Date   

Re: reweigh data

Richard Hendrickson
 

On May 31, 2010, at 12:28 PM, Bruce Smith wrote:

IIRC, Greg Martin commented on this a few years back. His extensive
photo survey showed about 20% off-line repacks and around 10% off-line
reweighs.
Though I haven't done a statistically rigorous sample, I have about
the same impression from my own freight car photo collection (which
is considerably larger than Greg's). Bear in mind that any car which
got significant maintenance or repairs off line had to be reweighed
and restenciled before it was released from the foreign road's shops
if its light weight might have been affected (e.g., replacement of a
coupler or a wheel set). So it wasn't just a matter of the weight
data being out of date, though that often happened off-line as well.
Even if the weight hadn't changed from what was stenciled on it, the
shop symbol and date were repainted.

With regard to faded reweigh stenciling, the photos in my collection
show many examples of that as well. Restenciling was done with fast
drying paint which often wasn't as durable, and didn't weather as
well, as the paint and lettering applied by the car builder or by the
owner's shops when a car was repainted. Often there was a noticeable
contrast between the durable, though somewhat dirty, original "CAPY,
LD LMT, LT WT" stenciling and the numbers, shop symbol, and date
which had been added later but, after a couple of years on the road,
were more faded and heavily weathered than the original stenciling.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Weathered reweigh dates, was: Re: Re: IC 40' box car decal

Bruce Smith
 

I said:
Oil was also sprayed on the rails to reduce corrosion from the salt
brine dripping from passing ice reefers. Oil spray cars vanished at
the
same time as ice reefers on many railroads.

Bob Witt replied:
I don't believe I have ever seen an "oil spray car".
Weed sprayers, but not oil sprayers; does any one have a photo to
share?

Bob,

PRR #497700, page 422, Pennsy Power 3. The caption notes that the PRR
"was one of the few railroads that did it [spay oil] mechanically."

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Weathered reweigh dates, was: Re: Re: IC 40' box car decal

rwitt_2000
 

Bruce Smith wrote:

Dennis, folks,

Oil was also sprayed on the rails to reduce corrosion from the salt
brine dripping from passing ice reefers. Oil spray cars vanished at
the
same time as ice reefers on many railroads.
Bruce,

I don't believe I have ever seen an "oil spray car".

Weed sprayers, but not oil sprayers; does any one have a photo to share?

Regards,

Bob Witt


Re: reweigh data

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Bruce Smith wrote:
IIRC, Greg Martin commented on this a few years back. His extensive photo survey showed about 20% off-line repacks and around 10% off- line reweighs.
Thanks, Bruce. That is consistent with my general impression, so I'll continue to do only an occasional off-line reweigh symbol <g>. I use a lotta Pennsy symbols for those!

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: reweigh data

soolinehistory <destorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:
This is an interesting point, Dennis. I've routinely looked at
freight car photos with this subject in mind (among lots of others of
course), and I have the IMPRESSION that the considerable majority of
reweigh symbols ARE on the home roads of cars. Has anyone done this
more systematically, or actually acquired statistics on the point? My
own decaling practice is to use almost all home road reweighs, but
I'll certainly change if there is specific evidence to the contrary.
Tony,

I can't disagree that most cars were re-weighed on their home road, and I don't know that anyone has ever made a study of it. However... The topic of re-weighing cars came up on the Canadian Pacific Historical Association list at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cpsig/ a while back, and one of the members who was a long time CPR employee recalled the car foreman at one of CP's minor terminals on the old Kettle Valley line in British Columbia instructing his car inspectors to specifically look of out-of-date foreign cars, pull them, and re-weigh them. It seems he felt the AAR standard fee for doing so would count as income to offset some of the expense his little outpost represented to the bean counters in Montreal. :-)

I can't believe that something similar wasn't done elsewhere, back in the day.

Dennis


Re: Weathered reweigh dates, was: Re: Re: IC 40' box car decal

Bruce Smith
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Mike Brock" <brockm@...> wrote:
...Ross Grenard, told me that UP poured oil on the
ballast to keep the dirt/sand from blowing. Now, at first glance, one
has to
wonder...wouldn't that be a fire hazard? ...
Dennis replied:
Oil was routinely sprayed on track during the steam era to kill
vegetation, which in itself was a greater fire hazard than the small
amount of oil.

Dennis, folks,

Oil was also sprayed on the rails to reduce corrosion from the salt
brine dripping from passing ice reefers. Oil spray cars vanished at the
same time as ice reefers on many railroads.

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn AL.


Re: reweigh data

Bruce Smith
 

Dennis Storzek wrote:
I might also point out that there is no reason why a car should get
it's periodic re-weigh on the home road; many did, but many did not.
Tony replied:
This is an interesting point, Dennis. I've routinely looked at
freight car photos with this subject in mind (among lots of others of
course), and I have the IMPRESSION that the considerable majority of
reweigh symbols ARE on the home roads of cars. Has anyone done this
more systematically, or actually acquired statistics on the point? My
own decaling practice is to use almost all home road reweighs, but
I'll certainly change if there is specific evidence to the contrary.

Tony,

IIRC, Greg Martin commented on this a few years back. His extensive
photo survey showed about 20% off-line repacks and around 10% off-line
reweighs.

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Re: reweigh data

Gene <bierglaeser@...>
 

Most extant M&StL car cards show reweighs by giving weight, month and year and railroad but not shop location or symbol. Darn! Almost useful information. My memory of the cards is that most, if not all, had at least one reweigh on another road.

Gene Green

--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

Dennis Storzek wrote:
I might also point out that there is no reason why a car should get
it's periodic re-weigh on the home road; many did, but many did not.
This is an interesting point, Dennis. I've routinely looked at
freight car photos with this subject in mind (among lots of others of
course), and I have the IMPRESSION that the considerable majority of
reweigh symbols ARE on the home roads of cars. Has anyone done this
more systematically, or actually acquired statistics on the point? My
own decaling practice is to use almost all home road reweighs, but
I'll certainly change if there is specific evidence to the contrary.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: reweigh data

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Dennis Storzek wrote:
I might also point out that there is no reason why a car should get it's periodic re-weigh on the home road; many did, but many did not.
This is an interesting point, Dennis. I've routinely looked at freight car photos with this subject in mind (among lots of others of course), and I have the IMPRESSION that the considerable majority of reweigh symbols ARE on the home roads of cars. Has anyone done this more systematically, or actually acquired statistics on the point? My own decaling practice is to use almost all home road reweighs, but I'll certainly change if there is specific evidence to the contrary.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Weathered reweigh dates, was: Re: Re: IC 40' box car decal

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Dennis Storzek writes:

"Oil was routinely sprayed on track during the steam era to kill vegetation, which in itself was a greater fire hazard than the small amount of oil."

Perhaps so. And, I have personally observed 3985 setting fires near SLC and photos exist of similar fires in Wyoming during steam days. However, such fires were more of an annoyance than anything...given the lack of significant vegatation. Moreover, the only location on the UP in the '50's that I have found black colored ballast is on Sherman Hill. See the video Steam Over Sherman. The ballast used by UP came from ballast mines near Granite and Buford and it was a reddish brown color...not unlike the general appearance of the landcape. Vegetation did, obviously, grow in the region but not to the extent that one might find in other areas. I might add that UP was very sensitive to passenger satisfaction during the period. For a very short period of time UP placed helpers on the rear of streamliners west of Cheyenne. Passengers apparently complained so UP moved them up to front again.

Mike Brock


Re: Merchants Despatch Reefer construction

soolinehistory <destorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., Roger Hinman <rhinman@...> wrote:

The bow almost seems exaggerated in that photo; there's another builder's photo of a car from the same series on the Wikipedia article for MDT which I believe is also from the Detroit Publishing collection...
It appears that the focal length of the lens was what could be considered a mild telephoto; all the cars are foreshortened and that accentuates the bow.

What is more interesting to me is the color separation on the needle beams, they appear to be hand painted without the aid of any masking. They also end at different places; on the nearest beam the white ends just above the inner bolt on the queenpost casting, while on the next beam it extends several inches further. I guess this is what you do when the customer wants the needle beams white but not the whole underframe.

Dennis


Weathered reweigh dates, was: Re: Re: IC 40' box car decal

soolinehistory <destorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Mike Brock" <brockm@...> wrote:
...Ross Grenard, told me that UP poured oil on the
ballast to keep the dirt/sand from blowing. Now, at first glance, one has to
wonder...wouldn't that be a fire hazard? ...
Oil was routinely sprayed on track during the steam era to kill vegetation, which in itself was a greater fire hazard than the small amount of oil.

Dennis


Re: reweigh data (was IC 40' box car decal)

soolinehistory <destorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


If you say so Richard, then I believe you. But since the dates
and symbols come in separate packages, and the symbols are simply
a jumble with no identification about which railroad uses which
(except for the PRR's distinctive style) I didn't really trust
them. Sunshine groups railroad specific stations + dates on the
same sheet. Looking at Champ's "Southern" railroads I couldn't find
any symbol for Inman Yard for example on the Southern, or others
that I could recognize. But I do appreciate Champ offering data
jumbles for 1955 through 1965.

Tim
Tim,

It would seem that the simple solution would be to look the symbols up here:

http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/4MADTIk7q095sgJXk-_w5jVM0AO78-aQ-TnnAkz_qAWJux1ZTuhlkrc70aMbXrbFZvaHzMqOKsL9l42l3Vk9Hd0tdFNrlLY0U-gWQw/Station%20%26%20Reweigh%20Symbols.xls

I might also point out that there is no reason why a car should get it's periodic re-weigh on the home road; many did, but many did not.

Dennis


Weathered reweigh dates, was: Re: Re: IC 40' box car decal

robert.allan32 <baallan@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Mike Brock" <brockm@...> wrote:

Brian Carlson notes:


Mike: You need to get one of those History channel or Discovery Channel
shows that investigate UFO's and other strange phenomena. Maybe you have
some strange energy vortex down there, it might also explain those N&W
hoppers.
The funny part of this is that it was true...although the dirt/sand covered
the entire bottom of the side...for awhile. I noticed in some steam era
videos that the ballast was very dark...almost black. Long time steam era
photographer and author, Ross Grenard, told me that UP poured oil on the
ballast to keep the dirt/sand from blowing. Now, at first glance, one has to
wonder...wouldn't that be a fire hazard? I mean, UP steam engines were
continually setting fires in the prairie grass beside the tracks. Of course,
that area did experience a great deal of wind blown sand erosion. I
experienced it on more than one occasion...extremely fine sand particles
blown by 40 mph winds entered and shut down my video camera on one trip.

Mike Brock
Friction bearings required lots of oil. I can remember early in my career barrels of journal oil being distributed across the yard, with car inspectors dispatched to insure each journal was filled before dispatch. I am sure this contributed to the appearance of track (and trucks) in that era.

In addition, track angle bars and bolts were lubricated regularly to insure the track structure could expand/contract with the temperature. Lubrication and a hammer were the 1st solution to most problems many car- and track-men encountered! Today, environmental standards prohibit many of these solutions.


Weathered reweigh dates, was: Re: Re: IC 40' box car decal

jerryglow2
 

That all being said, you'd think the repack data was the freshest painted item on the car....

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@..., "Mike Brock" <brockm@...> wrote:

Brian Carlson notes:


Mike: You need to get one of those History channel or Discovery Channel
shows that investigate UFO's and other strange phenomena. Maybe you have
some strange energy vortex down there, it might also explain those N&W
hoppers.
The funny part of this is that it was true...although the dirt/sand covered
the entire bottom of the side...for awhile. I noticed in some steam era
videos that the ballast was very dark...almost black. Long time steam era
photographer and author, Ross Grenard, told me that UP poured oil on the
ballast to keep the dirt/sand from blowing. Now, at first glance, one has to
wonder...wouldn't that be a fire hazard? I mean, UP steam engines were
continually setting fires in the prairie grass beside the tracks. Of course,
that area did experience a great deal of wind blown sand erosion. I
experienced it on more than one occasion...extremely fine sand particles
blown by 40 mph winds entered and shut down my video camera on one trip.

Mike Brock


Re: Weathered reweigh dates, was: Re: Re: IC 40' box car decal

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Brian Carlson notes:


Mike: You need to get one of those History channel or Discovery Channel
shows that investigate UFO's and other strange phenomena. Maybe you have
some strange energy vortex down there, it might also explain those N&W
hoppers.
The funny part of this is that it was true...although the dirt/sand covered the entire bottom of the side...for awhile. I noticed in some steam era videos that the ballast was very dark...almost black. Long time steam era photographer and author, Ross Grenard, told me that UP poured oil on the ballast to keep the dirt/sand from blowing. Now, at first glance, one has to wonder...wouldn't that be a fire hazard? I mean, UP steam engines were continually setting fires in the prairie grass beside the tracks. Of course, that area did experience a great deal of wind blown sand erosion. I experienced it on more than one occasion...extremely fine sand particles blown by 40 mph winds entered and shut down my video camera on one trip.

Mike Brock


Re: 40 ft gons

 

Tony, I couldn't agree more, like the friction bearing/Bettendorf issues.
 
Rich Christie

--- On Sun, 5/30/10, Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:


From: Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: 40 ft gons
To: STMFC@...
Date: Sunday, May 30, 2010, 5:37 PM


 



Rich Christie wrote:
Tony, Reversed, "flipped" is modelers jargon that I have seen in
gondola articles.
I wasn't in much doubt about which arrangement, but we already
have a word for this, "reverse," so I don't see the need for another--
and flipped could mean a couple of things. There are lots of
terminologies one can find in modeling articles, some of which should
never have seen the light of day.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: IC 40' box car decal

jerryglow2
 

Since I model ca approx 1953, I usually do shop dates accordingly. Since most of my decals are printed to orders, I can change a few things for extra fare. It's going to be a waste for repaints, but I'm adding some of the smaller data seen on the right side like paint and cement suppliers.

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@..., "John" <golden1014@...> wrote:

Hi Jerry,

Thanks for doing this--you're going to be the new Champ. The set looks really great. Would it be possible/practical to add a small variety of different shop dates as well? I model 1950 and really hate having to piece together earlier shop dates.

Thanks for considering!

John

John Golden
Bloomington, IN


--- In STMFC@..., jerryglow@ wrote:

Coming soon - nearly complete:
http://home.comcast.net/~jerryglow/samples/IC.jpg

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@..., "frtcar" <staffan.ehnbom@> wrote:

Where can I find lettering for an HO 40' IC box car like the 18629 in the photo on p. 22 of the RP Cyc 4? The Champ set no. HB-150 seems a bit oversized judging by the Champ Lettering Plan Book. Thanks in advance,

Staffan Ehnbom


Re: IC 40' box car decal

jerryglow2
 

Both comments are correct and I fixed the locations in my illustration. Of course, placement on the model is up to your info and photo you're following. BTW the "Flour Loading" stencil to the left of the door was applied to number series 18500-999. My errors were due to working from a photo of a later repainted car.

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@..., "ealabhan0" <ealabhan0@...> wrote:

Jerry,
From photos I have, all pre-"Main Line of Mid-America" cars, plus most Main Line slogan cars with lines above and below the reporting mark and car number, indeed do have the Illinois Central road name, IC reporting mark, car number, and weight data centered on the second panel from the end. However, I also have an M. D. McCarter photo of brand new IC 29110 built 10-46 in the IC's Centralia IL carshops before the Main Line slogan, but with the road name, reporting mark and car number with lines above and below, and weight data, all centered on the third/middle panel of the left side. I find it interesting that Centralia used this more-common positioning in 1946 on at least one series of newly constructed '44 AAR standard boxcars, though I also have a photo of IC 18629 repainted McC 3-55 with all left-side stenciling still in the second panel (and with the Main Line slogan).
All photos I have of cars repainted in the late '50s-on (past your modeling year, I know) have all left-side markings centered in the third/middle panel.
I'm just noting an interesting exception to the rule if one desires to model several different IC transition-era boxcars.
Dave Sieber, Reno NV

--- In STMFC@..., Ed Hawkins <hawk0621@> wrote:

On May 30, 2010, at 3:44 AM, jerryglow@ wrote:

Coming soon - nearly complete:
http://home.comcast.net/~jerryglow/samples/IC.jpg
Jerry,
I don't know if you've revised this or not since our correspondence earlier today, but the artwork in the link shows the data to the left of the door centered on the middle side panel. Photos and the IC stencil diagrams for these cars show the data was centered on the 2nd panel from the end.
Ed


Re: Weathered reweigh dates, was: Re: Re: IC 40' box car decal

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Mike Brock wrote:
I have noticed a rather strange phenomenon apparently associated with cars traveling over Sherman Hill and possibly other areas in southern Wyoming. The reweigh dates seem to get covered with dirt...sand...whatever. No idea why this would be so common in that area...
A perfect opportunity for an easy summer project, Mike. Overpaint those pesky dirty reweigh areas and fix 'em with Champ or Sunshine decals. Easy to do, looks great, AND it's actually correct! <running for cover>

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

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