Date   

Re: Pennsy Stock Car Questions

S hed <shed999@...>
 

You are right.... the Pennsy takes up 33 pages in my ORER so I did miss some stock cars including the K8. So here is a revision of PRR stock cars in 1926.

Ke 1 car
Kf 174
Kfa 2,153
Ky 8
K7 25
K8 1,000
1926 TOTAL = 3,361 cars

It is too bad that no one makes a K8 stock car even though they were built in 1924, they lasted to at least 1963. It even looks like it was the second most stock car class that the Pennsy had in the 1940s and 1950s after the K7a.

http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_howitworks_012009

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: MILW Rib Side Cars

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jan 27, 2009, at 7:17 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

Richard

This is the only 50 foot car so far (AFAIK) -- #5260
http://ribsidecars.com/ribsidecars_014.htm





Thanks, Tim. Your response came as a surprise, as I had intended to
e-mail Ron directly but obviously I screwed up and sent it to the
whole list. Anyway, that's a model I'd like to have, so I'll order it.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: MILW Rib Side Cars

Tim O'Connor
 

Richard

This is the only 50 foot car so far (AFAIK) -- #5260
http://ribsidecars.com/ribsidecars_014.htm

Tim

Ron, I'm interested in the Rib Side 50' models but can't find a
listing anywhere of what's available. Can you help me out here? I'd
like to model one of the 13000-13999 series double door cars and
maybe one of 50000-50574 series single door cars as well, in both
cases in ca. 1947 paint and lettering.
Richard Hendrickson


Re: Pennsy Stock Car Questions

Andy Miller <aslmmiller@...>
 

Steve,

As far as I know the PRR had only one K7. All the rest were K7a's. The difference is in the convertible second deck. The K7 did not have one.

And, yes, I think the BLI car is an excellent model.

The other stock car you should consider is the K8. They existed in 1926. See http://prr.railfan.net/documents/ModernLocosandCars1926.html/page14.jpg. They were fundamentally the stock car version of the famous X29 box car. No one has made a respectable model of one in plastic or resin, but I have had some success in kit bashing them from old Trains Miniature stock cars building new doors and a new roof.

regards,

Andy Miller

----- Original Message -----
From: "S hed" <shed999@...>
To: <stmfc@...>
Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 7:26 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Pennsy Stock Car Questions



I have a some questions about Pennsylvania RR stock cars and I am hoping that someone can help out. I don't know much about the Pennsy since my layout is based in Oklahoma City in the year 1926 and my interest mainly lies in western railroads. First, I have been doing a lot of research on the different freight car types for my era. And since the Pennsy is so big, I feel that I need a couple or three of their stock cars. So here is a quick summary of what the Pennsy had using my 1926 ORER as a guide. Ke class -> 1 car: stock carKf class -> 136 cars: steel underframe stock car (Westerfield)Kfa class -> 1,981 cars: steel underframe stock car (Westerfield)Ky class -> 8 cars: horse carK7 class -> 25 cars: steel underframe stock car The real stockyard in Oklahoma City had holding pens for cows, hogs, sheep, mules, and horses. So of course I would need a couple or three horse cars. I have no idea what a Pennsy Ky class car looks like. It would be helpful if anyone can point me in the right direction on getting a photo and information on these cars? I know 8 cars are not a whole lot, but the Oklahoma City National Stockyard was a big deal back then and it still is a big deal now. And they hold auctions on all types of horse breeds. So a Pennsy horse car showing up at my stock yard is competely plausable and realistic. The next question is about the K7 class car. How close is it to the K7a class car that Broadway makes? I know that there were not many K7 cars but if the K7a car is exactly the same then I may get one. If nothing else but to hear the sheep or cows sounds coming from the car. My last question and probably the most interesting one is this. I have ORERs for 1915, 1919, 1925, and 1926 and I discovered in my 1919 and 1925 ORERs that the Pennsy leased Mather stock cars. The Pennsy did not assign them a class number so I only have the series numbers to go by and here they are: 626501 to 626700 36' Single Deck: 1919 - 100 cars; 1925 - 126 cars; 1926 - 0 cars626701 to 627019 36' Double Deck: 1919 - 150 cars; 1925 - 77 cars; 1926 - 0 cars627020 to 627279 36' Single Deck: 1919 - 233 cars; 1925 - 180 cars; 1926 - 0 cars627280 to 627300 36' Single Deck: 1919 - 17 cars; 1925 - 11 cars; 1926 - 0 cars TOTAL: 1919 - 500 cars; 1925 - 394 cars; 1926 - 0 cars So I would imagine that they looked like this B&O 36' Mather Stock Car (see attachment) but I have never seen a photo of one of these cars. Does anyone know anything about these cars? This is a big chuck of the Pennsy's stock car fleet in 1925 if you compare it to my above list. So any data or information would be heplful. Thanks,Steve HedlundEverett, WA
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Re: Potato shipping

michael bishop <goldrod_1@...>
 

John,
Thanks!!!, some plastic rods and glue and I should have a bunch of them to sit around on a dock.
 
Michael Bishop

--- On Tue, 1/27/09, John Hile <john66h@...> wrote:

From: John Hile <john66h@...>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Potato shipping
To: STMFC@...
Date: Tuesday, January 27, 2009, 5:52 PM






--- In STMFC@yahoogroups. com, "Michael Bishop" <goldrod_1@. ..> wrote:

Thanks to all for the greet info on the potato shipping. Does anyone
have or know where I can find a picture of one of the heaters that the
Santa Fe might of used.
Michael,

I Googled: vintage Preco heater, and found two for sale with
pictures...one on eBay, one on Craigslist:

The one on eBay:
http://tinyurl. com/dkozxp

The one on Craigslist
http://stockton. craigslist. org/for/97446796 8.html

Hope these are helpful.

John Hile
blacksburg, VA


















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: W&LE single sheathed box cars

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jan 27, 2009, at 5:45 PM, Claus Schlund (HGM) wrote:

Anyone know of any other good photos of these?

I have a print of W&LE 27439, in disreputable condition but
apparently still in revenue service, at Toledo, OH in 1948. It's
from the Howard Ameling collection.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: W&LE single sheathed box cars

Ray Breyer
 

"Claus Schlund (HGM)" <claus@...> wrote:
>>I've always thought these W&LE single-sheathed box cars would
>>be fun to build as they are definitely quite unusual.
W&LE 27998, W&LE 27009
Anyone know of any other good photos of these?

Hi Claus,

I've got photos of 27201, 27342, 27439 and the builder's photo of 27998, not to mention at least half a dozen shots of these cars in NKP MOW service. I'm not sure where the photos came from specifically, but I know that John Corns and Howard Ameling both have photos of these cars, and both Big Four Graphics and Bob's Photos have other images.

Dean Payne found a grounded hulk of one of these cars in Warren, OH a couple of years ago, and took several photos as well. I need to prod him back out there with a tape measure...

Regards,

Ray Breyer


Re: Potato shipping

John Hile <john66h@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Michael Bishop" <goldrod_1@...> wrote:

Thanks to all for the greet info on the potato shipping. Does anyone
have or know where I can find a picture of one of the heaters that the
Santa Fe might of used.














Michael,

I Googled: vintage Preco heater, and found two for sale with
pictures...one on eBay, one on Craigslist:

The one on eBay:
http://tinyurl.com/dkozxp


The one on Craigslist
http://stockton.craigslist.org/for/974467968.html

Hope these are helpful.

John Hile
blacksburg, VA


W&LE single sheathed box cars

Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;)
 

Hi Ed and list members,

Ed Mines wrote:

I recall that W&LE had some single sheathed door and a half box cars
with 2 panel, verical ribbed steel ends like PM double sheathed box
cars.
The cars were real "odd ducks" with 3 diagonals on one side and 2 on
the other, similar to PM cars. However whereas the the PM cars had
Pratt trusses on the sides (diagonal adjacent to the doors on the
bottom) the W&LE cars had more conventional Howe trusses with the
diagonals adjacent to the doors at the top.
I've always thought these W&LE single-sheathed box cars would be fun to build as they are definitely quite unusual.

Altho the ones I have seen were single-door cars, not "door and a half" cars that Ed described.

A good builders photo of W&LE 27998 shows up in the Westerfield AC&F builders photo CD as image 9110.JPG

An in-service photo of W&LE 27009 (?) appears in Pennsy Power 3 by Staufer on page 109.

Anyone know of any other good photos of these?

- Claus Schlund


Re: accurate Barber trucks

aslt28 <karig@...>
 

I think we may be in violent agreement.

Any truck will tend to rack somewhat as it enters a curve. Up until
the introduction of spring plankless trucks, the two sideframes were
held in alignment by the spring planks.

The four wheel truck partners produced "Double-Truss, Self-Aligning,
Spring-Plankless" truck that allowed a small amount of motion in the
side frames as you describe. (A cutaway of this self-aligning feature
reveals that there wasn't all that much room for movement. Too much
movement would have interfered with the relationship between the
journal and the journal bearing causing all sorts of other problems.)
The resistance of the springs brought the two side frames back into
alignment when leaving the curve.

The Type S-2 without spring plank, just by the nature of its not
having a spring plank, is going to have some flexing between the
bolster and the side frames just as in the "Self-Aligning" truck. As
you describe, the action of the springs will tend to hold the side
frames in place and return the truck to square, after flexing out of
shape. Thus, while it may not be a "Self-Aligning" truck, it is, in
effect, self-aligning.

I agree that the only group of trucks that I've seen used in
association with the term "Self-Aligning" are those developed by the
four wheel truck group. However, as I've noted, these and other
spring-plankless trucks did have some flexibility between the bolster
and sideframes and did rely on the interaction of the springs,
bolster, and columns to hold them in alignment as you state.

Bob Karig


Re: Potato shipping

Michael Bishop <goldrod_1@...>
 

Thanks to all for the greet info on the potato shipping. Does anyone
have or know where I can find a picture of one of the heaters that the
Santa Fe might of used.

Michael Bishop


Re: MILW Rib Side Cars

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jan 19, 2009, at 3:54 PM, dphobbies wrote:

Forgive the commercial intrusion. We will be attending the Amherst
Railway Society show in West Springfield, MA this weekend and will
have
the complete line of Rib Side Cars 40' and 50' Milwaukee boxcars in
all
of their schemes.

In addition we will have the custom 5th Avenue Cars Shops offerings as
well.








Ron, I'm interested in the Rib Side 50' models but can't find a
listing anywhere of what's available. Can you help me out here? I'd
like to model one of the 13000-13999 series double door cars and
maybe one of 50000-50574 series single door cars as well, in both
cases in ca. 1947 paint and lettering.

Richard Hendrickson


Pennsy Stock Car Questions

S hed <shed999@...>
 

I have a some questions about Pennsylvania RR stock cars and I am hoping that someone can help out. I don't know much about the Pennsy since my layout is based in Oklahoma City in the year 1926 and my interest mainly lies in western railroads. First, I have been doing a lot of research on the different freight car types for my era. And since the Pennsy is so big, I feel that I need a couple or three of their stock cars. So here is a quick summary of what the Pennsy had using my 1926 ORER as a guide. Ke class -> 1 car: stock carKf class -> 136 cars: steel underframe stock car (Westerfield)Kfa class -> 1,981 cars: steel underframe stock car (Westerfield)Ky class -> 8 cars: horse carK7 class -> 25 cars: steel underframe stock car The real stockyard in Oklahoma City had holding pens for cows, hogs, sheep, mules, and horses. So of course I would need a couple or three horse cars. I have no idea what a Pennsy Ky class car looks like. It would be helpful if anyone can point me in the right direction on getting a photo and information on these cars? I know 8 cars are not a whole lot, but the Oklahoma City National Stockyard was a big deal back then and it still is a big deal now. And they hold auctions on all types of horse breeds. So a Pennsy horse car showing up at my stock yard is competely plausable and realistic. The next question is about the K7 class car. How close is it to the K7a class car that Broadway makes? I know that there were not many K7 cars but if the K7a car is exactly the same then I may get one. If nothing else but to hear the sheep or cows sounds coming from the car. My last question and probably the most interesting one is this. I have ORERs for 1915, 1919, 1925, and 1926 and I discovered in my 1919 and 1925 ORERs that the Pennsy leased Mather stock cars. The Pennsy did not assign them a class number so I only have the series numbers to go by and here they are: 626501 to 626700 36' Single Deck: 1919 - 100 cars; 1925 - 126 cars; 1926 - 0 cars626701 to 627019 36' Double Deck: 1919 - 150 cars; 1925 - 77 cars; 1926 - 0 cars627020 to 627279 36' Single Deck: 1919 - 233 cars; 1925 - 180 cars; 1926 - 0 cars627280 to 627300 36' Single Deck: 1919 - 17 cars; 1925 - 11 cars; 1926 - 0 cars TOTAL: 1919 - 500 cars; 1925 - 394 cars; 1926 - 0 cars So I would imagine that they looked like this B&O 36' Mather Stock Car (see attachment) but I have never seen a photo of one of these cars. Does anyone know anything about these cars? This is a big chuck of the Pennsy's stock car fleet in 1925 if you compare it to my above list. So any data or information would be heplful. Thanks,Steve HedlundEverett, WA
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect.
http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_allup_howitworks_012009

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: accurate Barber trucks

Brian Leppert <b.leppert@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "aslt28" <karig@...> wrote:

Yes, the S-1 was produced, however, the Type S-1 without lateral
motion devices was quickly overtaken by the Type S-2 introduced a
few
years later, leaving the S-1-L as the surviving member of the S-1
family.

I think you're probably correct. Hey, something we can agree about!
<VBG>



The 50-ton versions of both the S-2 and the S-2A have four sets of
spring coils, i.e., one outer and one inner coil each. The top view
of the spring sets shows this pretty clearly. The fifth coil you
may
be seeing in the side view is actually the coil that holds the
friction wedge in place. The 70-ton version of the S-2 had five
sets
of coils.

As you have already corrected, 5 in the 50-ton S-2A.



After 1946, the spring plankless version of the S-2 (the one shown
in
the CBCs from 1940 to 1946) does not show up in the literature.
Instead, the spring plankless S-2A appears beginning in the 1949
CBC.


What appeared in ads in the CBCs most likely was submitted by a
company's advertising department and might depend on how much could
fit. Or how much they knew. They certainly would want to promote the
new S-2A truck.



This leads me to conclude that spring plankless version of the S-2
was redesigned, and the S-2A became the spring plankless version of
the S-2.

I can agree that the S-2A was an improvement over the S-2 design.

For your consideration: Southern Pacific's auto cars, class A-15-17,
where built in 1950-51. They had Barber Stabilized trucks with
spring planks. SP called them S-2A. In 1949, SP aquired the class F-
50-16 flat cars with Barber Stabilized spring-plankless trucks. SP
classsified these as S-2AO.

Any thoughts that the "O" might signify a S-2A without the spring
plank?



Almost by definition, a spring-plankless truck has to be
self-aligning.

No.

"Self-Aligning Spring Plankless Double Truss" trucks were designed to
allow the sideframes to swivel on the bolster ends. The idea was that
rigid trucks--those with spring planks--performed well on straight
track, but in curves the inner wheels would try to lead the outer
wheels and twist the truck out of square and could cause spring plank
failure.

To correct this, the self-aligning truck incorporated "engaging
cylindrical convex bolster guides with the cylindrical concave side
frame column surfaces" (quote from 1940 CBC). This allowed the side
frames to go out of alignment when in curves. The springs brought
them back into alignment.

A pessimist might call this a "self-unaligning" truck.

Because of this movement, a spring plank could not be used.

In railroad industry literature, I've only seen the term "self-
aligning" when used in conjuction with this column/bolster design.

Trackside spotting features for this truck are the front edges of the
sideframe columns. Rather than being recessed verticle surfaces,
look for raised beveled edges. These can be quite hard to see in
photos. (My new Double Truss truck includes this detail)

It is my contention that truck sideframes and bolsters that had more
springs spread out over a larger foot print provided the stability
that rendered spring planks unneeded.

Double truss trucks could be and were built without either spring
planks or the self-aligning feature.


SCT was not a member of the four wheel railway truck
agreement that produced the self-aligning, spring-plankless,
double-truss truck. Therefore, one would not expect that SCT's
self-alignment feature would look like that of that collabortative
venture's.
Standard Car Truck Co. started business in the late 1890s to sell
their Barber Lateral Motion Device. And sold LOTS of them up until
freight car construction came to a standstill in the Depression. I'm
not surprised that they wouldn't be involved in a truck design that
could not allow for lateral motion!

Respectfully submitted,

Brian Leppert
Tahoe Model Works
Carson City, NV

P.S. Some railroads that REALLY liked their trucks with the Barber
Lateral Motion Device included: CP, NP, WP, SP, UP, PFE, Santa Fe,
SFRD, Rock Island, SL-SF, CB&Q, C&NW, IC, B&O, DL&W, and CV. And
some cars of MP, T&P, CofG, B&LE and CN. This list is for cars
constructed before the effects of the Depression.


Proto48 Modeler Website Updated

losgatos48@...
 

The 13th issue of the Proto48 Modeler is now posted on the web. There will an update later this week adding an additonal 40 model photos to the Gallery. As always, there is a significant emphasis on steam era freight cars.

Gene Deimling
Editor, Proto48 Modeler
http://www.proto48.org


Re: Potato shipping

wohrnell@...
 

PRECO heaters were fueled with a 50/50 mix of methanol and isopropyl alcohol. These heaters has a hook on each side of the tank (5 gallons) with an internal spring which were fastened to the sides of the bunkers

Must insulated cars that I ran across had them hung from the ceiling in a sling some were fastened to the floor by various methods. Potatoes for table stock were kept at 40 degree while chipping potatoes were kept at 60 degrees. If chipping potatoes were cooler than 60 they would turn dark when they were placed in the shortening to fry.

I would never remove heaters to refuel, all refueling was done in the bunker with the heater extinguished. Five gallon safety cans were placed on the ground near the side of the car, a rope with a hook was thrown up on the roof. Climb up retrieve rope, stand on edge of car drop rope and try catching the handle of the can after snagging pull to roof. Open hatch drop can on end of rope into bunker climb down, extinguish, refuel relight after cap was replaced. Climb out snag can and repeat on other end.

Depending on the temperatures the cars might run through up to four heaters would be used per car. BTW heater service was mandatory between November 15 and March 15 if I recall. Sort of forget things after 40 years.

Lenny Ohrnell


Re: accurate Barber trucks

aslt28 <karig@...>
 

I stand corrected. The S-2A clearly shows five sets of coils.

Bob Karig


Re: accurate Barber trucks

aslt28 <karig@...>
 

Yes, the S-1 was produced, however, the Type S-1 without lateral
motion devices was quickly overtaken by the Type S-2 introduced a few
years later, leaving the S-1-L as the surviving member of the S-1 family.

The 50-ton versions of both the S-2 and the S-2A have four sets of
spring coils, i.e., one outer and one inner coil each. The top view
of the spring sets shows this pretty clearly. The fifth coil you may
be seeing in the side view is actually the coil that holds the
friction wedge in place. The 70-ton version of the S-2 had five sets
of coils.

After 1946, the spring plankless version of the S-2 (the one shown in
the CBCs from 1940 to 1946) does not show up in the literature.
Instead, the spring plankless S-2A appears beginning in the 1949 CBC.
This leads me to conclude that spring plankless version of the S-2
was redesigned, and the S-2A became the spring plankless version of
the S-2.

Almost by definition, a spring-plankless truck has to be
self-aligning. SCT was not a member of the four wheel railway truck
agreement that produced the self-aligning, spring-plankless,
double-truss truck. Therefore, one would not expect that SCT's
self-alignment feature would look like that of that collabortative
venture's.

Bob Karig


Re: New Intermountain Cars

Staffan Ehnbom <staffan.ehnbom@...>
 

It is molded plastic.

----- Original Message -----
From: jerryglow2
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 12:55 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: New Intermountain Cars


I don't like what I see on the web site shot. The trend has been
toward wire for underbody plumbing and rods but in the pic they look
like the molded items we've seen in the past. Is it wire or ??

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@..., "gn3397" <heninger@...> wrote:
>
> --- In STMFC@..., "Hunter, James R." <jhunter@> wrote:
> >
> > I just received my Intermountain GN plywood boxcar. Anyone care
to
> > comment on its accuracy?
> > Jim
> >
>
> From photos I have seen, the IM GN Plywood cars are solid 3-
footers. Biggest gripes: The
> side sill detail is too shallow, I think the sheathing attachment
bolts are too large, and on the
> painted orange and green examples I have seen, they are painted
incorrectly. The sides of
> the ends should be green. It's too bad they couldn't have executed
these cars as well as their
> covered hoppers.
>
> Bottom line: I am a GN modeler, and I will be sticking with my
Sunshine cars.
>
> Sincerely,
> Robert D. Heninger
> Iowa City, IA
>





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Re: Pennsy Stock Car Questions

SUVCWORR@...
 

In a message dated 1/27/2009 7:26:21 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
shed999@... writes:


I have a some questions about Pennsylvania RR stock cars and I am hoping
that someone can help out. I don't know much about the Pennsy since my layout is
based in Oklahoma City in the year 1926 and my interest mainly lies in
western railroads. First, I have been doing a lot of research on the different
freight car types for my era. And since the Pennsy is so big, I feel that I need
a couple or three of their stock cars. So here is a quick summary of what
the Pennsy had using my 1926 ORER as a guide. Ke class -> 1 car: stock carKf
class -> 136 cars: steel underframe stock car (Westerfield)Kfa class -> 1,981
cars: steel underframe stock car (Westerfield)Ky class -> 8 cars: horse carK7
class -> 25 cars: steel underframe stock car The real stockyard in Oklahoma
City had holding pens for cows, hogs, sheep, mules, and horses. So of course
I would need a couple or three horse cars. I have no idea what a Pennsy Ky
class car looks like. It would be helpful if anyone can point me in the right
direction on getting a photo and information on these cars? I know 8 cars are
not a whole lot, but the Oklahoma City National Stockyard was a big deal back
then and it still is a big deal now. And they hold auctions on all types of
horse breeds. So a Pennsy horse car showing up at my stock yard is competely
plausable and realistic. The next question is about the K7 class car. How
close is it to the K7a class car that Broadway makes? I know that there were not
many K7 cars but if the K7a car is exactly the same then I may get one. If
nothing else but to hear the sheep or cows sounds coming from the car. My last
question and probably the most interesting one is this. I have ORERs for
1915, 1919, 1925, and 1926 and I discovered in my 1919 and 1925 ORERs that the
Pennsy leased Mather stock cars. The Pennsy did not assign them a class number
so I only have the series numbers to go by and here they are: 626501 to
626700 36' Single Deck: 1919 - 100 cars; 1925 - 126 cars; 1926 - 0 cars626701
to 627019 36' Double Deck: 1919 - 150 cars; 1925 - 77 cars; 1926 - 0
cars627020 to 627279 36' Single Deck: 1919 - 233 cars; 1925 - 180 cars; 1926 -
0 cars627280 to 627300 36' Single Deck: 1919 - 17 cars; 1925 - 11 cars;
1926 - 0 cars TOTAL: 1919 - 500 cars; 1925 - 394 cars; 1926 - 0 cars So I
would imagine that they looked like this B&O 36' Mather Stock Car (see
attachment) but I have never seen a photo of one of these cars. Does anyone know
anything about these cars? This is a big chuck of the Pennsy's stock car fleet in
1925 if you compare it to my above list. So any data or information would be
heplful. Thanks,Steve HedlundEverett, WA
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live™: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect.
http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_allup_howitworks_012009

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