Date   

Re: Color of IC Reefers

George Courtney
 

Thanks, guys,

Lucky me, I have a S scale orange kit that is MDT now that I've looked. And the year I model is 1958.

George Courtney

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


The only orange IC reefer photos that I've seen are of MDT
reefers from 1958 onwards. I don't know when the MDT-IC cars
began to be painted orange, but I think MDT began using orange
paint in the 1940's. Other MDT steel reefer users include GM&O,
DL&W, NYC (i.e. reefers with MDT reporting marks with emblems
of those railroads).

Tim O'Connor


George, Irv Athearn committed many sins against prototype modelers
for which, we may hope, has been forgiven now that he has gone to the
great freight yard in the sky, but this wasn't one of them. If the
Illinois Central ever painted their reefers orange, it was long after
the period covered by the STMFC list. The steel reefers delivered in
1937 and 1941-'42 were yellow-green-black when new (and the 1937 cars
at least, had aluminum painted roofs when delivered). Cars repainted
through the 1940s and '50s were essentially the same, though not with
aluminum roofs. There is photographic evidence of this P/L scheme
continuing well into the '60s, though IC did adopt a simpler P/L
scheme in the 1960s with everything on the sides (including hardware
and ladders) yellow and the rest of the car in black.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Lehigh Valley 41000 series hopper

Donald Ford <ford.donald77@...>
 

Tim
Yes they had dimples or depresions in the slope heets, and the comsosite cars
had upside down pans fastened the the composie slope sheets if I read Chuck Y's
drawings rite.  Both the photos in the RMC August 1997 article and I am guessing
that he used the same photos in his book on the Leheigh Valley, same numbers,
are of the side that would not have had the train air line using standard
pratice.  Rich Christe said that his info on the twin hoppers these cars were
rebuilt into had the outside train air line.  I also have a photo of one of
these cars its 3/4 end view but does shown the air line.  They cut the frame
when the cars were rebuilt and could have rerouted it at that time.  I am going
to go with train air line down the center sill.  Well my car will be run on a
modular layout so I will just keep the left side out and the air line cop
shouldn't be albe to see it.
Thanks
Don Ford
Kanab UT




________________________________
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sat, September 4, 2010 12:27:18 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Lehigh Valley 41000 series hopper

 

Didn't these cars require "dimples" on the underside to
clear the wheels/truck-swing? Maybe the train line was run
down the center line of the car to avoid interference?

Tim O'Connor

Yungkurth, "Steam Era of Lehigh Valley", p 58, shows the left sides
of LV 41254 (composite quad) and 41185 (steel-sided quad); the train
pipe isn't visible in either.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Lehigh Valley 41000 series hopper

Tim O'Connor
 

Didn't these cars require "dimples" on the underside to
clear the wheels/truck-swing? Maybe the train line was run
down the center line of the car to avoid interference?

Tim O'Connor

Yungkurth, "Steam Era of Lehigh Valley", p 58, shows the left sides
of LV 41254 (composite quad) and 41185 (steel-sided quad); the train
pipe isn't visible in either.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.


Re: NRC/IC Reefers

Tim O'Connor
 

I agree with Richard that the NRC-IC cars all appear to be DESPATCH
built. However, I have a shot of NRC-GM&O 19593 with R+2/4 ends and
this car matches several shots of MDT-IC reefers in the 136xx-137xx
series. I'd like to know more about these MDT 13xxx reefers (which
includes MDT-NYC 133xx) -- in particular, I have no roof shots of
them so I don't know if they have RP, DP, or Despatch roofs.

I also have a late 1950's shot of NRC-GM&O 19208 with flat plate
riveted ends!!

Also, MDT-IC 13662 has the circular fan plate and mechanical drive
to the RIGHT HAND side of the door -- the only time I've ever seen
this. None of the other MDT 13xxx cars has any visible fan stuff,
but the ORER listing indicates they all had Preco or Equipco electric
fans. (Any way to tell a car has electric fans by looking at it?)

The last independent ORER listing I have for NRC is 1959. By 1963
NRC is combined with MDT in the ORER. Anyone know exactly when the
combination of the two took place?

Tim O'Connor

JOhn Golden asked me a question off-list for which others may want to
know the answer:

Why does Intermountain have some of these cars with NRC reporting
marks--I'm sure there's a good explanation.

After World War II, instead of enlarging it's own fleet of steel
reefers to replace its aging 1920s wood reefers, the Illinois Central
began leasing reefers from the Northern Refrigerator Car Co., the
leasing subsidiary of New York Central's Merchants Dispatch
Transportation Co. These cars, operated under NRC reporting marks,
had Illinois Central heralds, diamond heralds at first and later
(after the period covered by the STMFC list) circle i heralds.
However, the Intermountain models are incorrect; the prototype NRC
cars were of MDT design, with roofs, ends, and other details that
were different from those on the cars the IC owned.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: 40 year rule?

Tim O'Connor
 

Clark

These rules only apply to the unlimited interchange of such cars.
Exemptions can be granted by mutual agreement and of course, cars
can continue to operate online as long as the owner wants.

Tony is right, the first time for such a rule was in 1970.

Tim O'Connor

For some reason I had it in my mind that freight car underframes had a 40 year life span. I was told otherwise by the more knowledgeable on this list.

This morning at coffee one of the local modelers said he'd read where one railroad had sold some cars that had reached the 40 year mark to another railroad. He was under the impression that at 40 years cars had to be scrapped!

Is there any 40 year rule, or milestone, that applies to freight cars? Just wondering where we were picking up these ideas from....

Thanks,
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


Re: Color of IC Reefers

Tim O'Connor
 

The only orange IC reefer photos that I've seen are of MDT
reefers from 1958 onwards. I don't know when the MDT-IC cars
began to be painted orange, but I think MDT began using orange
paint in the 1940's. Other MDT steel reefer users include GM&O,
DL&W, NYC (i.e. reefers with MDT reporting marks with emblems
of those railroads).

Tim O'Connor

George, Irv Athearn committed many sins against prototype modelers
for which, we may hope, has been forgiven now that he has gone to the
great freight yard in the sky, but this wasn't one of them. If the
Illinois Central ever painted their reefers orange, it was long after
the period covered by the STMFC list. The steel reefers delivered in
1937 and 1941-'42 were yellow-green-black when new (and the 1937 cars
at least, had aluminum painted roofs when delivered). Cars repainted
through the 1940s and '50s were essentially the same, though not with
aluminum roofs. There is photographic evidence of this P/L scheme
continuing well into the '60s, though IC did adopt a simpler P/L
scheme in the 1960s with everything on the sides (including hardware
and ladders) yellow and the rest of the car in black.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Intermountain IC Refrigerator Cars

Tim O'Connor
 

Richard

Tim, as far as I can determine, the IC cars never got electric fans.
The cars built in 1937 had Preco mechanical fans installed in 1940,
and the cars built in 1941-'42 had Preco fans when built.
Ah, ok, I wasn't making an electrical/mechanical fan
distinction -- I don't know enough about the fans to do
that. Good to know they were installed in 1940 -- so the
fan-less cars only ran 1937-1940?

They also had National B-1 trucks when delivered.
Who is "they" in this case? Oh, I see...

Trucks on the 1937 cars were ASF double truss spring plankless on
50000-50099, Barber Stabilzed S-2 on 50100-50199, and National B-1
on 50200-50299. Hand brakes were Ajax and running boards were wood.
Thanks for that information! Fills a hole in my notes.

The 1941-'42 cars were essentially the same, but they had W-corner-post
ends with rounded corners. Hand brakes were Superior. This information
comes from the 3-54 IC freight car diagram book. Note that IC 50379
still had mechanical fans when photographed in the '60s.
Again, thanks!

Tim O'Connor


Re: 40 year rule?

Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
 

Tony--

Sligtly OT, but I see many of today's Norfolk Southern cars with stencils reading that the over 40-year-old car that I'm looking at is still in interchange service under an exemption.

Back OT--were there similar exemptions to the 50-year rule in the era of our STMFC group?

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

Clark Propst wrote:
For some reason I had it in my mind that freight car underframes had
a 40 year life span. I was told otherwise by the more knowledgeable
on this list.
Is there any 40 year rule, or milestone, that applies to freight
cars? Just wondering where we were picking up these ideas from....
In the era of this list, Clark, there was no such rule AFAIK.
Today there is.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: 40 year rule?

Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

This rule did not come into effect until the late 1960's or early 1970's.

KL
1307E0904

----- Original Message -----
From: Clark and Eileen

For some reason I had it in my mind that freight car underframes had a 40 year life span. I was told otherwise by the more knowledgeable on this list.

This morning at coffee one of the local modelers said he'd read where one railroad had sold some cars that had reached the 40 year mark to another railroad. He was under the impression that at 40 years cars had to be scrapped!

Is there any 40 year rule, or milestone, that applies to freight cars? Just wondering where we were picking up these ideas from....


Re: was 40 year rule? When retro with RB trucks?

water.kresse@...
 

When did the railroads have to replace older trucks with roller-bearing journaled trucks to keep older cars in inter-change service.  I'm looking at 1942-1946 built 70-ton covered hopper cars that stayed in revenue service until 1988-89.



Al Kresse

----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony Thompson" <thompson@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Saturday, September 4, 2010 12:38:11 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] 40 year rule?

Clark Propst wrote:
For some reason I had it in my mind that freight car underframes had  
a 40 year life span. I was told otherwise by the more knowledgeable  
on this list.
Is there any 40 year rule, or milestone, that applies to freight  
cars? Just wondering where we were picking up these ideas from....
     In the era of this list, Clark, there was no such rule AFAIK.  
Today there is.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: 40 year rule?

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Clark Propst wrote:
For some reason I had it in my mind that freight car underframes had a 40 year life span. I was told otherwise by the more knowledgeable on this list.
Is there any 40 year rule, or milestone, that applies to freight cars? Just wondering where we were picking up these ideas from....
In the era of this list, Clark, there was no such rule AFAIK. Today there is.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: NRC/IC Reefers

Clark Propst
 

I believe Stan Rydarowicz's* roofs and ends, two styles, for the orange NYC built cars.

Clark Propst

*Rydarowicz's - say that three times fast : )


40 year rule?

Clark Propst
 

For some reason I had it in my mind that freight car underframes had a 40 year life span. I was told otherwise by the more knowledgeable on this list.

This morning at coffee one of the local modelers said he'd read where one railroad had sold some cars that had reached the 40 year mark to another railroad. He was under the impression that at 40 years cars had to be scrapped!

Is there any 40 year rule, or milestone, that applies to freight cars? Just wondering where we were picking up these ideas from....

Thanks,
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


NRC/IC Reefers

Richard Hendrickson
 

JOhn Golden asked me a question off-list for which others may want to
know the answer:

Why does Intermountain have some of these cars with NRC reporting
marks--I'm sure there's a good explanation.

After World War II, instead of enlarging it's own fleet of steel
reefers to replace its aging 1920s wood reefers, the Illinois Central
began leasing reefers from the Northern Refrigerator Car Co., the
leasing subsidiary of New York Central's Merchants Dispatch
Transportation Co. These cars, operated under NRC reporting marks,
had Illinois Central heralds, diamond heralds at first and later
(after the period covered by the STMFC list) circle i heralds.
However, the Intermountain models are incorrect; the prototype NRC
cars were of MDT design, with roofs, ends, and other details that
were different from those on the cars the IC owned.


Richard Hendrickson


Re: Color of IC Reefers

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Sep 4, 2010, at 7:29 AM, gsc3 wrote:

As a lurker and occassional visitor to this site, I must say I'm
a bit confused. I thought someone wrote a long time ago that IC
reefers were orange and that the yellow-green-black scheme was an
invention of Irv Athearn. Period difference or model difference
for the orange and yellow cars?

Thanks,
George Courtney
George, Irv Athearn committed many sins against prototype modelers
for which, we may hope, has been forgiven now that he has gone to the
great freight yard in the sky, but this wasn't one of them. If the
Illinois Central ever painted their reefers orange, it was long after
the period covered by the STMFC list. The steel reefers delivered in
1937 and 1941-'42 were yellow-green-black when new (and the 1937 cars
at least, had aluminum painted roofs when delivered). Cars repainted
through the 1940s and '50s were essentially the same, though not with
aluminum roofs. There is photographic evidence of this P/L scheme
continuing well into the '60s, though IC did adopt a simpler P/L
scheme in the 1960s with everything on the sides (including hardware
and ladders) yellow and the rest of the car in black.

Richard Hendrickson


Color of IC Reefers

George Courtney
 

As a lurker and occassional visitor to this site, I must say I'm a bit confused. I thought someone wrote a long time ago that IC reefers were orange and that the yellow-green-black scheme was an invention of Irv Athearn. Period difference or model difference for the orange and yellow cars?

Thanks,
George Courtney


Re: Intermountain IC Refrigerator Cars

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Sep 3, 2010, at 6:05 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:


Sunshine kits 46.18-46.19 are IC "R-40-10" S-corner and
46.20-46.21 are IC "R-40-10" W-corner cars with the correct
doors. The .18 and .20 are as delivered, and .19 and .21 are
the revised cars with electric fans.
Tim, as far as I can determine, the IC cars never got electric fans.
The cars built in 1937 had Preco mechanical fans installed in 1940,
and the cars built in 1941-'42 had Preco fans when built. They also
had National B-1 trucks when delivered. Trucks on the 1937 cars
were ASF double truss spring plankless on 50000-50099, Barber
Stabilzed S-2 on 50100-50199, and National B-1 on 50200-50299. Hand
brakes were Ajax and running boards were wood. The 194-'42 cars were
essentially the same, but they had W-corner-post ends with rounded
corners. Hand brakes were Superior. This information comes from the
3-54 IC freight car diagram book. Note that IC 50379 still had
mechanical fans when photographed in the '60s.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Intermountain IC Refrigerator Cars

Tim O'Connor
 

John

The black paint on the end continued on the corners of the car,
so you'd need to touch that up.

The bottom of the door needs to be painted green, except for the
bottom of the door locking rod, and its hardware, which is black.

By 1950 the tackboard is black, and the roof is black.

The taller PFE doors are noticeably different. The IC car doors
had a peaked "rain shield" or hood that stuck out a little above
the door. In some photos there's a dark shadow below that hood.

I don't know what type of running board or handbrake is correct.
The prototype trucks appear to be spring-plankless, with some kind
of friction wedges visible in the ends of the bolsters. A photo of
IC 50379 shows National Type B trucks in 1962, but they might be
replacement trucks by that date.

Tim O'Connor

Thanks for the info. I really don't know anything about these cars other than I'll need a few for my operating scheme. If I model 1950, what paint features should the car have? Is this car appropriate:

http://www.imrcmodels.com/ho/html/46707p.htm

I also have noted that Stan R. offers parts to upgrade the Intermountain cars as IC reefers. Are these for later/different series of cars?

Thanks!
John Golden


Re: Intermountain IC Refrigerator Cars

Tim O'Connor
 

Sunshine kits 46.18-46.19 are IC "R-40-10" S-corner and
46.20-46.21 are IC "R-40-10" W-corner cars with the correct
doors. The .18 and .20 are as delivered, and .19 and .21 are
the revised cars with electric fans.

Tim O'Connor

At 9/3/2010 06:06 PM Friday, you wrote:

The doors on the IC cars were about seven inches shorter
than those on the R-40-10's. 4'-0" x 6'-6" on the IC cars
and 4'-0" x 7'-0 3/4" on the PFE's. If that bothers you,
I think Stan Rydarowicz might have the shorter doors.

Chet French
Dixon, IL


Re: Cambria and Indiana Freight Car Information

al_brown03
 

Some published photos:

C&I 5060 in service, Model Railroading 4/89, p 22

C&I 583 in service, Henderson, "Classic Freight Cars" vol 4, p 12

C&I 823 in service, Classic Trains Wi/03 p 85

C&I 372 in service; C&I 4634, 599, 600 builders'; all RP CYC 4 pp 92-93

C&I 1035 in service, Karig, "Coal Cars: The First 300 Years", p 359; C&I 5067, 454, 911 in service, same book, p 319

C&I 2516, 3059 in service, RMJ 2/02 pp 25-26

C&I 372, 747 in service; C&I 600, 599 builders'; RMJ 8/06 pp 45-49

C&I 4804 in service, Kline and Culotta, "Postwar Freight Car Fleet", p 162

-- hth --

-- Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

--- In STMFC@..., Roger Hinman <rhinman@...> wrote:

http://www.steamfreightcars.com/prototype/photo/hopkinspdfmain.html

There's one photo available in the Chas Wales collection

Roger Hinman
On Sep 3, 2010, at 2:54 PM, cr6485 wrote:

This may not be the most-appropriate forum for this post. If not, I apologize and ask the moderators to delete the message.

Being involved with the restoration of Cambria & Indiana HM 162, I quickly realized that no one seems to have performed a thorough documentation of the railroad's revenue freight car fleet. We struggled quite a bit to find lettering diagrams, builders, and rebuild information. I've decided to begin the process of documenting the C&I's entire fleet throughout its 90-year existance as an active railroad. I want this research to include all cars owned by the railroad, not just hoppers.

Can anyone point me to collection of builder's photos or other original fleet information. I'm looking for orders, builders photos, in-service photos, etc... from all eras. I've checked the normal online means (The Fallen Flags site, the C&I site, amongst many others), Retter's Standard Steel lists, and Bill Nixon's photos. I've also gone through the files section of this group to see the Westerfield photo list and other things. Surprisingly little has shown up.

What else is available? Would anyone be willing to help point me in the proper direction? I'm willing to pay postage on any items sent to me, and will return items promptly, post paid.

Incidentally, anyone interested in the restoration of 162 can look at the following URL: http://tinyurl.com/24fejfh

Thanks,
Keith Burkey



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