Date   

Re: Reefer Block trains on Southeastern Lines-photos and Time Tables sought

water.kresse@...
 

Bill,

As mentioned before, my memory is short lived, but I believe there was at least a second train, not just No. 97 during the peach season. The C&O and CC&O FAST FREIGHT or TIMED FREIGHT train numbers were coordinated at some date it appears. They also worked together to shorten total in transit times (and needed re-icing stops) from the groves to the market over time. There are notes referencing last locations were un-assigned produce would be handled (i.e. the C&O wanted someone to charge when they got to splitting up for the Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland, etc. produce markets). You also didn't want meat reefers coming out of Chicago or Louisville wanting to be iced at the same time as the northbound produce reefers.

Al

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "lnbill" <bwelch@...>
Dear Al:

I cannot say for certain if the CC&O's Challengers were used
specificaly for peach movements as I am uncertain if there were
other produce trains aside from #97. I am just beginning to look
into this aspect of FGE/WFE/BRE's business.

Bill

--- In STMFC@..., water.kresse@... wrote:

Bill,

Did the Clinchfield actually use their Challanger's to pull their
Peach Specials and such? I've seen pix of Clinchfield 4-6-6-4's
pulling southbound C&O Fast Freights with reefers with a single 2-8-
4s up the hill into their Elkton(?) C&O-Clinchfield exchange yard.

Al

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "lnbill" <bwelch@...>
As a part of the book I am researching on the Fruit Growers
Express/
Western Fruit Express/Burlington Refrigerator Express reefer
consortium, I would love to have photos of the various railroads
that
had trains of nothing but reefer blocks. For example the
Clinchfield's
Train #97 pulled by one of their 4-6-6-4's or the SAL's "The
Marketer."

Frank Audrey and R.D Sharpless are credited in many of the books I
own
with southeastern photos of these specific trains and others and
David
Salter who lives somewhere in Colorado owns the photos of these two
men. Does anyone on this list know how to be get in contact with
Mr.
Salter?

Also, it would seem that readers would enjoy information regarding
the
schedules of these trains, so I am curious if there are collectors
among the freight car group of Time Tables for the Southern,
Clinchfield (or CC&O), ACL, SAL, CofG, FEC and other roads in this
region that moved large numbers of reefers northerly that would be
willing to share time tables with me to scan? I would of course
pay
all insurance and postage costs associated with such help. Or
perhaps
you know of collectors that I can reach out to.

Please respond to bwelch@... if you can help. I would appreciate
not getting inquiries about the book as between my paying job,
building models, and assembling resources, I feel like I cannot
answer
questions like this. I can tell everyone that all sorts on
incredible
treasures have come my way over the last several months and I am
grateful beyond words for how generous people have been in helping
me
and that baring something happening to me, this thing will get
done.

Thank you for any help you can be!

Bill Welch






Re: Reefer Block trains on Southeastern Lines-photos and Time Tables sought

lnbill <bwelch@...>
 

Dear Al:

I cannot say for certain if the CC&O's Challengers were used
specificaly for peach movements as I am uncertain if there were
other produce trains aside from #97. I am just beginning to look
into this aspect of FGE/WFE/BRE's business.

Bill


--- In STMFC@..., water.kresse@... wrote:

Bill,

Did the Clinchfield actually use their Challanger's to pull their
Peach Specials and such? I've seen pix of Clinchfield 4-6-6-4's
pulling southbound C&O Fast Freights with reefers with a single 2-8-
4s up the hill into their Elkton(?) C&O-Clinchfield exchange yard.

Al

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "lnbill" <bwelch@...>
As a part of the book I am researching on the Fruit Growers
Express/
Western Fruit Express/Burlington Refrigerator Express reefer
consortium, I would love to have photos of the various railroads
that
had trains of nothing but reefer blocks. For example the
Clinchfield's
Train #97 pulled by one of their 4-6-6-4's or the SAL's "The
Marketer."

Frank Audrey and R.D Sharpless are credited in many of the books I
own
with southeastern photos of these specific trains and others and
David
Salter who lives somewhere in Colorado owns the photos of these two
men. Does anyone on this list know how to be get in contact with
Mr.
Salter?

Also, it would seem that readers would enjoy information regarding
the
schedules of these trains, so I am curious if there are collectors
among the freight car group of Time Tables for the Southern,
Clinchfield (or CC&O), ACL, SAL, CofG, FEC and other roads in this
region that moved large numbers of reefers northerly that would be
willing to share time tables with me to scan? I would of course
pay
all insurance and postage costs associated with such help. Or
perhaps
you know of collectors that I can reach out to.

Please respond to bwelch@... if you can help. I would appreciate
not getting inquiries about the book as between my paying job,
building models, and assembling resources, I feel like I cannot
answer
questions like this. I can tell everyone that all sorts on
incredible
treasures have come my way over the last several months and I am
grateful beyond words for how generous people have been in helping
me
and that baring something happening to me, this thing will get
done.

Thank you for any help you can be!

Bill Welch




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Reefer Block trains on Southeastern Lines-photos and Time Tables sought

water.kresse@...
 

Al,

How old is this book and who is the publisher? C&O agents up north would consolidate these time tables for the various southeastern rwys interconnecting with the C&O (and later, C&O and B&O) and publish them as typical times at the beginning of each SE "veggie and fruit produce" shipping season. The C&O-Chinchfield-FGE operation appears to have been very tightly coordinated and received great attention in C&O Chf Engr letter files supporting AFE's when there were bottlenecks in the C&O's yards.

What I find interesting in these files was that the FGE was asking the C&O to expand their re-icing facilities for quicker re-icings supporting the Southeast to Midwestern produce market specials as the FGE was testing mechanical refrigeration in the mid/late-50s.

Al Kresse

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "al_brown03" <abrown@...>
Goforth's "When Steam Ran the Clinchfield", pp 69 and 85, shows
Clinchfield Challengers with northbound reefer blocks operating as
first-class Train 97, the "Florida Perishable". Both photos are
credited to Floyd Bruner. The same book, pp 5-6, shows a timetable.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

--- In STMFC@..., water.kresse@... wrote:

Bill,

Did the Clinchfield actually use their Challanger's to pull their
Peach Specials and such? I've seen pix of Clinchfield 4-6-6-4's
pulling southbound C&O Fast Freights with reefers with a single 2-8-
4s up the hill into their Elkton(?) C&O-Clinchfield exchange yard.

Al

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "lnbill" <bwelch@...>
As a part of the book I am researching on the Fruit Growers Express/
Western Fruit Express/Burlington Refrigerator Express reefer
consortium, I would love to have photos of the various railroads
that
had trains of nothing but reefer blocks. For example the
Clinchfield's
Train #97 pulled by one of their 4-6-6-4's or the SAL's "The
Marketer."

Frank Audrey and R.D Sharpless are credited in many of the books I
own
with southeastern photos of these specific trains and others and
David
Salter who lives somewhere in Colorado owns the photos of these two
men. Does anyone on this list know how to be get in contact with Mr.
Salter?

Also, it would seem that readers would enjoy information regarding
the
schedules of these trains, so I am curious if there are collectors
among the freight car group of Time Tables for the Southern,
Clinchfield (or CC&O), ACL, SAL, CofG, FEC and other roads in this
region that moved large numbers of reefers northerly that would be
willing to share time tables with me to scan? I would of course pay
all insurance and postage costs associated with such help. Or
perhaps
you know of collectors that I can reach out to.

Please respond to bwelch@... if you can help. I would appreciate
not getting inquiries about the book as between my paying job,
building models, and assembling resources, I feel like I cannot
answer
questions like this. I can tell everyone that all sorts on
incredible
treasures have come my way over the last several months and I am
grateful beyond words for how generous people have been in helping
me
and that baring something happening to me, this thing will get done.

Thank you for any help you can be!

Bill Welch






Re: Reefer Block trains on Southeastern Lines-photos and Time Tables sought

al_brown03
 

Goforth's "When Steam Ran the Clinchfield", pp 69 and 85, shows
Clinchfield Challengers with northbound reefer blocks operating as
first-class Train 97, the "Florida Perishable". Both photos are
credited to Floyd Bruner. The same book, pp 5-6, shows a timetable.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.


--- In STMFC@..., water.kresse@... wrote:

Bill,

Did the Clinchfield actually use their Challanger's to pull their
Peach Specials and such? I've seen pix of Clinchfield 4-6-6-4's
pulling southbound C&O Fast Freights with reefers with a single 2-8-
4s up the hill into their Elkton(?) C&O-Clinchfield exchange yard.

Al

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "lnbill" <bwelch@...>
As a part of the book I am researching on the Fruit Growers Express/
Western Fruit Express/Burlington Refrigerator Express reefer
consortium, I would love to have photos of the various railroads
that
had trains of nothing but reefer blocks. For example the
Clinchfield's
Train #97 pulled by one of their 4-6-6-4's or the SAL's "The
Marketer."

Frank Audrey and R.D Sharpless are credited in many of the books I
own
with southeastern photos of these specific trains and others and
David
Salter who lives somewhere in Colorado owns the photos of these two
men. Does anyone on this list know how to be get in contact with Mr.
Salter?

Also, it would seem that readers would enjoy information regarding
the
schedules of these trains, so I am curious if there are collectors
among the freight car group of Time Tables for the Southern,
Clinchfield (or CC&O), ACL, SAL, CofG, FEC and other roads in this
region that moved large numbers of reefers northerly that would be
willing to share time tables with me to scan? I would of course pay
all insurance and postage costs associated with such help. Or
perhaps
you know of collectors that I can reach out to.

Please respond to bwelch@... if you can help. I would appreciate
not getting inquiries about the book as between my paying job,
building models, and assembling resources, I feel like I cannot
answer
questions like this. I can tell everyone that all sorts on
incredible
treasures have come my way over the last several months and I am
grateful beyond words for how generous people have been in helping
me
and that baring something happening to me, this thing will get done.

Thank you for any help you can be!

Bill Welch




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


The Keystone Modeler - September 2008

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

The September 2008 issue of The Keystone Modeler, featuring "Class
X37B, the Sunshine Kit" by Elden Gatwood is online at
http://www.prrths.com/Keystone%20Modeler/Keystone_Modeler.htm


Ben Hom


Re: Reefer Block trains on Southeastern Lines-photos and Time Tables sought

water.kresse@...
 

Bill,

Did the Clinchfield actually use their Challanger's to pull their Peach Specials and such? I've seen pix of Clinchfield 4-6-6-4's pulling southbound C&O Fast Freights with reefers with a single 2-8-4s up the hill into their Elkton(?) C&O-Clinchfield exchange yard.

Al

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "lnbill" <bwelch@...>
As a part of the book I am researching on the Fruit Growers Express/
Western Fruit Express/Burlington Refrigerator Express reefer
consortium, I would love to have photos of the various railroads that
had trains of nothing but reefer blocks. For example the Clinchfield's
Train #97 pulled by one of their 4-6-6-4's or the SAL's "The
Marketer."

Frank Audrey and R.D Sharpless are credited in many of the books I own
with southeastern photos of these specific trains and others and David
Salter who lives somewhere in Colorado owns the photos of these two
men. Does anyone on this list know how to be get in contact with Mr.
Salter?

Also, it would seem that readers would enjoy information regarding the
schedules of these trains, so I am curious if there are collectors
among the freight car group of Time Tables for the Southern,
Clinchfield (or CC&O), ACL, SAL, CofG, FEC and other roads in this
region that moved large numbers of reefers northerly that would be
willing to share time tables with me to scan? I would of course pay
all insurance and postage costs associated with such help. Or perhaps
you know of collectors that I can reach out to.

Please respond to bwelch@... if you can help. I would appreciate
not getting inquiries about the book as between my paying job,
building models, and assembling resources, I feel like I cannot answer
questions like this. I can tell everyone that all sorts on incredible
treasures have come my way over the last several months and I am
grateful beyond words for how generous people have been in helping me
and that baring something happening to me, this thing will get done.

Thank you for any help you can be!

Bill Welch


Re: Reefer Block trains on Southeastern Lines-photos and Time Tables sought

water.kresse@...
 

Bill,

Relative to time tables, the C&O/B&O time tables and advertisements for specific seasons with agents are available through Tom Dixon, via TLC Publishing. I only have Zerox copies. The C&O advertised the "Chinchfield Route" and definitely had coordination. I used and referenced them in my two C&O History Magazine articles on th FGE re-icing stations at Clifton Forge and Russell. I offered you copies of these articles, but because of website problems on your end, I do not believe I received a response. I had to chop a lot out my articles to stay within page limits. I believe the Penn RR re-icing station in Columbus, is a near copy of the C&O's CliftonForge platform . . . implying a "standard" 1935 platform design from FGE's engineering offices.

I'm looking for C&O Stevens Yard and Peru Yard (and the new 1000 ft long "phantom" 1956-ish Russell westbound) re-icing platform photos to wrap up the C&O's side of the story prior to mechanical refrig taking over.

Please contact me off line.

Al Kresse
Romeo, Michigan

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "lnbill" <bwelch@...>
As a part of the book I am researching on the Fruit Growers Express/
Western Fruit Express/Burlington Refrigerator Express reefer
consortium, I would love to have photos of the various railroads that
had trains of nothing but reefer blocks. For example the Clinchfield's
Train #97 pulled by one of their 4-6-6-4's or the SAL's "The
Marketer."

Frank Audrey and R.D Sharpless are credited in many of the books I own
with southeastern photos of these specific trains and others and David
Salter who lives somewhere in Colorado owns the photos of these two
men. Does anyone on this list know how to be get in contact with Mr.
Salter?

Also, it would seem that readers would enjoy information regarding the
schedules of these trains, so I am curious if there are collectors
among the freight car group of Time Tables for the Southern,
Clinchfield (or CC&O), ACL, SAL, CofG, FEC and other roads in this
region that moved large numbers of reefers northerly that would be
willing to share time tables with me to scan? I would of course pay
all insurance and postage costs associated with such help. Or perhaps
you know of collectors that I can reach out to.

Please respond to bwelch@... if you can help. I would appreciate
not getting inquiries about the book as between my paying job,
building models, and assembling resources, I feel like I cannot answer
questions like this. I can tell everyone that all sorts on incredible
treasures have come my way over the last several months and I am
grateful beyond words for how generous people have been in helping me
and that baring something happening to me, this thing will get done.

Thank you for any help you can be!

Bill Welch


Re: Stockcar Photos Uploaded

Charlie Vlk
 

The CB&Q had "Drovers Cars" which were built to the standard 30 Ft wood waycar plan (1906 is one year they were built).
The old Trains, Inc. (later Signal House and LMB) CB&Q Wood Waycar was actually built following the Drovers Car of 1906
and has the end windows and stove on the side opposite normal wood waycars, The window on the end at the dry hopper
(toilet) should be a high small one in any case.
The Q Drovers Cars differed from an ordinary waycar only in having more bunks (double deck), and there was a bunk/seat facing rearwards
where there would normally be an equipment locker. The conductor's desk and normal railroad-related supplies (flags, fusees,
lanterns, etc..) were also not stored in the car, although there was a normal cupola with standard seats.
They also had "boarding cars" which were waycar-like in construction but longer and riding on standard No.2 passenger trucks.
They did not have cupolas and it is not certain if these were used as drovers cars or were strictly camp cars for work train
service.
The passenger combines that had cupolas could have been used for drovers but probably were "branchline waycars" used in mixed
trains on secondary lines.
Model Railroaders tend to confuse the term "Drovers Caboose" with any caboose that has a baggage door on the side. Many, if not
most, drovers cabooses did not have baggage doors, although their inclusion would have made it easier for the cowboys to load their
saddles and gear onboard.
Charlie Vlk

----- Original Message -----
From: Anthony Thompson
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 2:34 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Stockcar Photos Uploaded


Dennis Storzek wrote:
> Not all railroads used the classic long drover's caboose. Some roads
> just accommodated the drovers in the regular caboose (not popular with
> the crews, I'm sure) . . .

On the SP, a second standard caboose was often attached for the
drovers' use.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






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Reefer Block trains on Southeastern Lines-photos and Time Tables sought

lnbill <bwelch@...>
 

As a part of the book I am researching on the Fruit Growers Express/
Western Fruit Express/Burlington Refrigerator Express reefer
consortium, I would love to have photos of the various railroads that
had trains of nothing but reefer blocks. For example the Clinchfield's
Train #97 pulled by one of their 4-6-6-4's or the SAL's "The
Marketer."

Frank Audrey and R.D Sharpless are credited in many of the books I own
with southeastern photos of these specific trains and others and David
Salter who lives somewhere in Colorado owns the photos of these two
men. Does anyone on this list know how to be get in contact with Mr.
Salter?

Also, it would seem that readers would enjoy information regarding the
schedules of these trains, so I am curious if there are collectors
among the freight car group of Time Tables for the Southern,
Clinchfield (or CC&O), ACL, SAL, CofG, FEC and other roads in this
region that moved large numbers of reefers northerly that would be
willing to share time tables with me to scan? I would of course pay
all insurance and postage costs associated with such help. Or perhaps
you know of collectors that I can reach out to.

Please respond to bwelch@... if you can help. I would appreciate
not getting inquiries about the book as between my paying job,
building models, and assembling resources, I feel like I cannot answer
questions like this. I can tell everyone that all sorts on incredible
treasures have come my way over the last several months and I am
grateful beyond words for how generous people have been in helping me
and that baring something happening to me, this thing will get done.

Thank you for any help you can be!


Bill Welch


Re: Stockcar Photos Uploaded

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Dennis Storzek wrote:
Not all railroads used the classic long drover's caboose. Some roads just accommodated the drovers in the regular caboose (not popular with the crews, I'm sure) . . .
On the SP, a second standard caboose was often attached for the drovers' use.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Stockcar Photos Uploaded

Dennis Storzek <destorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., water.kresse@... wrote:

Folks,

Being raised in the subs of Chicago, and having relatives in
Redfield, South Dakota, who tell me that my grandfather would ride the
train with his cattle or pigs to the "stock yard" for insuring a fair
auction with the big boys . . . . should know more about these
drovers. Where they hired to travel with livestock or were they the
owners of the livestock? or both? When did they stop using those
large cabooses (saw one in a museum in Saint Cloud, Wisc?) with extra
bunk beds?

Al Kresse
Drovers could be either owners or employees. If I recall what I read
correctly, each shipment of a carload or more entitled one drover to
free transportation, with a coupon good for one way coach fare back to
his point of origin.

Not all railroads used the classic long drover's caboose. Some roads
just accommodated the drovers in the regular caboose (not popular with
the crews, I'm sure) while others, such as the Soo Line rebuilt old
coaches for the service. On the Soo, the drovers cars had all the
seats removed from one end of the car and permanent bunks built in
their place. The drovers were responsible for supplying their own
blankets and bedding.

There was an account of a stock trip on the Soo Line "wheat line"
across northern North Dakota a couple years ago in The SOO, the
magazine of the Soo Line Historical & Technical Society. Back issues
can be ordered here:

http://sooline.org/publications/theSOO/past.html

You want Spring 2004, Vol.26 No.2


Dennis


Re: Stockcar Photos Uploaded

water.kresse@...
 

Folks,

Being raised in the subs of Chicago, and having relatives in Redfield, South Dakota, who tell me that my grandfather would ride the train with his cattle or pigs to the "stock yard" for insuring a fair auction with the big boys . . . . should know more about these drovers. Where they hired to travel with livestock or were they the owners of the livestock? or both? When did they stop using those large cabooses (saw one in a museum in Saint Cloud, Wisc?) with extra bunk beds?

Al Kresse

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Andy Sperandeo" <asperandeo@...>
Hi Al,

That door at the top of the end was called a drover's door, and its purpose was to let
stockmen accompanying a shipment look in to see if the animals were okay. Later classes of
similar cars -- and there were a lot of them -- came with toe holes cut into the end siding
below the drover's door. The Sk-Q class of 250 cars (ATSF 68600-68849) was built in 1928
by the Pennsylvania Car Co. (of Kansas City!).

So long,

Andy


Re: PSC Hose Brackets

pierreoliver2003 <pierre.oliver@...>
 

If they look as good as they sound, I'm prepared to buy a great pile
of them. A gross or more. As they say a picture is worth a thousand
words.
Pierre Oliver

--- In STMFC@..., Mont Switzer <mhts_switzerm@...> wrote:

Tom,
 
Yes, they look great.  I use PSC brass air hoses in the
to eliminate broken air hoses laying around the layout.  Not bullet
proof, but close.
 
Credit for the project should go to pattern makers Chad Boas,
Dennis Storzek and advocate with PSC Denny Anspach.
 
Buy lots of them so PSC will listen when Denny speaks.
 
Mont Switzer

--- On Wed, 9/10/08, Tom Lawler <tjlawler@...> wrote:

From: Tom Lawler <tjlawler@...>
Subject: [STMFC] PSC Hose Brackets
To: "Steam Era Freight Cars Group" <STMFC@...>
Date: Wednesday, September 10, 2008, 10:17 AM






Hi all,

I ordered and received a bunch of the new PSC Hose Brackets after
hearing about them on this list. I was really hoping they looked
good
since I ordered them sight-unseen. Yesterday I put my first set
onto a
car I was building and I think they look great. It took some slow
drilling open up the casting where the U bolt attaches the air hose
to
the bracket but I managed to eventually get a #76 hole drilled. I
also
managed to get a plastic (Detail Associates I think) air hose
attached.

All-in-all very nice looking and a part that was sorely needed for
us
guys who hate the look of Kadee trip pins. I forget who was
mentioned
about working with PSC to get this part done but a big THANK YOU to
you.
There are 8 castings in a package.

Tom Lawler

E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (5.5.1.322)
Database version: 5.10640e
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: PSC Hose Brackets

Mont Switzer <mhts_switzerm@...>
 

Tom,
 
Yes, they look great.  I use PSC brass air hoses in the to eliminate broken air hoses laying around the layout.  Not bullet proof, but close.
 
Credit for the project should go to pattern makers Chad Boas, Dennis Storzek and advocate with PSC Denny Anspach.
 
Buy lots of them so PSC will listen when Denny speaks.
 
Mont Switzer

--- On Wed, 9/10/08, Tom Lawler <tjlawler@...> wrote:

From: Tom Lawler <tjlawler@...>
Subject: [STMFC] PSC Hose Brackets
To: "Steam Era Freight Cars Group" <STMFC@...>
Date: Wednesday, September 10, 2008, 10:17 AM






Hi all,

I ordered and received a bunch of the new PSC Hose Brackets after
hearing about them on this list. I was really hoping they looked good
since I ordered them sight-unseen. Yesterday I put my first set onto a
car I was building and I think they look great. It took some slow
drilling open up the casting where the U bolt attaches the air hose to
the bracket but I managed to eventually get a #76 hole drilled. I also
managed to get a plastic (Detail Associates I think) air hose attached.

All-in-all very nice looking and a part that was sorely needed for us
guys who hate the look of Kadee trip pins. I forget who was mentioned
about working with PSC to get this part done but a big THANK YOU to you.
There are 8 castings in a package.

Tom Lawler

E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (5.5.1.322)
Database version: 5.10640e
http://www.pctools. com/en/spyware- doctor/

















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: PSC Hose Brackets

Dennis Storzek <destorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., Frank Greene <frgreene290@...> wrote:

pierreoliver2003 wrote:
Do we have a web link for PSC?
PIerre Oliver

http://www.precisionscaleco.com/

Frank Greene
Memphis, TN

PSC doesn't actually show them on their web site, but the Part No. is
39156.

Who wants to take a photo of them and put it in the Photos section
along with my prototype photos?

Dennis


Re: Stockcar Photos Uploaded

Charlie Vlk
 

The Illinois Railway Museum has restored ATSF 60394 and it is in like new condition (no loads yet).
IIRC it has the toehold holes in the ends.
Charlie Vlk


http://www.irm.org/cgi-bin/rsearch.cgi?freight=Atchison+Topeka+&+Santa+Fe+Railroad=60394


Re: WP Gondolas 6501-6600

George Hollwedel
 

We are talking about 52' 6" gons built in 1945. It seems to pre-date the aluminum lettering.

Prototype N Scale Models (TM)
by George Hollwedel
310 Loma Verde St
Buda, TX 78610-9785
512-796-6883
www.micro-trains.com/sr-0806-hollwedelATSF.php
www.micro-trains.com/hollwedel.php
http://www.imrcmodels.com/n/sr/html/GHollSP50SDBoxN.htm
www.imrcmodels.com/n/sr/html/GHollATSFExpressN.htm

--- On Wed, 9/10/08, Dave Nelson <Lake_Muskoka@...> wrote:

From: Dave Nelson <Lake_Muskoka@...>
Subject: RE: [STMFC] WP Gondolas 6501-6600
To: STMFC@...
Date: Wednesday, September 10, 2008, 10:21 AM
There always seems to be a debate about when WP lettering
was Silver....
Anyway, Jim Eager's book on WP equipment says the 1949
gons were the first
w/ Silver lettering. Whether that's first gons or
first freight cars isn't
stated (I think gons) but either way it makes the case for
the 45' gon
lettering being white.

Dave Nelson

-----Original Message-----
I'm looking for information about the 1945 "as
delivered" appearance of
these cars. I'm assuming they were deliverd with white
lettering. I've
only seen two photos and they are both in service and
repainted with yellow
lettering. Any help or pointers to help would be
appreciated.


------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links



Re: PSC Hose Brackets

Frank Greene
 

pierreoliver2003 wrote:
Do we have a web link for PSC?
PIerre Oliver

http://www.precisionscaleco.com/

--

Frank Greene
Memphis, TN


Re: WP Gondolas 6501-6600

Garth G. Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Dave,

I think you probably have it right. WP lettering through most of the 1940s was white. The confusion comes from documents that refer to this paint as "aluminum", which was the pigment base only, not the color. AFAIK, Jim Eager is correct. The change came to aluminum/silver as a color came in 1949 with gondolas 6601-6800, which coincided with the launch of the California Zephyr passenger train. The paint still had an aluminum base, but now looked the part.

Most model manufacturers seem to have gotten this wrong. My example of the WP 6601-class gondolas (LifeLike Proto 2000 kit 21475) has white lettering, which definitely should be silver, though they did a nice job on the little orange triangles. Roundhouse 50-foot wooden boxcars 2141 and 2151 came with silver lettering, which should probably have been white (most were retired by the mid-1950s). Even Martin Loftin (Sunshine) offered WP 16001-18500 wooden boxcars with silver lettering as kits 59.3 and 59.4, and WP 14301-14540 rebuilt steel boxcars with silver lettering as 64.17 and 64.19. Either class in silver lettering would have been extremely rare. The WP was a very parsimonious railroad, and usually didn't repaint older cars unless they were wreck rebuilds. And don't get me started on Intermountain and their transgressions!

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff / WP modeler deluxe



Dave Nelson wrote:

There always seems to be a debate about when WP lettering was Silver....
Anyway, Jim Eager's book on WP equipment says the 1949 gons were the first
w/ Silver lettering. Whether that's first gons or first freight cars isn't
stated (I think gons) but either way it makes the case for the 45' gon
lettering being white.

Dave Nelson


Re: WP Gondolas 6501-6600

Dave Nelson
 

There always seems to be a debate about when WP lettering was Silver....
Anyway, Jim Eager's book on WP equipment says the 1949 gons were the first
w/ Silver lettering. Whether that's first gons or first freight cars isn't
stated (I think gons) but either way it makes the case for the 45' gon
lettering being white.

Dave Nelson

-----Original Message-----
I'm looking for information about the 1945 "as delivered" appearance of
these cars. I'm assuming they were deliverd with white lettering. I've
only seen two photos and they are both in service and repainted with yellow
lettering. Any help or pointers to help would be appreciated.

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