Date   

Re: Red Caboose 103W welded tankcar

Brian Carlson
 

Not Navy, US Army Transportation Corps, later DoD. See the April 1996 issue
of RMJ for Richard Hendrickson's article on the cars, includes photos. USAX
had 740 cars in the series 11635-12374 per the article



A photo of one of the tanks in the 1980's shows metal walkways along the
side but this may have been a later addition after the wood rotted since the
photos of an earlier car doesn't show a waffle shadow pattern one would
expect from the lighting angle. Looks wood to me.



Brian J. Carlson, P.E.

Cheektowaga NY

prrk41361@...



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Mark
M
Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2010 10:00 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Red Caboose 103W welded tankcar





I have read earlier posts and believe that Red caboose 103W offering was a
US Navy model?, if correct could someone lead me to decals and photo. Would
the Navy version have metal walkways like Plano makes?

Bought five of these years ago and have a feeling that might have been a
mistake.

Mark Morgan


Re: Atlas 1932 boxcar...

soolinehistory <destorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Steve Lucas" <stevelucas3@...> wrote:

A quick question---which versions of this car are actually correct for which roads? I get the impression that this model is accurate for very few roads.

Thanks in advance,

Steve Lucas.
As far as I can tell, all the AAR roofs suffer from the same deficiency; the raised panel runs all the way to the edge, so that knocks all those out of the box for me.


Dennis


Red Caboose 103W welded tankcar

Mark
 

I have read earlier posts and believe that Red caboose 103W offering was a US Navy model?, if correct could someone lead me to decals and photo. Would the Navy version have metal walkways like Plano makes?

Bought five of these years ago and have a feeling that might have been a mistake.

Mark Morgan


Re: Atlas 1932 boxcar...

Todd Horton
 

The Central of Georgia cars did not have poling pockets as the model does. The
tack boards also appear to be slightly larger on the model than the prototype.
Todd Horton




________________________________
From: Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wed, July 7, 2010 6:44:16 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Atlas 1932 boxcar...

 
A quick question---which versions of this car are actually correct for which
roads? I get the impression that this model is accurate for very few roads.

Thanks in advance,

Steve Lucas.







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


C&NW WE boxcars.

lrkdbn
 

Dear list:
I have a "Q" that maybe one of the C&NW aficionadoes can answer:
Were any of the C&NW's War Emergency boxcars lettered in any other scheme than the "Route of the 400" prior to their rebuilding to all steel cars in the 1960s?

Thanks in advance,
Larry King
<lrkdbn@...>


Atlas 1932 boxcar...

Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
 

A quick question---which versions of this car are actually correct for which roads? I get the impression that this model is accurate for very few roads.

Thanks in advance,

Steve Lucas.


Re: Westerfield/Mines confusion

Aley, Jeff A
 

Al,

Brad Pitt doesn't look like you today, but give him time... :)

Regards,

-Jeff


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Al and Patricia Westerfield
Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2010 2:02 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Westerfield/Mines confusion



Ed - And I thought I looked like Brad Pitt! - Al Westerfield


Re: Westerfield/Mines confusion

Al and Patricia Westerfield <westerfield@...>
 

Ed - And I thought I looked like Brad Pitt! - Al Westerfield

----- Original Message -----
From: ed_mines
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2010 2:21 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Westerfield/Mines confusion





--- In STMFC@..., "Schuyler Larrabee" <schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote:
> OK, I'm late, but Ed Mines wrote:
> Al and I look quite similar. I have a mustache but not a beard. Also I
> weight about twice as much as Al does, them plus some.

> Right, other than those minor issues, you could be mistaken for each other,
> no trouble. Be sure, guys, to be certain you're really dealing with Al, and
> not Ed. Or vice versa, as the case may be . . .

We both wear glasses, both like freight cars, both like model railroading and HO scale, both have some connection to the Bronx (so a lot of you would think we speak with an accent) and both wear out pin vices. Oh, and we both were chemists.

I'm the bigger one.

Ed


Re: Rock Island aluminum box cars (Don Balls Photographs)

Aley, Jeff A
 

Guys,

From what I understand, the executor of Don Ball, Jr.'s estate has parceled out the negatives to various organizations, according to roadname.

For example, the SRHA has his Southern Railway negs/slides (as Frank mentioned), and the Rock Island Technical Society has his RI negs and slides (which I scanned for them), and I believe the Topeka Chapter NRHS has his UP negs and slides. It appears that the UConn library has his New Haven slides, plus some others.

Regards,

-Jeff


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Frank Greene
Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2010 12:17 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Rock Island aluminum box cars (Don Balls Photographs)



rwitt_2000 wrote:
FWIW, Don Ball's railroad photograph collection is located in the
University of Connecticut Library.

http://doddcenter.uconn.edu/findaids/Ball/MSS20030093.html
Not entirely. The SRHA has his Southern Railway negatives/slides.

--

Frank Greene
Memphis, TN


Westerfield/Mines confusion

ed_mines
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Schuyler Larrabee" <schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote:
OK, I'm late, but Ed Mines wrote:
Al and I look quite similar. I have a mustache but not a beard. Also I
weight about twice as much as Al does, them plus some.
Right, other than those minor issues, you could be mistaken for each other,
no trouble. Be sure, guys, to be certain you're really dealing with Al, and
not Ed. Or vice versa, as the case may be . . .

We both wear glasses, both like freight cars, both like model railroading and HO scale, both have some connection to the Bronx (so a lot of you would think we speak with an accent) and both wear out pin vices. Oh, and we both were chemists.

I'm the bigger one.

Ed


Re: Rock Island aluminum box cars (Don Balls Photographs)

Frank Greene
 

rwitt_2000 wrote:
FWIW, Don Ball's railroad photograph collection is located in the
University of Connecticut Library.

http://doddcenter.uconn.edu/findaids/Ball/MSS20030093.html

Not entirely. The SRHA has his Southern Railway negatives/slides.

--

Frank Greene
Memphis, TN


Re: Rock Island aluminum box cars

cef39us <cfrench@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Steve and Barb Hile" <shile@...> wrote:

I have been away for a week or so. At one point, I was able to read some of
this discussion. Tim pulled up an old (2003) email from Doc Denny and I was
thinking he would find another in that stream from me noting that there was
a color photo in Don Ball's 1985 color photo book, RAILROADS, (page 47) that
shows a very oblique view of one of the RI aluminum express boxcars that
does seem to show a red colored medallion, probably solid, not outline. The
slogan to the left of the door seems to be black, but it would be difficult
to say for sure about a single word.

I just looked at the photo and I concur with Steve that the medallion
appears to be solid red, not an outline. There is no date in the
caption.

Chet French
Dixon, IL


Re: Rock Island aluminum box cars (Don Balls Photographs)

rwitt_2000
 

Jon Miller wrote:

there was
a color photo in Don Ball's 1985 color photo book, RAILROADS, (page
47)
Thought I had that book for a minute but turned out I have his
"colorful railroads" published in '78! :-)

--
FWIW, Don Ball's railroad photograph collection is located in the
University of Connecticut Library.

http://doddcenter.uconn.edu/findaids/Ball/MSS20030093.html

He didn't take photos of freight cars, but they are often in the
background of his images. The collection appears to be fully indexed
into two parts: NH and all other railroads.

Regards,

Bob Witt


Re: Rock Island aluminum box cars

cj riley <cjriley42@...>
 

--- On Wed, 7/7/10, Aley, Jeff A <Jeff.A.Aley@...> wrote:

I believe it's on p 74 of said book.

CJ Riley







 












<I was unable to find the Don Ball, Jr. photo that you cited; could you please double-check?


noting that there was

a color photo in Don Ball's 1985 color photo book, RAILROADS, (page 47) that

shows a very oblique view of one of the RI aluminum express boxcars that

does seem to show a red colored medallion, probably solid, not outline. The

slogan to the left of the door seems to be black, but it would be difficult

to say for sure about a single word.>






















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Rock Island aluminum box cars

Aley, Jeff A
 

Steve,

I was unable to find the Don Ball, Jr. photo that you cited; could you please double-check?

I ask because I am the person who scanned [most of] the Don Ball, Jr. photo collection for the Rock Island Technical Society, and so I may have a better quality image than that reproduced in the book.

Regards,

-Jeff


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Steve and Barb Hile
Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 9:42 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Rock Island aluminum box cars



I have been away for a week or so. At one point, I was able to read some of
this discussion. Tim pulled up an old (2003) email from Doc Denny and I was
thinking he would find another in that stream from me noting that there was
a color photo in Don Ball's 1985 color photo book, RAILROADS, (page 47) that
shows a very oblique view of one of the RI aluminum express boxcars that
does seem to show a red colored medallion, probably solid, not outline. The
slogan to the left of the door seems to be black, but it would be difficult
to say for sure about a single word.

My contention in 2003 was that this could well have been a one of a kind
paint job because the builder's photos and others, including the one we used
in the Color Guide show black outline Medallion and Slogan, even 20 years
later.

I do have black and white photos that show 20060 and 20063 in a dark color,
presumably "Pullman green," with light (dulux gold?) lettering. I pointed
out in 2003 that this was not unusual for the RI. They did try to match the
overall look of their trains, using silver express cars, both these and the
ex-troop sleepers in lightweight trains and green painted cars with gold
lettering in heavyweight trains. This also mitigates against red lettering
on the aluminum cars, since they were painted some of the ex-troop cars
silver with black lettering, like that used on the lightweight cars.

It has been interesting to see more emails on this topic than there were
cars (10) in the series.

Regards,

Steve Hile

_____

From: STMFC@...<mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:STMFC@...<mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Ed
Hawkins
Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 11:07 PM
To: STMFC@...<mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Rock Island aluminum box cars

On Jul 6, 2010, at 10:29 PM, pullmanboss wrote:

There's an old Varney embossed paper sided kit (unbuilt) for this car
on eBay right now:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Varney-HO-B-37-Rock-Island-Aluminum-40-Train-Box-
Car-/260630911272

The herald and word "ROCKETS" are red; all other lettering is black.

Tom Madden
Tom,
I personally wouldn't trust the Varney decal sheet to be a guide for
accurate colors for these cars because, at the very least, the red Rock
Island medallion was inaccurate for the 20060-series aluminum express
box cars. Varney may have produced the decals to embellish what would
have preferred the car to look like rather than how the prototype cars
were actually lettered.

The builder's photo and the in-service color photo in the RI color
guide book both show the road name and outline of the medallion in a
dark color (black or possibly red) with the aluminum sides as the
background. A red Rock Island medallion with white lettering and trim
was used on selected other pieces of RI equipment with several
illustrations of them in the color guide book.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: Rock Island aluminum box cars

Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
 

3.4.
Re: Rock Island aluminum box cars
Posted by: "Anthony Thompson" thompson@... sigpress
Tue Jul 6, 2010 9:40 pm (PDT)



Ed Hawkins wrote:
I personally wouldn't trust the Varney decal sheet to be a guide for
accurate colors for these cars because, at the very least, the red
Rock Island medallion was inaccurate for the 20060-series aluminum
express box cars. Varney may have produced the decals to embellish
what would have preferred the car to look like rather than how the
prototype cars were actually lettered.
Amen. Varney is known to have done this in other cases, such
as the car-length "wing" scheme for SP Overnights, which Varney knew
had never been put on a car, but did the car sides anyway. Denny
Anspach may romanticize Mr. Varney's work, but there are a number of
known cases where he did what he liked, as Ed says.
Decals? Romanticize? H-mmmm. Clear as mud.

The Varney printed sides were among Varney;s first postwar production
in 1946. Can and did Gordon Varney create these from whole cloth? I
have no idea, but my inclination is that he did not. Did he produce
the sides from a projected concept with red lettering rather than from
the car in real-time with black outline only? Until someone comes up
with a photo of car 20069 in 1946, we are not likely to know the
answers to these weighty questions, and we certainly do not know now.

Romanticize? Hmmph.

Denny


Sacramento


Re: Rock Island aluminum box cars

Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

there was
a color photo in Don Ball's 1985 color photo book, RAILROADS, (page 47)
Thought I had that book for a minute but turned out I have his "colorful railroads" published in '78! :-)

--
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax--Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: Rock Island aluminum box cars

water.kresse@...
 

Were there not some "higher average running speed" truck journal issues with using freight car journal ratings in passenger car usage?



Al Kresse

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim O'Connor" <timboconnor@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wednesday, July 7, 2010 10:21:29 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Rock Island aluminum box cars

http://cgi.ebay.com/Varney-HO-B-37-Rock-Island-Aluminum-40-Train-Box-Car-/260630911272
The herald and word "ROCKETS" are red; all other lettering is black.
The Varney herald has a solid red background, which does NOT  
match photos, in that the heralds in photos all look definitely to be  
outline only, not with a filled field.

Tony Thompson
===========================================================================

The LIFE magazine photo of RI 20060 (at a RR trade show) definitely
shows only the outline herald, as Tony says.

Also the prototype LD LMT value is 126100 and LT WT is 42900 which
adds up to 169000 (like all "50 ton" box cars of that era) while the
Varney values of 102300 and 42700 add up to 145000, which as far as
I know, is simply a number made up by Mr. Varney.

In addition, the NEW 8-45 line on the prototype is below and to the
right of the CAPY stencil, not on the same line. And the trade show
car does not have an EXPRESS stencil, although that could have been
added later.

In addition, the ROCKETS letters on the prototype are much more
slanted to the right, are thicker, and appear to be the centered on
ROUTE OF THE letters so there is an equal amount above and below
the top and bottom of those letters.

In other words, it appears Mr. Varney used his imagination more than
a photograph.

Tim O'Connor


Re: Rock Island aluminum box cars

Tim O'Connor
 

http://cgi.ebay.com/Varney-HO-B-37-Rock-Island-Aluminum-40-Train-Box-Car-/260630911272
The herald and word "ROCKETS" are red; all other lettering is black.
The Varney herald has a solid red background, which does NOT
match photos, in that the heralds in photos all look definitely to be
outline only, not with a filled field.

Tony Thompson
===========================================================================

The LIFE magazine photo of RI 20060 (at a RR trade show) definitely
shows only the outline herald, as Tony says.

Also the prototype LD LMT value is 126100 and LT WT is 42900 which
adds up to 169000 (like all "50 ton" box cars of that era) while the
Varney values of 102300 and 42700 add up to 145000, which as far as
I know, is simply a number made up by Mr. Varney.

In addition, the NEW 8-45 line on the prototype is below and to the
right of the CAPY stencil, not on the same line. And the trade show
car does not have an EXPRESS stencil, although that could have been
added later.

In addition, the ROCKETS letters on the prototype are much more
slanted to the right, are thicker, and appear to be the centered on
ROUTE OF THE letters so there is an equal amount above and below
the top and bottom of those letters.

In other words, it appears Mr. Varney used his imagination more than
a photograph.

Tim O'Connor


Re: Plug doors...

soolinehistory <destorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Kurt Laughlin" <fleeta@...> wrote:

Did the car structure depend on a closed and latched door to handle dynamic
(over-ther-road) loads?

KL
No

Dennis