I operated on a layout once where each waybill was numbered hold for one, two or three days for unloading. When the car reached its destination, the industry had card boxes labelled one, two or three days hold time. The card was placed in the appropriate numbered box and moved up one box each operating session until the final box was reached and the car was picked up. Note that the car cards, obviously, were not so labelled as they might be used for different lading, different restinations and different hold times next go round. This might solve some of your problems.


Jim Pickett

--- In STMFC@..., "Darrall Swift" <doswift@...> wrote:

Greetings All,

I recently built a F&C 1938 PS-0 Boxcar and intend to paint and letter it for the Nickel Plate. But I cannot find any reference photos online to use as a guide. I would like to paint the car as it would have appeared in the late 1950's, but would like to know if these cars remained boxcar red throughout their careers? Or at some point...Did they receive black ends? Does anyone have a recomendation for a specific boxcar red to use for the Nickel Plate?

Thanks,

Darrall Swift

Darrall: Here's a colour shot, maybe late in life.
http://railroad.union.rpi.edu/displayimage.php?i=21254

Stephan Parachuk
Toronto

Rich

Yes there is:

southern_railway@...?

Mike Wilson
Terre Haute, IN
?

On Jun 8, 2009, at 5:01 PM, Darrall Swift wrote:

Greetings All,

I recently built a F&C 1938 PS-0 Boxcar and intend to paint and
letter it for the Nickel Plate. But I cannot find any reference
photos online to use as a guide. I would like to paint the car as
it would have appeared in the late 1950's, but would like to know
if these cars remained boxcar red throughout their careers? Or at
some point...Did they receive black ends? Does anyone have a
recomendation for a specific boxcar red to use for the Nickel Plate?

I have a photo of one taken in October, 1956 and will send you a scan
off-list. At that time the ends (and presumably the roof as well)
were black. I'll let someone who models the NKP suggest a suitable
mineral red color for the sides.

Richard Hendrickson

Hi Gang,
Is there a Southern Railroad yahoo group?
Sincerely, Rich Yoder

Greetings All,

I recently built a F&C 1938 PS-0 Boxcar and intend to paint and letter it for the Nickel Plate. But I cannot find any reference photos online to use as a guide. I would like to paint the car as it would have appeared in the late 1950's, but would like to know if these cars remained boxcar red throughout their careers? Or at some point...Did they receive black ends? Does anyone have a recomendation for a specific boxcar red to use for the Nickel Plate?

Thanks,

Darrall Swift

John,

         I thank thee for clearing it up, finally!

Fred Freitas




________________________________
From: John Stokes <ggstokes@...>
To: stmfc@...
Sent: Monday, June 8, 2009 11:46:55 AM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Surplus wheel sets






Fred, not what you asked the first time, hence the comments about pointy axles. With this new information should be a piece of cake and the gentleman will have his wheel sets. The reference to Tichy should be a good bet for accurate looking wheels for this project.

For Dennis, check out some pictures or drawings of real axles, the ends ride in bearings that that fit around the end of the axle just as with an automobile, and the bearing surface is parallel. Like a stick in a doughnut. Pointed ends would not sustain the weight of the car. They are cheaper to make for models and do the job reasonably well given the light weight involved.

John Stokes
Bellevue, WA

To: STMFC@yahoogroups. com
From: prrinvt@yahoo. com
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 07:35:45 -0700
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Surplus wheel sets

Guyz,

The gentleman asked for the wheels sets to remove the wheels and toss the axles

He is finishing a project and needed a few dozen more individual wheels.

Fred Freitas

____________ _________ _________ __

From: Denis F. Blake <dblake7@columbus. rr.com>

To: STMFC@yahoogroups. com

Sent: Monday, June 8, 2009 1:32:17 AM

Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Surplus wheel sets

What do you say...no pointed axles? How in the heck did they roll then?

Inquiring minds have to know.

Denis Blake

North Hamlet Shops, OH

----- Original Message -----

From: "bill_d_goat" <billdgoat@bellsout h .net>

To: <STMFC@yahoogroups. com>

Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 1:24 AM

Subject: [STMFC] Re: Surplus wheel sets

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups. com, "Fred Freitas" <prrinvt@... > wrote:

List,

A fellow listr asked for surplus wheel sets in plastic on metal

axles to finish a gond load of wheels. I must humbly admit to loosing the

requesters address "somewhere" in the paper pile on my desk. Please

contact me off list as I will be happy to ship the now packed box of

items.

Fred Freitas

Bennington, VT

Keep in mind that real wheel sets did not have pointed axle ends like our

models. Thus a gon load or engine facility scene will not look

prototypical.

Bill Williams

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Yahoo! Groups Links

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05:53:00


















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tom Madden wrote:

<snip> I don't have a layout but occasionally operate on the layouts of
friends. It's always bothered me that, at the end of a session, every
piece of rolling stock on the layout has been dealt with. Even cars that
are spotted where they were when the evening started had to be moved at
some point. No allowance for stored cars on the visible portion of the
layout.

I recall the article by Douglas Smith on card operation [The latest word
from Doug on card operations, Model Railroader, December 1961
<http://index.mrmag.com/tm.exe?opt=I&MAG=MR&MO=12&YR=1961&output=3&sort=\;
3> page 52] that the sequence was to leave a car stay in place at the
customer's spot for at least one sequence of the local freight passing
through a town with the sequence being drop-off, load or unload, and
then pick-up. No doubt methods to operate layouts are more complex
today, but this simple step to allow time for a car to be either loaded
or unloaded should be incorporated into any operating scheme.

Bob Witt
Indianapolis, Indiana

Well, the recent release of the F&C X26c cars somes to mind, but I forget what era you are modeling so that does make a differnce and of course Bruce Smith is having us upgrade the Bowser X31 cars to spec on the PRR-Pro list. We have also complete the Bowser F30 flatcar in the past (still in the files and archives). But don't forget the gondolas that are out there, the Bowser needs work but I know you like to fiddle so that is a fun project as well as the WKW gondola as well. I would avoid the Sunshine X29b as the door is the wrong size so it would be better reproduced from the Branchline kit or if you have in you hording of kits a C&BT Shops car would work as well, it is my preference because the floor is a separate part (toss the running board and ladders as well as other detail parts). Armand, I am only thinking of what I think would be common cars, in plastic or resin, trying to avoid uncommon cars as I don't really like modeling oddity.

Greg Martin

Armand;

We have a lot in common. I can't resist this one....

Being a lifelong hater of all other roads other than the PRR, I have
neglected to buy anything other than Pennsy rolling stock and engines.
Non-Standard Railroads? Sheesh. Round, fat, fireboxes; fat railfans,
humble, competent employees, black ink on accounting statements, tiny numbers
of everything, logical numbering, a lack of over-bearing dominance over
neighboring roads and on and on.

Well, my layout looks kinda funny. Nothing like the real thing. Where did
those other cars in photos come from? Where are they going? I just want
Pennsy freight cars to run around in circles. Reality is confusing!

I have also started, grudingly to buy non-Pennsy cars. The trouble is, they
have hyphens in the classes, where there are classes! And, what are these
Lot numbers? Or, how about these cars that change lot numbers and such.
What is up with that? What about railroads that have clases that don't agree
with those of the PRR I have memorized? Do I have to use them?

So, like a you-know-what in the elevator, I am asking, what are these cars,
and how many do I need?

Just in fun,

Elden Gatwood

In Valley, NE, the old UP stockyards had two tracks paralleling the loading chutes to the main barn that stretched for more than a mile in length. Out the outside track (away from the chutes) many stock cars were parked after they were unloaded. Depending upon the need for cars to continue the trip to the Omaha packing houses (about 25 miles to the east), a car(s) would be pulled out to be loaded. Many times that outside track was "stock" full (pardon the pun) of cars.

An overflow would often occur with the excess cars parked along double-ended spurs, east and one west of the stockyard siding. These spurs are still in existance and grain cars are occasionally parked ther.

Just a few miles west of Valley there is a siding at Mercer where bad-order cars, or MOW cars are frequently set out from the UP mainline. They will often set along the double-main for days or even weeks.

Jack Hanger
Fremont, NE

I had an epiphany when buying my first resin kit: a Westerfield USRA SS boxcar. I too was a Pennsy hater but in studying the numbers, had to admit Pennsy was the logical choice. That broke the barrier and I have built many Pennsy cars since esp owing to the fact it was a very noticeable interchange partner with my modeled Missouri Pacific.

Jerry Glow

Looked on their website this morning, to get the part numbers ... the wheel sets aren't listed under "freight car parts" but under "details". Not sure why: 'cuz they're non-operating, maybe?

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

On Jun 8, 2009, at 11:53 AM, Armand Premo wrote:

Being a lifelong Pennsy hater,I have neglected to buy Pennsy rolling
stock.The Standard Road,Sheez.Odd looking fireboxes,a numbering system that
defies logic,dominance over neighboring roads and on and on.Well like an
Elephant at the dining room table,one has to take notice.Realizing if I
wanted a realistic layout I had to have a preponderance of Pennsy
cars.Succumbing to the to the obvious I started grudingly buying Pennsy cars
:the X29.H21,and 22s,GLas,a variety of round roofed cars and a few resin
kits.There seems to be a few missing major classes.I need some guidance from
the SPFs;just what is out there that I may have missed or as
yet,unavailable?ArmandPremo......... Humbug.!

Armand,

What year? I wrote a piece in TKM (#42, Jan 2007) on the PRR fleet over time that might help. In addition, I have some tabular data that will give you the top 30 PRR car classes in a number of different years. With the advent of some new resin kits and some plastic (like the PRR K7a stock car), we're pretty darn close to having it covered.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0

Tichy does list them:


Part Number: 3010
Price: $9.50
Scale: HO
Description:
THESE ARE NON-OPERATING WHEELSETS INTENDED FOR USE IN FREIGHT CAR LOADS AND AROUND YARDS AND REPAIR SHOPS. THEY REPRESENT 33" CAST IRON WHEELS AND ARE INJECTION MOLDED IN RUST COLORED STYRENE. THEY HAVE FULL BACK SIDE RIBS, LETTERING, AND BEARING JOURNALS.
96 WHEELSETS

Hi,

Most of the time the runs I'm referring to -were- using car cards and
waybills. But the operators seem to always 'have' to work "every car in
town". Yes, I know about the 'number in the upper right corner' ... but
that doesn't seem to prevent an operator from working every car in town.
In addition - the waybill systems don't really support the topic of
"how long it takes to load a car at the industry after it is delivered"
topic. Conceptually this is 'easy' ... just have the way bill say 'don't
move this during this phase' ... and you could even have a way bill that
leaves a car for more than one phase. But the problem is that this will
quickly create a problem in terms of managing the waybills themselves.
I've actually tried this - and you end up having to figure out "which
waybills will be used for this session". An exercise that is very time
consuming, tedious - and quickly gets abandoned as "too much work".
Most layouts that I know of that are using the car cards and waybill
system don't actually use the number in the upper right corner to
decide if a car moves this time or not ... most of them just use it
to cause a particular card to 'rotate around the layout'. I'm not
saying this is "wrong" ... I'm just recognizing what a lot of layouts
are doing.

The layout I operate on the most has a large book of waybills - and
they are placed in the car cards for the run ... and it works ... with
the exception that if every car in town has a waybill (or not) then the
operator on the local in that town tends to think that he is supposed
to "work them all". My instructions (about 'how many cars to pick up'
etc.) are intended to make them think about that - and to not do it.
It fails pretty miserably ... even experienced operators will pick up
"everything in town".
One of you responded to this thread with "I'll take the local every
time if I can" (sic) ... and I understand this. And it is a very
common preference. And "kicking cars" is a lot of fun. And I enjoy it
just as much as you do. But the fact is that if you are trying to be
more prototypical in your ops sessions ... that working all of the
cars in town just doesn't simulate what really happens on the prototype.

I was also referring to the fact that many, many layout operating
schemes are set up so that too many cars are worked in any one session.
I go to runs many many times a year. About 15 to 20 different runs
a year - several of the layouts repeat in a year. And the thing is ...
the vast majority of them work way too many cars in any one town in any
one session for it to feel "prototypical" to me. I'm not saying it
isn't fun to take one of those jobs ... I'm saying it doesn't fit the
goal of "more prototypical ops". But maybe that is OK. Maybe an OP
would be 'less fun' if you ran it too much like a real RR.

**************

What I'd really like to see is the local jobs doing less on any one
visit ... but maybe have more than one local visit a town/location
during a session. That way each visit is more prototypical ... but you
still have lots of work for the operators to do. For instance, let's
say you have a 'town' that has 15 car spots at the various industries.
So if 'about a 1/3rd' of the spots are occupied at the start of the
session and if the first local to visit that town works 'about 3 cars
max' at that town ... and then later in the session a different local
(with, perhaps, a different operator) visits and works 'about 3 cars'
(but not the same ones) ... then each train would have a more
prototypical workload. And yes - I'm willing to live with the idea
that it would be highly unlikely that there would be more than one
visit to that town in the 'period' of the op session ... because

-to me-

this is the lesser of the two evils.
- Jim

Have you checked out http://prr.railfan.net/freight/index.html

Don Burn

Come on Tim...you know I am messing around here. Remember I an a locomotive engineer for NS....I do know how these things work.

Denis Blake
NHS, Ohio

Being a lifelong Pennsy hater,I have neglected to buy Pennsy rolling stock.The Standard Road,Sheez.Odd looking fireboxes,a numbering system that defies logic,dominance over neighboring roads and on and on.Well like an Elephant at the dining room table,one has to take notice.Realizing if I wanted a realistic layout I had to have a preponderance of Pennsy cars.Succumbing to the to the obvious I started grudingly buying Pennsy cars :the X29.H21,and 22s,GLas,a variety of round roofed cars and a few resin kits.There seems to be a few missing major classes.I need some guidance from the SPFs;just what is out there that I may have missed or as yet,unavailable?ArmandPremo......... Humbug.!

surely, thy jests.