Date   

Re: Car in Duluth photo

S hed <shed999@...>
 

I thought it was lettered "C.M.Ry." at first but upon closer examination it really is "E.M.Ry" which fits in better as a GN subsidiary.



EMRy is the initials for "Eastern Railway of Minnesota" which is listed in my 1900 ORER but doesn't have its own listing in my 1904 and 1905 ORERs. But it is included as part of the Great Northern listings.



The EMRy (GN) car number 77442 is a combination box and stock car. It part of series 77000 to 79498 and is a 44' long car. In 1900 there are 750 cars, 745 cars in 1904, and 730 cars in 1905. I'm not sure when these cars were built or how much longer these cars lasted but I do like the looks of the car.



- Steve Hedlund, Silver Lake



To: STMFC@...
From: fleeta@...
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 21:07:38 -0500
Subject: [STMFC] Car in Duluth photo





http://www.shorpy.com/node/6958?size=_original

What is the CMRwy (?) car on the left edge, about half way down, in front of the Knudson Ferguson Fruit Co? Some kid of ventilator car?

Also, why do the cars in the rearmost track seem so much bigger than the ones in front? (Example, GFX 10236 vs. NP 8885 or NP 14368 vs. NP 35200) Were the reefers really bigger or is this an optical illusion from the photograhy technique?

KL

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Re: C.I.&W RR{Cincinnati.Indianpolis &Western RR)

Mark
 

Hello, Joel

The B&O group on yahoo would be a great start. I recall a few years ago the B&O Historical Society had a shot in a calender of this road, steam loco with train!

Sincerely, Mark Morgan (Newark Division)

PS fifties

--- On Sat, 1/9/10, brooklynbus <mec-bml@...> wrote:

From: brooklynbus <mec-bml@...>
Subject: [STMFC] C.I.&W RR{Cincinnati.Indianpolis &Western RR)
To: STMFC@...
Date: Saturday, January 9, 2010, 1:32 PM







 









GENTLEMEN:Anyone in the group having either modeling or railfan data on the CI&W(think it was taken over by the B&O in 1926)looking for railfan data as well as any modeling data..

Joel Norman--Missouri


C.I.&W RR{Cincinnati.Indianpolis &Western RR)

brooklynbus <mec-bml@...>
 

GENTLEMEN:Anyone in the group having either modeling or railfan data on the CI&W(think it was taken over by the B&O in 1926)looking for railfan data as well as any modeling data..
Joel Norman--Missouri


Re: Caboose (Box Car)

SUVCWORR@...
 

As did the PRR (NX23 -- X23 boxcar converted to a "bay window" caboose) for which Al Westerfield makes a beautiful kt.

Rich Orr

-----Original Message-----
From: Thomas Warne <warne@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Fri, Jan 8, 2010 2:36 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Caboose (Box Car)


Durling WWII, the Southern Railway converted several wooden box carsto cabooses.
Al Westerfield has kits.
Tom Warne

--- On Fri, 1/8/10, Jon Miller <atsf@...> wrote:

From: Jon Miller <atsf@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Caboose (Box Car)
To: STMFC@...
Date: Friday, January 8, 2010, 9:30 AM


























>Did that term have a somewhat well-defined meaning in those early ORERs?

Was it a former box car converted to a caboose,<


I have seen various photos of converted box cars. As I had no use for

the information I don't remember much except having seen the photos. I

believe Silver Streak once made a kit for a Caboose/boxcar and it may have

been duplicated in plastic in later years.



Jon Miller

AT&SF

For me time has stopped in 1941

Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user

NMRA Life member #2623

Member SFRH&MS































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Re: Car in Duluth photo

Steve Stull
 

Found the link on Shorpy
http://www.shorpy.com/node/6924?size=_original

Steve Stull 
 



MARKETPLACE


Going Green: Your Yahoo! Groups resource for green living





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Re: Car in Duluth photo

Steve Stull
 

Another photo on the site shows the whole car, with  Great Northern  on the left end.
Steve Stull

--- On Sat, 1/9/10, anthony wagner <anycw1@...> wrote:

From: anthony wagner <anycw1@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Car in Duluth photo
To: STMFC@...
Date: Saturday, January 9, 2010, 4:01 AM
















 









Was it a Colorado Midland car? That road was still active then and Colorado was very much an origin point for livestock. Tony Wagner



____________ _________ _________ __

From: cvlk <cvlk@comcast. net>

To: STMFC@yahoogroups. com

Sent: Fri, January 8, 2010 9:01:26 PM

Subject: Re: [STMFC] Car in Duluth photo



 

I looked for the car under various reporting marks (it looks like CM RY but may not be) and couldn't find a match for the car number in the 1905 or 1919 OER.

It may be a horse stockcar.... horses are more delicate animals than cattle and have to be protected from the weather more.

Charlie Vlk



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Re: Car in Duluth photo

anthony wagner
 

Was it a Colorado Midland car? That road was still active then and Colorado was very much an origin point for livestock. Tony Wagner


________________________________
From: cvlk <cvlk@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Fri, January 8, 2010 9:01:26 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Car in Duluth photo

 
I looked for the car under various reporting marks (it looks like CM RY but may not be) and couldn't find a match for the car number in the 1905 or 1919 OER.
It may be a horse stockcar.... horses are more delicate animals than cattle and have to be protected from the weather more.
Charlie Vlk






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Car in Duluth photo

Cyril Durrenberger
 

For you folks more interested in the 1950's this goes back to the earliest days of this list.

The car being discussed is an Eastern Minnesota car.  EM was part of the GN.

I have looked at my ORER's for 1904, 1908, 1913 and 1919 and found the following under

GN stock cars:
 
In 1904 77000-77998 were listed with an inside length of 44'.  In 1904 these were listed as box-stock cars .
 
Also with the same listing were 79000-79498 with a total of 730 of these 44' cars.
 
In 1908 they were listed as stock cars with 699 in service
In 1913 they were listed as stock cars with 656 in service.
In 1919 they appear to have been renumbered to 55000-55651 with 623 in service.
 
In 1904 there were a total of 1633 GN stock cars so these were 44.6% of their stock cars
In 1913 there were a total of 1903 GN stock cars so these were 34.5% of their stock cars.
 In any case they were a significant number of their stock cars for
many years.  I did not check to see when they were last listed.  Does
anyone have a diagram of these cars?
 
The photo shows them lettered for EM, Eastern Minnesota, but the
1904 and later ORER's do not indicate which GN cars that were lettered
for EM.
 
These are very interesting cars.  The D&IR and DM&N also
has some stock cars that had similar sides, but without the roof
hatches, that were rebuilt from box cars.  Some of these lasted into
the 1950's.  The lower sides were likely there to protect the live stock and to minimize exposure to the harsh cold weather that is often experienced in Minnesota (like what is happening now) and other states served by the GN.  It is also interesting that they were 44' long at a time when most stock cars were 34' or 36' long.

 
My guess is that the GN cars had the roof hatches removed at some
time.  Also with this sort of car they likely had feeding troughs
inside of the car that were loaded from the roof hatches.  On most
railroads this type of stock car with roof hatches and troughs was out of favor by about 1910 or the teens
and most were rebuilt without the hatches and the troughs. During the
early 1900's a number of railroads had palace stock cars that had
feeding troughs and watering troughs for the animals. 

 
Cyril Durrenberger

--- On Fri, 1/8/10, cvlk <cvlk@...> wrote:

From: cvlk <cvlk@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Car in Duluth photo
To: STMFC@...
Date: Friday, January 8, 2010, 7:01 PM







 









I looked for the car under various reporting marks (it looks like CM RY but may not be) and couldn't find a match for the car number in the 1905 or 1919 OER.

It may be a horse stockcar.... horses are more delicate animals than cattle and have to be protected from the weather more.

Charlie Vlk


























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Caboose (Box Car)

Rupert & Maureen <gamlenz@...>
 

Mark

None of the group of CB&Q conversions were separately listed in the ORERs - just part of a number block shown as "waycars" until 1907 when the designation was changed to "cabooses" - although cabooses were to retain the waycar designation within the company.

CB&Q subsidiaries - Hannibal & St Joseph, Kansas City St Joseph and Council Bluffs, and St Louis Keokuk and Northwestern had boxcar waycars (some shown as "bouncer waycars") until their assimilation into the CB&Q in 1905-1907. However, they were only shown in the notes following the main equipment listing as opposed to being listed with the company's waycars, and their numbers came from the respective freight car number series. When they were renumbered into the CB&Q numbering system, they became 14850 to 14873.

I don't know of any diagrams or photos specifically for these cars but the fact that they received CB&Q waycar numbers as opposed to combination car numbers and classification (i.e. as a CW car) suggests that these were solely waycars and not multifunctional. .

The second group of conversions took place about the same time when 57 boxcars were rebuilt as regular style waycars with cupolas, and were given spare numbers within the 14800-14889 number block. The equipment listing in about 1912 didn't differentiate between the first and second group of conversions, suggesting that they were of similar appearance and function.

The third group of conversions took place in 1943 when 90 boxcars were converted to waycars. They did not have cupolas or end platforms - merely side access doors and were colloquially known as "widow makers".


Rupert Gamlen
Auckland NZ

----- Original Message -----
From: "mark_mathu" <mark@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 4:01 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Caboose (Box Car)





Charlie Vlk wrote:

Not that some of these conversions did not retain baggage / lcl
facilities; but many roads' cars were simply "war emergency"
conversions to get enough cars on the road to meet the upsurge in
traffic due to both WWI and WWII. The road I'm most familiar
with, the CB&Q, converted boxcars during both conflicts and
assigned class NE-5 to both.
Can anyone familiar with those CB&Q war emergency conversions confirm if they were listed as "Caboose (Box Car)" or something similar in ORERs of the era? That might go a long way to clearing up what the ORER's meant using those terms for those cars.
____
Mark Mathu


Re: Caboose (Box Car)

Charlie Vlk
 

Mark-
The OER carries the entire waycar series which includes the War Emergency Waycars WWII 14800-14890. These cars, while rebuilt from 40 FT boxcars of various builders, were all equipped with regular people doors on sides and none had doors intended for lcl or loading passengers.
I didn't check on the WWI cars but they didn't have side doors either IIRC as they had platforms.
Charlie Vlk


Re: Caboose (Box Car)

Mark Mathu
 

Tom Warne wrote:
Durling WWII, the Southern Railway converted several wooden box
carsto cabooses. Al Westerfield has kits.
Likewise, if anyone familiar with those prototypes can confirm how they were listed in ORERs of that era, that may help clear up if that was the meaning of the "Caboose (Box Car)" listing in early 20th century ORERs.
____
Mark Mathu


Re: Caboose (Box Car)

Mark Mathu
 

Charlie Vlk wrote:

Not that some of these conversions did not retain baggage / lcl
facilities; but many roads' cars were simply "war emergency"
conversions to get enough cars on the road to meet the upsurge in
traffic due to both WWI and WWII. The road I'm most familiar
with, the CB&Q, converted boxcars during both conflicts and
assigned class NE-5 to both.
Can anyone familiar with those CB&Q war emergency conversions confirm if they were listed as "Caboose (Box Car)" or something similar in ORERs of the era? That might go a long way to clearing up what the ORER's meant using those terms for those cars.
____
Mark Mathu


Re: Car in Duluth photo

Charlie Vlk
 

I looked for the car under various reporting marks (it looks like CM RY but may not be) and couldn't find a match for the car number in the 1905 or 1919 OER.
It may be a horse stockcar.... horses are more delicate animals than cattle and have to be protected from the weather more.
Charlie Vlk


Re: Off-Topic--Steam Era Roads

spsalso
 

Richard,

Thanks for posting that "history of street marking" piece. Very handy!

Ed

Edward Sutorik


Re: Box Car Roof Castings

 

Thanks Charlie, Gives me another reason to visit them. I live about a half hour from them, lol!
 
Rich Christie

--- On Fri, 1/8/10, cvlk <cvlk@...> wrote:


From: cvlk <cvlk@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Box Car Roof Castings
To: STMFC@...
Date: Friday, January 8, 2010, 6:31 PM


 



Rich-
The DPH website is a work in progress and they have new software that makes any item displayed linked to the live inventory. I don't think the Viking Roofs are packaged and in inventory at the moment but I'll bet if you call the shop and get hold of Ron he might be able to dig a couple of them for you.... IIRC they have some in storage.
Charlie Vlk

----- Original Message -----
From: Rich C
To: STMFC@yahoogroups. com
Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 3:48 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Box Car Roof Castings

I know that at one time Des Plaines had Viking roofs in HO for the Red Caboose box cars, I have not found them on their website?

Also, would like to know if anyone produces a Murphy radial roof and a Hutchins radial roof? I know they are available in many kits, ie. Sunshine, but seems no one has them as a seperate detail casting.

Thanks in advance,
Rich Christie

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Re: Off-Topic--Steam Era Roads

Richard Townsend
 

Um, that would be the Manual of Uniform Traffic Control Devices.


Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon

-----Original Message-----
From: richtownsend@...
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Fri, Jan 8, 2010 5:52 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Off-Topic--Steam Era Roads





If it wasn't off topic, I would suggest looking for a copy of the 1948 Uniform Manual of Traffic Control Devices.

Also, take a look at this report on the history of highway marking: http://tcd.tamu.edu/Documents/evolution.stand-alone.pdf

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon


Re: Off-Topic--Steam Era Roads

Richard Townsend
 

If it wasn't off topic, I would suggest looking for a copy of the 1948 Uniform Manual of Traffic Control Devices.

Also, take a look at this report on the history of highway marking: http://tcd.tamu.edu/Documents/evolution.stand-alone.pdf

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon

-----Original Message-----
From: John Golden <golden1014@...>
To: stmfc@...
Sent: Fri, Jan 8, 2010 5:43 pm
Subject: [STMFC] Off-Topic--Steam Era Roads




Gentlemen,

While Mike's not looking I might be able to get away with this!

Does anyone have a reference for road/highway markings circa 1949/50? My steam era freight cars (required content) need to cross prototypical roads. Please reply off-list at Golden1014@....

Thanks!

John

John Golden
Bloomington, IN

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Off-Topic--Steam Era Roads

golden1014
 

Gentlemen,
 
While Mike's not looking I might be able to get away with this!
 
Does anyone have a reference for road/highway markings circa 1949/50?  My steam era freight cars (required content) need to cross prototypical roads.  Please reply off-list at Golden1014@....
 
Thanks!
 
John


John Golden
Bloomington, IN

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Caboose (Box Car)

Charlie Vlk
 

Not that some of these conversions did not retain baggage / lcl facilities; but many roads' cars were simply "war emergency" conversions to get enough cars on the road to meet the upsurge in traffic due to both WWI and WWII. The road I'm most familiar with, the CB&Q, converted boxcars during both conflicts and assigned class NE-5 to both.
The WWI Cars got end platforms and cupolas, the WWII cars were strictly side door jobs without any cupola and looked much like similar MOW conversions done up as kitchen and sleeping cars.
The Q did have waycars that were built with both LCL and branchline passengers in mind, but they seemed to be most numerous pre-1920 and post 1950s..... apparently when the anticipated traffic for both could be accomodated in a single multi-purpose car instead of hauling a boxcar or coach/combine just for the traffic.
Charlie Vlk


Could these "caboose-boxcars" be cars used both as cabooses and as lcl
cars?


Re: Box Car Roof Castings

Charlie Vlk
 

Rich-
The DPH website is a work in progress and they have new software that makes any item displayed linked to the live inventory. I don't think the Viking Roofs are packaged and in inventory at the moment but I'll bet if you call the shop and get hold of Ron he might be able to dig a couple of them for you.... IIRC they have some in storage.
Charlie Vlk

----- Original Message -----
From: Rich C
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 3:48 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Box Car Roof Castings



I know that at one time Des Plaines had Viking roofs in HO for the Red Caboose box cars, I have not found them on their website?

Also, would like to know if anyone produces a Murphy radial roof and a Hutchins radial roof? I know they are available in many kits, ie. Sunshine, but seems no one has them as a seperate detail casting.

Thanks in advance,
Rich Christie

109061 - 109080 of 196820