Date   

Attaching composite car sides

lhrfan81 <egreason@...>
 

I was looking at some photos of composite gondolas (PRR GRs and GRAs)
and that got me to wondering how the wood sides were attached, by
rivets or nbws or some other way.
It seems to me that if it was by rivets the builders had to put a hot
rivet through the wood which could burn. And if the panel had to
replaced in the future because of damage the shop force had the shear
off all the rivets in that board.
Nut/bolts/washers would be easier to remove for repairs but would they
they stay tight in service considering the wear and tear/abuse gons
went through?
Thanks inadvance,
Ed


Re: DS/SS split 1932 - help needed

laramielarry <ostresh@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "al_brown03" <abrown@...> wrote:

--- In STMFC@..., "laramielarry" <ostresh@> wrote:
<snip>

Hi Larry,

SOUTHERN, XM, Box, 130000-138495, 36'0.5", 8'0", 6'0", 60000, 4440
SOU 135681: Griffin, "RF&P", p125. Double sheathed.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.
Thanks Al!

Larry Ostresh
Laramie, Wyoming


Re: Protowest/Sunshine AAR flatcar

Dennis Williams
 

Jim.
  On its way!  Ever want to part with some sunshine kits, let me know. Dennis

--- On Wed, 11/5/08, Jim & Lisa Hayes <jimandlisa97225@...> wrote:

From: Jim & Lisa Hayes <jimandlisa97225@...>
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Protowest/Sunshine AAR flatcar
To: STMFC@...
Date: Wednesday, November 5, 2008, 6:58 PM






Oops. I goofed. I should know better. Sunshine's 52'6" AAR flat cars are
kits 30.11-30.18 not 33.xx. Sorry for the confusion.

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups. com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of
Dennis Williams
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:49 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Protowest/Sunshine AAR flatcar

Jim.
  The kits that you refer to, 33.11-33.18, are not on my list.  What are
they?????  Dennis Williams 


















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: N.X. 8612 partial at Handley, WV, in June 1954

water.kresse@...
 

Al,

The hopper cars are all loaded with coal.

If the NX reefer is in behind the loco then it is heading east towards Clifton Forge, VA.

If the reefer is on the tail-end, it is heading west towards Charleston, WV, and Russell, KY.

The rest of the west end of the yard is completely empty ther in June 1954.

Al Kresse

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "al_brown03" <abrown@...>
NX 8600-series cars were ex-PRR class R7, transferred from FGEX
between 1940-42. See Wider, RP CYC 15 pp 47-87 (esp p 77).

Falling Waters is near Martinsburg on the PRR branch from Hagerstown
to Winchester. I don't know what was shipped from there. Mr. Kresse,
in your picture, which way was the train bound? And, were the hoppers
loaded? To grossly truncate several past discussions on this group,
almost any car might turn up almost anywhere, *once*. (My favorite
freak example, which I've mentioned before, is an Algoma Central
boxcar on the Middle Fork Railroad in West Virginia.) If an unusual
car (or group of cars) appeared somewhere repeatedly, it was probably
in dedicated service. Reefers moved less randomly than boxcars, but a
reefer in a coal drag I'd guess was probably empty as someone else
suggested.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

--- In STMFC@..., Frederick Freitas <prrinvt@...> wrote:

Al,

You have half of your info. The NX stood for Nastional Car
Leasing, a subsidiary of the FGEX group.

Fred Freitas

--- On Fri, 11/7/08, al.kresse <water.kresse@...> wrote:

From: al.kresse <water.kresse@...>
Subject: [STMFC] N.X. 8612 partial at Handley, WV, in June 1954
To: STMFC@...
Date: Friday, November 7, 2008, 2:22 PM






Folks,

While working on an offset-side hopper car project, I noticed a
partial
overhead shot of a light colored, wooden with outside steel stakes
and
diagons, 55-ton, N.X. reefer. It has wooden hatches and running
boards
and steel roof.

It is marked "When empty return to Pennsylvania R.R. Falling
Waters, W.
Va."

What does N.X. stand for and were they associated with other reefer
fleets, former or currently in 1954 . . . . and why on the C&O
mainline
in a drag of coal cars?

Looks like C&O HS neg CSPR 10057.006

Al Kresse

















Re: APRIL 1951 AND JULY 1951 ORER DATA NEEDED.

tmolsen@...
 

Dick,

I have an April 1951 ORER. What do you need?

Tom Olsen
7 Boundary Road, West Branch
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479
(302) 738-4292
tmolsen@...


Re: Instructions for Sunshine 78.7

tmolsen@...
 

Tom,

There is no Sunshine Soo Line/Wisconsin Central Kit numbered 78.7, but there are two numbered 78.1 and 78.2. Knowing that Martin uses the same kit instructions for like cars, either one will do.

If you still need the instructions for this kit, I can supply a set, but will need an address to send them via snail mail as I do not have my scanner up and running.

Best Regards,

Tom Olsen
7 Boundary Road, West Branch
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479
(302) 738-4292
tmolsen@...


Re: N.X. 8612 partial at Handley, WV, in June 1954

Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

There is nothing in my 1945 CT 1000 for the PRR in Falling Waters WV. Only
the station and public delivery track are mentioned. there is an Armour at
Hagerstown though.

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY

It is marked "When empty return to Pennsylvania R.R. Falling Waters, W.
Va."


Signal question

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Signals were used to control the movement of freight trains in the steam era . . . .

Now that I've got that out of the way, I have a question for the aficionados of the Southern.

What type of signals were common on the Southern in the 50s? Searchlight? Semaphores? Banjo?

If it matters we're asking about the northern reaches of the Southern.

SGL
La vita e breve, mangiate prima il dolce!


Re: F&C kits

Ron Smith <rpsmith@...>
 

Jim,
I can back Eldon up on this one, I bought 2 of the F&C X26C kits (Both Door Styles), very nice kit.
F&C is making great strides on the newer kits and plans to go back and redo all older kits to one piece bodies over time.

Ron Smith
Carman UPRR

----- Original Message -----
From: Jim & Lisa Hayes
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 1:10 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] F&C kits


WOW! A very positive review of an F&C kit. What's this world coming to?

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon

Eldon said...
I am also in process on one of F&C's PRR X26C kits, and find it to be one of
the best resin kits I have worked on. The one-piece body casting is very
nice, with no bowing or skew. The ladders and roofwalk are weak, but I
replace them regularly on most everything, so no big deal. I am looking
forward to this!






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Re: N.X. 8612 partial at Handley, WV, in June 1954

al_brown03
 

NX 8600-series cars were ex-PRR class R7, transferred from FGEX
between 1940-42. See Wider, RP CYC 15 pp 47-87 (esp p 77).

Falling Waters is near Martinsburg on the PRR branch from Hagerstown
to Winchester. I don't know what was shipped from there. Mr. Kresse,
in your picture, which way was the train bound? And, were the hoppers
loaded? To grossly truncate several past discussions on this group,
almost any car might turn up almost anywhere, *once*. (My favorite
freak example, which I've mentioned before, is an Algoma Central
boxcar on the Middle Fork Railroad in West Virginia.) If an unusual
car (or group of cars) appeared somewhere repeatedly, it was probably
in dedicated service. Reefers moved less randomly than boxcars, but a
reefer in a coal drag I'd guess was probably empty as someone else
suggested.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.


--- In STMFC@..., Frederick Freitas <prrinvt@...> wrote:

Al,
 
      You have half of your info. The NX stood for Nastional Car
Leasing, a subsidiary of the FGEX group.
 
Fred Freitas

--- On Fri, 11/7/08, al.kresse <water.kresse@...> wrote:

From: al.kresse <water.kresse@...>
Subject: [STMFC] N.X. 8612 partial at Handley, WV, in June 1954
To: STMFC@...
Date: Friday, November 7, 2008, 2:22 PM






Folks,

While working on an offset-side hopper car project, I noticed a
partial
overhead shot of a light colored, wooden with outside steel stakes
and
diagons, 55-ton, N.X. reefer. It has wooden hatches and running
boards
and steel roof.

It is marked "When empty return to Pennsylvania R.R. Falling
Waters, W.
Va."

What does N.X. stand for and were they associated with other reefer
fleets, former or currently in 1954 . . . . and why on the C&O
mainline
in a drag of coal cars?

Looks like C&O HS neg CSPR 10057.006

Al Kresse

















Re: Swift reefer colors

Jerry <jrs060@...>
 

Well Ted, let me also step in here to add a little corrected information on
the Swift cars in the earlier paint scheme. I would not want anyone to get
confused with the body color given in an earlier post by Richard
Hendrickson. The car body was painted a Yellow-Orange, not a reefer
yellow color by General American, who by the 1930's was the owner of
the Swift fleet of cars, leasing the cars back to Swift for use.

Happiness, Jerry Stewart

Woodstock, Illinois

--- In STMFC@..., Ted Culotta <tculotta@...> wrote:

No. The yellow sides with red and white Swift emblem did not appear
until 1948 (?) or thereabouts - all I know is that is it too "modern"
for me. In the late 1930s through the war years, they had plain
yellow sides with black stenciling.

Regards,
Ted Culotta

Speedwitch Media
645 Tanner Marsh Road
Guilford, CT 06437
(203) 453-6174
info@...


Re: DS/SS split 1932 - help needed

al_brown03
 

--- In STMFC@..., "laramielarry" <ostresh@...> wrote:
<snip>

Hi Larry,

SOUTHERN, XM, Box, 130000-138495, 36'0.5", 8'0", 6'0", 60000, 4440
SOU 135681: Griffin, "RF&P", p125. Double sheathed.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.


Re: N.X. 8612 partial at Handley, WV, in June 1954

Frederick Freitas <prrinvt@...>
 

Al,
 
      You have half of your info. The NX stood for Nastional Car Leasing, a subsidiary of the FGEX group.
 
Fred Freitas

--- On Fri, 11/7/08, al.kresse <water.kresse@...> wrote:

From: al.kresse <water.kresse@...>
Subject: [STMFC] N.X. 8612 partial at Handley, WV, in June 1954
To: STMFC@...
Date: Friday, November 7, 2008, 2:22 PM






Folks,

While working on an offset-side hopper car project, I noticed a partial
overhead shot of a light colored, wooden with outside steel stakes and
diagons, 55-ton, N.X. reefer. It has wooden hatches and running boards
and steel roof.

It is marked "When empty return to Pennsylvania R.R. Falling Waters, W.
Va."

What does N.X. stand for and were they associated with other reefer
fleets, former or currently in 1954 . . . . and why on the C&O mainline
in a drag of coal cars?

Looks like C&O HS neg CSPR 10057.006

Al Kresse















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


DS/SS split 1932 - help needed

laramielarry <ostresh@...>
 

Hi Folks

Here are the DS/SS/Steel splits from 1932 to 1949 for box, auto and
ventilator cars. The data are for all of the roads in my Excel
database: All cars owned by U.S. Class 1 railroads, and a smattering
of Classes 2 and 3 and some S&Ts. In 1932 over half of the fleet was
double sheathed; by 1949 it was nearly 2/3 steel. The number of
single sheathed cars underwent a slow decline over these years.

Total____Feb-32____Jan-38____Apr-42____Jan-45____Apr-49
DS____537,134____311,379____200,490____173,522____84,524
SS____246,732____228,947____214,915____212,120____175,727
Steel____126,922____205,600____318,499____353,108____469,147
Other____6,960____6,989____6,455____5,926____5,573
Unknown____106,106____9,854____4,345____2,817____834
Total____1,023,854____762,769____744,704____747,493____735,805

Total____Feb-32____Jan-38____Apr-42____Jan-45____Apr-49
DS____52.5%____40.8%____26.9%____23.2%____11.5%
SS____24.1%____30.0%____28.9%____28.4%____23.9%
Steel____12.4%____27.0%____42.8%____47.2%____63.8%
Other____0.7%____0.9%____0.9%____0.8%____0.8%
Unknown____10.4%____1.3%____0.6%____0.4%____0.1%
Total____100.0%____100.0%____100.0%____100.0%____100.0%

There are over 100,000 cars whose sheathing type is Unknown (to me),
about 10% of the fleet; nearly 80,000 of these Unknowns are under 40'
IL. The following series are the Unknowns with the largest
quantities in the February 1932 ORER. They total about 19,000 cars,
of which all but one had disappeared by January 1938. If you can
tell me their sheathing type (DS/SS/Steel) I would be most
appreciative. Build/rebuild dates would also be extremely useful.

Road, AAR, Kind, Series, IL, IH, Door, Capy, Qty 1932
B&O, XM, Box, 86000-89999, 36'0", 7'7", 5'6", 60000, 1048
CCC&STL, XM, Box, 43000-44999, 36'0", 8'0", 6'0", 80000, 1644
LV, XM, Box, 74500-77999, 34'0", 7'0", 5'4", 60000, 2148
M-K-T, XM, Box, 80100-91175, 36'0", 8'0", 6'1", 60000, 2255
SOUTHERN, XM, Box, 130000-138495, 36'0.5", 8'0", 6'0", 60000, 4440
SOUTHERN, XM, Box, 150000-150249, 36'0.5", 8'0", 6'0", 60000, 3242
SOUTHERN, XM, Box, 252582-254599, 36'0.5", 8'0", 6'0", 60000, 1047
SOUTHERN, XM, Box, 254600-254699, 36'0", 8'1", 6'0", 60000, 1385
T&P, XM, Box, 40000-43020, 36'0", 8'4", 6'0", 80000, 1760

Thanks and Best Wishes,
Larry Ostresh
Laramie, Wyoming


Re: N.X. 8612 partial at Handley, WV, in June 1954

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Al Kresse asked:
"What does N.X. stand for and were they associated with other reefer
fleets, former or currently in 1954 . . . . and why on the C&O
mainline in a drag of coal cars?"

Bruce Smith replied:
"You must not read TKM <G>."

Bill Welch's Special TKM/TB&OM/TS-CLM Issue is still available at the
following websites:
http://www.prrths.com/Keystone%20Modeler/Keystone_Modeler.htm
http://borhs.org/ModelerMag/index.html (Link to the Special Issue
from page 1 of March-April 2008 issue)
http://s-clmodeler.aclsal.org/index.htm

THIS ISSUE WILL NOT BE MADE AVAILABLE ON ANY SOCIETY CD COMPILATION
OF TKM, TB&OM, or TS-CLM. If you want it, you need to download it
soon. It's a 10 MB PDF file; recommend downloading the file vice
opening it in your browser.


Ben Hom


Re: N.X. 8612 partial at Handley, WV, in June 1954

Bruce Smith
 

On Nov 7, 2008, at 1:22 PM, al.kresse wrote:

Folks,

While working on an offset-side hopper car project, I noticed a partial
overhead shot of a light colored, wooden with outside steel stakes and
diagons, 55-ton, N.X. reefer. It has wooden hatches and running boards
and steel roof.

It is marked "When empty return to Pennsylvania R.R. Falling Waters, W.
Va."

What does N.X. stand for and were they associated with other reefer
fleets, former or currently in 1954 . . . . and why on the C&O mainline
in a drag of coal cars?
Al,

You must not read TKM <G>. NX was National Car Co. which was the meat reefer subsidiary of "our companies" (FGE, WFE, BRE). Many of their reefers were hand-me-downs from FGE etc...

As for what it was doing there - either an empty being returned or perhaps a local load. I don't know about the C&O but on many other railroads, cars like that, esp empty would be used to make up the tonnage of trains.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0


Re: from 40' 6' to 50' 6" box cars

cinderandeight@...
 

Everyone,
The last 40' 6" box cars on the PRR (new built) were the X54/X54A classes
of 1960. They were built to haul can good, were insulated and had plug
doors. Campbell's Soap in Camden, NJ was the primary user of these cars.
While the PRR itself never stretched 40' cars to 50', PC had 50's
stretche car. I think these were done shortly after the merger at the Sam Rea shops
in Holidaysburg, but prehaps they were done by DSI shopss before the merger.
Does anyone know? These cars were former NYC lot 968-B box cars built in
1948/49. The resulting cars were given class X85 by the PC (although some cars
seemed to have kept their 968-B lot numbers). I recall that some of these cars
were stenciled for explosives service. I saw one bad ordered car with a huge
gapping hole in it side sheets at one end of the car...bang? One interesting
feature of these cars was that they had two types of roof panels. The original
roof panels had Stanray retangular panels, while the added panels at the car's
center were Stanray triangular panel ones. It would make for an interesting
looking model. In later times some of them were leased, and lettered for AUG
(Augusta Railroad Co..) in the 144000 series. I haven't been able to find an
ORER listing for these cars.
Rich Burg
**************AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and all other
Holiday needs. Search Now.
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212792382x1200798498/aol?redir=http://searchblog.aol.com/2008/11/04/happy-holidays-from
-aol-search/?ncid=emlcntussear00000001)


N.X. 8612 partial at Handley, WV, in June 1954

al.kresse <water.kresse@...>
 

Folks,

While working on an offset-side hopper car project, I noticed a partial
overhead shot of a light colored, wooden with outside steel stakes and
diagons, 55-ton, N.X. reefer. It has wooden hatches and running boards
and steel roof.

It is marked "When empty return to Pennsylvania R.R. Falling Waters, W.
Va."

What does N.X. stand for and were they associated with other reefer
fleets, former or currently in 1954 . . . . and why on the C&O mainline
in a drag of coal cars?

Looks like C&O HS neg CSPR 10057.006

Al Kresse


Re: Swift reefer colors

Joseph
 

What color should the roof be on my Sunshine 2500 series car? (I am on another reefer jag, so I might actually get a few built!) Instrucions say black, I have heard BCR?

TIA,
Joe Binish

----- Original Message -----
From: comox11
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 2:25 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Swift reefer colors


Can anyone comment on what the color of Swift reefers was just after
the 1938 cutoff on billboard schemes, and perhaps when the earliest of
the red scheme cars appeared. Thanks Guy Brooke


Re: reefer book

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

my apologies to the list--didn't notice this was supposed to be an off-list exchange.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

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