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Re: Pennsy Stock Car Questions
S hed <shed999@...>
You are right.... the Pennsy takes up 33 pages in my ORER so I did miss some stock cars including the K8. So here is a revision of PRR stock cars in 1926.
Ke 1 car Kf 174 Kfa 2,153 Ky 8 K7 25 K8 1,000 1926 TOTAL = 3,361 cars It is too bad that no one makes a K8 stock car even though they were built in 1924, they lasted to at least 1963. It even looks like it was the second most stock car class that the Pennsy had in the 1940s and 1950s after the K7a. http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_howitworks_012009 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Re: MILW Rib Side Cars
Richard Hendrickson
On Jan 27, 2009, at 7:17 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:
Richard Thanks, Tim. Your response came as a surprise, as I had intended to e-mail Ron directly but obviously I screwed up and sent it to the whole list. Anyway, that's a model I'd like to have, so I'll order it. Richard Hendrickson
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Re: MILW Rib Side Cars
Richard
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
This is the only 50 foot car so far (AFAIK) -- #5260 http://ribsidecars.com/ribsidecars_014.htm Tim
Ron, I'm interested in the Rib Side 50' models but can't find a
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Re: Pennsy Stock Car Questions
Andy Miller <aslmmiller@...>
Steve,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
As far as I know the PRR had only one K7. All the rest were K7a's. The difference is in the convertible second deck. The K7 did not have one. And, yes, I think the BLI car is an excellent model. The other stock car you should consider is the K8. They existed in 1926. See http://prr.railfan.net/documents/ModernLocosandCars1926.html/page14.jpg. They were fundamentally the stock car version of the famous X29 box car. No one has made a respectable model of one in plastic or resin, but I have had some success in kit bashing them from old Trains Miniature stock cars building new doors and a new roof. regards, Andy Miller
----- Original Message -----
From: "S hed" <shed999@...> To: <stmfc@...> Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 7:26 PM Subject: [STMFC] Pennsy Stock Car Questions I have a some questions about Pennsylvania RR stock cars and I am hoping that someone can help out. I don't know much about the Pennsy since my layout is based in Oklahoma City in the year 1926 and my interest mainly lies in western railroads. First, I have been doing a lot of research on the different freight car types for my era. And since the Pennsy is so big, I feel that I need a couple or three of their stock cars. So here is a quick summary of what the Pennsy had using my 1926 ORER as a guide. Ke class -> 1 car: stock carKf class -> 136 cars: steel underframe stock car (Westerfield)Kfa class -> 1,981 cars: steel underframe stock car (Westerfield)Ky class -> 8 cars: horse carK7 class -> 25 cars: steel underframe stock car The real stockyard in Oklahoma City had holding pens for cows, hogs, sheep, mules, and horses. So of course I would need a couple or three horse cars. I have no idea what a Pennsy Ky class car looks like. It would be helpful if anyone can point me in the right direction on getting a photo and information on these cars? I know 8 cars are not a whole lot, but the Oklahoma City National Stockyard was a big deal back then and it still is a big deal now. And they hold auctions on all types of horse breeds. So a Pennsy horse car showing up at my stock yard is competely plausable and realistic. The next question is about the K7 class car. How close is it to the K7a class car that Broadway makes? I know that there were not many K7 cars but if the K7a car is exactly the same then I may get one. If nothing else but to hear the sheep or cows sounds coming from the car. My last question and probably the most interesting one is this. I have ORERs for 1915, 1919, 1925, and 1926 and I discovered in my 1919 and 1925 ORERs that the Pennsy leased Mather stock cars. The Pennsy did not assign them a class number so I only have the series numbers to go by and here they are: 626501 to 626700 36' Single Deck: 1919 - 100 cars; 1925 - 126 cars; 1926 - 0 cars626701 to 627019 36' Double Deck: 1919 - 150 cars; 1925 - 77 cars; 1926 - 0 cars627020 to 627279 36' Single Deck: 1919 - 233 cars; 1925 - 180 cars; 1926 - 0 cars627280 to 627300 36' Single Deck: 1919 - 17 cars; 1925 - 11 cars; 1926 - 0 cars TOTAL: 1919 - 500 cars; 1925 - 394 cars; 1926 - 0 cars So I would imagine that they looked like this B&O 36' Mather Stock Car (see attachment) but I have never seen a photo of one of these cars. Does anyone know anything about these cars? This is a big chuck of the Pennsy's stock car fleet in 1925 if you compare it to my above list. So any data or information would be heplful. Thanks,Steve HedlundEverett, WA _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live�: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect. http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_allup_howitworks_012009 ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links
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Re: Potato shipping
michael bishop <goldrod_1@...>
John,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Thanks!!!, some plastic rods and glue and I should have a bunch of them to sit around on a dock. Michael Bishop
--- On Tue, 1/27/09, John Hile <john66h@...> wrote:
From: John Hile <john66h@...> Subject: [STMFC] Re: Potato shipping To: STMFC@... Date: Tuesday, January 27, 2009, 5:52 PM --- In STMFC@yahoogroups. com, "Michael Bishop" <goldrod_1@. ..> wrote: Michael, I Googled: vintage Preco heater, and found two for sale with pictures...one on eBay, one on Craigslist: The one on eBay: http://tinyurl. com/dkozxp The one on Craigslist http://stockton. craigslist. org/for/97446796 8.html Hope these are helpful. John Hile blacksburg, VA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Re: W&LE single sheathed box cars
Richard Hendrickson
On Jan 27, 2009, at 5:45 PM, Claus Schlund (HGM) wrote:
Anyone know of any other good photos of these? I have a print of W&LE 27439, in disreputable condition but apparently still in revenue service, at Toledo, OH in 1948. It's from the Howard Ameling collection. Richard Hendrickson
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Re: W&LE single sheathed box cars
Ray Breyer
>>I've always thought these W&LE single-sheathed box cars would"Claus Schlund (HGM)" <claus@...> wrote: >>be fun to build as they are definitely quite unusual. W&LE 27998, W&LE 27009 Hi Claus, I've got photos of 27201, 27342, 27439 and the builder's photo of 27998, not to mention at least half a dozen shots of these cars in NKP MOW service. I'm not sure where the photos came from specifically, but I know that John Corns and Howard Ameling both have photos of these cars, and both Big Four Graphics and Bob's Photos have other images. Dean Payne found a grounded hulk of one of these cars in Warren, OH a couple of years ago, and took several photos as well. I need to prod him back out there with a tape measure... Regards, Ray Breyer
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Re: Potato shipping
John Hile <john66h@...>
--- In STMFC@..., "Michael Bishop" <goldrod_1@...> wrote:
Michael, I Googled: vintage Preco heater, and found two for sale with pictures...one on eBay, one on Craigslist: The one on eBay: http://tinyurl.com/dkozxp The one on Craigslist http://stockton.craigslist.org/for/974467968.html Hope these are helpful. John Hile blacksburg, VA
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W&LE single sheathed box cars
Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
Hi Ed and list members,
Ed Mines wrote: I recall that W&LE had some single sheathed door and a half box cars The cars were real "odd ducks" with 3 diagonals on one side and 2 onI've always thought these W&LE single-sheathed box cars would be fun to build as they are definitely quite unusual. Altho the ones I have seen were single-door cars, not "door and a half" cars that Ed described. A good builders photo of W&LE 27998 shows up in the Westerfield AC&F builders photo CD as image 9110.JPG An in-service photo of W&LE 27009 (?) appears in Pennsy Power 3 by Staufer on page 109. Anyone know of any other good photos of these? - Claus Schlund
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Re: accurate Barber trucks
aslt28 <karig@...>
I think we may be in violent agreement.
Any truck will tend to rack somewhat as it enters a curve. Up until the introduction of spring plankless trucks, the two sideframes were held in alignment by the spring planks. The four wheel truck partners produced "Double-Truss, Self-Aligning, Spring-Plankless" truck that allowed a small amount of motion in the side frames as you describe. (A cutaway of this self-aligning feature reveals that there wasn't all that much room for movement. Too much movement would have interfered with the relationship between the journal and the journal bearing causing all sorts of other problems.) The resistance of the springs brought the two side frames back into alignment when leaving the curve. The Type S-2 without spring plank, just by the nature of its not having a spring plank, is going to have some flexing between the bolster and the side frames just as in the "Self-Aligning" truck. As you describe, the action of the springs will tend to hold the side frames in place and return the truck to square, after flexing out of shape. Thus, while it may not be a "Self-Aligning" truck, it is, in effect, self-aligning. I agree that the only group of trucks that I've seen used in association with the term "Self-Aligning" are those developed by the four wheel truck group. However, as I've noted, these and other spring-plankless trucks did have some flexibility between the bolster and sideframes and did rely on the interaction of the springs, bolster, and columns to hold them in alignment as you state. Bob Karig
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Re: Potato shipping
Michael Bishop <goldrod_1@...>
Thanks to all for the greet info on the potato shipping. Does anyone
have or know where I can find a picture of one of the heaters that the Santa Fe might of used. Michael Bishop
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Re: MILW Rib Side Cars
Richard Hendrickson
On Jan 19, 2009, at 3:54 PM, dphobbies wrote:
Forgive the commercial intrusion. We will be attending the Amherst Ron, I'm interested in the Rib Side 50' models but can't find a listing anywhere of what's available. Can you help me out here? I'd like to model one of the 13000-13999 series double door cars and maybe one of 50000-50574 series single door cars as well, in both cases in ca. 1947 paint and lettering. Richard Hendrickson
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Pennsy Stock Car Questions
S hed <shed999@...>
I have a some questions about Pennsylvania RR stock cars and I am hoping that someone can help out. I don't know much about the Pennsy since my layout is based in Oklahoma City in the year 1926 and my interest mainly lies in western railroads. First, I have been doing a lot of research on the different freight car types for my era. And since the Pennsy is so big, I feel that I need a couple or three of their stock cars. So here is a quick summary of what the Pennsy had using my 1926 ORER as a guide. Ke class -> 1 car: stock carKf class -> 136 cars: steel underframe stock car (Westerfield)Kfa class -> 1,981 cars: steel underframe stock car (Westerfield)Ky class -> 8 cars: horse carK7 class -> 25 cars: steel underframe stock car The real stockyard in Oklahoma City had holding pens for cows, hogs, sheep, mules, and horses. So of course I would need a couple or three horse cars. I have no idea what a Pennsy Ky class car looks like. It would be helpful if anyone can point me in the right direction on getting a photo and information on these cars? I know 8 cars are not a whole lot, but the Oklahoma City National Stockyard was a big deal back then and it still is a big deal now. And they hold auctions on all types of horse breeds. So a Pennsy horse car showing up at my stock yard is competely plausable and realistic. The next question is about the K7 class car. How close is it to the K7a class car that Broadway makes? I know that there were not many K7 cars but if the K7a car is exactly the same then I may get one. If nothing else but to hear the sheep or cows sounds coming from the car. My last question and probably the most interesting one is this. I have ORERs for 1915, 1919, 1925, and 1926 and I discovered in my 1919 and 1925 ORERs that the Pennsy leased Mather stock cars. The Pennsy did not assign them a class number so I only have the series numbers to go by and here they are: 626501 to 626700 36' Single Deck: 1919 - 100 cars; 1925 - 126 cars; 1926 - 0 cars626701 to 627019 36' Double Deck: 1919 - 150 cars; 1925 - 77 cars; 1926 - 0 cars627020 to 627279 36' Single Deck: 1919 - 233 cars; 1925 - 180 cars; 1926 - 0 cars627280 to 627300 36' Single Deck: 1919 - 17 cars; 1925 - 11 cars; 1926 - 0 cars TOTAL: 1919 - 500 cars; 1925 - 394 cars; 1926 - 0 cars So I would imagine that they looked like this B&O 36' Mather Stock Car (see attachment) but I have never seen a photo of one of these cars. Does anyone know anything about these cars? This is a big chuck of the Pennsy's stock car fleet in 1925 if you compare it to my above list. So any data or information would be heplful. Thanks,Steve HedlundEverett, WA
_________________________________________________________________ Windows Live�: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect. http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_allup_howitworks_012009 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Re: accurate Barber trucks
Brian Leppert <b.leppert@...>
--- In STMFC@..., "aslt28" <karig@...> wrote:
few years later, leaving the S-1-L as the surviving member of the S-1family. I think you're probably correct. Hey, something we can agree about! <VBG> may be seeing in the side view is actually the coil that holds thesets of coils. As you have already corrected, 5 in the 50-ton S-2A. in the CBCs from 1940 to 1946) does not show up in the literature.CBC. What appeared in ads in the CBCs most likely was submitted by a company's advertising department and might depend on how much could fit. Or how much they knew. They certainly would want to promote the new S-2A truck. This leads me to conclude that spring plankless version of the S-2 I can agree that the S-2A was an improvement over the S-2 design. For your consideration: Southern Pacific's auto cars, class A-15-17, where built in 1950-51. They had Barber Stabilized trucks with spring planks. SP called them S-2A. In 1949, SP aquired the class F- 50-16 flat cars with Barber Stabilized spring-plankless trucks. SP classsified these as S-2AO. Any thoughts that the "O" might signify a S-2A without the spring plank?
No. "Self-Aligning Spring Plankless Double Truss" trucks were designed to allow the sideframes to swivel on the bolster ends. The idea was that rigid trucks--those with spring planks--performed well on straight track, but in curves the inner wheels would try to lead the outer wheels and twist the truck out of square and could cause spring plank failure. To correct this, the self-aligning truck incorporated "engaging cylindrical convex bolster guides with the cylindrical concave side frame column surfaces" (quote from 1940 CBC). This allowed the side frames to go out of alignment when in curves. The springs brought them back into alignment. A pessimist might call this a "self-unaligning" truck. Because of this movement, a spring plank could not be used. In railroad industry literature, I've only seen the term "self- aligning" when used in conjuction with this column/bolster design. Trackside spotting features for this truck are the front edges of the sideframe columns. Rather than being recessed verticle surfaces, look for raised beveled edges. These can be quite hard to see in photos. (My new Double Truss truck includes this detail) It is my contention that truck sideframes and bolsters that had more springs spread out over a larger foot print provided the stability that rendered spring planks unneeded. Double truss trucks could be and were built without either spring planks or the self-aligning feature. SCT was not a member of the four wheel railway truck agreement that produced the self-aligning, spring-plankless,Standard Car Truck Co. started business in the late 1890s to sell their Barber Lateral Motion Device. And sold LOTS of them up until freight car construction came to a standstill in the Depression. I'm not surprised that they wouldn't be involved in a truck design that could not allow for lateral motion! Respectfully submitted, Brian Leppert Tahoe Model Works Carson City, NV P.S. Some railroads that REALLY liked their trucks with the Barber Lateral Motion Device included: CP, NP, WP, SP, UP, PFE, Santa Fe, SFRD, Rock Island, SL-SF, CB&Q, C&NW, IC, B&O, DL&W, and CV. And some cars of MP, T&P, CofG, B&LE and CN. This list is for cars constructed before the effects of the Depression.
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Proto48 Modeler Website Updated
losgatos48@...
The 13th issue of the Proto48 Modeler is now posted on the web. There will an update later this week adding an additonal 40 model photos to the Gallery. As always, there is a significant emphasis on steam era freight cars.
Gene Deimling Editor, Proto48 Modeler http://www.proto48.org
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Re: Potato shipping
wohrnell@...
PRECO heaters were fueled with a 50/50 mix of methanol and isopropyl alcohol. These heaters has a hook on each side of the tank (5 gallons) with an internal spring which were fastened to the sides of the bunkers
Must insulated cars that I ran across had them hung from the ceiling in a sling some were fastened to the floor by various methods. Potatoes for table stock were kept at 40 degree while chipping potatoes were kept at 60 degrees. If chipping potatoes were cooler than 60 they would turn dark when they were placed in the shortening to fry. I would never remove heaters to refuel, all refueling was done in the bunker with the heater extinguished. Five gallon safety cans were placed on the ground near the side of the car, a rope with a hook was thrown up on the roof. Climb up retrieve rope, stand on edge of car drop rope and try catching the handle of the can after snagging pull to roof. Open hatch drop can on end of rope into bunker climb down, extinguish, refuel relight after cap was replaced. Climb out snag can and repeat on other end. Depending on the temperatures the cars might run through up to four heaters would be used per car. BTW heater service was mandatory between November 15 and March 15 if I recall. Sort of forget things after 40 years. Lenny Ohrnell
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Re: accurate Barber trucks
aslt28 <karig@...>
I stand corrected. The S-2A clearly shows five sets of coils.
Bob Karig
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Re: accurate Barber trucks
aslt28 <karig@...>
Yes, the S-1 was produced, however, the Type S-1 without lateral
motion devices was quickly overtaken by the Type S-2 introduced a few years later, leaving the S-1-L as the surviving member of the S-1 family. The 50-ton versions of both the S-2 and the S-2A have four sets of spring coils, i.e., one outer and one inner coil each. The top view of the spring sets shows this pretty clearly. The fifth coil you may be seeing in the side view is actually the coil that holds the friction wedge in place. The 70-ton version of the S-2 had five sets of coils. After 1946, the spring plankless version of the S-2 (the one shown in the CBCs from 1940 to 1946) does not show up in the literature. Instead, the spring plankless S-2A appears beginning in the 1949 CBC. This leads me to conclude that spring plankless version of the S-2 was redesigned, and the S-2A became the spring plankless version of the S-2. Almost by definition, a spring-plankless truck has to be self-aligning. SCT was not a member of the four wheel railway truck agreement that produced the self-aligning, spring-plankless, double-truss truck. Therefore, one would not expect that SCT's self-alignment feature would look like that of that collabortative venture's. Bob Karig
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Re: New Intermountain Cars
Staffan Ehnbom <staffan.ehnbom@...>
It is molded plastic.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
----- Original Message -----
From: jerryglow2 To: STMFC@... Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 12:55 AM Subject: [STMFC] Re: New Intermountain Cars I don't like what I see on the web site shot. The trend has been toward wire for underbody plumbing and rods but in the pic they look like the molded items we've seen in the past. Is it wire or ?? Jerry Glow --- In STMFC@..., "gn3397" <heninger@...> wrote: > > --- In STMFC@..., "Hunter, James R." <jhunter@> wrote: > > > > I just received my Intermountain GN plywood boxcar. Anyone care to > > comment on its accuracy? > > Jim > > > > From photos I have seen, the IM GN Plywood cars are solid 3- footers. Biggest gripes: The > side sill detail is too shallow, I think the sheathing attachment bolts are too large, and on the > painted orange and green examples I have seen, they are painted incorrectly. The sides of > the ends should be green. It's too bad they couldn't have executed these cars as well as their > covered hoppers. > > Bottom line: I am a GN modeler, and I will be sticking with my Sunshine cars. > > Sincerely, > Robert D. Heninger > Iowa City, IA > __________ NOD32 3741 (20090105) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com
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Re: Pennsy Stock Car Questions
SUVCWORR@...
Elevation drawing of a KY class car
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
_http://prr.railfan.net/freight/PRRdiagrams.html?diag=KY-E73579.gif&fr=cl_ (http://prr.railfan.net/freight/PRRdiagrams.html?diag=KY-E73579.gif&fr=cl)
In a message dated 1/27/2009 7:26:21 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
shed999@... writes: I have a some questions about Pennsylvania RR stock cars and I am hoping that someone can help out. I don't know much about the Pennsy since my layout is based in Oklahoma City in the year 1926 and my interest mainly lies in western railroads. First, I have been doing a lot of research on the different freight car types for my era. And since the Pennsy is so big, I feel that I need a couple or three of their stock cars. So here is a quick summary of what the Pennsy had using my 1926 ORER as a guide. Ke class -> 1 car: stock carKf class -> 136 cars: steel underframe stock car (Westerfield)Kfa class -> 1,981 cars: steel underframe stock car (Westerfield)Ky class -> 8 cars: horse carK7 class -> 25 cars: steel underframe stock car The real stockyard in Oklahoma City had holding pens for cows, hogs, sheep, mules, and horses. So of course I would need a couple or three horse cars. I have no idea what a Pennsy Ky class car looks like. It would be helpful if anyone can point me in the right direction on getting a photo and information on these cars? I know 8 cars are not a whole lot, but the Oklahoma City National Stockyard was a big deal back then and it still is a big deal now. And they hold auctions on all types of horse breeds. So a Pennsy horse car showing up at my stock yard is competely plausable and realistic. The next question is about the K7 class car. How close is it to the K7a class car that Broadway makes? I know that there were not many K7 cars but if the K7a car is exactly the same then I may get one. If nothing else but to hear the sheep or cows sounds coming from the car. My last question and probably the most interesting one is this. I have ORERs for 1915, 1919, 1925, and 1926 and I discovered in my 1919 and 1925 ORERs that the Pennsy leased Mather stock cars. The Pennsy did not assign them a class number so I only have the series numbers to go by and here they are: 626501 to 626700 36' Single Deck: 1919 - 100 cars; 1925 - 126 cars; 1926 - 0 cars626701 to 627019 36' Double Deck: 1919 - 150 cars; 1925 - 77 cars; 1926 - 0 cars627020 to 627279 36' Single Deck: 1919 - 233 cars; 1925 - 180 cars; 1926 - 0 cars627280 to 627300 36' Single Deck: 1919 - 17 cars; 1925 - 11 cars; 1926 - 0 cars TOTAL: 1919 - 500 cars; 1925 - 394 cars; 1926 - 0 cars So I would imagine that they looked like this B&O 36' Mather Stock Car (see attachment) but I have never seen a photo of one of these cars. Does anyone know anything about these cars? This is a big chuck of the Pennsy's stock car fleet in 1925 if you compare it to my above list. So any data or information would be heplful. Thanks,Steve HedlundEverett, WA _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live™: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect. http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_allup_howitworks_012009 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links **************From Wall Street to Main Street and everywhere in between, stay up-to-date with the latest news. (http://aol.com?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000023)
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