Date   

Re: Contests

seaboard_1966
 

Guys

contests are NMRA, we are NOT NMRA. If you want to enter your models in a contest join the NMRA and attend and participate in their contests. Who knows, you could get a patch for your vest. RPM is much more dedicated to modelers than the NMRA has been over the past two or so decades..

Denis Blake
North Hamlet Shops, OH

----- Original Message -----
From: "Frederick Freitas" <prrinvt@...>
To: <stmfc@...>
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 11:00 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Contests


Guyz,

Admittedly, there are folks who thrive on the contest circuit, and that is fine for them. I don't like contests in my hobby; I want the enjoyment without the pressure to reach some arbitrary goal in life. That is why I attend RPM meets with regularity. I can come with an open mind, learn new techniques, talk to the modeler about how, what, and whatever. The contest does not offer me this learning curve.

Clinics at the PRM meets is what draws a lot of us to them. We are not experts in every phase of he hobby; so learning is important. The generosity of the presenters can be overwhelming. Some show up with 30 page hand outs you can take home and actually teach yourself a new skill. No contest ever gave me instructions on how to build what the other guy brought to the table. Why should he, he's trying to beat out the competitors.

The ego thing is a part of it too. Some need the pat on the head to feel vindication for their efforts; I don't. Maybe that I'm over 60 it isn't nescessary to my existance. What is nescessary is getting the model done right. Most of us are familiar with the blue box kits, and my age group recalls Laconia, Main Line, Silver Streak, Kadee, Ambroid, etc. as being the best we could get at the time. They were great learning tools. Some of us did very well, others excelled at building them.

Today I like to think of myself as a proto-builder of models. Were I capable of not forgetting anything on a model, then I could just sit home and smile. I'm not, so off to the RPM meets I go, note pad in hand. { we 60 somethings don't remember much without notes}
Guess it's a matter of competiion, or learning. Not knowing it all, I will strive to learn as much as my gray matter will retain.

Contests are for competitors, and are important to them. By all means have your contest.
As for mixing the two at an RPM, I can live without it. Honestly, I think it will be counter productive to the friendly atmosphere of an RPM. We come together to share, not to try to out do the next guy. Yes, it is my opinion. Some will agree; others not. That's what makes open discussion work so well.

Fred Freitas
Bennington, VT






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Contests

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Well, I'll add a few more thoughts before this thread develops diminishing returns.

Each RPM meet develops its own agenda, its own rules and policies. That's one of the advantages of the RPM movement.

Kurt Laughlin writes:

"The fact that contests are rare at RPM meets sounds like a missed opportunity for you guys."

Consider this. Contests require judging. This in turn requires time AND space free from interruption. It might be one thing to judge, say, 50 models [ the judges wouldn't be doing much else on that day and, yes, I've been a judge ] but try judging 500. Where would it take place? Forgetting all that, however, is the issue of winners and losers. Lets say 300 frt cars are entered. We have 299 losers. Not good. Having been a judge and part of a contest committee, I know first hand that the overall results are frequently not positive. In the end, we actually do conduct judging at RPM meets. When we display our little jewels they are silently [ sometimes not so silently ] judged by the attendees. It is not so much of a competition...thank goodness...but anything displayed is going to be evaluated.

Mike Brock













In the tank modeling world our club (military vehicles only) loves the national contest. The models are judged against an objective criteria based on good construction, good painting, good weathering and so forth rather than against each other. This distinguishes us from the larger national plastic model club that uses a traditional 1-2-3-out system. The method of judging is also different. Rather than a small team of judges who judge every model we use peer judging in shifts. Almost uniformly the people who judge say that it was the best lesson they've ever had on building better models. I know there are people who are bothered by judging in principle, but the thing modelers remember is learning how such and such technique was done, not whether they got a bronze or silver.

KL





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Re: Contests at RPM meets

Charlie Vlk
 

Seems to me that the RPM "sharing of neato modeling enthusiasm" is more constructive to the Hobby than the NMRA "merit badge" approach. But each to their own.....

I somehow wasn't expelled when I wandered into the contest room during judging at the Cinncinatti NMRA convention. The judges were looking at a drop dead
gorgeous HO concrete coaling tower and they were arguing if the smudges of soot on the tower were intentional weathering or poor craftsmanship since no mention was made of them on the official entry form. They were not fingerprint-shaped and to my eye looked like typical weathering you'd expect on such a structure. I wonder if the guy continued to model and enter contests if the judges comments were written down.....

I've entered and won in judged contests (both committee and popular vote) and much prefer the RPM approach. I like that the lack of pressure which ecourages more people to share their work, no matter how imperfect or unfinished. It is always instructive to see how others have been inspired to select a particular prototype and see how they decided to approach making a model of it. Being able to talk to the builder face to face about their work is a bonus.

Charlie Vlk


Contests

Frederick Freitas <prrinvt@...>
 

Guyz,
 
         Admittedly, there are folks who thrive on the contest circuit, and that is fine for them. I don't like contests in my hobby; I want the enjoyment without the pressure to reach some arbitrary goal in life. That is why I attend RPM meets with regularity. I can come with an open mind, learn new techniques, talk to the modeler about how, what, and whatever. The contest does not offer me this learning curve.
 
Clinics at the PRM meets is what draws a lot of us to them. We are not experts in every phase of he hobby; so learning is important. The generosity of the presenters can be overwhelming. Some show up with 30 page hand outs you can take home and actually teach yourself a new skill. No contest ever gave me instructions on how to build what the other guy brought to the table. Why should he, he's trying to beat out the competitors.
 
The ego thing is a part of it too. Some need the pat on the head to feel vindication for their efforts; I don't. Maybe that I'm over 60 it isn't nescessary to my existance. What is nescessary is getting the model done right. Most of us are familiar with the blue box kits, and my age group recalls Laconia, Main Line, Silver Streak, Kadee, Ambroid, etc. as being the best we could get at the time. They were great learning tools. Some of us did very well, others excelled at building them.
 
Today I like to think of myself as a proto-builder of models. Were I capable of not forgetting anything on a model, then I could just sit home and smile. I'm not, so off to the RPM meets I go, note pad in hand. { we 60 somethings don't remember much without notes}
Guess it's a matter of competiion, or learning. Not knowing it all, I will strive to learn as much as my gray matter will retain.
 
Contests are for competitors, and are important to them. By all means have your contest.
As for mixing the two at an RPM, I can live without it. Honestly, I think it will be counter productive to the friendly atmosphere of an RPM. We come together to share, not to try to out do the next guy. Yes, it is my opinion. Some will agree; others not. That's what makes open discussion work so well.
 
Fred Freitas
Bennington, VT
        

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Contests

Frederick Freitas <prrinvt@...>
 

Guyz,
 
         Admittedly, there are folks who thrive on the contest circuit, and that is fine for them. I don't like contests in my hobby; I want the enjoyment without the pressure to reach some arbitrary goal in life. That is why I attend RPM meets with regularity. I can come with an open mind, learn new techniques, talk to the modeler about how, what, and whatever. The contest does not offer me this learning curve.
 
Clinics at the PRM meets is what draws a lot of us to them. We are not experts in every phase of he hobby; so learning is important. The generosity of the presenters can be overwhelming. Some show up with 30 page hand outs you can take home and actually teach yourself a new skill. No contest ever gave me instructions on how to build what the other guy brought to the table. Why should he, he's trying to beat out the competitors.
 
The ego thing is a part of it too. Some need the pat on the head to feel vindication for their efforts; I don't. Maybe that I'm over 60 it isn't nescessary to my existance. What is nescessary is getting the model done right. Most of us are familiar with the blue box kits, and my age group recalls Laconia, Main Line, Silver Streak, Kadee, Ambroid, etc. as being the best we could get at the time. They were great learning tools. Some of us did very well, others excelled at building them.
 
Today I like to think of myself as a proto-builder of models. Were I capable of not forgetting anything on a model, then I could just sit home and smile. I'm not, so off to the RPM meets I go, note pad in hand. { we 60 somethings don't remember much without notes}
Guess it's a matter of competiion, or learning. Not knowing it all, I will strive to learn as much as my gray matter will retain.
 
Contests are for competitors, and are important to them. By all means have your contest.
As for mixing the two at an RPM, I can live without it. Honestly, I think it will be counter productive to the friendly atmosphere of an RPM. We come together to share, not to try to out do the next guy. Yes, it is my opinion. Some will agree; others not. That's what makes open discussion work so well.
 
Fred Freitas
Bennington, VT
        

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Contests at RPM meets

Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
 

To be fair to at least one NMRA region, I've found regional judging in the NFR to be tough and instructive, yet very fair, from when Pete Moffett oversaw it, to the last NFR convention that I attended. And I've been on the receiving end of that judging.

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@..., "Kurt Laughlin" <fleeta@...> wrote:

The fact that contests are rare at RPM meets sounds like a missed opportunity for you guys. In the tank modeling world our club (military vehicles only) loves the national contest. The models are judged against an objective criteria based on good construction, good painting, good weathering and so forth rather than against each other. This distinguishes us from the larger national plastic model club that uses a traditional 1-2-3-out system. The method of judging is also different. Rather than a small team of judges who judge every model we use peer judging in shifts. Almost uniformly the people who judge say that it was the best lesson they've ever had on building better models. I know there are people who are bothered by judging in principle, but the thing modelers remember is learning how such and such technique was done, not whether they got a bronze or silver.

KL

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: erroneous captions/RTR vs. kits

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

David North wrote:
OK, so you've singled me out Tony. As an NMRA Trustee and Director form 1998-2006 what didn't I do?
I've answered David off list, as this is clearly outside the list scope. But I can assure anyone still reading this thread that I don't find David's comments remotely convincing. (Incidentally, I'll forward--off list--my answer to David to anyone who asks.)

Tony Thompson
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937;
e-mail: thompsonmarytony@...


Re: tack boards

Robert kirkham
 

I use small bit of decal or dry transfers - usually white - applied to the model.

Rob Kirkham


--------------------------------------------------
From: <chrislantz@...>
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 2:14 PM
To: <STMFC@...>
Subject: [STMFC] tack boards

All,

I'm sure this has been mentioned in the past before I joined this group but what is the best material to use to get the correct look for the "paperwork" on the tack boards. Thanks.

Chris Lantz


Re: erroneous captions/RTR vs. kits

David North <davenorth@...>
 

Well said, Tim. I meant to single out NMRA brass at the
national level. Many local regions have "seen the light" and embrace
prototype modeling, including my own Pacific Coast Region. Some parts
of my former region, MId-Central Region, do the same, and doubtless
there are others. Why this cannot penetrate the Board of Trustees or
serving national officers is beyond me.
Tony Thompson




OK, so you've singled me out Tony.

As an NMRA Trustee and Director form 1998-2006 what didn't I do?

I've been a prototype modeler since 1992 and have actively promoted,
supported, attended and displayed models at all but one (due to illness) RPM
meeting held in my Region.

Over the 8 years on the Board, I don't recollect us ever doing anything that
was anti RPM.

In fact, I don't recollect any submissions from you or any other members
about anything to do with RPM.

All negotiation between RPM and the NMRA are typically at Division and
Region level and I know locally, our Region fully supports the RPM movement.

And please don't tell me your local ex Director Ray deBlieck isn't pro RPM.



And re the contest, sure there are rules. And there is nothing wrong with
that.

The paperwork is designed to help the judges determine what YOU did in each
category - paint, construction, scratchbuilding etc, and the model is judged
on those criteria.

If you don't complete the paperwork, how in heavens name do you expect the
judge to know what you've done?



My first entry in the NMRA contest didn't score well at all. So I read the
judges comments, re-read the rules and with that information in mind,
entered a model at the next convention that attained a significantly higher
score.

Why? Two reasons IMHO. One, I followed the rules. And two, I pushed my own
ability to do some things I hadn't done before - like scratchbuilding.

So for me, the contest motivated me to be a more competent modeler. Just my
10c worth.



RPM offers a popular vote. You can enter a factory painted brass model and
be awarded the popular vote if the model is liked most by the majority.

It isn't a reflection of your modeling ability. It may be a measure of how
prototypically accurate your model is, or simply how much people liked it.

Or maybe you just display your models so others can see and discuss what you
have done.



Trying to compare the two is pointless. One is a competition, the other a
display. One is not better than the other, they are just different.

I don't understand why some people feel the need to have one be better than
the other. Why can't the two just co-exist peacefully.

As far as I'm concerned the whole is more than the sum of the parts.

Cheers

Dave North


Re: Contests at RPM meets

Greg Martin
 

KL writes:

"The fact that contests are rare at RPM meets sounds like a missed
opportunity for you guys."

Tony or Richard can correct me but I think that 1994 Portland RPM/NMRA
National Convention was the last to see a contest. No more need for tummy
rubbing.

"In the tank modeling world our club (military vehicles only) loves the
national contest. The models are judged against an objective criteria based on
good construction, good painting, good weathering and so forth rather than
against each other. This distinguishes us from the larger national plastic
model club that uses a traditional 1-2-3-out system. The method of judging
is also different. Rather than a small team of judges who judge every
model we use peer judging in shifts. Almost uniformly the people who judge say
that it was the best lesson they've ever had on building better models. I
know there are people who are bothered by judging in principle, but the
thing modelers remember is learning how such and such technique was done, not
whether they got a bronze or silver.

KL"


I too have been involved in Military Model judging and reading into KL's
post I think that there must now be more than just the IMPS involved in
Military Modeling, which tells me that there was a philosophical split
somewhere down the line... Sound familiar guys?

The IPMS group that I judged with was the Las Vegas Chapter of the IMPS
(which by the way also had a philosophical split) but when we were given
instructions at the judges meeting the emphasis was promoting the positive and
being as objective as possible, but no matter how positive the judging the
"local factor" always creeps in and you can try to convince me otherwise as
I smile at you and roll my eyes It happens at National meets as well as
regional's. Best if the host chapter had nothing to do with the judging and
the judging was done from a pool of judges picked at random. But that is
sadly not the case.

IMHO I think that contest are all about stroking ones ego and that is from
someone that has won the NMRA Brass Bell. every once in a while I still
like that tummy rub... mmm, good!

I must say I like what we have done in Cocoa Beach and reminded everyone
to please check your ego at the door, and leave it at that.

Greg Martin

PS aren't we supposed to sign our post with our names?






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Re: Freight Car Archives

destron@...
 

I did the Public Archives of Canada gig a few years ago.

The Merillees collection was tossed by his heirs into boxes for
transport to the archives, and now the order in which they were so
tossed is sacred.
I understand how provenance can be valuable, say with presidential or
other historical figures' private papers. This is not the case with the
Merrilees collection but there is no telling that to the archival Nazis
there.

In defence of LAC, a few comments.

I have a friend who works at LAC, and when I visited Ottawa (including
considerable time spent at the archive), she took me to one of the
non-public portions of Library & Archives Canada, the work-offices in
Gatineau. One thing she mentioned to me is that there is just about nobody
on staff who actually cares about the transportation portfolio, and so
nothing gets done with it with regards to organisation.

It's not so much that the order in which everything was thrown into the
boxes is "sacred", but more that nobody gives enough of a damn to be
bothered to do anything about it. Any work done with regards to
transportation matters is only that what absolutely needs done, and
nothing more. This is actually what got me started on considering
switching my studies from linguistics to history - get a job at LAC and
work with the transportation portfolio. My friend in Gatineau said the
staff would love me for it.

With regards to the ordering of the photos in the index card boxes: it is
not at all random, though it may certainly seem so when you flip through
and see boxcar, Maurice Richard, tank car, tank car, Montreal Canadiens
team photo, random soldier, boat, tank car, Audrey Hepburn. The order in
which the photos are filed - by PA number - is the order in which they
were requested and retrieved.

Whereupon
the archival Nazi officer of the day told me that photos are to be moved
and viewed with two hands at all times. And that if I used only one
hand to view a photo just one more time, I would be thrown out the door.

Great collection. No fun at all.
I don't know about that, I had a great time. I never had any issue at all,
and found the staff very helpful and accomodating, to the extent of saying
sure, go ahead and take pictures of the pictures if you want. The only
stipulation I was given was that old papers had to be handled with gloves:
perfectly understandable.

Frank Valoczy
Vancouver, BC



Frank Valoczy
Vancouver, BC


The NMRA and RPM Meets, Wheels & Couplers

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Before this thread degenerates into another NMRA bashing contest, I'm going
to make a few comments.

First, a lot of "water" has passed below various bridges since 1986. That was pre-STMFC and the period of "enlightement" with regard to railroad
rolling stock was in the future....as was the "Prototype Modeling" NMRA
convention in Pittsburgh. IOW, I think it is a mistake to draw on past
experiences with the NMRA and NMRA officers as if they apply today. I will say, however, that past experiences have had a negative effect. I am convinced that the current NMRA national office realizes this and,
hopefully, the current administration is moving to put the NMRA in a
position in which it serves its members rather than being served by them.

Consider these facts:

1. The number of National NMRA officers/Board members that regularly attend
Prototype Rails in Cocoa Beach: 3

2. The number of such members that annually give prototype associated
presentations at Prototype Rails: 2

3. Is that enough participation?

4. Here's a comment from current NMRA President Mike Brestel:

"In my opinion, if we can't get in front of the SIG issue, "NMRA-santioned"
or not, we are doomed to increasing irrelevance. I for one want to see this
issue resolved in favor of inclusion, not exclusion, by the end of the
Detroit meeting."

This comment was with respect to the national office of the NMRA Sanctioning RPM meets. The NMRA did approve such sanctioning and Prototype Rails has operated as an NMRA RPM SIG for the last two yrs. Anyone notice any difference? IOW, the meet was conducted as usual...but with some insurance protections provided by the NMRA. A win, win.

The NMRA includes an extremely broad spectrum of modeling real and
fictitious railroads. It is an umbrella that tries to include all aspects of
the hobby but it does not try to control the various elements...at least the RPM part. It obviously
conducts contests and grants awards for various types of achievement. Are all NMRA events required to conform to such activities. No. An RPM meet sets its own rules as long as they don't violate NMRA principles...and no RPM meet that I'm aware of does so violate. The only aspect that an RPM meet might be in violation of is that some members of the meet's committee must be NMRA members. That's it. No one from the NMRA directs an RPM meet as to what their program or agenda is.

Having said that, is it a perfect world? Of course not. Organizations are only as good as their members...particularly, in the case of the NMRA, its leaders. In the case of the NMRA, its effectiveness includes Standards and Recommended Practices [ RP's ]. I had an interesting and not entirely positive discussion a week or so ago with respect to the infamous Code 88T [ I use the "T" to note that it is an NMRA RP-25 Code 110 wheel...containing the 110's flange...with a reduced thread width to produce a wheel 0.088" wide ]. The point I made was that the manufacturing community decided to produce this wheel...which does not currently match an NMRA RP or standard...because it was relatively easy to do and it would operate
"acceptably" through turnout frogs built to standards designed to operate with RP-110 wheels. The advantage, obviously, was to provide a thinner tread width which improved the wheel's appearance. The point I was making was that the NMRA needed to get "on board" because the Code 88T wheel was real and was here to stay. This was a case in which the NMRA was not leading but, rather, following. Now, it should be noted that:

"The NMRA Standards were developed as a way to help insure that equipment could be interchanged between one model railroad and another and that cars and locomotives of one manufacturer could run on the track of another manufacturer together with cars and equipment of still other manufacturers and modelers.
A Standard is a figure, relationship or dimension that is mandatory, it is "cut in stone" so to speak and must be followed to facilitate interchange or interface, whichever the case may be. Standards can be changed from time to time but ONLY by the vote of the NMRA membership after proper policy procedures have been followed and the membership has been fully informed.

RPs (Recommended Practices) are those figures, relationships or dimensions that the Engineering Committee has established through actual tests and feel are beneficial to operation. These are not required to be voted by the membership except when in a package such as the Module Standards and RPs. These are presented to the Board of Trustees (BOT) for their study and approval."

The question was [ is ]...should the Code 88T wheel be "sanctioned" by the NMRA as an RP? We know that a Code 88T wheel will not operate as smoothly through a frog designed for a Code 110 wheel. It will, however, operate without derailing...at least from my experience. The point is, perhaps the Code 88T wheel should be defined.

One could also argue that the need for a "scale" operating coupler was ignored by the NMRA. Is this a function as defined by the NMRA Standards and RP's? IMO...yes. Couplers are necessary for operation of equipment and it makes sense that those of different manufacturers operate together. Fortunately, manufacturers apparently realized that if their coupler failed no one would buy it...sorta.

Mike Brock


Re: RTR vs. kits

Jim Williams <wwww5960@...>
 

Hi All......I've seen this thread for how long now?.....What will happen, will happen, let's get over it and move on.......The discussion should be what can be done to improve RTR models....best Jim W. 






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Freight car archives, was: The growing problem of erroneous captions

Armand Premo
 

Really, with today's technology?.Why don't they just put the material on a .disc?The reward should be obvious.Armand Premo----- Original Message -----
From: Anthony Thompson
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 6:21 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Freight car archives, was: The growing problem of erroneous captions





jim_mischke wrote:
> I did the Public Archives of Canada gig a few years ago.
> The only way to get through 161 random boxes of freight car photos
> for their B&O content is to request a bunch and flip through them.
> Whereupon the archival Nazi officer of the day told me that photos
> are to be moved and viewed with two hands at all times. And that if
> I used only one hand to view a photo just one more time, I would be
> thrown out the door.
> Great collection. No fun at all.

Jim, I hear you, but remember that most archives have suffered
theft, in some cases considerable theft. The archivist on the
receiving end of THAT particular fun is gonna be less accommodating in
future.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






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Re: Old Wine Tank Car was: Re UTLX type V tanks

Richard Hendrickson
 

On May 27, 2009, at 12:53 PM, Rod Miller wrote:

A faint recollection from a visit to the Bully Hill
Winery (www.bullyhill.com) was of a frameless tank
car setting alongside the road. [Bully Hill was
created as a protest against "tank car wine from
California" - you find out lots through the above
link or google]. Oh, Bully Hill is near Hammondsport
on Keuka Lake, one of the New York finger lakes.

I was successful in locating a photo of the car:

http://www.pbase.com/steveyaphotos/image/66949785

Unfortunately no frame details are available. The
car looks interesting and unlike and other wine
tank car I've seen. Perhaps parts (domes) are missing
if the car was purchased from the scrap line.

















Wine tank cars came in every form from single compartment to six
compartment. What made them suitable for wine service was that (1)
they were lined (usually with "glass," i.e. a porcelain enamel
finish) and (2) they were class 203 cars with frangible disc vents
instead of safety valves. It appears that the car in your photo
qualifies.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: RTR vs. kits

James Eckman
 

Posted by: "asychis@..." asychis@... asychis
Posted by: "Gatwood, Elden J SAD"

Plastic manufacturers seem to agree that kits are dead, and they are not
going to waste any more time thinking about it.
Maybe that's true for them. The old MDC, etc. kits weren't anything really special. Though I've built up some of the Grandt Line kits. They are special....
Resin manufacturers, on the other hand (and for the most part), seem to
continue to sell lots of kits, which all agree the overwhelming majority of
which will never get built.
Hmm, I'm weird, I've built up most of mine...
The biggest thing that surprises me now days, though, is the "sit back and
wait for someone else to do it for me" attitude that the vast majority of MR
hobbyists now display. You should have heard some of the things folks said
to me at some of the recent meets! I know numerous folks in other hobbies
that build stuff; LOTS of stuff. What I hear from our own, nowdays, is "why
can't you get XYZ to do a RTR X29B in plastic?" I would say from these
dialogues, that a lot of people in this hobby are becoming simple collectors,
not builders.
Builders might not go to meets in your area. I suspect as others have pointed out that narrow gauge and RPM attracts more builder types. If you don't have them, why not start one? Our recent On30 barn meet had over 30 people, one modular and several portable layouts along with models. All that was needed was a barn, but it did start out in the Hofbrau restaurant.
Thank goodness for the prototype modelers!
Even when I freelance I think that!

Jim


Re: Old Wine Tank Car

Rod Miller
 

Posted approx last year (to this group IIRC):

http://users.snowcrest.net/photobob/sj23.html

Rod

Anthony Thompson wrote:

Richard Townsendt wrote:
While we have been conditioned to think of wine tank cars as having five or six domes, that was not necessarily the case.? I have seen photos of single dome tanks being loaded with wine, and I imagine tank cars with any number of domes (well, any number between zero and six, inclusive, anyway) were used to haul wine.? I think the Kaminski tank car book has photos of wine tank cars with various numbers of domes, but I do not have access to my copy right now.? BTW, the zero-dome tank cars I am thinking of are the Chateau Martin ex-milk tanks.
Actually, the page you may be thinking of is in the AC&F book, page 91, which was deliberately arranged to show wine cars of one, three, four and six domes. (I've never seen a five-dome car, but Richard Hendrickson is the real expert on this topic). Kaminski's tank car book also has photos of one, four and six domes.
Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Contests at RPM meets

Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

The fact that contests are rare at RPM meets sounds like a missed opportunity for you guys. In the tank modeling world our club (military vehicles only) loves the national contest. The models are judged against an objective criteria based on good construction, good painting, good weathering and so forth rather than against each other. This distinguishes us from the larger national plastic model club that uses a traditional 1-2-3-out system. The method of judging is also different. Rather than a small team of judges who judge every model we use peer judging in shifts. Almost uniformly the people who judge say that it was the best lesson they've ever had on building better models. I know there are people who are bothered by judging in principle, but the thing modelers remember is learning how such and such technique was done, not whether they got a bronze or silver.

KL


Re: Old Wine Tank Car

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Richard Townsendt wrote:
While we have been conditioned to think of wine tank cars as having five or six domes, that was not necessarily the case.? I have seen photos of single dome tanks being loaded with wine, and I imagine tank cars with any number of domes (well, any number between zero and six, inclusive, anyway) were used to haul wine.? I think the Kaminski tank car book has photos of wine tank cars with various numbers of domes, but I do not have access to my copy right now.? BTW, the zero-dome tank cars I am thinking of are the Chateau Martin ex-milk tanks.
Actually, the page you may be thinking of is in the AC&F book, page 91, which was deliberately arranged to show wine cars of one, three, four and six domes. (I've never seen a five-dome car, but Richard Hendrickson is the real expert on this topic). Kaminski's tank car book also has photos of one, four and six domes.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Old Wine Tank Car was: Re UTLX type V tanks

Richard Townsend
 

While we have been conditioned to think of wine tank cars as having five or six domes, that was not necessarily the case.? I have seen photos of single dome tanks being loaded with wine, and I imagine tank cars with any number of domes (well, any number between zero and six, inclusive, anyway) were used to haul wine.? I think the Kaminski tank car book has photos of wine tank cars with various numbers of domes, but I do not have access to my copy right now.? BTW, the zero-dome tank cars I am thinking of are the Chateau Martin ex-milk tanks.


Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon

-----Original Message-----
From: Rod Miller <rod@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wed, 27 May 2009 12:53 pm
Subject: [STMFC] Old Wine Tank Car was: Re UTLX type V tanks






***

The car looks interesting and unlike and other wine
tank car I've seen. Perhaps parts (domes) are missing
if the car was purchased from the scrap line.? ***


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