Date   

Re: The tedium of building resin stock cars

Andy Carlson
 

I, too, have built patterns for resin casting HO stock cars (A GN 1958 rebuild
of their SS 40' boxcars, and a WP rebuild of their 40' SS boxcars).


I don't think that the extra complexity was particularly onerous, in fact, I
found that the stock car portion (the car side and door) was comparable in time
to doing a boxcar side.

I saved myself a lot of time by building up the "back side dams" beneath the
verticals and diagonals with modelers clay. The alternative is to hand fit
styrene blocks at each point. The clay worked extremely well. For those that
don't know what I am talking about, every place where a structural member
bridges the gap between adjacent boards has to be blocked so the RTV rubber
won't wrap around that member, trapping the pattern into the mold.

I would be encouraging to members of this list to build a stock car, either as a
pattern, or as a resin kit. They are very rewarding (except financially).

-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA




________________________________
From: dnaldimodaroloc <dnaldimodaroloc@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Fri, August 20, 2010 11:07:57 AM
Subject: [STMFC] The tedium of building resin stock cars


Fred, I wouldn't even think about scratchbuilding a stock car unless I were
desperate to have a prototype that has never been done in resin or styrene. I
have just completed the master for a Canda stock car, and would guess that I
have used about 500 pieces of styrene altogether. And since it is a master, I
only had to do one side, not both. Even for a less complicated stock car,
figure on assembling a minimum of 200 pieces of styrene. Compare that to the
number of pieces in a resin stock car kit (will be 12 for my kit). Yes, you will
need 6-8 hours to assemble a resin stock car, and the sanding is tedious. But
for scratchbuilding the same car, multiply that time by a factor of at least 10.

Best,
Adrian Hundhausen
www.silvercrashcarworks.com

--- In STMFC@..., "Armand Premo" <armprem2@...> wrote:

Gentlemen,I have built four RCS Rutland stock cars,Three Westerfield CN and one
CPR as well as one F&C B&M stock car.All well worth the effort and much easier
to build than one P2K stock car kit.Not bragging,but the results are well worth
the effort.Armand Premo
----- Original Message -----
From: Anthony Thompson
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 12:25 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Resin sanding?



All I can say is, I did build one resin stock car and don't
look forward to repeating the experience. The final model is great,
but getting there wasn't.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






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Re: Train of Thought- Sanding resin flash, or: avoiding bloody finger ti

Bruce Smith
 

On Aug 20, 2010, at 11:33 AM, Jim Betz wrote:


Any one want to buy my cash of resin stock car kits?
Will you take cache or credit? ;^)

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
__
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|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
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Re: Reducing 1/48 drawing to 1/87

Keith Jordan
 

Credit where credit is due: Nolan is quoting Bob Dylan in "My Back Pages."

(Required FC content: Bob also sang "Freight Train Blues."

Keith Jordan

--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

Nolan Hinshaw wrote:
I was so much older then; I'm younger than that now.
Great insight, Nolan. Me too <g>.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


The tedium of building resin stock cars

Adrian Hundhausen
 

Fred, I wouldn't even think about scratchbuilding a stock car unless I were desperate to have a prototype that has never been done in resin or styrene. I have just completed the master for a Canda stock car, and would guess that I have used about 500 pieces of styrene altogether. And since it is a master, I only had to do one side, not both. Even for a less complicated stock car, figure on assembling a minimum of 200 pieces of styrene. Compare that to the number of pieces in a resin stock car kit (will be 12 for my kit). Yes, you will need 6-8 hours to assemble a resin stock car, and the sanding is tedious. But for scratchbuilding the same car, multiply that time by a factor of at least 10.

Best,
Adrian Hundhausen
www.silvercrashcarworks.com

--- In STMFC@..., "Armand Premo" <armprem2@...> wrote:

Gentlemen,I have built four RCS Rutland stock cars,Three Westerfield CN and one CPR as well as one F&C B&M stock car.All well worth the effort and much easier to build than one P2K stock car kit.Not bragging,but the results are well worth the effort.Armand Premo
----- Original Message -----
From: Anthony Thompson
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 12:25 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Resin sanding?



All I can say is, I did build one resin stock car and don't
look forward to repeating the experience. The final model is great,
but getting there wasn't.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3082 - Release Date: 08/19/10 14:35:00




Re: Resin sanding?

Armand Premo
 

Gentlemen,I have built four RCS Rutland stock cars,Three Westerfield CN and one CPR as well as one F&C B&M stock car.All well worth the effort and much easier to build than one P2K stock car kit.Not bragging,but the results are well worth the effort.Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: Anthony Thompson
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 12:25 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Resin sanding?



All I can say is, I did build one resin stock car and don't
look forward to repeating the experience. The final model is great,
but getting there wasn't.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






------------------------------------------------------------------------------



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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3082 - Release Date: 08/19/10 14:35:00


Re: Resin sanding?

Charlie D modeling the Mopac http://mopac51.tripod <trduck@...>
 

I've built three Westerfield Mopac stock cars and Al's flash between the boards isn't difficult to remove. I just take a piece of 320 grit wet sand paper and run some water and dishwashing liquid over the paper and gently sand the back of the sides until the flash between the boards is of an onion skin thinness. I then take a new Exacto No. 11 blade and remove the thinned flash. It didn't take all that long for each car.

Charlie Duckworth

--- In STMFC@..., Frederick Freitas <prrinvt@...> wrote:

GUYZ,
 
I keep hearing about stock cars kits, yet I have never heard how difficult they might be to assemble. In truth, I have not done one as yet, though I am looking for a few. Can these be any worse than drawing the sides and using it as an assembly template for Evergreen strips?  Trick to this method is to keep the pins out of your finger tips!
 
Fred Freitas



Re: Train of Thought- Sanding resin flash, or: avoiding bloody finger ti

Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

On 8/20/2010 9:33 AM, Jim Betz wrote:
Any one want to buy my cash of resin stock car kits?
I have a couple or couple of dozen if anyone bites :-) .

--
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax--Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: Resin sanding?

Pierre <pierre.oliver@...>
 

Fred,
Assembling a stock car(once the castings are ready) is usually no more difficult or easy as a boxcar. It really depends upon the prototype and the choices made by the patternmaker.
As anyone can who has built resin can attest to, the patternmaker has a god like power. He can make a kit a delight or a trial based upon decisions made.
Pierre Oliver

--- In STMFC@..., Frederick Freitas <prrinvt@...> wrote:

GUYZ,
 
I keep hearing about stock cars kits, yet I have never heard how difficult they might be to assemble. In truth, I have not done one as yet, though I am looking for a few. Can these be any worse than drawing the sides and using it as an assembly template for Evergreen strips?  Trick to this method is to keep the pins out of your finger tips!
 
Fred Freitas

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Train of Thought- Sanding resin flash, or: avoiding bloody finger ti

Jim Betz
 

Any one want to buy my cash of resin stock car kits?


Re: Resin sanding?

Steve SANDIFER
 

My first resin kit was a Westerfield Santa Fe stock car. No problems.
http://atsfrr.net/resources/Sandifer/Clinics/Stk/Mod/WesATSF.JPG

----------------------------------------------------------------
J. Stephen (Steve) Sandifer
mailto:steve.sandifer@...
Home: 12027 Mulholland Dr., Meadows Place, TX 77477, 281-568-9918
Office: Southwest Central Church of Christ, 4011 W. Bellfort, Houston, TX
77025, 713-667-9417
Personal: http://www.geocities.com/stevesandifer2000/index
Church: http://www.swcentral.org

----- Original Message -----
From: Frederick Freitas
To: stmfc@...
Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 11:19 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Resin sanding?



GUYZ,

I keep hearing about stock cars kits, yet I have never heard how difficult they might be to assemble. In truth, I have not done one as yet, though I am looking for a few. Can these be any worse than drawing the sides and using it as an assembly template for Evergreen strips? Trick to this method is to keep the pins out of your finger tips!

Fred Freitas


Re: Resin sanding?

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

All I can say is, I did build one resin stock car and don't look forward to repeating the experience. The final model is great, but getting there wasn't.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Resin sanding?

Frederick Freitas <prrinvt@...>
 

GUYZ,
 
I keep hearing about stock cars kits, yet I have never heard how difficult they might be to assemble. In truth, I have not done one as yet, though I am looking for a few. Can these be any worse than drawing the sides and using it as an assembly template for Evergreen strips?  Trick to this method is to keep the pins out of your finger tips!
 
Fred Freitas


Re: Reducing 1/48 drawing to 1/87

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Steve Sandifer wrote:
Using a copy machine, put the 1/48 on the machine and copy at 55%. Then use your HO scale ruler to check some the dimensions of several things. In my experience, by the time a drawing is drawn and printed, it may not be exactly to scale, and some copy machines are "approximate" as well. It may take 2-3 copies at 54%, 55%, and 56% for you to get the correct scale.
Steve makes an excellent point. Most copy machines are off by a few percent. If you measure a 1:1 copy, for example, it is often 98% (plus or minus) of the original. So you cannot count on a setting such as 55% to yield exactly that percentage. As Steve says, try it and make sure.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Reducing 1/48 drawing to 1/87

Steve SANDIFER
 

Using a copy machine, put the 1/48 on the machine and copy at 55%. Then use your HO scale ruler to check some the dimensions of several things. In my experience, by the time a drawing is drawn and printed, it may not be exactly to scale, and some copy machines are "approximate" as well. It may take 2-3 copies at 54%, 55%, and 56% for you to get the correct scale.

----------------------------------------------------------------
J. Stephen (Steve) Sandifer
mailto:steve.sandifer@...
Home: 12027 Mulholland Dr., Meadows Place, TX 77477, 281-568-9918
Office: Southwest Central Church of Christ, 4011 W. Bellfort, Houston, TX
77025, 713-667-9417
Personal: http://www.geocities.com/stevesandifer2000/index
Church: http://www.swcentral.org

----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Welch
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 5:47 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Reducing 1/48 drawing to 1/87



I am somewhat embarrassed to admit I am drawing a blank on how to
calculate the % for reducing a drawing done in 1/48 to 1/87. While I
am getting over having to ask, can someone help me out?!

I was much better at geometry and trigonometry.

Bill Welch


Re: Train of Thought- Sanding resin flash, or: avoiding bloody finger tips.

Clark Propst
 

Some models come with a square of foam in the box to 'hold' the model during shipment. I've used these foam chunks to 'hold' the sides while sanding.

I made the mistake of telling my operating crew that hogs were shipped in double deck stock cars. I have more Westerfield Milwaukee single deck cars 3 to 1. The crews started giving me crap about having hogs in single deck cars. Finally I emailed Al and asked if he'd make me some double doors. He did. I replaced the doors and redecaled the cars.

The other day they showed me where "Blackstone" is coming out with HOn3 stocks for sheep loading with single doors.....

Clark Propst


Re: Train of Thought- Sanding resin flash, or: avoiding bloody finger tips.

Pierre <pierre.oliver@...>
 

Oh Jack. You don't know what you're missing!
Every resinator should go through the special joy that is stock car kits. :-)
Pierre Oliver

--- In STMFC@..., "Jack Burgess" <jack@...> wrote:

The YV never had a need to run stock cars so I don't ever see the need to
built a resin stock car kit. But it seems that one of the problems is
getting constant pressure when you are sanding, regardless of the grade of
sandpaper. I once purchased a small sheet of "rubber" at the hardware store
to temporarily stop a leak on a water pipe (the rubber and a pair of
radiator clamps did the job). I wonder if a piece of rubber attached to a
block of wood (with contact cement or double sided tape) could be used in
lieu of your fingers during the sanding operation? The rubber would allow
the block to conform to the surface variations of the resin side and,
hopefully, also let the piece slide back and forth on the sandpaper without
slipping. If that works as envisioned, it would even out the pressure as you
sand.

Just an untried thought...

Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyrr.com


Re: Train of Thought- Sanding resin flash, or: avoiding bloody finger tips.

Jack Burgess <jack@...>
 

The YV never had a need to run stock cars so I don't ever see the need to
built a resin stock car kit. But it seems that one of the problems is
getting constant pressure when you are sanding, regardless of the grade of
sandpaper. I once purchased a small sheet of "rubber" at the hardware store
to temporarily stop a leak on a water pipe (the rubber and a pair of
radiator clamps did the job). I wonder if a piece of rubber attached to a
block of wood (with contact cement or double sided tape) could be used in
lieu of your fingers during the sanding operation? The rubber would allow
the block to conform to the surface variations of the resin side and,
hopefully, also let the piece slide back and forth on the sandpaper without
slipping. If that works as envisioned, it would even out the pressure as you
sand.

Just an untried thought...

Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyrr.com


Re: Hutchins Roofs

Clark Propst
 

Oh great, My car's been in operation for two years! Just like my Westerfield NYC box car(3+yrs)I have a new roof ready to put on it. Someday...

My friend Bob has a saying "The more you know, the less you can model."

Clark Propst

--- In STMFC@..., Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...> wrote:

On Aug 19, 2010, at 1:32 PM, Bill Welch wrote:

I agree with Ed that the minor rib on Hutchins roofs are often
exaggerated. Another point to remember is that on FGE./WFE/BRE cars
rebuilt with this roof there is no such rib or really crease. My
theory is that they purchased Hutchins parts but supplied their own
steel panels. For those of you building the modernized Westerfield
model of the ex-PRR R7 reefers, you need to remove the rib cast into
the middle of the roof panels.
Bill, as I think I have pointed out in a previous post, the Hutchins
information in the Car Builders' Cyclopedias is ambiguous. In the
illustration in the 1931 CBCyc, the shallow intermediate ribs between
the seam caps are shown, but in the drawing that accompanies it (and
also appears in the 1937 CBCyc) they are not. So IMHO a more likely
explanation than your speculation above is that at some point in the
late 1920s Hutchins stopped putting the shallow ribs on the roof
sheets, and they were no longer present by the time FGEX began
applying Hutchins roofs.

Richard Hendrickson



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Train of Thought- Sanding resin flash, or: avoiding bloody finger tips.

soolinehistory <destorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Al and Patricia Westerfield" <westerfield@...> wrote:

Denny - We once got a request for new stock car sides from a dentist who used a belt sander to remove the flash (and everything else. - Al Westerfield

Imagine what he'd do inside your mouth!

:-(

Dennis


Re: Train of Thought- Sanding resin flash, or: avoiding bloody finger tips.

Pierre <pierre.oliver@...>
 

Doc,
Entertaining read.
As I've said in clinics on building resin kits, the best way to get good at sanding resin castings is to do a string of stock cars. It'll either cure you or kill you.:-)
What I do which helps relieve the tedium and speeds up the process is to use coarser sand paper. 80 or 120 grit. The 80 is reserved for those cases where the flash is very thick. One needs to be very careful about how much material one is removing, but with a little diligence the job can be done fairly quickly. I've yet to sand through a casting.
Which reminds me, it's time to glue more sand paper to plexi for sanding resin. The old sheets are worn out.
Pierre Oliver

--- In STMFC@..., Denny Anspach <danspach@...> wrote:

Friends, I am once again engaging in my usual summer push-on-the-porch to build at least several fine kits, some really challenging, and others merely enjoyable. I have no grand plan or scheme, but simply choose those projects that catch my fancy and interest.

One of my current projects is a thoroughly delightful Westerfield Milwaukee Road 36' drop-door stock car kit, and as one might expect, the exquisite flat sides with their myriads of slats and fine bracing are all laid out in high relief on a relatively thick tough slab of resin. Now, the entire project depends upon cleaning out all flash between these fine slats and braces without collateral damage, the produced spaces to be squarely and smoothly cleared. In this regard, all know what to do: sand the backs of these sides until the flash between the slats becomes so thin that it can be easily cleaned out with the hosts of various sharp instruments that are right at hand (none of which really fit, or do the job!).

So the sanding of these large pieces begin: a segment of 220 grit wet-or-dry sandpaper is laid out flat; the side is placed on its back; and with fingers spread-eagled the length and width of the slide, the side is moved back and forth with sufficient pressure to engage the cutting sand paper granules, but not enough to grab the sandpaper and bunch it up with the creases that will only cause future problems.

Well, after a considerable length of time (I count to 100 slowly, with about three swipes per count per bout of sanding), I take a look and- I find that the flash is indeed minutely being removed, but primarily only under the tips of my "light" fingers. I change the position of my fingers, but I do not get very far because the sand paper is now loading up. I wash the sandpaper with a drop of detergent, dry it on a tea towel, and then get back to sanding. I rotate the side; I try to flatten my finger tips; I change my finger positions; I load up again; I wash again, and so on. Finally, I detect that the the bloom is off the rose on this once-fresh sandpaper (resin must be harder than I would imagine), and new sand paper is called for.

Now, I steal the small broiler pan out of the toaster over, fill it with detergent water, submerge the sandpaper, and commence sanding again, this time underwater. Things move faster (the paper is now self cleaning), and at least an elapsed 1/2 hour each after starting, finally the sides are becoming thin enough so that the flash between the slats and braces is thin enough to attack with my sharp sticks. However, at the same time, the sides are also becoming thin enough to become somewhat delicate to the handling that is still necessary.

But wait! The much thinned flash must still be removed so that the slats and braces have clean sharp edges, both in fact and in perception. This is undertaken with my principal sharp stick: a #11 Xacto blade whose point has been specially honed on an Arkansas stone, and whose "square" backside has also been flat-sharpened- i.e. the 90º corners are also made as sharp as possible so that with only only the slightest tip, the backside will cut -actually scrape- just about as well as the knife edge on the other side. With this wonder tool, and a variety of stiff brushes, pokers, etc. and about an expended time of @hour, at last the exquisite, now fully-fenestrated sides are ready for their ends to be mitered to fit the car ends (also mitered).

I write this all up so that I can learn from others how THEY handle this relatively common but time consuming and tedious situation. My finger prints have probably been erased from my fingers during previous bouts of such resin flash sanding with much smaller pieces, the skin of the fingers being freshly sanded -bloody even- along with the target resin part.

I will say that demanding kits like this make me realize once again what a fulfilling delightful hobby this is!

Denny










H-mmm.
Denny S. Anspach, MD
Okoboji, Iowa