--- In STMFC@..., water.kresse@... wrote:

Stephan,



I couldn't get St. Thomas out of my brain to save me.  The Canadian Div had special inside arrangements in their cabooses for conductors and I believe special ladders, rails, etc. on their locomotives and tenders.   St. Thomas was agress in getting the early refurbishing and repainting work.  The Wyoming shops seem to do special equipped cars for auto parts.  Is that PM/C&O photo collection available up in your parts?



I almost didn't post the message . . . because of my brain-f#$%@*.  Getting old is tough.



Al Kresse

Al: What's the PM/C&O photo collection you refer to? It sounds interesting. There have been a few books done by the British Railway Modellers of North America (Some handle) of Pere Marquette and other roads (Wabash and NYC/MC/CASO) through St Thomas and a couple of books of those same roads through Niagara but by and large Canadian modellers seem either unaware or uninterested in them. It's seems a shame to me because they were a very interesting part of railroading in this country. I've posted a couple pictures of St Thomas cars in a folder called King Street Cars and the Speedwitch PM car is waiting for me in the basement. I just need to summon up the energy to get it built. You're right, getting old is not for the faint of heart.

Stephan Parachuk
Toronto

Andy Carlson asked:

Where is the NP boxcar?????
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

It's in Proviso.

Jack

Marty Quaas, formerly of Riverside, CA and now of Alaska, took a picture of the sand car on the link below in May 1964 in Corona, CA. The caption reads, "This car labeled "ENGINE SAND" was just west of the Santa Fe's Corona depot."

The image is from Jim Lancaster's citrus packing house website (http://ljames1.home.netcom.com/scph.html)

Here is the link:

http://www.geocities.com/jim_lancaster.geo/ph/scph/corona_sandcar_5-31-64_01_mq.jpg

or

http://tinyurl.com/cbjnhx

Can anyone identify the origins of this car?

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro
Hemet, Ca

On Mar 9, 2009, at 9:49 AM, gledhilldan wrote:

You mention that you have some twenty photos of their leased tank
cars would you mind listing the Companies involved.I realize some
of their tanks were moving wine,but did they not lease more to oil
companies?

Most of the cars just had CDLX reporting marks and numbers. Only
three of the photos show stenciling for lessees. One is the
relatively well known W. C. Whittaker shot of an STC ARA III painted
aluminum and stenciled for Fruit Industries Ltd. wines. The other
two are an insulated GATC Type 30 and a non-insulated STC car in
asphalt service and stenciled for the Western Asphalt Co. of Santa
Maria.

Richard Hendrickson

Stephan,



I couldn't get St. Thomas out of my brain to save me.  The Canadian Div had special inside arrangements in their cabooses for conductors and I believe special ladders, rails, etc. on their locomotives and tenders.   St. Thomas was agress in getting the early refurbishing and repainting work.  The Wyoming shops seem to do special equipped cars for auto parts.  Is that PM/C&O photo collection available up in your parts?



I almost didn't post the message . . . because of my brain-f#$%@*.  Getting old is tough.



Al Kresse

--- In STMFC@..., water.kresse@... wrote:

Al: Not to be a wise guy (OK maybe a little bit) south of Toronto is Lake Ontario. The PM shops were in St Thomas about 120 miles southwest of here. Those cars were built in Canada and were in general revenue service. They're mentioned in Richard's excellent book on single sheathed boxcars.

Stephan Parachuk
Toronto

Note the secondary (smaller) door have been fixed.   So they are just "house" cars or maybe "auto-parts" cars.  The Canadian Division marked cars were allowed to roam off the mainline I believe (guessing).  The PM did have a Canadian Division.  Their shops south of Toronto repainted these cars right after the merger before the C&O for Progress mono went into affect . . . . supposedly these shops did a fantastic refurbishing and repainting job trying to impress the boys down south.  Apparently there were some unique work rule related tweaks to hardware needed to go off mainline. 

Al Kresse


----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Hendrickson" <rhendrickson@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, March 9, 2009 4:49:43 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Re: [STMFC] C&O single-sheathed 288xxx series auto box car

On Mar 9, 2009, at 12:13 PM, Eric Hansmann wrote:

Here's an interesting C&O single-sheathed auto box car image on  
Fallen Flags:

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/co/co288054jpb.jpg

This is a former Pere Marquette car that Speedwitch is producing as  
an HO scale resin kit.

I can't read the door lettering, but it is interesting to note the  
small lettering above Chesapeake to the right of the doors. It  
seems to read "Canadian Div". Were these marked for tax/customs  
purposes for cars in a pool service between US and Canadian  
manufacturing plants?

Eric, the door stenciling reads "SINGLE DOOR RETURN TO CANADIAN DIV.  
C&O RY. WHEN EMPTY".

Richard Hendrickson



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I purchased a copy of Richard Hendrickson's excellent volume on Single Sheathed Box and Automobile Cars and then in a senior moment bought a second copy. If anyone wants a copy for less than list, make me an offer.
______________
J. Stephen (Steve) Sandifer
mailto:steve.sandifer@...
Home: 12027 Mulholland Drive, Meadows Place, TX 77477, 281-568-9918
Office: Southwest Central Church of Christ, 4011 W. Bellfort, Houston, TX 77025, 713-667-9417

Guys,



Note the secondary (smaller) door have been fixed.   So they are just "house" cars or maybe "auto-parts" cars.  The Canadian Division marked cars were allowed to roam off the mainline I believe (guessing).  The PM did have a Canadian Division.  Their shops south of Toronto repainted these cars right after the merger before the C&O for Progress mono went into affect . . . . supposedly these shops did a fantastic refurbishing and repainting job trying to impress the boys down south.  Apparently there were some unique work rule related tweaks to hardware needed to go off mainline. 



Al Kresse

On Mar 9, 2009, at 12:13 PM, Eric Hansmann wrote:

Here's an interesting C&O single-sheathed auto box car image on
Fallen Flags:

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/co/co288054jpb.jpg

This is a former Pere Marquette car that Speedwitch is producing as
an HO scale resin kit.

I can't read the door lettering, but it is interesting to note the
small lettering above Chesapeake to the right of the doors. It
seems to read "Canadian Div". Were these marked for tax/customs
purposes for cars in a pool service between US and Canadian
manufacturing plants?

Eric, the door stenciling reads "SINGLE DOOR RETURN TO CANADIAN DIV.
C&O RY. WHEN EMPTY".

Richard Hendrickson

Here's an interesting C&O single-sheathed auto box car image on Fallen Flags:

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/co/co288054jpb.jpg

This is a former Pere Marquette car that Speedwitch is producing as an HO scale resin kit.

I can't read the door lettering, but it is interesting to note the small lettering above Chesapeake to the right of the doors. It seems to read "Canadian Div". Were these marked for tax/customs purposes for cars in a pool service between US and Canadian manufacturing plants?

Eric Hansmann
Morgantown, W. Va.
and Chagrin Falls, Ohio

Guys,

I am trying to build a couple of the PRR F23 flats and cannot workout how the
brake gear is fitted to the car. Does any one have a photo of the underside of a completed
model they could either post in the photo album or e-mail to me.

Many thanks!

Patrick Grace
Colchester - UK




E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.0.0.386)
Database version: 5.11910
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--- In STMFC@..., "brianehni" <behni@...> wrote:

Be very careful when ordering from Clover House. These are very nice dry transfers, but many of his decals are much too old for the era Charlie specified. Russ has marked his decals with the approximate dates of service, so make sure you get ones that are the right age.

Brian Ehni

--- In STMFC@..., "sparachuk" <sparachuk@> wrote:

--- In STMFC@..., "Charlie Duckworth" <trduck@> wrote:

I'm probably the last guy on this list to have bought Gene Green's excellent color book on ice reefers. Are there 'good' sources for decals covering the private meat companies around - I model 1954?

Thanks - Charlie

Charlie: One source for a lot of reefer decals is Clover House. They're dry transfers but you can put them on decal paper. Download their catalogue, because it takes too long to read it online. I've got Gene's book and it's a good one.

Stephan Parachuk
Toronto

Charlie: Brian makes a good point about those decals although you can match the illustrations to the photos in Gene's book. There's also a set from Microscale 87-890 that has a few usable lettering combos. Some are a bit weird but some are good and there are lots of dimensional numbers and so on with black backgrounds. Mark Vaughan has some URTX sets as well, for M&StL. I used the URTX lettering plus a small CGW herald to make a car for a friend who was a CGW fan.
That car is in the book too.

Stephan Parachuk
Toronto

--- In STMFC@..., "Brian J Carlson" <brian@...> wrote:

...Also on the same page was an ad for
Dennis Storzek Modelmaker with someone (Dennis) bending a kit of his Soo
Sawtooth boxcar in a twist to show the resin wasn't brittle. These kits have
been updated and are still available...

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY

Well, as long as we're reminiscing... No, those weren't my fingers in the ad, Fred Hamilton (MR's Advertising manager at the time) had the photography done, and since he didn't have the fingers sign a photo release... Actually, I was flat on my back in the hospital with pneumonia when I dreamt up that ad, pneumonia I contracted at the old Model Railroad Industry Association national show in Omaha, where the show was three blocks from the hotel and it was pouring rain one night when the show closed. That was the last of MRIA's "little city" shows; the next year they threw their lot in with RCTHA (the RC industry trade association) to co-sponsor the show at Rosemont (Chicago area.) The ad was intended to counteract what I perceived as being a major obstacle to expanding sales of resin kits; the perception that ALL resin was as brittle and hard to work with as the polyester resin that was common at that time.

Interestingly, even as that ad was in the works, my focus was changing. At that show I was looking for replacements for the CalScale brake equipment I was buying for the kits, since CalScale was in the process of being sold. I was trying to get Grandt Line to tool standard gauge sets (at the time their only brake equipment was a K set with an 8" x 12" narrow gauge cylinder) which happened to be correct for my caboose kit, but nothing else. Dave Grandt wanted some figures on what I expected to order, and after I got out of the hospital, compiling my sales figures revealed just how small the market for resin kits was. I was making more different kits, but my total sales weren't going up. That was an eye opener.

Even before I ended up in the hospital, on the long drive back to Chicago from Omaha, Bob Walker, who as Walker Model Service supplied my white metal parts, and I were discussing other ways to approach the model railroad supply business, and we decided to explore buying a pad-printer. The predecessor to Accurail, Accurate Finishing, was incorporated in December of 1986, between the time I ordered that ad and when it went to print.

Lots of changes, for both me, and the hobby at large.

Dennis Storzek
Accurail, Inc.

Be very careful when ordering from Clover House. These are very nice dry transfers, but many of his decals are much too old for the era Charlie specified. Russ has marked his decals with the approximate dates of service, so make sure you get ones that are the right age.

Brian Ehni

--- In STMFC@..., "Charlie Duckworth" <trduck@...> wrote:

I'm probably the last guy on this list to have bought Gene Green's excellent color book on ice reefers. Are there 'good' sources for decals covering the private meat companies around - I model 1954?

Thanks - Charlie

Charlie: One source for a lot of reefer decals is Clover House. They're dry transfers but you can put them on decal paper. Download their catalogue, because it takes too long to read it online. I've got Gene's book and it's a good one.

Stephan Parachuk
Toronto

I'm probably the last guy on this list to have bought Gene Green's excellent color book on ice reefers. Are there 'good' sources for decals covering the private meat companies around - I model 1954?

Thanks - Charlie

Dan Gledhill wrote:

Since they were a Westcoast Co.did their rise and fall coincide with the early oil boom in Calif.and end with the development of pipelines.

No. The early California oil boom was around 1900, and by 1905, long before CDLX came on the scene, pipelines carried practically all oil produced. Incidentally, this was true everywhere in the 20th century--modelers who envision carrying crude oil at time other than right after a field comes in, are revealing how little they conceive of the volumes of oil which are produced in a commercial field.
Now petroleum PRODUCTS are another story. Many of the innumerable products of refineries were and are carried in tank cars, though pipelines are used for many of the high-volume products.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

--- In STMFC@..., Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...> wrote:

On Mar 8, 2009, at 8:54 AM, Dan Gledhill wrote:

Have been trying to learn more of the Calif.Dispatch Co.and
was wondering if any books or historical publications were ever
written on the subject.
I understand that the Company was absorbed into the GATC in or
around 1954 ,but when did they originate and did they handle
freight cars other than tank cars.

Hello Richard

Thankyou for that very detailed account of CDLX car numbers and Co. early origins.They were obviously not a big player in the tank car leasing game but certainly an early one.Since they were a Westcoast Co.did their rise and fall coincide with the early oil boom in Calif.and end with the development of pipelines.
You mention that you have some twenty photos of their leased tank cars would you mind listing the Companies involved.I realize some of their tanks were moving wine,but did they not lease more to oil companies?
Thanks Again,Dan Gledhill

I'm not aware of any, though some research in the standard business
publications like Standard & Poor's might yield some information. A
quick check of my ORERs indicates that CDL didn't exist in
December, 1911 but was well established by April, 1919, with a fleet
of 170 cars. The number of cars had declined by 1926 to 119 cars,
but - interestingly - some of them were six compartment insulated
cars with wood tanks, presumably for wine service, even though the
Volstead act was in full force at the time. Those cars were second-
hand Pacific Fruit Express refrigerator cars with the bunkers
removed, tanks added and hatch covers over the tanks. I have photos
of two of them, CDLX 279 and CDLX 307, taken after they were retired
but still had billboard advertising on the sides for Italian Swiss
Colony and Bear Creek Vinyards Assn., respectively. By January of
1931 the fleet had grown to 300 cars. By July, 1935 total number of
cars was no longer being reported but the fleet did not appear to
have changed much and the converted reefers were still listed, as
they were also in October, 1938. By October of 1941 the fleet had
continued to grow, with new cars being added, and at least some of
the converted reefers were still shown (though after 1938 they could
not have been used in interchange service with billboard advertising
for wineries on them). By July, 1943, the fleet total was being
reported again and numbered 372 cars, with at least some of the
reefers still listed. The 1-45 ORER shows 351 cars and the converted
reefers were gone. By 1-53 the number of cars had grown again to
427, some of which were new postwar insulated high pressure cars for
liquified petroleum gas and anhydrous ammonia service. By 1-55 their
cars still had CDLX reporting marks but were listed under General
American, so 1954 would be about right for their acquisition by
GATC. Aside from the reefers converted into wine tank cars, CDL
apparently never operated anything but tank cars, though their tank
cars varied widely in type and in the commodities that were carried
in them.

BTW, if you pursue your idea of having decal sets made for CDLX car,
keep me posted. I have twenty or so photos of CDLX cars which could
be used as reference data.

Richard Hendrickson



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In STMFC@..., Frederick Freitas <prrinvt@...> wrote:

GUYZ,
 
           Since most of us have had this experience, might I suggest this >>>
Pick up a leather apron; attach bottom hem to under surface of workbench; do not forget to wear same to protect "valuables". If you can't picture it; look in the Micro-Scale catalog. They sell one mad of canvass, IIRC, that does the same thing. Yes, I learned the hard way too.!
 
Fred Freitas

Really good leather aprons are sold at welding supply stores. As for me, I think I shall switch to a much safer hobby such as bull-fighting.

Gene Green

Thanks Brian,

For reminding me of that Westrail car. Until the InterMountain cars arrive, it's still the only Santa Fe war emergency boxcar on my roster. Western Model RR Equipment Co. (Westrail) was the enterprise of our own Richard Hendrickson, of course, but when I looked up that kit review I was reminded that two other friends were involved in this kit. Lloyd Keyser made the masters and Ron Roberts made the decals. Even by today's standards, I think it's still a good-looking car.

So long,

Andy

Andy Sperandeo
Executive Editor
Model Railroader magazine
asperandeo@...
262-796-8776, ext. 461
FAX 262-796-1142