Date   

Re: likeability bias in model freight car selection

Schuyler Larrabee
 

-----Original Message-----
From: James Mischke
I've noticed something about my growing freight car fleet.
Although I have researched appropriate B&O freight cars in
detail, found foreign freight cars and prototype ladings for my
B&O Pittsburgh theme, strove to keep lettering schemes simple
(freight cars became loud in the 1960's but not much before),
and found appropriate mixes of freight car types .....

.... I have discovered a bias in my stash. I like everything.
It is not acquired if I do not like it. For all practical
purposes, I am gardening. So my yard and trains have this
Better Homes and Gardens feel to them, a cultivated look, not
the grubby randomness of real yards. No surprises. No weeds.
No bad boys. Everything has a documented purpose, yet things
seem too orderly.

Jim, if it will help you feel better about this, I am >>certain<< that this list can help you out by
specifying a collection of Truly Uglee Cars you will be >>required<< to obtain. It would be best if
they are hard to come by so you would have to scratch-build them, so you would come to appreciate
their ugliness all the more. If it were not, I believe, era-inappropriate for you, I'd personally
nominate the box-on-flat-car sulphur cars used in Florida. As Tim said, membership in a club (even
a good one) can expose you to things you'd rather not have seen . . . .

SGL





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Re: likeability bias in model freight car selection

jerryglow2
 

Not to discredit your approach but I've never been a "one of everything" modeler (or as I phrased it Noah's Arc divided by 2). I prefer more commonly seen items and absolutely love "the same but different" ie two similiar cars with minor detail variations.

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@..., Frederick Freitas <prrinvt@...> wrote:

Jim, Jerry, list,

                    My study of my modeling area, the PRR panhandle Divn in
th Ohio River environment has shown that the most numerous interchange
cars from nearby roads were hoppers for coal loading. Granted, this is a
muliple steel mill location, so you almost expect it.
         The rest of the traffic is from across the states. There's eastern cars,
such as NH, B&M, B&A going west /south west; and every roadname
west of St Louis heading east. My bigest challenge currently is finding
info abouot the FGE icing facilities in Wheeling and Benwwod, WV. I
may have to invest in more FGEX reefers to balance the fleet.
         I whole heartedly agree with Tony, if you like it, then add it to
your fleet. Just about one of everything went through a given point
at sometime. I just had photo of a helium car show up on my modeled
section of the PRR; so I'm off to fiind one of them for upgrading.

Fred Freitas


Re: likeability bias in model freight car selection

sparachuk <sparachuk@...>
 

-
You can't have it all ways Jim. If you want disorder, join a club!

Tim
Tim: Best answer so far!

Stephan Parachuk
Toronto


Re: likeability bias in model freight car selection

Tim O'Connor
 

Maybe its a growing orderliness I see in my HO scale fleet that is uncomfortable. Like a home flower garden. Each car has a purpose. And I like every single car.

There is an underlying orderliness to real railroading too, it's just that I rarely glimpse all the themes in a real railroad yard. I am never privy to the waybills and wheel reports in real time. If I do see wheel reports, it is some deep research from a surviving wheel report in a 1950's era where I hadn;t been born yet. I was not there.

So my experience with real railroad yards (grubby, seemingly random, some very ugly cars, full of surprises) is different than my own model rairoad yard (much cleaner, purposeful, fabulous cars everywhere, no surprises).

Maybe I should swamp my railroad theme with PRR cars. Simple, grubby, common, random, no apparent purpose, bad boys..... :)

You can't have it all ways Jim. If you want disorder, join a club!

Tim


Re: likeability bias in model freight car selection

Frederick Freitas <prrinvt@...>
 

Jim, Jerry, list,

                    My study of my modeling area, the PRR panhandle Divn in
th Ohio River environment has shown that the most numerous interchange
cars from nearby roads were hoppers for coal loading. Granted, this is a
muliple steel mill location, so you almost expect it.
         The rest of the traffic is from across the states. There's eastern cars,
such as NH, B&M, B&A going west /south west; and every roadname
west of St Louis heading east. My bigest challenge currently is finding
info abouot the FGE icing facilities in Wheeling and Benwwod, WV. I
may have to invest in more FGEX reefers to balance the fleet.
         I whole heartedly agree with Tony, if you like it, then add it to
your fleet. Just about one of everything went through a given point
at sometime. I just had photo of a helium car show up on my modeled
section of the PRR; so I'm off to fiind one of them for upgrading.

Fred Freitas



________________________________
From: jerryglow2 <jerryglow@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wednesday, June 3, 2009 8:33:35 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: likeability bias in model freight car selection





IMHO you need to study your interchange partners and patterns. It is less likely that a nearby road's cars would be on yours than a distant one. Not impossible but to me, less likely. Of course we all are PRR modelers regardless of what we call our railroad <G> but in my case that is VERY true as PRR interchanged with my modeled MP mainly in St Louis and many cars were subject of Dick Kulbs (and others') photos in Texas.

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups. com, James Mischke <jmischke@.. .> wrote:




We've discussed how to achieve a fleet look, a pseudo random
feel for freight trains on our model railroads in many different
ways on this steam era list.

I've noticed something about my growing freight car fleet.
Although I have researched appropriate B&O freight cars in
detail, found foreign freight cars and prototype ladings for my
B&O Pittsburgh theme, strove to keep lettering schemes simple
(freight cars became loud in the 1960's but not much before),
and found appropriate mixes of freight car types .....

.... I have discovered a bias in my stash. I like everything.
It is not acquired if I do not like it. For all practical
purposes, I am gardening. So my yard and trains have this
Better Homes and Gardens feel to them, a cultivated look, not
the grubby randomness of real yards. No surprises. No weeds.
No bad boys. Everything has a documented purpose, yet things
seem too orderly.

Example: I just got an Intermountain NKP covered hopper:
because NKP is a nearby connection, I wanted a detailed ACF
covered hopper for variety, and ... I liked it. The other five
road names were not good fits and I was indifferent to them.
This pattern repeats over and over. Especially now that freight
cars are routinely $35 each, I better like them!

I can get around this by swamping my foreign road favorite bias
with a sea of common B&O prototypes, I think. Yet I think there
is something amiss with my acquisitions approach.

Anybody else feel this way? I would invite some discussion on
this topic.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: likeability bias in model freight car selection

jerryglow2
 

I just had a friend over today who belongs to but does not monitor the list very often. I showed him how the ORER has interchange roads for every road listed so it's an easy matter to pick some that make sense. On the other hand, certain cars "got around" and are distinctive in any fleet.

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@..., Andy Sperandeo <asperandeo@...> wrote:

"Likeability bias"? Is that so much of a problem? It seems that most of us here have never met a freight car we didn't like. - Andy

Andy Sperandeo
Executive Editor
Model Railroader magazine
asperandeo@...
262-796-8776, ext. 461
FAX 262-796-1142


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


REA wood express cars

pennsyrrnut <pennsyrrfan@...>
 

Does anyone have or know where I can obtain a drawing of the undercarriage of one these cars, showing brakes, piping, etc?

Thanks in advance,

Paul R Greenwald
PRRT&HS
NMRA


Re: likeability bias in model freight car selection

rwitt_2000
 

Jerry Glow wrote:

IMHO you need to study your interchange partners and patterns. It is
less likely that a nearby road's cars would be on yours than a distant
one. Not impossible but to me, less likely. Of course we all are PRR
modelers regardless of what we call our railroad <G> but in my case that
is VERY true as PRR interchanged with my modeled MP mainly in St Louis
and many cars were subject of Dick Kulbs (and others') photos in Texas.

I agree with Jerry although I would add that its the customers that
determine the freight car traffic patterns.

In each area industries determine the shipping patterns. As a counter to
Jerry's assumption that interchange is more likely with "distant"
railroads I provide the following example. In Madison Wisconsin, the
Milwaukee Road served the University heating plant, but the coal
contract was with mines in southern Illinois. So the coal came via the
Illinois Central usually in their hoppers. The IC interchanged with the
Milwaukee Road. The MILW took the hoppers, spotted them at the unloading
facility in the coal storage yard for the heating plant. They were
unloaded and returned empty to the IC. All this activity occurred within
an area of one square city block.

Bob Witt


Re: likeability bias in model freight car selection

jim_mischke <jmischke@...>
 

Maybe its a growing orderliness I see in my HO scale fleet that is uncomfortable. Like a home flower garden. Each car has a purpose. And I like every single car.

There is an underlying orderliness to real railroading too, it's just that I rarely glimpse all the themes in a real railroad yard. I am never privy to the waybills and wheel reports in real time. If I do see wheel reports, it is some deep research from a surviving wheel report in a 1950's era where I hadn;t been born yet. I was not there.

So my experience with real railroad yards (grubby, seemingly random, some very ugly cars, full of surprises) is different than my own model rairoad yard (much cleaner, purposeful, fabulous cars everywhere, no surprises).

Maybe I should swamp my railroad theme with PRR cars. Simple, grubby, common, random, no apparent purpose, bad boys..... :)

--- In STMFC@..., "sparachuk" <sparachuk@...> wrote:

--- In STMFC@..., James Mischke <jmischke@> wrote:
James: I am in accord with what you are doing. It's too bad you feel there's something wrong with it, though. I like the idea of walking around my HO scale yard going "Oh, look! A B&O wagontop!" "Wow! An X-23!" "A CPR mini-box!" I can't see them anymore in real life so I can at least see them at home. Of course if you want to get some cars you hate I suppose that's up to you. But you'd probably love them, too.

Stephan Parachuk
Toronto



We've discussed how to achieve a fleet look, a pseudo random
feel for freight trains on our model railroads in many different
ways on this steam era list.


.... I have discovered a bias in my stash. I like everything.
It is not acquired if I do not like it.


Re: likeability bias in model freight car selection

Andy Sperandeo <asperandeo@...>
 

"Likeability bias"? Is that so much of a problem? It seems that most of us here have never met a freight car we didn't like. - Andy

Andy Sperandeo
Executive Editor
Model Railroader magazine
asperandeo@...
262-796-8776, ext. 461
FAX 262-796-1142


Re: The NMRA and RPM Meets, Wheels & Couplers

Tim O'Connor
 

Actually an article on GM pointed out that Consumer Reports
currently recommends 71% of Ford vehicles but only 17% of GM
vehicles. The Ford percentage is comparable to imports. C.R.
uses paper and autos use steel, both of which travel in
freight cars...

Please, let's get back to freight cars or should we try to decide
whether Ford or Chevy is the better automobile?
Oh, Gene, that's SO twentieth century. Where I live, the most
popular cars are Toyota and Honda hybrids, closely followed by
Subarus. The only people who still talk Ford and Chevy are gas-
gulping truck owners with tattoos.
Richard Hendrickson


Re: REA wood express cars

Charles Hladik
 

Paul,
I believe that PSC has the drawing in their catalogs. I don't know how
accurate it is.
Chuck Hladik

In a message dated 6/3/2009 4:49:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
pennsyrrfan@... writes:





Does anyone have or know where I can obtain a drawing of the undercarriage
of one these cars, showing brakes, piping, etc?

Thanks in advance,

Paul R Greenwald
PRRT&HS
NMRA


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On-line article: IC “Mainline of Mid-America” 2-bay offset hoppers

thbguy <livingston@...>
 

Hello all,

While I have been a long-time lurker on this group and have really enjoyed the modeling efforts and information shared by many of you, I have never posted here before. Most modellers on this Yahoo group are HO-scale, but some really good work can be done in N-scale as well. I thought that it would be good to share it.

I have finally completed my N-scale Illinois Central "Mainline of Mid-America" hopper decal set and GHQ has agreed to post my article and sell the decals. This set decorates six, distinct IC hopper cars with high-resolution white decals that I printed using an ALPS printer. I had been planning to release these for over three years, but didn't really have a good venue to get them out to the public.

It would also be helpful to get an idea of whether or not these decals would be a hit in HO-scale.

While I could have submitted thsi article to a magazine, I really like what Gregg Scott is doing with these on-line articles, and am planning to write several, highly-detailed and researched articles on various railroad modeling subjects. My RR model building is good, but not yet up to Gregg's level, however I am getting better with every project that I do. Hopefully you will appreciate the detail and background information about company coal delivery into Canada and particularly, the detailed information about the IC coal service hopper fleet. I would appreciate any feedback, incremental information, corrections, or revisions.

To go on the N-scale forum go to the GHQ Web site (www.ghqmodels.com) and select Forums from the list or try this link:

<http://www.ghqmodels.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3290>

Check it out.

Michael Livingston
Modeling southern Ontario RRs including CNR, TH&B, CPR, NYC, Wabash, C&O, N&W, PC, Via, GO transit, Conrail, Pere Marquette, etc... just not all at the same time!

I am not affiliated with GHQ, but I am a friend of Gregg Scott's and am now a contributor to this online article series. Now I hope to be a regular contributor!


Re: likeability bias in model freight car selection

sparachuk <sparachuk@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., James Mischke <jmischke@...> wrote:
James: I am in accord with what you are doing. It's too bad you feel there's something wrong with it, though. I like the idea of walking around my HO scale yard going "Oh, look! A B&O wagontop!" "Wow! An X-23!" "A CPR mini-box!" I can't see them anymore in real life so I can at least see them at home. Of course if you want to get some cars you hate I suppose that's up to you. But you'd probably love them, too.

Stephan Parachuk
Toronto



We've discussed how to achieve a fleet look, a pseudo random
feel for freight trains on our model railroads in many different
ways on this steam era list.


.... I have discovered a bias in my stash. I like everything.
It is not acquired if I do not like it.


Re: likeability bias in model freight car selection

Tim O'Connor
 

Poverty (or in my case, unemployment) helps to discipline
ones purchases. Not that I recommend it, but it sures helps
one say "no" to shiny baubles in the hobby store... I have
met only one or two modelers in my life who never had more
than one unbuilt kit on hand... they buy, build, and then
repeat. That is tough to do in a world of "reservations"
for every new item, and 6 month waiting periods for resin
kits..

Tim O'Connor

We've discussed how to achieve a fleet look, a pseudo random
feel for freight trains on our model railroads in many different
ways on this steam era list.

I've noticed something about my growing freight car fleet.
Although I have researched appropriate B&O freight cars in
detail, found foreign freight cars and prototype ladings for my
B&O Pittsburgh theme, strove to keep lettering schemes simple
(freight cars became loud in the 1960's but not much before),
and found appropriate mixes of freight car types .....

.... I have discovered a bias in my stash. I like everything.
It is not acquired if I do not like it. For all practical
purposes, I am gardening. So my yard and trains have this
Better Homes and Gardens feel to them, a cultivated look, not
the grubby randomness of real yards. No surprises. No weeds.
No bad boys. Everything has a documented purpose, yet things
seem too orderly.

Example: I just got an Intermountain NKP covered hopper:
because NKP is a nearby connection, I wanted a detailed ACF
covered hopper for variety, and ... I liked it. The other five
road names were not good fits and I was indifferent to them.
This pattern repeats over and over. Especially now that freight
cars are routinely $35 each, I better like them!

I can get around this by swamping my foreign road favorite bias
with a sea of common B&O prototypes, I think. Yet I think there
is something amiss with my acquisitions approach.

Anybody else feel this way? I would invite some discussion on
this topic.


likeability/continued

ed_mines
 

I think photographers had a similar prejudice against beat up cars or ones weathered to the extent that the reporting marks are barely readable.


Re: likeability bias in model freight car selection

ed_mines
 

--- In STMFC@..., James Mischke <jmischke@...> wrote:
Anybody else feel this way? I would invite some discussion on
this topic.
Yes. I think common cars like PRR X29s are under represented in favor of variety.

Ed


Re: likeability bias in model freight car selection

jerryglow2
 

IMHO you need to study your interchange partners and patterns. It is less likely that a nearby road's cars would be on yours than a distant one. Not impossible but to me, less likely. Of course we all are PRR modelers regardless of what we call our railroad <G> but in my case that is VERY true as PRR interchanged with my modeled MP mainly in St Louis and many cars were subject of Dick Kulbs (and others') photos in Texas.

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@..., James Mischke <jmischke@...> wrote:




We've discussed how to achieve a fleet look, a pseudo random
feel for freight trains on our model railroads in many different
ways on this steam era list.

I've noticed something about my growing freight car fleet.
Although I have researched appropriate B&O freight cars in
detail, found foreign freight cars and prototype ladings for my
B&O Pittsburgh theme, strove to keep lettering schemes simple
(freight cars became loud in the 1960's but not much before),
and found appropriate mixes of freight car types .....

.... I have discovered a bias in my stash. I like everything.
It is not acquired if I do not like it. For all practical
purposes, I am gardening. So my yard and trains have this
Better Homes and Gardens feel to them, a cultivated look, not
the grubby randomness of real yards. No surprises. No weeds.
No bad boys. Everything has a documented purpose, yet things
seem too orderly.

Example: I just got an Intermountain NKP covered hopper:
because NKP is a nearby connection, I wanted a detailed ACF
covered hopper for variety, and ... I liked it. The other five
road names were not good fits and I was indifferent to them.
This pattern repeats over and over. Especially now that freight
cars are routinely $35 each, I better like them!

I can get around this by swamping my foreign road favorite bias
with a sea of common B&O prototypes, I think. Yet I think there
is something amiss with my acquisitions approach.

Anybody else feel this way? I would invite some discussion on
this topic.


likeability bias in model freight car selection

James Mischke <jmischke@...>
 

We've discussed how to achieve a fleet look, a pseudo random
feel for freight trains on our model railroads in many different
ways on this steam era list.

I've noticed something about my growing freight car fleet.
Although I have researched appropriate B&O freight cars in
detail, found foreign freight cars and prototype ladings for my
B&O Pittsburgh theme, strove to keep lettering schemes simple
(freight cars became loud in the 1960's but not much before),
and found appropriate mixes of freight car types .....

.... I have discovered a bias in my stash. I like everything.
It is not acquired if I do not like it. For all practical
purposes, I am gardening. So my yard and trains have this
Better Homes and Gardens feel to them, a cultivated look, not
the grubby randomness of real yards. No surprises. No weeds.
No bad boys. Everything has a documented purpose, yet things
seem too orderly.

Example: I just got an Intermountain NKP covered hopper:
because NKP is a nearby connection, I wanted a detailed ACF
covered hopper for variety, and ... I liked it. The other five
road names were not good fits and I was indifferent to them.
This pattern repeats over and over. Especially now that freight
cars are routinely $35 each, I better like them!

I can get around this by swamping my foreign road favorite bias
with a sea of common B&O prototypes, I think. Yet I think there
is something amiss with my acquisitions approach.

Anybody else feel this way? I would invite some discussion on
this topic.


A note on Brian Leppert

Frederick Freitas <prrinvt@...>
 

List,

         Brian had emergency triple bypass surgery on May, 31st.
Please include him in your thoughts for a speedy recovery.

Fred Freitas

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