Think they'll come with wire grabs? If they're anything
like the Walthers 2893 PS-2, i wouldn't feel too excited.
Wasn't this prototype in the old MDC lineup, which means
Athearn still has the tooling?

Tim O'Connor

--- In STMFC@..., "Curt Fortenberry" <arrphoto@...> wrote:

This caught me by surprise (yea!):

http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/932-40501

But at twice the price of the DMIR versions. Yikes.

Curt Fortenberry

The Walthers description says the cars were built to transport the "heavier iron ores of
Michigan's Upper Peninsula." I always thought the (slight) dimensional differences between
the Minnesota and Michigan style ore cars was the fact that the holding pockets on the iron
ore docks were spaced differently. Is Michigan ore denser, or is there another explanation?
Thanks for any help.

Sincerely,
Robert D. Heninger
Iowa City, Iowa

There may be a future for our hobby but what will it be?

First come the (full sized) trains.............then the fascination, and
maybe after that the modeling.

The trouble is that there are fewer and fewer branch lines which once served
every town, with sidings for multiple consignees...........small retail
lumber yards (now served by trucks if they haven't been put out of business by
the "Big Box" stores), coal yards (all gone, of course and displaced by oil
dealers, once served by rail and now by trucks)..........and even the grocery
stores and hardware stores received goods by rail.

That was the "retail" business of the rail lines, which drove them to near
disaster. Now the rails are in the "wholesale" (transportation)
business...........containers, containers containers..........and bulk commodities, with
fewer and fewer "retail" runs. Oh, sure.........the shortlines have absorbed
the branch line shed by the trunk carriers, but the point is that the daily
switch runs, locals, way freights and "pick-ups" are largely gone and with them
the daily contact with the trains that once was. It's harder to introduce the
interest when the subject matter is harder to find.

We.............the collective "we" don't travel by trains nearly as much as
once before and that too represents a lesser contact. A youthful recollection
of travel from New England to the Midwest in a roomette car is still vivid,
and after decades have passed.

Yet, they (trains) are still working, moving machines which as its own
attraction. While steam engines (once characterized as the "most human of all
machines........") are gone from the everyday, they can still be seen in more and
more typical settings on operating museums. It surely takes but a single
ride or visit to perhaps create another railfan...........and then maybe a
modeler who can, by miniature bring home and revisit that stunning memory.
Diesels, to some, have similar attraction...........and if they can attract a newer
modeler, then all the better.

New offerings from manufactures have preserved and enhanced the hobby, in my
opinion. The simple reason is that all of this "new" stuff works.........it
runs and it really does work. While this list is populated by builders (and
kit builders and the "resinators"), the overall age of the list population is
such that all of us can remember building (trying to build) early kits, many
of which were dreadful even for a modeler with some acquired skill and
workshop capability.

Nothing, I think can discourage and drive from any hobby or pursuit poor
results.........or poor products. I grew up with only the pot metal steam engine
kits and, aside from minimal painting skills (no airbrush) it was struggle to
get the final product to run (all other variables of things like fiber tie
strip track and switches that were troublesome at best aside). Frequent
magazine articles continually addressed the problems of side rod bind and gear
noise..........all with uncertain results and often representing insoluble
problems.

I have no such troubles since I'm primarily an engine builder, but for those
who aren't the offerings of Broadway and MTH run right out of the box.
This's to the greater benefit of the hobby so far as newer enthusiasts don't run
aground on the shoal or poorly running equipment. That may seem to "we"
modelers and builders as instant gratification...........but it's unfortunately(?)
the way things are.

So, at long wind, on the [steam era freight car -- to keep to topic]"kits"
which are another manifestation of the need for instant
gratification..........but the "ready to roll" cars DO work...........and the historic "coupler
conspiracy" troubles of matching dummy, Baker, Mantua, Roundhouse or X-2f
couplers is past with the industry "standardization with Kadee compatibles.

I still build kits and bash them too, but in the sense of preserving some
future....and introducing newer modelers to the hobby the ready to run --
ready to roll products DO serve a purpose. If those are what keep the
manufacturers in the business then "we" shouldn't complain. It seems that with resin
kits [continually improving]and some higher quality injection molded kits there
will always be some kits.....though kits may not be the norm or the larger
part of products to select from.

Enough...................

Mal Houck
**************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination.
Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out
(http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002)

Which message was that, I can't find it???

Curt Fortenberry

This caught me by surprise (yea!):

http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/932-40501

But at twice the price of the DMIR versions. Yikes.

Curt Fortenberry

Try a children's hospital or Cub Scout group. Some children recovering from illnesses would probably love to build something with their hands. There is a model railroading badge for the scouts.

AME

Bob,

OT, but I could not resist<grin>. When I went to pick up my wife for
our first date, she invited me in to meet her parents. I knew I was
in the right place because the current issue of Trains magazine was on
the coffee table.

When SP 4449 was going from southern California to the World's Fair (I
think) in 1984 our daughter was only a few months old. She went with
me, brought the kid, took photos, fed, changed and even stood close to
the track with our daughter in her hands so I could get a photo of
them as SP 4449 went by.

Time stopped in November 1941
Walter M. Clark
Pullman, Washington, USA

--- In STMFC@..., Bob McCarthy <thesupplycar@...> wrote:

Eric,
 
     How about we go to Greenwood and get some pictures for you. 

What else do you need.

 
     We are in Columbia, SC and not that far from Greenwood. 

Luckily I am married to a woman who has riddden in steam engine cabs
as a child.  She likes and understand railroads.

 
     Want a show of hands for those married guys who have a wife who

will say while having dinner, "You know we need to start a communter
line from Newberry, SC to Columbia, SC."

I submit I am very lucky, she even has relatives, Uncle Shelby Lowe,

who wrote the book on Southern steam, a Grandfather E.E. Lowe who was
the Senior Conductor on The Southern Cresent when he retired, with a
Great Grandfather Alonzo Lowe who was an engineer for a line that the
Southern absorbed. 

 
    So she will say 'road trip' if you send me the website of the

museum.  We will get everything we can for you. 

 
     Are you in HO?
 
Bob McCarthy
Modeling in Scale S the Mighty Central of Georgia in the 1950's

--- On Wed, 10/15/08, Eric Hiser <ehiser@...> wrote:

From: Eric Hiser <ehiser@...>
Subject: [STMFC] Piedmont & Northern Caboose
To: STMFC@...
Date: Wednesday, October 15, 2008, 3:43 AM






I am looking for a photograph of a Piedmont & Northern Caboose,

preferably

during the early part of the 20th Century. I have checked the P&N

book, but

the photo in it is not very helpful. I know that there is a preserved
caboose at the Railroad Historical Center in Greenwood, SC, but they

do not

have a photo of any of the equipment on the webpage. Does anyone have a
photo that they could share or a reference to where one may be? It

would be

appreciated!

Eric Hiser
Phoenix, AZ
ehiser@...


















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Joe Berger wrote:

Norm:Charcoal heaters normally were placed inside the ice bunkers, down through the hatches, and used only in winter, when temperatures were too cold for the shipment . . .

Joe, you're misunderstanding the problem. The Canadian cars had permanently installed heaters beneath the car floor (maybe because it's a longer winter <g>), so this has nothing to do with ice bunker heaters.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

--- In STMFC@..., "Norm" <ndrez@...> wrote:

I grew up on Ambroid models where the first instruction in the kit

was "Assemble Car", but at least the drawings were totally

unambiguous. Nevertheless, I'm having a devil of a time with one

part in the F&C CN 8 Hatch Reefer Kit.

There's a part called a "Charcoal Heater" which is not identified by

any drawing or sketch, but I think I've figured out that it

has to be the almost -- but not quite -- rectangular lump with what

looks like a grate in the front sticking out.

My real problem is that I can't figure out from either the drawings

nor the photographs what orientation this thing is to be

mounted in. Any and all hints, guesses, conjectures, and links to

other pictures are greatly appreciated.

Norm

Norm:Charcoal heaters normally were placed inside the ice bunkers,
down through the hatches, and used only in winter, when temperatures
were too cold for the shipment: i.e., you don't want oranges or apples
freezing, so you use heaters to ship them in winter. My suspicion is
that this items would not normally be visible on or in the car....is
would be placed somewhere trackside at an icing facility. Can you
send a pic, and some visual measurement reference for size? (like,
sitting next to the car or a hatch?)
Joe Berger, Great Northern Cascade Division

I, too, am pessimistic about the future of our hobby in spite of the
continuous array of new and improved products. (Do we need still more
F7s?) But someone is buying all of that stuff.

I open our piddly little RR museum often. We have a play table with
Thomas stuff - tracks, buildings, cars and locomotives - which is very
popular with the "kindergarten" crowd. Parents have trouble getting
the little ones turn around and look at our 151 year old locomotive.

On a regular basis, but not daily, parents bring in sons in the 10 to
12 age group that are really seriously interested in "trains." They
typically have a train set. A member or two of almost every school
class that comes through shows some serious interest in railroads.

There may be a future for our hobby but what will it be? Stay tuned.
We will all find out together.

Gene Green
Out in the west Texas town of El Paso

Somewhere, I just know some modeler who has a prototype-freelance railroad named the "Central Illinois" is smiling . . . perhaps he's an employee of a certain model railroad manufacturer????

Marty

Actually...
from the description on the Rapido site;
this was more SNAFU (production error)...
than Foobie (intentional FUBAR)...

Richard

Fred--

For the record, the manufacturer, Rapido Trains, admitted the FUBAR
and will replace every "Central Illinois" baggage car with a car
having the correct "Illinois Central" lettering in exchange for just
the UPC's from the box ends. The modeller can keep the car, and do
whatever they want with it.

Here's the announcement from Rapido--scroll about halfway down...

http://www.rapidotrains.com/telegraph12.html

Steve Lucas.

- In STMFC@..., Frederick Freitas <prrinvt@...> wrote:

Bruce,
 
         Wait for it,  the cluster can't be far behind now that

Central Illinois passenger cars have hit the stores!  One good thing
is this list; it keeps the real modelers from falling into the traps
of want vs correct models. Keep he proto info comming.

 
Fred Freitas

Ted,

i will take the B-59-15.
Paul

I have made a lot of decisions regarding fleet, layout, etc., and
have some Sunshine kits that I don't need. Here they are. Please
contact me OFF LIST!!!!!!

3.3 - ACL USRA double sheathed steel rebuilt box car for express/head
end service with Cape Line Allied trucks - $45
26.1 - PRR X29 flat ends, Youngstown doors, patch panels - $30
29.2 - Birmingham Southern War Emergency box car - $35
29.4 - Central of Georgia War Emergency box car - $35
29.10 - Alton War Emergency box car - $35
29.16 - Northern Pacific War Emergency box car - $35
38.11R - SP B-50-15 - wood side, Viking roof, end door - $35
64.21 - PRR X26C - Superior door, Murphy rect panel roof
67.32 - CNW 8 post steel gon

Paypal preferred, M.O. and checks tolerated. Shipping quotes will be
provided once you email me expressing your interest. First come,
first served. tculotta at speedwitch dot com.

Regards,
Ted Culotta

Tim, Get a table at a train show (like ours or Springfield), put them out with a decent price, and I'll bet a lot of them will sell.
Norm Larkin

Elden,
That one I can answer. I build resin kits. Lots and lots of resin
kits. Both for myself and my customers. (Custom Builder)
I've built at least 300 in the last 4 years. On occasion I put aside
work for my customers just so I can build something for myself for
the sheer joy of it.
There is a shift away from building your own stuff, but there is also
a large number of model train enthusiats who are afraid to challenge
themselves by trying something new.
I, like I'm sure many of the best modelers, am not afraid to risk
messing up an expensive model by delving into a skill set new to me.
I know that I have an inate ability to build stuff. It's what I do,
and there are people out there who can't use a hammer to save their
lives. The RTR world allows them to enjoy the better looking stuff
without risking failure.
Pierre Oliver
http://www.elgincarshops.com/

That brings up another question. Someone told me that no one

builds resin

kits. Is this true?

Elden Gatwood


Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
<mailto:thompson%40signaturepress.com>
Publishers of books on railroad history

Tony;

The vast majority of us that model are now "older" (at least than we
care to think), and part of a group growing smaller by the day. . .

C'mon, Elden, this view point has been around forever and it's
still not true. There was an editorial in Model Railroader in the 1950s
about how the average age of modelers was increasing by one year per
year and the hobby was doomed.

You get me wrong. I am not saying the hobby is doomed, it actually seems to
be just fine. What I am saying is there are fewer people building things.
One of the joys I get from this hobby is seeing the stupendous stuff other
people build. It motivates me to do better (as do photos and the real
thing). I don't have much top talk about with someone that bought a Kadee
box car, unless they know how to weather....

Tim is right; it is not in the interest of those under 40.

This too is not new. Plenty of people under 40 have pressing
family and career obligations. Yes, the modeling hobby has always been
dominated by somewhat older people (the immense majority of them men),
and it still is.I think that those of us who enjoy building things are wired
that way. Most people are not. That's always been true and is pretty
likely to continue. Of course, video game and other computer
entertainment is gigantic among young people today, but I'd bet that
most of them are not wired to build freight cars anyway.
The RTR revolution has certainly changed what is on hobby
shops shelves. But I wonder if those who are wired to build things have
actually changed much. My opinion is that those buying RTR are, in
large numbers, those who used to buy kits and wish they were built so
they'd have complete cars. Now they don't have to put all those kits in
the closet so as to avoid building them.



That brings up another question. Someone told me that no one builds resin
kits. Is this true?

Elden Gatwood


Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
<mailto:thompson%40signaturepress.com>
Publishers of books on railroad history

John Stokes wrote:

So all the kits produced and model railroad items of all types that Walthers wholesales and also sells retail through its own shop are not as important or more so to its bottom line? Your statement does not make sense, I must be missing something so some expansion on your comment might be illuminating.

John, I'd guess Jerry meant important to HIM.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

So all the kits produced and model railroad items of all types that Walthers wholesales and also sells retail through its own shop are not as important or more so to its bottom line? Your statement does not make sense, I must be missing something so some expansion on your comment might be illuminating.

John Stokes
Bellevue, WA



To: STMFC@...: timboconnor@...: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 18:14:37 +0000Subject: Re: [STMFC] Kits and modelers and the future