On Feb 14, 2009, at 6:46 AM, Brian J Carlson wrote:

On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 21:12:27 -0800, Richard Hendrickson wrote

Brian, none of the Bx-38 "War Emergency" box cars were ever

stenciled with maps/slogans or with the later slogans and S&T.

Thanks Richard, that is what I suspected. As a followup question,
did any
receive all steel doors post war, the model shows composite doors,
and is
there anything obvious in the artwork shown on the IM site that is
different
circa 1957. (lines above and belove reporting marks, periods in the
reporting marks, etc.)

There is no evidence that the Bx-38s had their doors replaced until
they were rebuilt as all-steel cars beginning in 1959 (and, BTW, only
191 of the 300 cars were rebuilt then; the rest were rebuilt with
shock control underframes in 1963 and reclassified Bx-78). All, or
almost all, of the Bx-38s would have been repainted at some time
between 1944 and 1957, but I have never seen good photos of a
repainted car. I do have one partial photo, however, which shows
ATSF 129718 repainted in 1953 with a 3' square herald in the side bay
closest to the end (the only place it would fit) rather then the
original 2' square herald above the reporting marks and numbers.
Other stenciling, what can be seen of it, was the same as when the
cars were new, and in approximately the same location. And this car
still had its original composite door.

http://irailway.qwestoffice.net/
I assume most of these answers are in the Santa Fe Boxcars book but I
haven't been able to locate a copy yet.

Locating a copy couldn't be easier, as the book is still in print.
Go to the Santa Fe RH&MS website - www.atsfrr.com - then click on
company store, then click on books.

Richard Hendrickson

Richard

That's cool. But as I'm sure you know, there's more than 2
roofs for the cars - I can think of at least 4.

Tim

--- In STMFC@..., "Schuyler Larrabee" <schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote:

--- In STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , "Schuyler

Larrabee"

<schuyler.larrabee@> wrote:

The question has come up about why IM doesn't do the same level of quality work

they

have done in

the somewhat more distant past.

Hi Schuyler and group, I strongly disagree with Schuyler's statement. I think the

quality of

IM's work currently is great! The most recent example being the ACF 1958 cf covered
hopper. Having built several of the kits, I think it is the BEST1 model I've ever built.

Other

recent goodies IM that I've built include the ATSF Caswell Gon, the ATSF stock cars

and the

USRA gon. Regards, Don Smith

Actually, Don, I don't disagree with your remarks about the quality of the kits or built-

up models.

They are really very well done. But others were suggesting that some color choices were

less than

accurate, and there have been some very difficult "birthing" of models at IM, that have

required

multiple iterations of dies being cut in order to get them "right on" in the end. I am

involved

with a special run of cars being done with IM, and they managed to run the wrong

combination of

roof, sides and ends even though there was an approved work order stipulating the

correct

combination. To their credit, they have taken them back and will re-run them. On

another order,

we've rather tested their patience, I think, in multiple iterations of the lettering, but in

the

end, those will be "right on" too. It's just not easy to get there. (BTW, both of these are

STMFC

cars of interest, and when they are available, I'll be mentioning them here.)

I especially agree with your remarks about the 1958 cf hopper. I've bought three

assembled

versions, and the level of complexity and accuracy of detail is very admirable. The

models

discussed in the "Is this a new model" thread yesterday have different roofs to accurately

do

different roads. But these cars follow some years when IM products were a bit more

"chancy" than

these are. This is a good trend.

SGL

Hi Schuyler, In your post to which I initially responded you accused IM of disregarding
quality in their rush to get product to market. Now, in this post you describe their
willingness to make changes to improve the quality of an initially less than optimal
product. It seems to me that your statement of the first post is contradicted by those of
your second post. Regards, Don Smith

On Feb 14, 2009, at 11:18 AM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

P.S. The ACF 1958 is a fine model, but it has the wrong roof
for many prototypes. I sense an opportunity for resin minikits!

Tim, before someone goes to the trouble of making replacement roofs,
IM assures us that they plan to do the ATSF, MP, etc. cars with the
correct roofs at some point in the not too distant future.

Richard Hendrickson

Andy, if IRC was keeping pace with Kadee, they'd have 4 or 5
different models by now... Everyone seems to be saying IRC is
inconsistent. So what else is new? So is Atlas. So is Athearn.
So is Red Caboose. So is Sunshine! Over on the MFCL we've been
whacking away at the new Exactrail. (Chris Clune's new company.)
Guess what? Not exactly right!!

There's only one Kadee, unfortunately. And for those who care,
many of their cars have incorrect trucks, running boards, and
even occasionally, incorrect paint jobs.

Stuff happens. We deal with it.

Tim O'Connor

P.S. The ACF 1958 is a fine model, but it has the wrong roof
for many prototypes. I sense an opportunity for resin minikits!

...He seemed amazed, and though I know Frank isn't a technical guy,
to me it spoke volumes about the lack of CONSISTENT seriousness at
IM. Frank needn't know the right color, but others at IM sure should.

Intermountain has always had trouble retaining individuals who know
such things without having to look them up. They are hired, but don't
stay.

Tom Madden

Andy Carlson wrote:

When defining what a great car is, we all select different areas in which we focus our attention and importance . . .

Last fall, at the SP Historical Society meeting in Bakersfield, I spent some time talking to IM's Frank Angstead and looking at the sample models he was displaying. I commented that the Daylight Orange paint on their sample Daylight passenger car was pretty muddy and too brown. He said, "Well, how do we fix it?" I replied, "It's the same color as PFE orange, and though you don't ALWAYS get it right on PFE cars, usually you're very accurate. So use that." He seemed amazed, and though I know Frank isn't a technical guy, to me it spoke volumes about the lack of CONSISTENT seriousness at IM. Frank needn't know the right color, but others at IM sure should.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

Mike,

You wrote, "Wait 'til you see my rocket launching car next Jan."

I thought we weren't going to announce the 2010 Shake-N-Take until later...

-Jeff

Tony,

Being gone for well over a year it seems like we are
at the same spot checking out Helium. Guess I haven't
lost anything!

Russ

Perhaps I can lay claim to a "law?"

The amount of email traffic on the STMFC list is in inverse proportion to the prevalence of the
subject car in the prototype.

SGL

--- On Sat, 2/14/09, Don Smith <rgs0554@... <mailto:rgs0554%40yahoo.com> > wrote:
I think the quality of

IM's work currently is great!

When defining what a great car is, we all select different areas in which we focus our attention

and importance. A truly

great car will impress nearly everyone and will be universally applauded. IM's ACF covered hopper

is worthy of praise,

and so is the much earlier Santa Fe refrigerator car. The USRA Gondola is severely compromised

with the combined

steel structural assembly with the horrible laser scribed wood-the car looks awful. One need to

look at the recently

released GN plywood sheathed 40' box car to see a car designed haphazardly with little intent of

greatness on the model

designer's part. The ART refrigerator car is almost as bad as the 1st R-40-10, the car that

eventually turned out fairly

well after several modelers, most who frequent this list, held IM to the fire. IM isn't fortunate

enough to have JP keep

his eye on product development in Colorado.

Intermountain seems to be content with the cruising through College with c- grades. We are

fortunate that Kadee gets

straight A's.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

Correct, Andy. The CRITICAL word in Don's remark is "currently."

SGL

Tony,

Being gone for well over a year it seems like we are
at the same spot checking out Helium. Guess I haven't
lost anything!

Russ

--- On Sat, 2/14/09, Don Smith <rgs0554@...> wrote:
I think the quality of

IM's work currently is great!

When defining what a great car is, we all select different areas in which we focus our attention and importance. A truly great car will impress nearly everyone and will be universally applauded. IM's ACF covered hopper is worthy of praise, and so is the much earlier Santa Fe refrigerator car. The USRA Gondola is severely compromised with the combined steel structural assembly with the horrible laser scribed wood-the car looks awful. One need to look at the recently released GN plywood sheathed 40' box car to see a car designed haphazardly with little intent of greatness on the model designer's part. The ART refrigerator car is almost as bad as the 1st R-40-10, the car that eventually turned out fairly well after several modelers, most who frequent this list, held IM to the fire. IM isn't fortunate enough to have JP keep his eye on product development in Colorado.

Intermountain seems to be content with the cruising through College with c- grades. We are fortunate that Kadee gets straight A's.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

--- In STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , "Schuyler Larrabee"
<schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote:

The question has come up about why IM doesn't do the same level of quality work they

have done in

the somewhat more distant past.

Hi Schuyler and group, I strongly disagree with Schuyler's statement. I think the quality of
IM's work currently is great! The most recent example being the ACF 1958 cf covered
hopper. Having built several of the kits, I think it is the BEST1 model I've ever built. Other
recent goodies IM that I've built include the ATSF Caswell Gon, the ATSF stock cars and the
USRA gon. Regards, Don Smith

Actually, Don, I don't disagree with your remarks about the quality of the kits or built-up models.
They are really very well done. But others were suggesting that some color choices were less than
accurate, and there have been some very difficult "birthing" of models at IM, that have required
multiple iterations of dies being cut in order to get them "right on" in the end. I am involved
with a special run of cars being done with IM, and they managed to run the wrong combination of
roof, sides and ends even though there was an approved work order stipulating the correct
combination. To their credit, they have taken them back and will re-run them. On another order,
we've rather tested their patience, I think, in multiple iterations of the lettering, but in the
end, those will be "right on" too. It's just not easy to get there. (BTW, both of these are STMFC
cars of interest, and when they are available, I'll be mentioning them here.)

I especially agree with your remarks about the 1958 cf hopper. I've bought three assembled
versions, and the level of complexity and accuracy of detail is very admirable. The models
discussed in the "Is this a new model" thread yesterday have different roofs to accurately do
different roads. But these cars follow some years when IM products were a bit more "chancy" than
these are. This is a good trend.

SGL

Brian,

Can you offer any insight as to the accuracy of the NKP car?

Jim Brewer
Glenwood, MD

The maligned PRB car is already heavy.
--
Thanks!

Brian Ehni



From: Bruce Smith <smithbf@...>
Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 16:47:40 -0600 (CST)
To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Helium Cars




On Fri, February 13, 2009 4:34 pm, Tim O'Connor wrote:

But if -every- tube is represented on the model, it must
weigh a ton!! Last night I weighed a Jaeger products poles
load (60 short sticks) and they weigh 2oz. Imagine if all
those sticks were made of brass...

Tim O'Connor

Tim,

You've got to "lighten up" man! Obviously, you fill them with HELIUM
<VBG>. Seriously though, you would use TUBING not SOLID ROD... That
would result in a nicely weighted car.

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

Rich C (don't know his last name) wrote:

I don't know if it has been mentioned, but the capacity of the
prototype is 200,000 lbs! Most cars were built with special heavier
duty trucks, both friction bearing and in the sixties roller

bearing.

All were retired by 1998+/-.

Glad you said "+", since I saw several of them on the siding at
Cape Canaveral in 2006.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

I photographed MAHX 1301 and 1047 at Oro Grande, NM on a US Army siding
adjacent to White Sands Missile Range in June 1982 and MAHX 1211-A &
1211-B at Rincon, New Mexico on the Santa Fe in December 1989. The car
numbers 1211-A & 1211-B suggest a permanently couple pair of cars but I
don't recall ever checking that while I was there.

Gene Green

On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 21:12:27 -0800, Richard Hendrickson wrote

Brian, none of the Bx-38 "War Emergency" box cars were ever

stenciled with maps/slogans or with the later slogans and S&T.

Thanks Richard, that is what I suspected. As a followup question, did any
receive all steel doors post war, the model shows composite doors, and is
there anything obvious in the artwork shown on the IM site that is different
circa 1957. (lines above and belove reporting marks, periods in the
reporting marks, etc.)

http://irailway.qwestoffice.net/
I assume most of these answers are in the Santa Fe Boxcars book but I
haven't been able to locate a copy yet.
Brian Carlson

--- In STMFC@..., "Schuyler Larrabee" <schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote:

The question has come up about why IM doesn't do the same level of quality work they

have done in

the somewhat more distant past.

Hi Schuyler and group, I strongly disagree with Schuyler's statement. I think the quality of
IM's work currently is great! The most recent example being the ACF 1958 cf covered
hopper. Having built several of the kits, I think it is the BEST1 model I've ever built. Other
recent goodies IM that I've built include the ATSF Caswell Gon, the ATSF stock cars and the
USRA gon. Regards, Don Smith

Hello Everybody,

Helium tank cars had a siding on Brookpark Rd. next to the Chevy plant in
Brookpark, OH (Cleveland). This was a reciprical yard of the B&O and NYC. The unloading facility is gone now. They may have been for NASA. Akron, OH, of course, is home for the blimps and they use helium. Anyone want to model a blimp dock for your helium cars?

John

Rich C (don't know his last name) wrote:

I don't know if it has been mentioned, but the capacity of the prototype is 200,000 lbs! Most cars were built with special heavier duty trucks, both friction bearing and in the sixties roller bearing. All were retired by 1998+/-.

Glad you said "+", since I saw several of them on the siding at Cape Canaveral in 2006.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history