Date   

Re: air hose brackets

Misc Clark
 

a picture, please, Mont?
Thanks, Clark Cone

On 8/12/08, Mont Switzer <mhts_switzerm@...> wrote:

I had the opportunity last evening to install a set of the new Precision
Scale Models cast brass air hose brackets. Mounting went well and I ended
up with a sturdy assembly that matches the prototype on many freight cars.

When drilling the bottom of the car to accept the mounting lugs a #69 or
#70 hole is recommended. The bracket must be cored out with a number 75
drill bit, about as large as you can go there. Even then the PSC air hoses
are a tight fit requiring a little filing on the air hose shanks.

Making good models is getting easier as we go. Mont Switzer





Ore Cars

Justin Kahn
 

This may be old news to many on the list, but I recently acquired a copy of that ancient standard, Suprey's Steam Trains of the Soo, and found on page 57
a view of a 2-8-2 pushing carloads of coal onto the coaling tower track at Moose Lake MN, the first a Frisco panelside twin hopper, the next an unidentifiable offset side twin, and the next forward what is clearly an ore car (it looks like one of their own) full of black diamonds. The one in front of the ore car may also be another, but I can't be certain.
Previously, I had mostly planned on using the few ore cars I'd picked up for an on-line sand and gravel operation, as I knew from research that
superannuated ore cars ended up in that service, but it is good to see them used in road service, and presumably the Soo one got to the depot in a regular
freight train.
For all of us who remember when starting in HO often meant a Varney Dockside and a set of three ore cars, and we felt uncomfortable about specialized cars being used in freight service, this is a kind of vindication.


Jace Kahn, General Manager
Ceres and Canisteo RR Co.


_________________________________________________________________
Get more from your digital life. Find out how.
http://www.windowslive.com/default.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Home2_082008


Re: Freight car distribution

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

My, my...lots of interest in frt car distribution.

Dave Nelson writes:

"Here's a simple explanation of the issue:
---------
Safeway sells all sorts of things, one of which is Yoplait Yogurt.
Railroads move all sorts of freight cars, one of which is a SP 40', etc,
etc, etc boxcar.

On average, not every shopping cart has any Yoplait Yogurts.
On average, not every train has any SP boxcars.

When Yoplait yogurt is on sale, one of Dave Nelson's shopping carts once had
20+ Yoplait yogurts in it.
When UP is pulling empties across Sherman Hill one of UP's train once had
20+ SP boxcars in it."

Oooops. On April 16, 1949 a UP frt train moved East pulled by Big Boy 4004 [ which still exists in Holiday Park in Cheyenne and BLI now makes a model of it...hmmm ] with 31 SP box cars in tow. MT? Nope. Most carried lumber but a few had other things. This train was one of five "lumber" trains in Fraley's book. The first train on Mar 1, had 39 cars carrying lumber, 7 were SP box cars. Train two on Mar 3,'49, was 77 cars in length and contained 27 SP cars carrying lumber. Of the 27, 25 were box cars and 2 were flats. Compare this to a train on Apr 7, '49, which contained 98
cars. Of these, 58 carried lumber and 4 were SP box cars. One more SP box car was in the train giving SP box cars a 5% presence....closer to the national average. The train on April 20 contained 32 cars of lumber, one of which was an SP car. The video tape The Big Boy Collection contains several trains containing many SP box cars, the most significant one being the "infamous" one pulling 36 PFE reefers followed by at least 36 SP box cars. I have speculated...but cannot confirm...that the shot was near Buford, WY, and might be westbound. Tim Gilbert proposed that this train was one of MT's but we have no proof.

Dave continues with:

"So which do you want to talk about -- one of my one-of shopping carts when
Yoplait is on sale or the overall average of what Safeway sees day in and
day out?"

Well, with regard to the UP frt trains, we really don't know if the lumber was on sale or not. Meaning, we don't know how common the lumber trains were. Their consist with regard to SP box cars is inconsistent as well. Nevertheless, there were certainly UP frt trains in the Super Nova class of containing a hugely larger number of SP box cars than the national % would indicate.

"IMO only the overall average has any informative value as you can
create from that any combination of items for the individual events as you
see fit. OTOH, following the one-of event **as-if** it had informative
value does nothing but create identical events, repeated ad-nauseum."

Meaning...I think...that unusual trains were...well...unusual? Actually, I don't think the data shows that. In fact, it is surprising to me anyhow to note the variety of the consists. For example, the train on 3-11-49 contained 83 cars....26 carrying ore in box cars. Not a UP car in the train...although some PFE reefers were present.

Tim O'Connor wrote:

Mike Brock wrote

... an error of 200% ... an error of 34% ... an error of 100%.
"Many people who don't understand statistics think that any
variance from the MEAN indicates an ERROR."

Well...I thought the purpose of the theory was for it to project a number for box cars of various RR's to be found on the rails of other RR's. Having lived in Las Vegas for six months and having received training at some of their best crap tables I do understand that the laws of probability do predict but don't guarantee. Nevertheless, the theory was/is only a theory and I think its complete validity is still open to discussion. IOW, I didn't accept that it did not treat closely associated RR's differently from others...i.e., for UP, SP as compared to NP or FEC. Tim Gilbert and I discussed this at length.

"If everyone in
the U.S. had no money, and Bill Gates had a trillion dollars,
then the AVERAGE American would have $3,333 dollars. Then when
Mike visits his friends and finds that no one in the room has
any money, he'd call that an ERROR. Which it isn't."

No. I'd call that strange [ not unlike those 36 SP box cars in the train ] given that Bill Gates is an American and lives in the U.S.

To me, the issue is that a theory was put forth...based on wheel reports...that would give some basis for determining the distribution of box cars on other RR's. The theory...as I understand it...was that the % of foreign RR box cars would match the % of the foreign RR's box cars in the national box car fleet. It sounds worthy but, IMO, the proof of the puddin' is in the eatn'. IOW, how does it work with the available data? Not bad but apparently it doesn't work for box cars of the home RR on its own rails. Tim Gilbert and Dave Nelson apparently observed this and reacted accordingly. Thus, home RR box cars are expected to be present in about twice their national avg on their own rails. OK. I don't think it works well for box cars of closely associated RR's either...as in the case of SP, CB&Q and C&NW cars with respect to UP. Why would this be? Frankly, I don't care. It's what the available data shows. It's as simple as that.

Even assuming I am correct, how does any of this pedict or establish a frt car population for the modeler? Well...it helps. OTOH, as I have shown above, it doesn't work well in determining the population of individual trains. It helps in that we know that box cars went everywhere...as did stock cars and to some extent gons. However, at least on the UP, we cannot ignore the fact that of 34 frt trains in the spring of 1949, 15 had one or less SP box cars, 9 had none at all while two had astronomically high numbers of 27 and 31 [ all loaded ]. Almost as strange as the fact that no one in the U.S. had any money [ they bought too many frt car models? ] while one of those in the U.S. had a trillion dollars [ and no frt cars? ].

Mike Brock


Re: Freight car distribution

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Ben Hom wrote:
Tony, Tim and I had discussed before he passed away. Tim had drafted a paper with his findings, but it was extremely detailed and by his own admission something we probably could not have pushed in the hobby press, even in a publication such as RP Cyc.
Ben, I would be willing to help, perhaps with editing it somewhat to fit what a publisher such as RP CYC might want. I would advocate checking with Ed and Pat before assuming that it couldn't be done.
I note that several list members are chiming in with tangential issues: assigned service cars, local and regional freight operations, etc. These are certainly interesting and for some modeling needs, would overwhelm other considerations. And Mike Brock's desire to model specific trains is also a challenging problem for anyone who deals with a specific time and place. But this is not what Tim's focus was. It was on the free-running cars, primarily box cars. It is important to realize that those cars DO NOT generally follow the patterns of those other cars just referenced.
I am not criticizing the discussion of other issues, which as I said are definitely important and need research. What I am criticizing is anyone who thinks they can fling out an opinion on box cars without some solid data. If you're one of them, be aware that Tim raised the bar far over your head.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Quick Refrigerator Express Lines (QREX)

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Aug 12, 2008, at 11:20 AM, rwitt_2000 wrote:

Can anyone provide more information about the Quick Refrigerator
Express
Lines that leased cars to the Schlosser Brothers Dairy of Indiana?

http://hvrm.railfan.net/historical/021_Schlosser.html

Who built these cars and how long did the lease arrangement last?
The we
site states that the photo is from Howard Ameling.

Did this photo make the forthcoming "Billboard" reefer book?










No, but another photo of the same car is in the book. And QREX
reporting marks identified not the "Quick Refrigerator Express Lines"
but Quaker City Refrigerator Line, which has its own chapter in the
book with many other photos. Quaker City was a branch of the Quaker
City Tank Line, founded by George Woodsmith, the same guy who also
founded the Standard Tank Car Co. When Woodsmith's overextended
business interests went belly up in 1928, General American took over
both STC and the Quaker City fleets.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Freight car distribution

Cyril Durrenberger
 

The mix of freight cars to use on a model railroad is indeed a complex topic. I have a few comments.

1. The mix can be expected to vary significantly from year to year and from railroad to railroad, so general statistics may not provide a good answer for the specific railroad and year or era that one is modeling.

2. The mix of cars on a model railroad is going to be greatly influenced by the industries the model railroad "serves", that is the industries that have placed on the model railroad. If the model railroad has through freights then the mixture of cars on these freights can be more like what was found on the railroad at that time and place. Industry and railroad wide data can portray a very different picture than the cars that were used at a specific location or segment of the line.

For example the GN and NP had fleets of ore cars used in Minnesota, but it is not likely that these ore cars showed up in the states to the west of Minnesota. Also during the time period of interest to this list, the ore traffic was very seasonal. In most years they did not have much ore traffic when the ports where not open due to ice. In some cases they did have a few all rail trains.

3. The annual reports that each railroad sent to the state railroad commission contain data that should be considered. I am familiar with the reports sent to Texas and Minnesota during the time period of most interest to me -1900 to 1920. The exact data varied from year to year, but they had statistics on the tonnage or car loads of a number of different commodities carried on the railroad. For many years this was divided into classes - loaded on road and unloaded on road, loaded off road and unloaded on road, loaded on road and sent off road. Loaded off road and unloaded off road (sometimes called bridge traffic).

4. Prior to 1920 there was a list of mileage (or fees paid related to mileage) for private owned cars. Since in many cases the refrigerator and tank cars were privately owned, this can provide information on these cars that would be seen on the railroad. In general there are patterns, but these vary from year to year. For example there were no PFE cars prior to 1906, since that is when they began business, and the number of miles increased as their fleet became larger. The mileage for tank cars grew greatly in the teens and the number of companies shipping became much larger each year. Many times there would be a car from a private owner that would show up for one trip for one year, and never again.

5. I used the ORER data for the year of concern to me, 1910 to develop the fleet of SP Atlantic Lines box cars and SP Pacific Lines box cars to use on my railroad. Basically these were based on the percentage of ownership for this year, assuming that the cars used would likely reflect these data. The Atlantic Lines owned a large fleet of flat cars to serve the wood products industries so this was taken into account.

6. I have also used a process to determine the cars to use from other railroads, but will not go into that here.

I can provide more information if desired, but remember we are talking about 1910. The process would be applicable to almost any era. I had written a detailed article on this process for the tank car fleet I am using and sent it to Scale Rails. They wanted to publish it, but lost all of the photos. I was not included to go through all of that work again.

Cyril Durrenberger


Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:
On Aug 12, 2008, at 8:13 AM, devansprr wrote:
For me (WWII PRR main in central PA) the challenge for a boxcar fleet
is how many NYC cars would there be? Should they be weighted heavier
than the Reading (interchange at Harrisburg)? I would expect the PRR
agents might quickly send empty NYC cars back to interchange points
empty and load New England bound freight into PRR cars.

During WWII the PRR had 9.2% of the North American boxcar fleet, the
NYC 6.1% (1st and 4th, with CP and CN 2nd and 3rd). Pictures suggest
PRR boxcars vastly outnumber NYC box cars on PRR rails, and in fact
some of the midwestern roads, with boxcars fleets significantly less
than half the size of NYC's, are much more prevelant. So how many NYC
box cars should I have? I think I have to have... one? ;-)
Dave,

If you've read my article in TKM on the PRR fleet ;^) you know that
the PRR averaged around 50% home road, but that includes about 75%
home road hoppers, 50% home road gons and 25% (estimated) home road
boxcars. Those numbers also reflect cars stored or awaiting repairs,
so the actual number in trains is slightly less.

For the rest of your boxcar fleet, the NYC cars should be roughly 6%
of your total fleet. Thus if you have 100 non-PRR boxcars, six
should be NYC. Of those cars, a substantial portion should be the
USRA steel boxcar (Westerfield, and styrene?(someday).

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|
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Re: trucks and paint for PRR H30 covered hopper

Bruce Smith
 

On Aug 12, 2008, at 12:59 PM, Mark Pierce wrote:

I've got a Funaro & Camerlengo kit #6841 of a Pennsylvania Railroad H30
covered hopper with black circle Keystone decals. The instructions are
insufficient to select the appropriate body color or trucks, so I need
your help in answering these questions.
1. What is the appropriate body color? I presume it is light-colored
since the lettering is black. (Instructions call for a brownish-red)
It is always interesting to read F&C directions <G>. The original color of these cars was FCC (Freight Car Color), an oxide red, with white lettering. Subsequently, they were painted GRAY with black lettering. H30A cars built new in the mid 1950s got gray with black shadow keystones. See
http://www.bcenterpriseinc.com/kits/2fc6841l.jpg
for a model photo

2. What period of time was the black Keystone scheme used on the H30s?
I'll let someone more knowledgable get the precise dates, but it was sometime between the late 1940s and 1954
3. What style trucks are appropriate for the model?
2E-F2 Crown
2E-F10 Double Truss
2E-F11 National
2E-F12 Young
2E-F15 Young
2E-F14 National
2E-F4A
2E-f22 A.S.F. Ride control

See http://prr.railfan.net/freight/classpage.html?class=H30 for number series

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0


Re: Freight car distribution

cvsne <cvsne@...>
 

Ben,

Contact me off list on this - I think the new e-magazine "Model Rail
Hobbyist," may be an ideal outlet for publishing some of Tim's work.

I planned to share some of Tim's LCL research (a whole other kettle of
fish) in some way in that magazine.

Marty


Re: Naperville speaker question

water.kresse@...
 

Folks,

Many thanks to all those LIST members stepping-in on this subject. I've been spoiled at the C&O HS Conferences and Cleveland NOARS AMC conference with having at least two members bring in their laptops where I can send them a CD and have the PPT pre-loaded and checked out before they get there to the conference. I believe I'm using Office 2003.

I haven't heard how long the presentations are suppose to be. Last time that I presented at Naperville, I used "flimsies" made partially on a copier at work (last minute changes) but mostly at the MailBox, Etc. now UPS Store. I know folks were also late dragging in to get seated. Seems we all feel shorted in the Q&A sessions.

Al Kresse

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Douglas Harding" <dharding@...>
There is an option in PowerPoint to embed your fonts, video clips, or anything else that PowerPoint may link to on your computer.
When you save your presentation to a disk or thumb drive, clic on File/package for CD/options/embedded TrueType fonts. This will
ensure your chosen fonts, which you worked so hard selecting and formatting for visual impact, will be saved with your PowerPoint
file. This will ensure your presentation will look the same on any computer. You can then copy your presentation to a CD or
designated drive. It is also a good precaution to also copy your video or music clips as well, just in case.

Or before you save, go to tools/options/save and clic on the embed font as true type. This will also save the fonts exactly as you
created in that particular file.

You can even save your presentation with PowerPoint Viewer loaded, so it can be shown on a computer that does not have PowerPoint,
really nice when you do know the computer you will be "borrowing".

I travel with my own laptop, remote clicker, and sometimes my projector. It is also smart to have a copy of your presentation on a
CD or thumb drive as well. I had a computer die after arriving in Calif one year. I have used provided projectors without
problems, and the organizers are often happy to see another projector. At a NMRA National I caught someone downloading
presentations from the provided pre-loaded computer. I was not happy as my presentation at that time had photos that were the
property of a Library. I permission to use them, but not distribute. If someone asked I was more than happy to share/provide what
I could. But I was not happy someone was taking without asking.

At Naperville, Martin's son has assisted with technical setups, but he can not be in every room at the beginning of each
presentation. At Cocoa Beach, Jeff Aley is the technical guy. Again he can not be in each room at the beginning of each
presentation. So it is wise to be familiar with the equipment yourself, or have a friend along who is familiar. I can recall at an
NMRA National a number of years ago watching a very frustrated Andy Sperandeo having to cancel his presentation because the
technical guys could not get Andy's computer to work with the provided projector.

Doug Harding
www.iowacentralrr.org


Quick Refrigerator Express Lines (QREX)

rwitt_2000
 

Can anyone provide more information about the Quick Refrigerator Express
Lines that leased cars to the Schlosser Brothers Dairy of Indiana?

http://hvrm.railfan.net/historical/021_Schlosser.html

Who built these cars and how long did the lease arrangement last? The we
site states that the photo is from Howard Ameling.

Did this photo make the forthcoming "Billboard" reefer book?

Bob Witt


Farm Security Administration/Roy Stryker Documentary

lnbill <bwelch@...>
 

For those of us who have enjoyed the freight car photographs
(mandetory content)that are a part of the "Farm Security
Administration/Office of War Information" efforts to document the
United States, PBS has a documentry about Roy Styker, the genious
behind this project and the FSA scheduled to air this coming Monday
night at 10 PM. Check your local listing to verify broadcast time in
your area.

Bill Welch


Re: Freight car distribution

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Ton Thompson wrote:
"We really need to get it into print somewhere, since it's natural
that not everyone has access to, or wants to access, the archives of
this particular list. Maybe RP CYC? Ed or Pat, are your scanning
this?"

Tony, Tim and I had discussed before he passed away. Tim had drafted
a paper with his findings, but it was extremely detailed and by his
own admission something we probably could not have pushed in the
hobby press, even in a publication such as RP Cyc. Our biggest
hangup was how to express the information in terms that most
hobbyists could understand without losing the heart of his analysis.
It's my desire to follow through on this, but it's competing with
many other projects, not to mention the day job and the reserves.

Unfortunately, this thread has shown this work to be sorely needed.
I share Dave Nelson's frustation - we seem to keep coming back to
this subject, and people continue to fail to look in the archives and
continue to ignore Tim's work. It's true it's not the be-all and end-
all on this subject, but it has far more analytical rigor than the
unsupported opinions that have been presented over the past few
days. Tony's challenge that the burden of proof rests with those
making the argument is dead on - if you think the "Boomer Pete/Chubb
Neighbors Weigh Heavier" is a more valid model, then back it up with
some data. If you can't, then you're just wasting all of our time.


Ben Hom


trucks and paint for PRR H30 covered hopper

Mark Pierce <marcoperforar@...>
 

I've got a Funaro & Camerlengo kit #6841 of a Pennsylvania Railroad H30
covered hopper with black circle Keystone decals. The instructions are
insufficient to select the appropriate body color or trucks, so I need
your help in answering these questions.
1. What is the appropriate body color? I presume it is light-colored
since the lettering is black. (Instructions call for a brownish-red)
2. What period of time was the black Keystone scheme used on the H30s?
3. What style trucks are appropriate for the model?
Thanks.
Mark Pierce


air hose brackets

Mont Switzer <mhts_switzerm@...>
 

I had the opportunity last evening to install a set of the new Precision Scale Models cast brass air hose brackets.  Mounting went well and I ended up with a sturdy assembly that matches the prototype on many freight cars.
 
When drilling the bottom of the car to accept the mounting lugs a #69 or #70 hole is recommended.  The bracket must be cored out with a number 75 drill bit, about as large as you can go there.  Even then the PSC air hoses are a tight fit requiring a little filing on the air hose shanks.
 
Making good models is getting easier as we go.  Mont Switzer




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Freight car distribution

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Steve Lucas wrote:
You are very correct about the tax implications for Canadian roads when their equipment (locos and cars) were used in the US for a longer time than necessary. CN, CP, and BC Rail all had cars built in the US after the timeframe of STMFC to try to deal with this.

Maybe I'm missing something, but under Car Service rules, could empty cars not be loaded "in the direction of their home road"? If so, this would have been a licence to do practically what the railroad wanted to with an empty car. And would explain a lot of anamolies.
Yes, the Car Service rules were really consensus standards, and we know from the testimony of many people who worked in past eras that the rules were NOT followed if not convenient. But remember, the responsible entities on tax issues were not Car Service but governmental bodies. I don't know about you, Steve, but my experience with the tax people is that they frown on doing things which are against the rules but "convenient." Any taxation authority which got the bit in their teeth might well be quite aggressive on this point, though I have no idea if this actually did happen with freight cars in the steam era.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


freight car distribution

ed_mines
 

Frieght car distribution in the steam was effected by the seasons,
particularly hoppers in the northeast.

When there was a shortage of hoppers in the dead of winter anthracite
carriers were in no hurry to return foreign road hoppers. There was
no reason to keep them (and pay demurrage) when the home road had an
excess of it's own hoppers.

I expect there must have been seasonable effects for reefers too,
depending on which crops were in season.

The box car shortage during and after WWII and the special exchange
rules it caused also effected freight car distribution.

Mike Brock's analysis of box car distribution makes sense. Businesses
would be more likely to purchase goods from the closest suppliers so
it is likely to find more regional cars than expected.

A couple of years ago Schuler posted consists of some Erie fast
freight cars that were anything but typical. They inluded a big block
of Swifts reefers being shipped empty from Chicago to Boston.

Ed


Re: Freight car distribution

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Steve Lucas wrote:
I never had the pleasure of meeting Tim, but it's patently obvious that his work was very thorough . . . To say that his work is ignored? Not by me. I appreciate your referencing it.
Glad you've looked it over. I think it's quite impressive. We really need to get it into print somewhere, since it's natural that not everyone has access to, or wants to access, the archives of this particular list. Maybe RP CYC? Ed or Pat, are your scanning this?

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Freight car distribution

Bruce Smith
 

On Aug 12, 2008, at 8:13 AM, devansprr wrote:
For me (WWII PRR main in central PA) the challenge for a boxcar fleet
is how many NYC cars would there be? Should they be weighted heavier
than the Reading (interchange at Harrisburg)? I would expect the PRR
agents might quickly send empty NYC cars back to interchange points
empty and load New England bound freight into PRR cars.

During WWII the PRR had 9.2% of the North American boxcar fleet, the
NYC 6.1% (1st and 4th, with CP and CN 2nd and 3rd). Pictures suggest
PRR boxcars vastly outnumber NYC box cars on PRR rails, and in fact
some of the midwestern roads, with boxcars fleets significantly less
than half the size of NYC's, are much more prevelant. So how many NYC
box cars should I have? I think I have to have... one? ;-)
Dave,

If you've read my article in TKM on the PRR fleet ;^) you know that the PRR averaged around 50% home road, but that includes about 75% home road hoppers, 50% home road gons and 25% (estimated) home road boxcars. Those numbers also reflect cars stored or awaiting repairs, so the actual number in trains is slightly less.

For the rest of your boxcar fleet, the NYC cars should be roughly 6% of your total fleet. Thus if you have 100 non-PRR boxcars, six should be NYC. Of those cars, a substantial portion should be the USRA steel boxcar (Westerfield, and styrene?(someday).


Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0


Re: Freight car distribution

Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
 

I never had the pleasure of meeting Tim, but it's patently obvious
that his work was very thorough. What is reasonably typical, on the
average? He's probably closer than any of us ever will be. And it's
easy enough to reconcile it with the Jan., 1953 ORER reprint. In
fact, I'm going to use his work to help me understand freight car
distribution.

To say that his work is ignored? Not by me. I appreciate your
referencing it.

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

Steve Lucas wrote:
I'd like to say that there is a method that works for every time
and
location, but the fact is that with two million cars in the North
American rail system, just about any combination of railroads'
cars
are possible at a specific time and location.
I'm glad Tim Gilbert isn't with us any longer, to see his
work
ignored. The issue is not, and has not been, what is POSSIBLE. The
issue is, what is reasonably typical, on the average. Tim's work
addressed that in considerable detail, and I for one found it
persuasive.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Freight car distribution

Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
 

Tony--

You are very correct about the tax implications for Canadian roads
when their equipment (locos and cars) were used in the US for a
longer time than necessary. CN, CP, and BC Rail all had cars built
in the US after the timeframe of STMFC to try to deal with this.

But the Canadian roads had the same problems that the US roads did in
getting their cars back. And probably paid a lot of tax and duty
because of it. Not sure about freight cars, but certin CN passenger
cars were noted as having "duty paid" on them for international use.

Maybe I'm missing something, but under Car Service rules, could empty
cars not be loaded "in the direction of their home road"? If so,
this would have been a licence to do practically what the railroad
wanted to with an empty car. And would explain a lot of anamolies.

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
wrote:

Steve Lucas wrote:
Tax laws?? The CPR did purchase PS-1 boxcars from Pullman-
Standard
for this very reason. Yet, those tax and customs laws did not
prevent
US roads from keeping Canadian cars for their own use, simply
paying
the demurrage on them.
This is not an area of my own expertise, but we have been
told by
several people on this list in the past, that Canadian cars could
only
move in the U.S. to destinations to unload, then return empty, or
else
the Canadian owner would have to pay U.S. taxes on the cars if they
remained in use in the U.S. (if I'm remembering the story
correctly).
So yes, Canadian cars brought newsprint to Los Angeles, for
example,
but went straight back. I don't know about Canadian rules regarding
U.S. cars in Canada.
If this story is wrong, Steve, please enlighten us with the
right
story (or correct my wrong memory of what transpired previously).

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

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