean copy can be difficult especially when the journal volumes become very thick. As Rich stated there are only detail drawings and cross-sections of the ice bunkers. This article unfortunately did not include a general arrangement drawing. To answer Rich's question, yes the B&O sold some of their class R-7 to the FGE. Maybe this email exchange and accidental post should become a private one between Bill and Rich. Bob Witt |
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Re: No joy
kenneth chapin <kenneth_chapin@...>
Hi;
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I would like to see this on the B & O cars,thanks ken chapin --- On Mon, 2/21/11, richtownsend@... <richtownsend@...> wrote:
From: richtownsend@... <richtownsend@...> Subject: [STMFC] No joy To: STMFC@... Date: Monday, February 21, 2011, 11:11 AM Bill, I had no luck at the library with Railway Age. I searched the indexes for "refrigerator," "car, freight, refrigerator," "car, refrigerator," and "fruit growers" and found nothing referring to the experimental cars you are interested in. In fact, I didn't find a single mention of FGE from 1909 through the 1920's. I was at the University of Oregon library, and they don't have Railway Mechanical Engineer, but that might be a likely place for what you are looking for. Would you be interested in a 1917 RA article on B&O reefers? They ended up in FGE, didn't they? It has no overall plans, but there are several detail drawings and cross-sections. Richard Townsend Lincoln City, Oregon = [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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Re: Waybills
pennsylvania1954
Hi Jan--You might get some info here, but you might want to join
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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Proto-Layouts/ where Tony Koester hangs out. If anyone knows Frankfort, he does. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL --- In STMFC@..., "foxtrackin50" <foxtrackin50@...> wrote:
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Re: Blackstone tank car
Frederick Freitas <prrinvt@...>
GUYZ,
Give the Bitter Creek Shops a try; they have many of the older style trucks in cast metal form. I've used some with satisfactory results. Fred Freitas From: Jack Burgess <jack@...> To: STMFC@... Sent: Monday, February 21, 2011 11:03 AM Subject: RE: [STMFC] Blackstone tank car The frameless "Van Dyke" ones started out as standard gauge tank cars and were converted to narrow gauge. Richard Hendrickson did an article on them in the December 1996 RMC (using a Precision Scale kit). Getting correct trucks for them (if you model after the mid-1930s) is the difficulty...they need cast 5' wheelbase trucks to be correct. The article describes how to achieve this. A lot of them appeared on the YV and I followed Richard's article to model a half dozen of them a few years ago...they are a neat looking tank car! Jack Burgess www.yosemitevalleyrr.com < <I saw one of the Blackstone (Soundtraxx) HOn3 UTLX tanks in a hobby <shop. < <Would those cars have operated with standard gauge trucks? If so what <style for truck? < <At 60 bucks you really have to want one! < <Thanks, <Clark Propst [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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Re: Blackstone tank car, speaking of tanks
Jon Miller <atsf@...>
Speaking of tank cars is there any additional
information of the atsf Tk-G, H, etc. that was discussed some months ago? Jon Miller For me time stopped in 1941 Digitrax Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user NMRA Life member #2623 Member SFRH&MS |
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Re: No joy
Richard Townsend
Sorry. That was meant for Bill Welch.
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Richard Townsend Lincoln City, Oregon -----Original Message-----
From: richtownsend@... To: STMFC@... Sent: Mon, Feb 21, 2011 8:11 am Subject: [STMFC] No joy Bill, I had no luck at the library with Railway Age. I searched the indexes for "refrigerator," "car, freight, refrigerator," "car, refrigerator," and "fruit growers" and found nothing referring to the experimental cars you are interested in. In fact, I didn't find a single mention of FGE from 1909 through the 1920's. I was at the University of Oregon library, and they don't have Railway Mechanical Engineer, but that might be a likely place for what you are looking for. Would you be interested in a 1917 RA article on B&O reefers? They ended up in FGE, didn't they? It has no overall plans, but there are several detail drawings and cross-sections. Richard Townsend Lincoln City, Oregon = [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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Re: Blackstone tank car
Clark Propst
Thanks Barry,
I read a post where Richard states the cars were gone by 53 because of problems mounting AB brakes. I model 54. Guess that saves me $60 and fooling around with trucks! Clark Propst |
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No joy
Richard Townsend
Bill,
I had no luck at the library with Railway Age. I searched the indexes for "refrigerator," "car, freight, refrigerator," "car, refrigerator," and "fruit growers" and found nothing referring to the experimental cars you are interested in. In fact, I didn't find a single mention of FGE from 1909 through the 1920's. I was at the University of Oregon library, and they don't have Railway Mechanical Engineer, but that might be a likely place for what you are looking for. Would you be interested in a 1917 RA article on B&O reefers? They ended up in FGE, didn't they? It has no overall plans, but there are several detail drawings and cross-sections. Richard Townsend Lincoln City, Oregon = |
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