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Re: B&O Wagontop
Gene <bierglaeser@...>
Bob,
Thank you for all your information. Next step; place an order with my LHS. Gene Green |
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Re: B&O Wagontop
rwitt_2000
Gene Greenwrote:
B&O wagontop box car it appears that at least the first two paint schemes are legit and were in use before 1950. Sincere thanks to all who contributed to this conversation. possible but would likely have been rare. B&O Oricinal Scheme (Flat Door) with no capitol dome herald on leftside above reporting marks FVM 30301http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150097638299797&set=a.215654069\; 796.1323\07.92694309796&ref=nf Gene, All the proposed P&L schemes are essentially correct for the time periods indicated. The B&O 13 Great States (flat door) according to Chris Barkan's designations only last from mid-1945 to mid-1946 and was used about the time the B&O changed from using their "Freight Car Brown" to their "Bright Freight Car Red". The FVM indicates the color "Freight Car Brown". There is photographic evidence that cars lasted a longtime in this scheme without being repainted. I photographed a M-26d in this scheme in ~1962. Sometime after the first group, the Kuhler designed capitol dome emblem was added to the scheme by placing the emblem in the second panel from the end high on the side and removing the initials and the line above them. There is the classic builders photo in the MR article in 1962 of the M-53 in this scheme. So M-53 were painted in both these schemes as built. We don't know the exact date the Kuhler emblem was introduced. So this scheme was used for only a few months and we do not know how many cars were originally painted this way. The scheme for the express version class C-16 is also correct. For the that run passenger trains I assume the B&O express cars appeared on other railroads. The late B&O Billboard was introduced after the C&O took control and the they dropped the "Linking 13 Great States" from the emblem. This scheme is beyond the cutoff date for this group. FVM already has plans for a second run and one assumes the other schemes appropriate for the the era of the STMFC will be offered. FVM states there are about ten lettering variations available to choose from. Regards, Bob Witt |
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Re: unloading a tank car through the bottom valve
Via truck, pumped into above-ground horizontal storage tanks. I don't think Coriolis is always there. Everything on earth at higher latitudes is moving more slowly than at lower latitudes, relative to a fixed point in space. This differential rotation induces a clockwise movement in the northern hemisphere and counter-clockwise in the southern hemisphere. But it doesn't affect water in toilets, or above-ground horizontal oil storage tanks. But if you could build a 1,000 mile long frictionless turntable loaded with freight cars, then it would start rotating all by itself, unless the pivot point was exactly on the equator. Phew, just barely got back on topic! Tim O'Connor |
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Re: 1950s Flat Switching Film
Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
Bob--
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This is a very enjoyable period film to watch, just for the STMFC's and other info. But working in the running trades at CN, I don't understand some of the hand signals that the crew are using--they have different meanings (mostly explained in the film) on ATSF than those I know at CN. And the car that keeps being abused in this film--ATSF 32935 is a very interesting rebuild of an earlier boxcar when you look at the detail features like the added height to the end with an odd panel at the top--can anyone share info on this car? Because it just joined my "to build" list, after I finish a Westerfield Bx-12. Steve Lucas. --- In STMFC@..., "Bob C" <thecitrusbelt@...> wrote:
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Re: unloading a tank car through the bottom valve
Aley, Jeff A
No worries; I am enjoying re-reading Richard's article on double-sheathed USRA box cars!
Regards, -Jeff From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of soolinehistory Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 8:15 AM To: STMFC@... Subject: [STMFC] Re: unloading a tank car through the bottom valve Rats! I put the wrong link in my recent message, and compounded the problem by leaving out the year. The articles were in the March and May 1997 RMJ: http://www.trainlife.com/magazines/pages/367/26923/march-1997-page-9 http://www.trainlife.com/magazines/pages/369/27099/may-1997-page-25 http://www.trainlife.com/magazines/pages/369/27094/may-1997-page-20 Sorry, it was late. Dennis |
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Re: unloading a tank car through the bottom valve
soolinehistory <destorzek@...>
Rats! I put the wrong link in my recent message, and compounded the problem by leaving out the year. The articles were in the March and May 1997 RMJ:
http://www.trainlife.com/magazines/pages/367/26923/march-1997-page-9 http://www.trainlife.com/magazines/pages/369/27099/may-1997-page-25 http://www.trainlife.com/magazines/pages/369/27094/may-1997-page-20 Sorry, it was late. Dennis |
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Re: unloading a tank car through the bottom valve
pullmanboss <tcmadden@...>
I think Tom Madden's family was in the bulk oil biz too. But perhapsVia truck, pumped into above-ground horizontal storage tanks. I don't think Coriolus forces were involved. Tom Madden |
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Re: unloading a tank car through the bottom valve
soolinehistory <destorzek@...>
Rats! I put the wrong link in my recent message, and compounded the problem by leaving out the year. The articles were in the March and May 1997 RMJ:
http://www.trainlife.com/magazines/pages/367/26923/march-1997-page-9 http://www.trainlife.com/magazines/pages/369/27099/may-1997-page-25 http://www.trainlife.com/magazines/pages/369/27094/may-1997-page-20 Sorry, it was late. Dennis |
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Re: unloading a tank car through the bottom valve
Dennis
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I think Tom Madden's family was in the bulk oil biz too. But perhaps they got the stuff via pipeline. :-) Tim O' ---------------------------------- I think you're right, Tony, I can't seem to find any evidence of top unloading standpipes |
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Re: unloading a tank car through the bottom valve
soolinehistory <destorzek@...>
--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:
I think you're right, Tony, I can't seem to find any evidence of top unloading standpipes west of Albuquerque... Maybe California outlawed ladders over three steps high or sumtin' I did find a nice multi-part article on bulk oil distributors in the March and May issues of Rail Model Journal, available for viewing at: http://www.trainlife.com/magazines/pages/348/0/railmodel-journal-may-1998 In the articles the author describes the use of stand pipes for unloading cars through the dome, and presents drawings and photos of four different installations in Greely, CO. A companion article describes modeling the standpipes. I will note that most these installations also have plugged elbows on the ground, so apparently bottom unloading could also be done, and the article really doesn't give any rational for one over the other, but the presence of unloading standpipes at these facilities was widespread, at least as far east as Chicago. It's too bad Ken Corry isn't a member of this list; I believe his family has been in the bulk oil business for fifty or sixty years, and perhaps he could shed some light on the reason for choice of unloading method. Dennis |
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Precision Scale #15660 brass tank car
octoraro1948 <octoraro1@...>
Is the Precision Scale #15660 8,000 gallon tank car a model of an insulated car?
I noticed in a thread a couple of years ago that Precision Scale's were dismissed and omitted from the list of "best" brass tank car models. Lou Whiteley Lawrenceville, NJ |
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Re: B&O Wagontop
Gene <bierglaeser@...>
After reviewing all the pertinent discussion about the new Fox Valley B&O wagontop box car it appears that at least the first two paint schemes are legit and were in use before 1950. Sincere thanks to all who contributed to this conversation.
If I understand what has been posted the first scheme (below) is possible but would likely have been rare. B&O Oricinal Scheme (Flat Door) with no capitol dome herald on left side above reporting marks FVM 30301 FVM 30302 FVM 30303 This version would have been widespread once the B&O began using it. B&O 13 Great States (Flat Door) FVM 30304 FVM 30305 FVM 30306 Here's the link to Fox Valley's B&O wagontop box car on facebook: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150097638299797&set=a.215654069796.1323\;07.92694309796&ref=nf Gene Green |
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Re: unloading a tank car through the bottom valve
Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Ed Mines wrote:
How would this be done, particularly after a load like tar or ashphalt?Steam, hot water, solvents. In some cases workmen did have to go into the tank to make sure residues were gone Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history |
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Re: unloading a tank car through the bottom valve
ed_mines
--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:
Not at all. Tank cars could be and were cleaned for newHow would this be done, particularly after a load like tar or ashphalt? How would you scrub the sides of the tank? Or don't you think this is necessary? What about getting the last little bit of liquid (either the previous load or the cleaning solution) out? In one of the CBCs they show a revolving head which is inserted in the dome and squirts solvent throughout the car. Is there a guarantee that all of the previous load is gone? After a while the solvent gets expensive; disposal of a tank car of liquid (even water) is a problem too. A few years back someone wrote that they saw pictures of tank cars being cleaned out with steam. I think this would be done on cars used to transport crude oil and then common refined products like gasoline. Ed Mines |
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Re: NKP team era single deck stock car
foxtrackin50
I added a couple of photos of drawings for NKP single deck stocks cars. In my album for NKP single deck stock cars in the photo section.
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--- In STMFC@..., "EdwardM" <ed_mines@...> wrote:
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Re: Oil extraction
Jeff Coleman
I work in a full service tank car repair shop and I can tell you that most customers use the bottom outlet far more than not for off loading all products.
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I'm not sure if this was the case in the steam era or not but it is now. Jeff Coleman --- In STMFC@..., "soolinehistory" <destorzek@...> wrote:
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Re: unloading a tank car through the bottom valve
Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
I have a photo from the 1920's showing an Imperial Oil tank car being unloaded thorugh the bottom valve.
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But using these valves can sometime be attended with problems. I was told (at a "TransCaer Safety Train" seminar on their demonstration tank car CCPX 911) of objects like pens falling into a tank after the bottom outlet cap (chained to the bottom outlet) was replaced on the outlet. Now, the bottom valve does not close fully, as that pen is stuck in it... On arrival at the consignee, their employee places a five-gallon bucket under the outlet to catch the half-gallon or so of product that will be trapped in the cap. He unscrews the cap, to find the valve partly open, allowing the contents of the car to drain into the bucket. Uh-oh! Now imagine trying to hook up the discharge hose to the outlet with product issuing from it. And what's in the car that may block and/or damage that hose? Flammable product spilt on the ground, a mess to clean up, and no way to stop the flow other than to replace the cap with product still flowing out of the car. Lost product = money. The mess will be expensive to clean up, too. Which to me expalins why many consignees preferred to unload tank cars by suction/eduction pipes rather than through that bottom outlet valve. Steve Lucas. --- In STMFC@..., "traininsp" <Bbear746@...> wrote:
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Re: unloading a tank car through the bottom valve
Coriolis Effect: The tendency of email threads to travel in endless circles
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However did we get along until Tony invoked this Great Mystery some years ago? |
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Re: unloading a tank car through the bottom valve
Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Al Brown wrote:
That's why right-side wheels turn clockwise and left-side counterclockwise, yes?Originally it was part of an explanation of the SP's "Tunnel Motors." I explained that due to the Coriolis force, there was a tendency for tunnels in the northern hemisphere to rotate along their long axes clockwise (naturally opposite in the southern hemisphere), tending to close them up, and that SP had applied small motors to the walls of its tunnels to exert an opposite torque and keep the tunnels open. Thus the name "Tunnel Motor." In the southern hemisphere, the voltage to the motor is simply reversed. Hopefully the Coriolis force, which is truly quite small, was overwhelmed in this case by the force of tongue against cheek. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history |
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Re: unloading a tank car through the bottom valve
al_brown03
That's why right-side wheels turn clockwise and left-side counterclockwise, yes?
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Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla. --- In STMFC@..., dennyanspach <danspach@...> wrote:
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