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Re: Weathering Chalk

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Larry King wrote:
Tony, I have in service pictures of NYC stock cars showing considerable white residue on their sides,also CN and CP stock cars were painted white on the lower part of their sides presumably to hide these stains.I seem to recall reading somewhere that lime was applied as a cleaning method in cold weather.
I didn't mean to say there are no photos of white stains, only that it's not typical. I too have heard that CN and CP story, but don't know that it's true, nor was it done by US railroads. Lime kills fly eggs and maggots. It doesn't clean up bedding (straw; sand for hogs) stained with excreta. As I said, shippers could and would reject any car not clean for THEIR stock to go to market. Sprinkling some lime on dirty bedding would most certainly not meet that standard.
Someone on the list may be more of an expert on stock handling than me (wouldn't be hard), and if so, I'd welcome clarification or expansion of this topic.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history
Re: Train Schedules and the USRA

al_brown03
 

Erie's symbol freights also officially ran extra. For the network of freights, see Crist, "Erie Memories", p 7. Employee timetables for the Mahoning Division (1944), Allegany-Meadville Division (1956), and New York Division (1957) all show nothing but passenger trains, i.e. the freights ran extra.

On the other hand, at least some SAL through freights (at least some of them) *did* carry timetable authority. See Griffin, "All Lines North of Raleigh", pp 26-27, 64-65, 96. UP employee timetables for 1948 (UPHS reprint) also show freights.

All three roads just cited carried lots of perishables in STMFCs, and Erie was famous for its perishable service. Among many citations, see Crist, p 42; and Thompson et al., "PFE", 1st ed., pp 378-380. I tend to think reliability of service had more to do with *regularity* of service, than with the presence or absence of timetable authority. An "arranged schedule" could work A-O-K if adhered to.

The ad Bill cites suggests that in 1928 the PRR had recently installed an arranged schedule; if they hadn't had one before, I'd have to wonder about their service without it. And given the PRR's size, yeah, I'd suspect that may have contributed to the chaos the USRA was formed to unravel.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

--- In STMFC@..., Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:

Bill,

It may have, at least indirectly. More importantly it addressed
shipper expectations. However, it is important to note that while
there was an "arranged freight schedule" on the PRR, this carried no
time table authority and all freights ran as extras. The freight
schedule was more like "guidelines"...

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

On Mar 30, 2010, at 2:33 PM, Bill Welch wrote:

I recently acquired through eBay a Pennsylvania Railroad ad from the
October 20, 1928 "Literary Digest" entitled "A New Era in
Agriculture." It heralds the increase of the output of fresh fruits
and vegetables and the PRR's role in transporting this increased
production. One paragraph reads: "A few years ago, scarcely 10% of
freight trains were on regular schedules. Today the Pennsylvania
Railroad's 2900 freight trains are operated on regular schedules as
dependable as those of passenger limiteds."

My question is assuming the statement is true that "A few years ago,
scarcely 10% of freight trains were on regular schedules," was this
lack of regular schedules the cause (or a factor at least) of the
RR's inability to get the job done moving freight in WWI resulting in
the creation of the USRA?

Bill Welch
Re: Weathering Chalk

lrkdbn
 

--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:
, but after EVERY trip stock cars were steam cleaned. They
did NOT build up lime deposits, and indeed shippers could refuse cars
which were not clean. I think modelers typically overdo stock car
weathering (though I have no idea if Lester falls into this category).

Tony, I have in service pictures of NYC stock cars showing considerable white residue on their sides,also CN and CP stock cars were painted white on the lower part of their sides presumably to hide these stains.I seem to recall reading somewhere that lime was applied
as a cleaning method in cold weather.
Larry King
<lrkdbn@...>
Re: Train Schedules and the USRA

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Bill Welch wrote:
I recently acquired through eBay a Pennsylvania Railroad ad from the October 20, 1928 "Literary Digest" . . . One paragraph reads: "Today the Pennsylvania Railroad's 2900 freight trains are operated on regular schedules as
dependable as those of passenger limiteds."
Sobering if true for the passenger business, given PRR's record, then and later, on freight service. The PFE people I interviewed stated that PRR's enormous damage claims for perishables were a condition that had been true for decades.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history
Re: Styron

Gary Roe
 

Larry & Jim,

Thanks for your humorous and informative replies! Seems I gave up my search
for the truth too soon. Sorry.

gary roe
quincy, illinois


_____

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
laramielarry
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 10:07 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Styron






--- In STMFC@yahoogroups. <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> com, "gary roe"
<wabashrr@...> wrote:

I started looking at these records this AM and already have a question.
The very first train has 2 car loads of "styron". A check of the internet
tells me he is "a writer born in 1925"; but for some reason, I doubt that's
what's in these cars. A check of the rest of the records in the Excel file
brought up no more loads of this type. Could someone tell me what "styron"
is?

gary roe
quincy, illinois
When I first read this, I thought perhaps I had gotten the spelling wrong in
the Excel spreadsheet, available at the Laramie Railroad Depot's website,
www.laramiedepot.org

So I checked the scanned image of the page (Traud 1b) and began transcribing
carefully: That first letter certainly appears to be an "S", and the second
one is undoubtedly a "t", and then "y", "r", "o", "n" - hmmm, that seems to
spell... "Styron".

I Googled "Styron" and sure enough, the author of "Sophie's Choice", born in
1925, popped up as the first entry. To ascertain whether he was the content
of the car, I next checked the car's gross tonnage (49) and deducted the
tare (23). This gave 26 tons, or 52,000 lbs. Seems awfully heavy for someone
who would have been 26 years old in 1951.

I next examined Google's second entry: "Dow to Sell Styron Unit for $1.63
Billion". This seemed more promising. A little further checking showed that
Dow introduced its Styron line of polystyrene resins in 1937. My best guess
is therefore that NW boxcar 50064, westbound and headed to "La", was
carrying a load of plastics from Dow's Styron unit on October 26, 1951.
Polystyrene, a widely used plastic, is used in the manufacture of plastic
models, among other things.

If "Styron" poses a problem, I wonder how people will cope when they
encounter "Wuce" (train 18, first car listed)?

Best wishes,
Larry Ostresh
Laramie, Wyoming
Re: Train Schedules and the USRA

Bruce Smith
 

Bill,

It may have, at least indirectly. More importantly it addressed shipper expectations. However, it is important to note that while there was an "arranged freight schedule" on the PRR, this carried no time table authority and all freights ran as extras. The freight schedule was more like "guidelines"...

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

On Mar 30, 2010, at 2:33 PM, Bill Welch wrote:

I recently acquired through eBay a Pennsylvania Railroad ad from the
October 20, 1928 "Literary Digest" entitled "A New Era in
Agriculture." It heralds the increase of the output of fresh fruits
and vegetables and the PRR's role in transporting this increased
production. One paragraph reads: "A few years ago, scarcely 10% of
freight trains were on regular schedules. Today the Pennsylvania
Railroad's 2900 freight trains are operated on regular schedules as
dependable as those of passenger limiteds."

My question is assuming the statement is true that "A few years ago,
scarcely 10% of freight trains were on regular schedules," was this
lack of regular schedules the cause (or a factor at least) of the
RR's inability to get the job done moving freight in WWI resulting in
the creation of the USRA?

Bill Welch
Train Schedules and the USRA

Bill Welch
 

I recently acquired through eBay a Pennsylvania Railroad ad from the October 20, 1928 "Literary Digest" entitled "A New Era in Agriculture." It heralds the increase of the output of fresh fruits and vegetables and the PRR's role in transporting this increased production. One paragraph reads: "A few years ago, scarcely 10% of freight trains were on regular schedules. Today the Pennsylvania Railroad's 2900 freight trains are operated on regular schedules as dependable as those of passenger limiteds."

My question is assuming the statement is true that "A few years ago, scarcely 10% of freight trains were on regular schedules," was this lack of regular schedules the cause (or a factor at least) of the RR's inability to get the job done moving freight in WWI resulting in the creation of the USRA?

Bill Welch
Re: Weathering Chalk

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Lester Breuer wrote:
Tony, When I said lime residue I did not know what other term to use to describe the white color that may show on stock cars, usually on the lower third that was due ( I have read ) to the cleaning with lime. Westerfield in his Milw stock car plan sheet states you might want to spray the interior of the stock car white to represent the cleaning with lime. Therefore, on some of my stock cars I have used the white eye-shadow to put a light color of white near the floor area to represent this coloring which I called residue.
Steam cleaning naturally faded the paint, and many photos of the outside of stock cars show faded paint. The inside, if painted, would be the same. Whether there is any white staining, I don't know. But in any case, the lime isn't really a cleaning process, though it could be called a disinfecting process.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history
Re: Styron

Chris Sawicki
 

Larry- Dow's tradename for polystyrene resin is Styron

Chris Sawicki



________________________________
From: laramielarry <larryostresh@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tue, March 30, 2010 10:06:42 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Styron

 


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups. com, "gary roe" <wabashrr@.. .> wrote:

I started looking at these records this AM and already have a question. The very first train has 2 car loads of "styron". A check of the internet tells me he is "a writer born in 1925"; but for some reason, I doubt that's what's in these cars. A check of the rest of the records in the Excel file brought up no more loads of this type. Could someone tell me what "styron" is?

gary roe
quincy, illinois
When I first read this, I thought perhaps I had gotten the spelling wrong in the Excel spreadsheet, available at the Laramie Railroad Depot's website,
www.laramiedepot. org

So I checked the scanned image of the page (Traud 1b) and began transcribing carefully: That first letter certainly appears to be an "S", and the second one is undoubtedly a "t", and then "y", "r", "o", "n" – hmmm, that seems to spell... "Styron".

I Googled "Styron" and sure enough, the author of "Sophie's Choice", born in 1925, popped up as the first entry. To ascertain whether he was the content of the car, I next checked the car's gross tonnage (49) and deducted the tare (23). This gave 26 tons, or 52,000 lbs. Seems awfully heavy for someone who would have been 26 years old in 1951.

I next examined Google's second entry: "Dow to Sell Styron Unit for $1.63 Billion". This seemed more promising. A little further checking showed that Dow introduced its Styron line of polystyrene resins in 1937. My best guess is therefore that NW boxcar 50064, westbound and headed to "La", was carrying a load of plastics from Dow's Styron unit on October 26, 1951. Polystyrene, a widely used plastic, is used in the manufacture of plastic models, among other things.

If "Styron" poses a problem, I wonder how people will cope when they encounter "Wuce" (train 18, first car listed)?

Best wishes,
Larry Ostresh
Laramie, Wyoming




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
C&WC Boxcars on Shorpy

Riley K <riley050748@...>
 

There is also a blurred shot of some elderly Charleston and Western Carolina boxcars in a photo taken in Augusta, GA. You can search for Augusta on Shorpy and it should come up.

Riley Kinney

--- In STMFC@..., joel norman <mec-bml@...> wrote:



--- On Sun, 3/28/10, hbutlerlists <hbutlerlists@...> wrote:


From: hbutlerlists <hbutlerlists@...>
Subject: [BRPRy] BR & P boxcar #3656
To: BRPRy@...
Date: Sunday, March 28, 2010, 1:09 PM


 



There is an good view of one side and the roof of boxcar #3656 in
Washington, D.C., in 1917 posted on Shorpy:

http://www.shorpy. com/node/ 7941?size= _original
<http://www.shorpy. com/node/ 7941?size= _original>

Not all the lettering is legible, but it is a nice in-service shot.

Harry Butler
Styron

Wendye Ware
 

--- In STMFC@..., "gary roe" <wabashrr@...> wrote:

I started looking at these records this AM and already have a question. The very first train has 2 car loads of "styron". A check of the internet tells me he is "a writer born in 1925"; but for some reason, I doubt that's what's in these cars. A check of the rest of the records in the Excel file brought up no more loads of this type. Could someone tell me what "styron" is?

gary roe
quincy, illinois
When I first read this, I thought perhaps I had gotten the spelling wrong in the Excel spreadsheet, available at the Laramie Railroad Depot's website,
www.laramiedepot.org

So I checked the scanned image of the page (Traud 1b) and began transcribing carefully: That first letter certainly appears to be an "S", and the second one is undoubtedly a "t", and then "y", "r", "o", "n" – hmmm, that seems to spell... "Styron".

I Googled "Styron" and sure enough, the author of "Sophie's Choice", born in 1925, popped up as the first entry. To ascertain whether he was the content of the car, I next checked the car's gross tonnage (49) and deducted the tare (23). This gave 26 tons, or 52,000 lbs. Seems awfully heavy for someone who would have been 26 years old in 1951.

I next examined Google's second entry: "Dow to Sell Styron Unit for $1.63 Billion". This seemed more promising. A little further checking showed that Dow introduced its Styron line of polystyrene resins in 1937. My best guess is therefore that NW boxcar 50064, westbound and headed to "La", was carrying a load of plastics from Dow's Styron unit on October 26, 1951. Polystyrene, a widely used plastic, is used in the manufacture of plastic models, among other things.

If "Styron" poses a problem, I wonder how people will cope when they encounter "Wuce" (train 18, first car listed)?

Best wishes,
Larry Ostresh
Laramie, Wyoming
Re: Weathering Chalk

frograbbit602
 

Tony, When I said lime residue I did not know what other term to use to describe the white color that may show on stock cars, usually on the lower third that was due ( I have read ) to the cleaning with lime. Westerfield in his Milw stock car plan sheet states you might want to spray the interior of the stock car white to represent the cleaning with lime. Therefore, on some of my stock cars I have used the white eye-shadow to put a light color of white near the floor area to represent this coloring which I called residue.

Lester Breuer

--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

Lester Breuer wrote:
In addition to earth tones other colors can be used. For example,
white can be used for lime residue from cleaning stock cars.
Lime was sometimes used in transit to control maggots in the
car bedding, but after EVERY trip stock cars were steam cleaned. They
did NOT build up lime deposits, and indeed shippers could refuse cars
which were not clean. I think modelers typically overdo stock car
weathering (though I have no idea if Lester falls into this category).

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history
Fw: West Chemical Products cars Photos Needed

joel norman <mec-bml@...>
 

--- On Tue, 3/30/10, Steven Lynch <slynch@...> wrote:


From: Steven Lynch <slynch@...>
Subject: West Chemical Products cars Photos Needed
To: "Steven Lynch" <slynch@...>
Date: Tuesday, March 30, 2010, 2:23 AM



Hi Folks, Finally located two great shots of the West Chemical Products cars. The first was the four dome and the second was the three dome car. The shots show most all of the markings pretty clearly. Both photos were taken by Frank Szcahacz and are in the soft cover book "Classic Freight Cars, Vol 2, A rolling pipeline of colorful tank cars" by John Henderson 
 
Does anyone have access to this book and can scan these two shots for the decal project? Thank you! Please advise.
 
Best regards,

Steve

LIRR History Website
Main LIRR and Related Rail Sites Portal
Re: Weathering Chalk

Tim O'Connor
 

Al

No, it is glued in place. A "live load" might be a problem.

Tim O'

At 3/29/2010 07:25 PM Monday, you wrote:
A question for those who weather with real rust: do you have any trouble with it getting into motors?

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.
Weathering roofs

bea9bea7 <estcbq@...>
 

weathering roofs--few photo of such--any good photo references--and personal suggestions as to your work---thanks in advance--jim young
Re: Weathering Chalk

al_brown03
 

A question for those who weather with real rust: do you have any trouble with it getting into motors?

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


I love these powders, and just plain old pigments (very cheap) from
MicroMark. At Naperville a dealer was selling AIM powders which I think
are exactly the same as Bragdon powders. I got some new ones, like gray
and white. http://www.aimprodx.com/index.php?page=powders

I have a plastic low side shoe box into which I've poured small piles
of about a dozen colors. When I'm weathering a model with rust or india
ink washes, I'll reach into the box with my damp brush and pick up some
pigment, and this gets added to the wash. I love doing the rusty, filthy
interiors of hoppers and gondolas this way. Every one comes out unique.

Another item is real rust powder, collected from a scrap yard. A spray
of Dullcote from an aerosol can into the interior of a gondola, and then
sprinkle the powder. Real rust has many color variations and different
sizes so the effect is very realistic. With the bigger rust chunks I
can make removable loads.

Tim O'Connor





http://www.bragdonent.com
Chuck Hladik

I'll second Chuck's recommendation. I've had very good results using
Bragdon chalks and airbrushing clear flat finish over them. It seems
pointless to experiment with drug store cosmetics when Bragdon's
products are intended for the purpose, readily available from most
well-stocked dealers (if not from yours, try Des Plaines, Caboose,
Train Station etc. on the net) and IMHO reasonably priced.
Richard Hendrickson
Re: Weathering Chalk

Tim O'Connor
 

I love these powders, and just plain old pigments (very cheap) from
MicroMark. At Naperville a dealer was selling AIM powders which I think
are exactly the same as Bragdon powders. I got some new ones, like gray
and white. http://www.aimprodx.com/index.php?page=powders

I have a plastic low side shoe box into which I've poured small piles
of about a dozen colors. When I'm weathering a model with rust or india
ink washes, I'll reach into the box with my damp brush and pick up some
pigment, and this gets added to the wash. I love doing the rusty, filthy
interiors of hoppers and gondolas this way. Every one comes out unique.

Another item is real rust powder, collected from a scrap yard. A spray
of Dullcote from an aerosol can into the interior of a gondola, and then
sprinkle the powder. Real rust has many color variations and different
sizes so the effect is very realistic. With the bigger rust chunks I
can make removable loads.

Tim O'Connor

http://www.bragdonent.com
Chuck Hladik

I'll second Chuck's recommendation. I've had very good results using
Bragdon chalks and airbrushing clear flat finish over them. It seems
pointless to experiment with drug store cosmetics when Bragdon's
products are intended for the purpose, readily available from most
well-stocked dealers (if not from yours, try Des Plaines, Caboose,
Train Station etc. on the net) and IMHO reasonably priced.
Richard Hendrickson
Re: Weathering Chalk

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Mar 29, 2010, at 7:52 AM, RUTLANDRS@... wrote:

Chris,
Myself and many others are having great success with Bragdon
weathering powders. I believe that the rust colors (3) are
actually powdered rust,
anyway they all adhere nicely and there is a good array of colors.
See
_www.bragdonent.com_ (http://www.bragdonent.com)
Chuck Hladik
I'll second Chuck's recommendation. I've had very good results using
Bragdon chalks and airbrushing clear flat finish over them. It seems
pointless to experiment with drug store cosmetics when Bragdon's
products are intended for the purpose, readily available from most
well-stocked dealers (if not from yours, try Des Plaines, Caboose,
Train Station etc. on the net) and IMHO reasonably priced.

Richard Hendrickson
Re: Weathering Chalk

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Lester Breuer wrote:
In addition to earth tones other colors can be used. For example, white can be used for lime residue from cleaning stock cars.
Lime was sometimes used in transit to control maggots in the car bedding, but after EVERY trip stock cars were steam cleaned. They did NOT build up lime deposits, and indeed shippers could refuse cars which were not clean. I think modelers typically overdo stock car weathering (though I have no idea if Lester falls into this category).

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history
Re: Weathering Chalk

Paul Hillman
 

Jim,

The idea of using white glue as a binder with dry chalk is a good approach to try. It seems that the "hazing" effect of the colored liquid would flow randomly quite well. The idea of having some kind of binder for the chalk-powder is what's needed for final over-spraying.

Bragdon Co. weathering dust has some kind of "dry-binder" added to it, they say.

I think also, the ladies makeup thing is worth a try.

Thanks, Paul Hillman

----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Betz<mailto:jimbetz@...>
To: STMFC@...<mailto:STMFC@...>
Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 12:10 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Weathering Chalk



Hi,


I use a "wet chalk slurry" now. Almost always. I take some
chalk and scrape it to a powder into a small plastic container
(I prefer to use a model RR wheelset package cover). Then I
add water and a few drops of white glue (I use Krystal Klear
for this) and the smallest amount of kitchen detergent I can
put on the end of a toothpick (as a wetting agent). I mix
different colors of chalk (mostly "earth tones") until I get
the 'shade' I want (today). The white glue acts as a binder -
I use/prefer KK simply because it mixes in with the water so
much easier.


Jim Betz
104421 - 104440 of 193640