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Re: Michigan freight cars

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

----- Original Message -----
From: <RUTLANDRS@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2010 9:40 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Michigan freight cars


Frank,
Although they are Athearn and MDC cars you might look to Cooper &
Oshtemo at _www.locomotiveworks.com_ (http://www.locomotiveworks.com) They seem
to have a lot of cars for Michigan and vicinity.
Chuck Hladik


In a message dated 1/28/2010 9:34:26 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
destron@... writes:





First a yes/no question:

D&TS 1000-1299 series hoppers - USRA?

And: can anyone give any leads for these?

Delray Connecting 3001-3052, 4027-4032 (hoppers)
Port Huron & Detroit 1001-1005, 1006-1522 (XM)
Wyandotte Terminal 38, 80-84 (XMs); 917-966 (HM); 967-986 (GB)
Escanaba & Lake Superior 2002-2010 (XM)
Manistique & Lake Superior 50-52 (XM), 25000-25024 (FM)
Erie & Michigan 1101-1103 (LO), 1201-1205 (GB)

Thanks,

Frank Valoczy
Vancouver, BC








------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: Michigan freight cars

Frank Valoczy <destron@...>
 

Thanks for that, Chuck. There is of course a scale mismatch in that I'm
not actively working in HO, but if nothing else some of their links look
to be of some interest.

Frank Valoczy
Vancouver, BC

RUTLANDRS@... wrote:

Frank,
Although they are Athearn and MDC cars you might look to Cooper &
Oshtemo at _www.locomotiveworks.com_ (http://www.locomotiveworks.com)
They seem
to have a lot of cars for Michigan and vicinity.
Chuck Hladik


In a message dated 1/28/2010 9:34:26 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
destron@... writes:





First a yes/no question:

D&TS 1000-1299 series hoppers - USRA?

And: can anyone give any leads for these?

Delray Connecting 3001-3052, 4027-4032 (hoppers)
Port Huron & Detroit 1001-1005, 1006-1522 (XM)
Wyandotte Terminal 38, 80-84 (XMs); 917-966 (HM); 967-986 (GB)
Escanaba & Lake Superior 2002-2010 (XM)
Manistique & Lake Superior 50-52 (XM), 25000-25024 (FM)
Erie & Michigan 1101-1103 (LO), 1201-1205 (GB)

Thanks,

Frank Valoczy
Vancouver, BC









------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links




!DSPAM:1291,4b635af2177551220859700!
Re: Air Hoses

soolinehistory <destorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Eric" <eric@...> wrote:

Tim O'Connor wrote:

The old Kadee bracket (which does have the offset angle) seems to be much more rare on prototype cars.
=======================

I have not examined end images of the USRA composite gondola or twin hopper yet to see if a similar bracket was used.

Eric
Drawings published in the 1922 Car Builder's Cyclopedia seem to indicate that they were. Bracketing the angle cock off the end of the center sill was pretty common during the WWI era, but later fell from favor.

I've uploaded a drawing of this bracket from the 1922 CBC:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/files/Air%20hoses%20%26%20Anglecock%20Brackets/Cast%20Bracket.jpg

Also a drawing of a bracket used to hange the brake pipe from a wood end sill on earlier cars:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/files/Air%20hoses%20%26%20Anglecock%20Brackets/Wood-End-Sill-Bracket.jpg

Dennis
Re: Help identifying LV hopper

ed_mines
 

--- In STMFC@..., Marty McGuirk <mjmcguirk@...> wrote:
Can anyone familiar with LV's hopper car fleet look at the car partially shown in this photo
Ben Hom is correct. The car is one of the 6 ribbed, 2 bay hoppers rebuilt from quad hoppers. There's a good photo of one of these cars in the NMRA Culotta-Kline book. There's also a description of the rebuilding in one of the trade magazines - maybe RME (Railway Mechanical Engineer?). There was a drawing of the quad cars in one of the Car Builders Cyclopedias, probably 1925 and/or '28.

Hobbyline and Lionel offered HO scale models of these quad hoppers.

Rivet counters may think this is heracy but I think you could build a layout worthy, stand in model using styrene.

The 6 ribs certainly stands out when the standard 2 bay hopper has 7 (both USRA & most Bethlehem, fishbelly hoppers had 7).

Some other other cars which break the 7 rib rule are CNJ (8), B&O (9), Lackawanna (9) and RDG (9).

Northeast steam era trains with hoppers from a lot of different railroads certainly show a lot of variations.

Ed Mines
Re: Air Hoses

Eric Hansmann
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:

The old Kadee bracket (which does have the offset angle) seems to be much more rare on prototype cars.
=======================


I was reviewing the RPCyc articles on the USRA SS and DS box cars a while back and focused on the end details. The DS cars are featured in RPCyc Volume 16, while the SS cars are in Volume 17.

RPCyc Volume 16, page 19 features a full page end view of a DS car, CB&Q 120500.

RPCyc Volume 17, page 27 features a full page end view of a SS car, NYP&N 3111.

These views offer a good look at hardware mounted on the car end. The air hose brackets are easy to see. While not exact, there is a similarity to the Kadee bracket.

I have not examined end images of the USRA composite gondola or twin hopper yet to see if a similar bracket was used.

Eric


Eric Hansmann
Chagrin Falls, Ohio
Starting over in a new home:
http://designbuildop.hansmanns.org/
Re: Old PFE Reefer

Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

The one I did was .005 styrene and decal. Once applied to the car it was over sprayed. At the time digital cameras and photo paper was not available. I would try plan C today.

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS
Re: Air Hoses

soolinehistory <destorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., cobrapsl@... wrote:


Come on Dennis, lightened up! A year ago we had NO bracket castings and all the air hoses on the market would snap off when hit, including the brass ones. A most distrubing issue for those of us really trying to model prototypical freight cars. I find it hard to believe that the hose angle not being prototypical correct in the bracket really bothers you that much, when cast on grab irons do not. I know, I know, that is a commercial business decision--who knows this might be the same.
Hey, I'm not complaining, just stating a fact. I'm sure it was a business decision... making a one piece part with the correct geometry would have been waaaay more expensive, so the part that was made serves the crowd that is happy to have a representation of a detail, even if it's not 100% correct, kinda like molded on grabs :-)

To Hi-Tech's credit, they also made the unadorned hose, and then went the extra mile and made a separate bracket so you can actually use it. No problem that they make the fancy forged bracket; PSC already makes the strap steel one. I was just pointing out that there is a reason why Hi-Tech makes the style with the separate bracket beyond the fact that the bracket is brass; it can also be mounted correctly.

Dennis
Re: Old PFE Reefer

Bruce Smith
 

On Jan 28, 2010, at 9:15 PM, finkfam98055 wrote:


I thought some of you might like to see a photo (link below) of a PFE
wood reefer with its original enameled emblem in 1948. As Tony Thompson
wrote in his PFE book (co-authored by Church and Jones), there was an
effort to replace them with stenciled paint in the late 1930s because
they "had a distressing tendency to fall off in transit." Combined with
the fact that there was an emphasis on car repainting after WWII, the
fact that this one managed to slip through was a bit of an oddity. The
presence of the emblem (and poor paint condition) implies to me that
this particular car had not been repainted in close to 20 years. The
subject location is the Blue Mountains in Eastern Oregon on the U. P.,
Sept. 20, 1948.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/photos/album/1210557054/pic/ 13977043&#92;
27/view?picmode=original&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/photos/album/1210557054/pic/ 1397704&#92;
327/view?picmode=original&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc>

Larry Fink
Larry,

While the photo has yet to clear moderation... I have been planning on modeling a car with applied enameled emblems. Originally, I was going to cut the emblem backgrounds out of 0.010" styrene and then apply decals to them. Plan B was to apply the decals to the styrene and THEN cut out the emblems. Plan C, is to print the emblems on photo paper and then cut them out and apply the photo paper to the car. I might even be able to add the small attachment points using photoshop, although alternatively I have thought about using 0.008" wire...

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
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Re: Help identifying LV hopper

Marty McGuirk
 

Thanks for the input guys. I had picked up a Stewart 55-ton "Fishbelly" lettered for LV in the hope of using it as a "stand in" for a shot of a modeled version of the train - obviously that rapidly devolved into "Plan C."



Now I have two things to look for at Timonium - one of the Hobbyline hoppers and a better photo of the car from Bob L's tables.



Marty

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich C" <rhcdmc@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 9:07:46 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Help identifying LV hopper

 




Great catch, Ben. By coincidence I picked up 2 Lionel cars that are basically the same thing as the Hobbyline on eBay recently. 1 actually is for the LV quad, the other for the covered hopper kitbash! Guess I should look for another for the twin kitbash!
 
Rich Christie

--- On Fri, 1/29/10, Benjamin Hom < b.hom@... > wrote:

From: Benjamin Hom < b.hom@... >
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Help identifying LV hopper
To: STMFC@...
Date: Friday, January 29, 2010, 7:13 AM

 

Marty McGuirk asked:
"Can anyone familiar with LV's hopper car fleet look at the car partially shown in this photo:
http://martymcguirk .com/BlogPosts/ Post_2009- 7-22.asp
and identify the type and number series of the LV hopper?

Ideally, I'd like an idea of how to model it."

Rich Christie replied:
"Unfortunately like you said that photo is "partial". Here is a link though to LV modeling and prototype info, hope this helps somewhat:
http://www.anthraci terailroads. org/lvrrmodeler/ hoppers.htm

Partial, yes, but enough to identify the car. LV 42000-42950, rebuilt from earlier quad hoppers modeled in HO by HObbyline. The giveaway is the wide center panel of the car. To model the car, you can duplicate what the LV did and cut down a HObbyline quad. There is a double row of vertical rivets in the center panel that needs to be added.

The LV reference is a nice start, but can use some fleshing out. For example, it misses the fact that LV 40000-40999 can also be modeled from the HObbyline kit.

Ben Hom

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Help identifying LV hopper

Rich C
 

Great catch, Ben. By coincidence I picked up 2 Lionel cars that are basically the same thing as the Hobbyline on eBay recently. 1 actually is for the LV quad, the other for the covered hopper kitbash! Guess I should look for another for the twin kitbash!
 
Rich Christie

--- On Fri, 1/29/10, Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...> wrote:


From: Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...>
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Help identifying LV hopper
To: STMFC@...
Date: Friday, January 29, 2010, 7:13 AM


 



Marty McGuirk asked:
"Can anyone familiar with LV's hopper car fleet look at the car partially shown in this photo:
http://martymcguirk .com/BlogPosts/ Post_2009- 7-22.asp
and identify the type and number series of the LV hopper?

Ideally, I'd like an idea of how to model it."

Rich Christie replied:
"Unfortunately like you said that photo is "partial". Here is a link though to LV modeling and prototype info, hope this helps somewhat:
http://www.anthraci terailroads. org/lvrrmodeler/ hoppers.htm

Partial, yes, but enough to identify the car. LV 42000-42950, rebuilt from earlier quad hoppers modeled in HO by HObbyline. The giveaway is the wide center panel of the car. To model the car, you can duplicate what the LV did and cut down a HObbyline quad. There is a double row of vertical rivets in the center panel that needs to be added.

The LV reference is a nice start, but can use some fleshing out. For example, it misses the fact that LV 40000-40999 can also be modeled from the HObbyline kit.

Ben Hom











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: L&N SS boxcar

jerryglow2
 

Thanks. I didn't get that one but think my friend did. All I need is a quick look for decal placement.

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@..., "al_brown03" <abrown@...> wrote:

There's a partial photo of L&N 13469 in Watson and Wagner, "Emil Albrecht's Union Pacific Small Steam Power", p79. The "small" locomotive in the picture is a 2-10-2!

There's a builder's photo of L&N 13499 in Mainline Modeler 8/86, p37. The same shot appears, printed larger, in RP CYC 18, p33.

Also in RP CYC 18, p34, is an in-service photo of L&N 12580. This photo appears, printed larger, in Culotta, "Steam Era Freight Cars Reference Manual, vol 1", p56.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.


--- In STMFC@..., jerryglow@ wrote:

Does any have or can point me to a photo of an L&N 12000-13499 series SS boxcar? I have TS#3 with an apparant builder photo with early style lettering but am looking for one appropriate for 50s era to do an F&C kit recently purchased.

Jerry Glow
Re: Help identifying LV hopper

Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...>
 

Marty McGuirk asked:
"Can anyone familiar with LV's hopper car fleet look at the car partially shown in this photo:
http://martymcguirk.com/BlogPosts/Post_2009-7-22.asp
and identify the type and number series of the LV hopper?

Ideally, I'd like an idea of how to model it."

Rich Christie replied:
"Unfortunately like you said that photo is "partial". Here is a link though to LV modeling and prototype info, hope this helps somewhat:
http://www.anthraciterailroads.org/lvrrmodeler/hoppers.htm

Partial, yes, but enough to identify the car. LV 42000-42950, rebuilt from earlier quad hoppers modeled in HO by HObbyline. The giveaway is the wide center panel of the car. To model the car, you can duplicate what the LV did and cut down a HObbyline quad. There is a double row of vertical rivets in the center panel that needs to be added.

The LV reference is a nice start, but can use some fleshing out. For example, it misses the fact that LV 40000-40999 can also be modeled from the HObbyline kit.


Ben Hom
Re: Help identifying LV hopper

Rich C
 

Marty,
         Unfortunately like you said that photo is "partial". Here is a link though to LV modeling and prototype info, hope this helps somewhat:
 
http://www.anthraciterailroads.org/lvrrmodeler/hoppers.htm
 
Rich Christie

--- On Fri, 1/29/10, Marty McGuirk <mjmcguirk@...> wrote:


From: Marty McGuirk <mjmcguirk@...>
Subject: [STMFC] Help identifying LV hopper
To: "STMFC" <STMFC@...>
Date: Friday, January 29, 2010, 6:19 AM


 





Can anyone familiar with LV's hopper car fleet look at the car partially shown in this photo:

http://martymcguirk .com/BlogPosts/ Post_2009- 7-22.asp

and identify the type and number series of the LV hopper?

Ideally, I'd like an idea of how to model it.

Thanks in advance.

Marty

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Help identifying LV hopper

Marty McGuirk
 

Can anyone familiar with LV's hopper car fleet look at the car partially shown in this photo:



http://martymcguirk.com/BlogPosts/Post_2009-7-22.asp



and identify the type and number series of the LV hopper?



Ideally, I'd like an idea of how to model it.



Thanks in advance.



Marty
Re: Michigan freight cars

al_brown03
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Frank Valoczy" <destron@...> wrote:


First a yes/no question:

D&TS 1000-1299 series hoppers - USRA?
Yes. See Lane, MM 3/82 pp 20-27 (table on p 21).


And: can anyone give any leads for these?

Delray Connecting 3001-3052, 4027-4032 (hoppers)
Port Huron & Detroit 1001-1005, 1006-1522 (XM)
PH&D 1006-1522 were Mather boxcars. There's a photo of PH&D 1275 in Culotta, FCRM 1, p 74; see also discussions in Model Railroading 11/87, p 12, and RMC 2/91, pp 85-89.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.


Wyandotte Terminal 38, 80-84 (XMs); 917-966 (HM); 967-986 (GB)
Escanaba & Lake Superior 2002-2010 (XM)
Manistique & Lake Superior 50-52 (XM), 25000-25024 (FM)
Erie & Michigan 1101-1103 (LO), 1201-1205 (GB)

Thanks,

Frank Valoczy
Vancouver, BC
Re: L&N SS boxcar

al_brown03
 

There's a partial photo of L&N 13469 in Watson and Wagner, "Emil Albrecht's Union Pacific Small Steam Power", p79. The "small" locomotive in the picture is a 2-10-2!

There's a builder's photo of L&N 13499 in Mainline Modeler 8/86, p37. The same shot appears, printed larger, in RP CYC 18, p33.

Also in RP CYC 18, p34, is an in-service photo of L&N 12580. This photo appears, printed larger, in Culotta, "Steam Era Freight Cars Reference Manual, vol 1", p56.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

--- In STMFC@..., jerryglow@... wrote:

Does any have or can point me to a photo of an L&N 12000-13499 series SS boxcar? I have TS#3 with an apparant builder photo with early style lettering but am looking for one appropriate for 50s era to do an F&C kit recently purchased.

Jerry Glow
Re: Air Hoses

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Paul, to be prototypically correct, should not these hoses be connected to each other when cars are coupled to each other.
Only if the train line carries air. <g>

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history
Old PFE Reefer

Larry Fink
 

I thought some of you might like to see a photo (link below) of a PFE
wood reefer with its original enameled emblem in 1948. As Tony Thompson
wrote in his PFE book (co-authored by Church and Jones), there was an
effort to replace them with stenciled paint in the late 1930s because
they "had a distressing tendency to fall off in transit." Combined with
the fact that there was an emphasis on car repainting after WWII, the
fact that this one managed to slip through was a bit of an oddity. The
presence of the emblem (and poor paint condition) implies to me that
this particular car had not been repainted in close to 20 years. The
subject location is the Blue Mountains in Eastern Oregon on the U. P.,
Sept. 20, 1948.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/photos/album/1210557054/pic/13977043\;
27/view?picmode=original&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/photos/album/1210557054/pic/1397704\;
327/view?picmode=original&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc>

Larry Fink
Re: Air Hoses

Gene <bierglaeser@...>
 

The correct angle is 30 degrees.
Gene Green

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

The angle appears to be about 15-20 degrees, is that right?

The style of bracket looks exactly like the Branchline airhoses
in their Blueprint series kits, and I'm pretty sure those also
are not angled. I'm not sure you'd really want the angle unless
you cut off the Kadee trip pins.

I have photos of B&O M-26a & M-26d with this type of bracket. The
old Kadee bracket (which does have the offset angle) seems to be
much more rare on prototype cars.

Tim O'Connor


At 1/28/2010 10:13 AM Thursday, you wrote:
Dennis, the hoses are positionable in the set with the brass hangers and eyelets. How widely used was the style of hanger HTD modeled? It looks like a forged piece - very nicely done - but was that more common than than ones made of bent flat plate?

(It does seem silly to be quibbling over differences that can barely be seen without magnification!)

Tom Madden
Re: Air Hoses

Bill Welch
 

Paul, to be prototypically correct, should not these hoses be connected to each other when cars are coupled to each other?

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@..., cobrapsl@... wrote:


Come on Dennis, lightened up! A year ago we had NO bracket castings and all the air hoses on the market would snap off when hit, including the brass ones. A most distrubing issue for those of us really trying to model prototypical freight cars. I find it hard to believe that the hose angle not being prototypical correct in the bracket really bothers you that much, when cast on grab irons do not. I know, I know, that is a commercial business decision--who knows this might be the same. The point of my original post was that we should be thankful that a manufacturer is willing to go back and correct an obvious error after it was pointed out by a member of this list. That to me, shows a commitment to want to get it right. and help advance the hobby. Maybe they did not get it it perfect, few of us ever do, but it is far better than what we had, which was exactly NOTHING!

I have no commercial interest in this project!

Paul Lyons
Laguna Niguel, CA






-----Original Message-----
From: soolinehistory <destorzek@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thu, Jan 28, 2010 9:36 am
Subject: [STMFC] Re:Air Hoses






--- In STMFC@..., "pullmanboss" <tgmadden@> wrote:

Dennis, the hoses are positionable in the set with the brass hangers and eyelets. How widely used was the style of hanger HTD modeled? It looks like a forged piece - very nicely done - but was that more common than than ones made of bent flat plate?

(It does seem silly to be quibbling over differences that can barely be seen without magnification!)

Tom Madden
Tom,

So I see... it took about three minutes on a DSL connection for the animation to get to that point. Maybe someone should clue him in to show the correct arrangement in the lead-in graphic?

I don't know what he used for a prototype for the forging... my vote is flat plate is more common.

Dennis







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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