Date   

B&O M-55H

Mark
 

One of my projects the B&O M-55H boxcar, available in resin(Sunshine)but mine is styrene.

Started with a Branchline Yardmaster undec. kit#8000. Ends for the car are from Intermountain 12 panel kit# 41099.

The ends need half of the back sanded off to make them thin enough. These cars had duryea underframes. I have one photo of my work which will be in a M-55H folder.

Sincerely, Mark Morgan


Re: Hoppers, ca. 1950

Tim O'Connor
 

WM, CNJ, B&O (lease from CNJ) -- see RMJ 8/1992

What I didn't see mentioned regading styrene hoppers are the Stewart Fishbelly hoppers. Are they so poorly done that there is no prototype for them? I thought they were WM Prototypes? What's the deal?

Greg Martin


Re: wine door locks (was Re: Hoppers, ca. 1950)

Tim O'Connor
 

Thanks Dennis. I really wish there were a Youtube video that
showed me the wine door lock in action -- I'm not mechanically
inclined and frankly how the thing works is a mystery to me!

Tim O'Connor

But the hardware evolved. In the illustrations published in 1922. there are no baring loops; indeed, I have no idea how one was supposed to force a sprung door closed. Score one for Enterprise. By WWII the lock casting had grown a rib on its outer face that became a cast loop, and there were special castings to be fitted to the ends of the door beams that not only acted as the wear surface for the latch, but a surface to pry against while using the loop on the lock as a fulcrum.

I just quickly thumbed through the project files, but any detail photos I had have been returned. Likely the best published photos to illustrate this were the builder's photos that illustrated Ed Hawkins' articles on the 1935 AAR triple published in the Feb. and March 1995 Mainline Modeler. Hundman unfortunately does not include enough auxiliary views in his drawings to actually define the Wine locks.

Dennis


Re: Hoppers, ca. 1950

Roger Hinman <rhinman@...>
 

I just uploaded a detail photo I took of a Lackawanna car at Steamtown
last year; not sure if that's what you're looking for or not

Roger Hinman

On Jul 23, 2009, at 3:05 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

Dennis

Do you know of any really good published (or web) photos that
show Wine door locks and the door beams w/ prybar loop casting?
Part of the difficulty of modeling hoppers is a lack of good
detail photos...

Tim O'Connor

Westerfield's Wine locks are drop bottom gon locks, not hopper
locks, The look similar (better than nothing) but are not the same.
And, one still has to scratch build the door beams with the
characteristic casting for the prybar loop, used to lever the door
into locked position.
Dennis


Re: Hoppers, ca. 1950

ed_mines
 

--- In STMFC@..., someone wrote:
How many hoppers do Sunshine, Speedwitch, F&C and Westerfield do?
Now ask a group of resin builders how many hoppers they have built.....

Ask 'em how many resin hopper models they started and didn't finish.

In addition to the other plastic cars mentioned, the Stewart fishbelly hoppers and Bowser GLA hoppers don't look to bad after being spiffed up a little, at least from a distance.


Re: Hoppers, ca. 1950

Greg Martin
 

What I didn't see mentioned regading styrene hoppers are the Stewart Fishbelly hoppers. Are they so poorly done that there is no prototype for them? I thought they were WM Prototypes? What's the deal?

Greg Martin


Re: Hoppers, ca. 1950

Mark
 

Dennis and Tim, I have seen a photo of someone using a bar to pry hopper doors open. I believe it was from the B&ORRHS Sentinel or photos online of the B&O museum at Baltimore.

Mark Morgan

--- On Thu, 7/23/09, Dennis Storzek <destorzek@...> wrote:

From: Dennis Storzek <destorzek@...>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Hoppers, ca. 1950
To: STMFC@...
Date: Thursday, July 23, 2009, 5:21 PM






 





--- In STMFC@yahoogroups. com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@ ...> wrote:

Dennis
Do you know of any really good published (or web) photos that
show Wine door locks and the door beams w/ prybar loop casting?
Part of the difficulty of modeling hoppers is a lack of good
detail photos...
Tim O'Connor


No I don't Tim. They are well illustrated with drawings in the 1940 CBC, and just about every Car & Loco Cyc. thereafter into the sixties.



I just looked back in the 1922 CBC to see if there were any public domain illustrations I could upload, and made a surprising discovery; at that point in time Wine was showing the same piece of hardware used in hopper, flat bottom hopper, and gondola applications. So, at that point in time the locks Westerfield makes were correct for hoppers.



But the hardware evolved. In the illustrations published in 1922. there are no baring loops; indeed, I have no idea how one was supposed to force a sprung door closed. Score one for Enterprise. By WWII the lock casting had grown a rib on its outer face that became a cast loop, and there were special castings to be fitted to the ends of the door beams that not only acted as the wear surface for the latch, but a surface to pry against while using the loop on the lock as a fulcrum.



I just quickly thumbed through the project files, but any detail photos I had have been returned. Likely the best published photos to illustrate this were the builder's photos that illustrated Ed Hawkins' articles on the 1935 AAR triple published in the Feb. and March 1995 Mainline Modeler. Hundman unfortunately does not include enough auxiliary views in his drawings to actually define the Wine locks.



Dennis































[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Hoppers, ca. 1950

Dennis Storzek <destorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Dennis

Do you know of any really good published (or web) photos that
show Wine door locks and the door beams w/ prybar loop casting?
Part of the difficulty of modeling hoppers is a lack of good
detail photos...

Tim O'Connor
No I don't Tim. They are well illustrated with drawings in the 1940 CBC, and just about every Car & Loco Cyc. thereafter into the sixties.

I just looked back in the 1922 CBC to see if there were any public domain illustrations I could upload, and made a surprising discovery; at that point in time Wine was showing the same piece of hardware used in hopper, flat bottom hopper, and gondola applications. So, at that point in time the locks Westerfield makes were correct for hoppers.

But the hardware evolved. In the illustrations published in 1922. there are no baring loops; indeed, I have no idea how one was supposed to force a sprung door closed. Score one for Enterprise. By WWII the lock casting had grown a rib on its outer face that became a cast loop, and there were special castings to be fitted to the ends of the door beams that not only acted as the wear surface for the latch, but a surface to pry against while using the loop on the lock as a fulcrum.

I just quickly thumbed through the project files, but any detail photos I had have been returned. Likely the best published photos to illustrate this were the builder's photos that illustrated Ed Hawkins' articles on the 1935 AAR triple published in the Feb. and March 1995 Mainline Modeler. Hundman unfortunately does not include enough auxiliary views in his drawings to actually define the Wine locks.

Dennis


Re: ERIE PS-1's (was Erie class 20-B)

Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

The Erie liked to renumber their cars when modified for specific shippers
and service. I started tracking Erie steel boxcars from the 30's thru the
50's but stopped after I discovered all these little groups of boxcars
outside of the original number series. Often they would appear and change
numbers over time. It was next to impossible to track an original series
from building to 1959 my cut-off. Maybe the ELHS has documentation of the
why's and wherefor's for the various assignments but I have never found
anything.
Brian Carlson

On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 16:50:38 -0400, Tim O'Connor wrote


The 1965 ORER shows 84300-84329, 84440-84475, 84480-84485
with the doorway bars and crossbars. I wonder what it was
for?


Re: Hoppers, ca. 1950

Bruce Smith
 

On Jul 23, 2009, at 10:08 AM, Dave Nelson wrote:

I see. Well, I'm approaching the whole topic of STMFC these days more from
the perspective of a historian and less so as a fan of one or two roads. So
perhaps I should have asked: What models are (very) accurate representations
of hoppers for your region/railroad of interest, ca. 1950?
Dave,

For the PRR

1939 1949 HO Models
GLA 25274 25500 Bowser, Westerfield
GLC 12463 Westerfield
GLCA 8242 Westerfield, F&C
H21A 36313 39622 Bowser, Westerfield
H22A 3227 Bowser
H25 5269 5220 F&C

The Bowser models all have issues ranging from the top chord on some H21 models to simply awful door locks on the GLA and of course the molded on grabs etc of 1960s technology. These can be rebuilt into very nice models with some work. The Westerfield GLA, H21A, GLC/GLCA and H21As are all works of art, but build into light cars that can be delicate. The new F&C models are also pretty nice from what I can see, although they have the typically sparse instructions and occasional short-cuts in detail.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0


Re: ERIE PS-1's (was Erie class 20-B)

Tim O'Connor
 

Thanks Ed. Yes, all the photos are post-1960, but all of them
are in Erie lettering and don't appear to be patched at all,
so they either renumbered them very carefully matching the
original paint, or simply repainted the whole car. The 84309
photo is from 1980 but the paint & lettering show very little
weathering or fading.

The 1965 ORER shows 84300-84329, 84440-84475, 84480-84485
with the doorway bars and crossbars. I wonder what it was
for?

Tim O'Connor


----------------------------------------------------------

Yet I have scans of ERIE 84309, 84464, 84467 which are
all obviously PS-1 box cars. Anyone have the builder data
and series for these?
Tim,
I believe the cars mentioned were renumbered from the original series
86500-86989. In 1/59 there were 430 cars in the series, which leaves 60
cars (or slightly less if some had been lost through attrition) that
were renumbered. In the 1/59 ORER there are several small groups of
cars including 84440-84473, which contains two of the three cars you
mention. A later ORER has a note stating the cars were equipped with
doorway bars and crossbars. The 84309 renumbering must have been
sometime after 1/59.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


MILW 13500 - 13999 50' DD Boxcar Brake Layout

thomas christensen
 

Group,
I have started building Sunshine's 41.5 MILW 50' DD boxcar. The instructions are rehashed from their 40' cars. They show all the brake gear components on the left side of the car, with the brake cylinder centered.
But....looking at photos in the RP CYC 13 and the Milwaukee Color Guide Vol.2, things appear different.
On page 8 of the RP CYC 13 there are 2 photos, 13500 and 13631, showing the left side of the cars with the brake cylinder and reservoir appearing to be on the near side while brake valve appears to be on the far side.
On page 9 of the RP CYC 13 there are 2 photos, 13944 and 13636, showing the right side of the cars and the brake valve is clearly on the near side under the right end of the side sill fishbelly.
The Color Guide Vol.2 has similar views on pages 31 and 32.
So what is the correct brake layout for this series cars?
TIA,
Tom Christensen


Re: Hoppers on the MP

Bruce Smith
 

On Jul 23, 2009, at 12:50 PM, Thomas Stephens wrote:
Also, what is the "RPI site"?
Thomas,

The RPI site is the Rensselaer Railroad Heritage Website at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, run by John Nehrich.
http://railroad.union.rpi.edu/

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0


Re: Hoppers, ca. 1950

Armand Premo
 

For an average of $40 per copy and the number I need makes it less desirable.I have several flat cast cars that went together just fine.A few didn't.Westerfield's H21s and GLas,F&C's C NJ and Reading hoppers are rather nice.The D&H hoppers should be redone in styrene.Quess the major problem is there is a need for a greater variety at a reasonable price.Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: Gatwood, Elden J SAD
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 2:43 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Hoppers, ca. 1950


Tim;

Al does have more than everyone else, but F&C is starting to offer some VERY
nice one-piece open hoppers, for our era. I need to give credit where credit
is due.

I am also hard on models because I have to travel with them, and after having
a Westerfield H21 get completely destroyed, I have fallen back on just
quivering in fear of building my next accurate car. In lieu of having the
guts, I have resorted to those Kadee I cars I find plausible for my area,
plus one or two brass cars, plus some plastic kitbashes (although I
thoroughly hate carving off grabs).

What I continue to marvel at is the reality of state-of-the-art open top
hoppers being ignored by the vast majority - community of us modelers (which
leads to no sales, and therefore, no manufacturer interest), and the
resultant lack of state-of-the-art plastic open top hoppers for us to
purchase.

Don't get me started about the AAR alternate standard twin! Grrr!

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Tim
O'Connor
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 2:32 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Hoppers, ca. 1950

Elden

I think Al Westerfield has put out more hoppers than all of the rest of them
combined... But you're right, the kits are hard to build, light, easily
broken -- not something you want to have by the HUNDREDS (as my WV/VA coal
hauling club layout has). The NSMRC club has over 100 Accurail cars, a few
hundred Athearns, scores of miscellaneous plastic hoppers and one or two
resin cars built by Andy Miller. There might be a Kadee car or two as well.
Clubs (members) are really tough on models.

Tim O'Connor

------------------------------------------------
BTW, if you look at the resin offerings, you will note the same avoidance of
hoppers. How many hoppers do Sunshine, Speedwitch, F&C and Westerfield do?
Now ask a group of resin builders how many hoppers they have built.....
Elden






------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.17/2242 - Release Date: 07/16/09 18:00:00


Re: ERIE PS-1's (was Erie class 20-B)

Ed Hawkins
 

On Jul 23, 2009, at 1:08 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

From Ed Hawkins' spreadsheet I only have:

ERIE series 84000-84009 blt 1954 PS 8' 6p SUP lot 8160x
ERIE series 86500-86989 blt 1954 PS 7' IY

Yet I have scans of ERIE 84309, 84464, 84467 which are
all obviously PS-1 box cars. Anyone have the builder data
and series for these?
Tim,
I believe the cars mentioned were renumbered from the original series
86500-86989. In 1/59 there were 430 cars in the series, which leaves 60
cars (or slightly less if some had been lost through attrition) that
were renumbered. In the 1/59 ORER there are several small groups of
cars including 84440-84473, which contains two of the three cars you
mention. A later ORER has a note stating the cars were equipped with
doorway bars and crossbars. The 84309 renumbering must have been
sometime after 1/59.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: Hoppers, ca. 1950

Jeff Coleman
 

There may be one or more good photos of Wine door locks in Train Shed Cyclopedia #48.
Jeff Coleman

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Dennis

Do you know of any really good published (or web) photos that
show Wine door locks and the door beams w/ prybar loop casting?
Part of the difficulty of modeling hoppers is a lack of good
detail photos...

Tim O'Connor


Westerfield's Wine locks are drop bottom gon locks, not hopper locks, The look similar (better than nothing) but are not the same. And, one still has to scratch build the door beams with the characteristic casting for the prybar loop, used to lever the door into locked position.
Dennis


Re: Hoppers, ca. 1950

Tim O'Connor
 

Dennis

Do you know of any really good published (or web) photos that
show Wine door locks and the door beams w/ prybar loop casting?
Part of the difficulty of modeling hoppers is a lack of good
detail photos...

Tim O'Connor

Westerfield's Wine locks are drop bottom gon locks, not hopper locks, The look similar (better than nothing) but are not the same. And, one still has to scratch build the door beams with the characteristic casting for the prybar loop, used to lever the door into locked position.
Dennis


Re: Hoppers, ca. 1950

sparachuk <sparachuk@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Dennis Storzek" <destorzek@...> wrote:
There is also a total lack of after market detail parts for door latches.

Dennis
Dennis: Is there some reason you don't mention the Wine Door locks offered by Westerfield? They are Part Number 1171.

Stephan Parachuk
Toronto


Re: Hoppers, ca. 1950

Dennis Storzek <destorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Dennis

The selection is not good, but I have several packs of Westerfield
Wine door locks, and Tichy used to sell whole sprues from its USRA
hopper kit which have very finely detailed Enterprise door mechanisms.
But if modelers ever needed a cheap and plentiful detail item, it
would be cross hopper door/mechanism details!

Tim O'Connor
Westerfield's Wine locks are drop bottom gon locks, not hopper locks, The look similar (better than nothing) but are not the same. And, one still has to scratch build the door beams with the characteristic casting for the prybar loop, used to lever the door into locked position.

Dennis


Re: Hoppers, ca. 1950

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Tim;

Al does have more than everyone else, but F&C is starting to offer some VERY
nice one-piece open hoppers, for our era. I need to give credit where credit
is due.

I am also hard on models because I have to travel with them, and after having
a Westerfield H21 get completely destroyed, I have fallen back on just
quivering in fear of building my next accurate car. In lieu of having the
guts, I have resorted to those Kadee I cars I find plausible for my area,
plus one or two brass cars, plus some plastic kitbashes (although I
thoroughly hate carving off grabs).

What I continue to marvel at is the reality of state-of-the-art open top
hoppers being ignored by the vast majority - community of us modelers (which
leads to no sales, and therefore, no manufacturer interest), and the
resultant lack of state-of-the-art plastic open top hoppers for us to
purchase.

Don't get me started about the AAR alternate standard twin! Grrr!

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Tim
O'Connor
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 2:32 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Hoppers, ca. 1950



Elden

I think Al Westerfield has put out more hoppers than all of the rest of them
combined... But you're right, the kits are hard to build, light, easily
broken -- not something you want to have by the HUNDREDS (as my WV/VA coal
hauling club layout has). The NSMRC club has over 100 Accurail cars, a few
hundred Athearns, scores of miscellaneous plastic hoppers and one or two
resin cars built by Andy Miller. There might be a Kadee car or two as well.
Clubs (members) are really tough on models.

Tim O'Connor

------------------------------------------------
BTW, if you look at the resin offerings, you will note the same avoidance of
hoppers. How many hoppers do Sunshine, Speedwitch, F&C and Westerfield do?
Now ask a group of resin builders how many hoppers they have built.....
Elden

111081 - 111100 of 194711