Date   

ADMIN: Rules reminder

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

It has been sometime since I have reminded the members of some of the rules of the STMFC and, yes, people do forget. Anyhow, Note:

"ALL SUBJECTS OTHER THAN THOSE DIRECTLY ASSOCIATED WITH STEAM ERA FREIGHT
CARS ARE PROHIBITED FROM MEMBER MESSAGES. Thus, all
admin, security, or "policing" functions will be conducted only by myself or
my representatives. Warnings about virus activity is strictly
prohibited. Threads or subjects may be terminated only by myself or my
representatives. When threads/subjects are terminated, members are expected
to avoid sending messages associated with such threads/subjects."

Every member has seen these and other rules prior to becoming a member of the group because I send a copy to them for their acceptance before their membership is approved. The purposes of the rules are several and include keeping the group civil and within the bounds of the defined scope of the group. When the group was founded, I made an agreement with the original 30 or so members that the group's scope and objectives would not change. We have managed to achieve this I think. At times, however, due to many reasons, members seem to lose sight of the scope and the rules. Generally I ignore threads that wander out of scope assuming that they will end on their own. Sometimes, OTOH, a thread will be terminated by me or my assistant. In those cases, members are expected to cease sending messages associated with the terminated thread. Members using daily digest may have more difficulty being aware of thread termination but any problem associated with this can easily be avoided simply by staying within scope. Threads are very seldom terminated if within scope.

Continuing to send messages associated with a terminated thread will not result in expulsion from the group. It may result, however, in the member being placed in Moderate Jail which ensures that the member will no longer send such messages. I have no interest in otherwise penalizing any member for such a violation.

So, having said that, I did go down to the Moderate Jail today...the door was rather rusty, had trouble opening it...and, to be frank, the occupants looked a bit the worse for wear caused I guess by a lack of food for about 6 months. Well...I can't remember everything after all. Anyhow, the old occupants...geeez some of these guys have been in jail for several yrs...seemed happy to see the new guys. Not sure why...maybe they want to know how the AAR '32 box car looks. One guy actually asked if Kadee has come out with their PS-1 box car. Geeez. I should look to see when we locked him up...and why.

Mike Brock
STMFC Owner


Re: Diversion Notice Lingo

bnsd45
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Phillips, III, J.A." <whstlpnk@...>
wrote:

All-

I have some NP diversion notices (unfortunately two years beyond the
scope of this list) which read along the lines of NP 12345 divert to
ABC Co Kansas City Sept 6th SCALY.

The Relay Division telegrapher that typed them up nearly 50 years ago
seems to think SCALY stood for something along the lines of "Stop Car
At..." but isn't quite sure and doesn't have any explanation for what
the LY might be. Anyone here know?

John,

Likely Stop Car at Local Yard, an order for the car to be held until it
had a final destination.

David Lehlbach


Re: US Army Air Corp Pics - Major cities

Mark Pierce <marcoperforar@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

Rob Simpson wrote:
Perhaps the aircraft were balloons?
I thought of that too, but you don't usually call them
"aircraft," so as not to confuse them with airplanes.

Tony Thompson
Aircraft is defined as a machine or device, such as an airplane,
helicopter, glider, or dirigible, that is capable of atmospheric
flight. So, aircraft includes balloons too.

Mark


Re: US Army Air Corp Pics - Major cities

Mark Pierce <marcoperforar@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., richtownsend@... wrote:
We're rivet counters here.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon

Thank goodness! I'd expect no less.

Mark


Re: US Army Air Corp Pics - Major cities

Richard Townsend
 

Andy, you're on the wrong list.? We're rivet counters here.? The tie counters are on some other list.


Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon

-----Original Message-----
From: andy.laurent <andy.laurent@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sat, 11 Oct 2008 7:06 am
Subject: [STMFC] Re: US Army Air Corp Pics - Major cities






The aerial photography of the USGS (mentioned earlier as the "pick
location on a map for photos" reply) is one of the best sources of
aerial photos from 1930 through present day. Coverage varies, but I was
able to find photography of the area in Wisconsin I model from 1938,
1951, 1954, 1960, 1975 and into the 80's.

http://edc.usgs.gov/products/aerial.html click on "Photo Reference
Mosaics" or go straight to "Earth Explorer", where you can enter a
location and find all the imagery held by USGS for that location. But
be advised, not all the imagery comes up on that search. Neither the
1951 nor 1954 imagery for my area came up, but after I got in touch
with the staff, they found it for me.

The staff at USGS is very helpful, and can guide you through. Prices
can be steep, but the photography is excellent. I was able to count
individual ties in the track from the 1954 photos.

Regards,
Andy Laurent


Re: Paint Failure on Outside Metal Roofs

Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
 

Getting ordinary paint to stick on galvanized metal is a common problem that has never completely solved, as far as I know. The most common means of minimizing paint failure has been to apply on the clean galvanized surface a preliminary first coat of a weak acid, most commonly ordinary household vinegar. Whether or not the car builders routinely did that, i.e. cleaned the surface AND applied vinegar, I know not (but probably someone does).

Denny

Denny S. Anspach MD
Sacramento


Naperville operating session

Ted Schnepf
 

Hi Everyone,

I will be hosting a operating session Sunday morning at my
layout for those that are interested. For operating spots please
contact me off line. The session runs 9AM to noon on November 2..

In the past year, more scenery and buildings have been completed. In the addition may turnouts have been spiked and track laid.

The layout will also be open to tour on Sunday
morning, no reservations necessary.

ted

Rails Unlimited
Ted Schnepf
railsunl@...
847-697-5353 or 5366
126 Will Scarlet
Elgin, Ill. 60120
http://RailsUnlimited.ribbonrail.com/

Model Railroad Sales and Service with
a personal touch.
Books new and used. HO and O scales.
DCC supplies. O scale urethane cars.
Photos and darkroom services.
Checks, cash (0%) or credit (secure server at web site 4% added).


Re: US Army Air Corp Pics - Major cities

 

--- In STMFC@..., "reubeft" <reubeft@...> wrote:

Reading about the LOC pics, reminded me of either reading or be told
about a pre-WWII project. The then US Army Air Corp was doing aerial
pics of major cities. This was cancelled (?) at the start of WWII.
Does anyone know of or where this collection, if it exist, is?
Reuben Feuge @ Poplarville, ms
Here is the link to Illinois aerial photographs taken of 62 counties
between 1939 and 1941. Chicago and St. Louis are included.
<http://www.isgs.uiuc.edu/nsdihome/webdocs/ilhap/> You will have to
download the "ExpressView Browser Plugin from LizardTech." There is a
link on the link above.

If the link above does not work, search for "Illinois Historical
Aerial Photography 1938-1941" and select the link for Illinois
Clearing House. Here is another link listing map resources for
multiple states. <http://www.library.kent.edu/page/10334>

Hope that this helps.
Jon Habegger


Re: US Army Air Corp Pics - Major cities

Andy Laurent
 

The aerial photography of the USGS (mentioned earlier as the "pick
location on a map for photos" reply) is one of the best sources of
aerial photos from 1930 through present day. Coverage varies, but I was
able to find photography of the area in Wisconsin I model from 1938,
1951, 1954, 1960, 1975 and into the 80's.

http://edc.usgs.gov/products/aerial.html click on "Photo Reference
Mosaics" or go straight to "Earth Explorer", where you can enter a
location and find all the imagery held by USGS for that location. But
be advised, not all the imagery comes up on that search. Neither the
1951 nor 1954 imagery for my area came up, but after I got in touch
with the staff, they found it for me.

The staff at USGS is very helpful, and can guide you through. Prices
can be steep, but the photography is excellent. I was able to count
individual ties in the track from the 1954 photos.

Regards,
Andy Laurent


Re: Paint Failure on Outside Metal Roofs

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Walter M. Clark wrote:
A follow-up: regarding the 1937 AAR house cars, about how long, on average (I'm only asking for a reasonably close guess here <g>) did it take for the paint to begin failing? I'm (eventually) building several Red Caboose 1937 AAR box cars, both corner types, and am modeling November 1941.
Gosh, Walter, it must have varied <g>. But I'd guess that few 1937-design cars were showing much paint failure by 1941 (and remember that not all 1937 designs were BUILT in that year).

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: US Army Air Corp Pics - Major cities

Walter M. Clark
 

But I thought you meant the Reconstruction Finance Corporation,
started under the Herbert Hoover administration as a lame attempt to
do something about the start of the Depression<g>.

Time stopped in November 1941, and I didn't see Hoover talking about
it on television, either<g>
Walter M. Clark
Pullman, Washington, USA

--- In STMFC@..., Bob McCarthy <thesupplycar@...> wrote:

Whoops,

      I meant the New Deal!!!  Sorry about my confusing post.  Glad
everyone got a laugh!
 
      The rest of the data is correct.
 
Bob McCarthy 

--- On Fri, 10/10/08, Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

From: Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] US Army Air Corp Pics - Major cities
To: STMFC@...
Date: Friday, October 10, 2008, 5:57 PM






Bob McCarthy wrote:
. . . the man who developed aircraft based photography/ photomapping
for the Department of Agriculture during Reconstruction. 
If, as I was taught, Reconstruction was the period after the Civil
War, Mr. Ellerbe was awfully farsighted to have invented this, since
airplanes themselves didn't exist yet.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress. com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturep
ress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history




















Re: Paint Failure on Outside Metal Roofs

Walter M. Clark
 

--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

Walter M. Clark wrote:
I haven't been able to find anything about the early 20th century
(Harriman through USRA) and 1937 AAR house car roofs. Did these also
have the same problem?
Certainly the early 20th century galvanized roofs did; there
were repeated articles in Railway Age about it. By 1937, you'd think
paint methods were better, but of course for those later cars we have
photo evidence, and no, those roofs didn't hold paint too great either.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history
Thanks Tony,

A follow-up: regarding the 1937 AAR house cars, about how long, on
average (I'm only asking for a reasonably close guess here <g>) did it
take for the paint to begin failing? I'm (eventually) building
several Red Caboose 1937 AAR box cars, both corner types, and am
modeling November 1941. I know an almost new car would still have
good paint on the roof. How long would it take before signs of
failure would have appeared?

Time stopped in November 1941
Walter M. Clark
Pullman, Washington, USA


ADMIN: Re: Re: US Army Air Corp Pics - Major cities

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Rob Simpson writes:

"Perhaps the aircraft were balloons? People are alway forgetting our
proud balloon heratige....sigh."

They might also be UFO's...which were reported about but not referred to as such back in the 1800's in the US. However, regardless of whether or not the photos were taken by ballon, aircraft or UFO's, unless there is an obvious...to me...association with steam era frt cars, this subject is way out of scope and is now terminated.

Mike Brock
STMFC Owner


Re: Atlas 1932 ARA Boxcar

Steve SANDIFER
 

They also have different doors.
______________
J. Stephen (Steve) Sandifer
mailto:steve.sandifer@...
Home: 12027 Mulholland Drive, Meadows Place, TX 77477, 281-568-9918
Office: Southwest Central Church of Christ, 4011 W. Bellfort, Houston, TX 77025, 713-667-9417

----- Original Message -----
From: Gene Green
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 7:46 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Atlas 1932 ARA Boxcar


I understand from an Atlas rep that additional versions will be done.
So far there are two different ends. Why couldn't they do two
different roofs?
Gene Green
OitwTtoEP

--- In STMFC@..., "mcindoefalls" <mcindoefalls@...> wrote:
>
> --- In STMFC@..., "Jason Kliewer" <jasonkliewer3@> wrote:
> >
> > I doubt you'll see a C&O car due to the radial roof and the WM car
> > would have roof issues as well.
>
> Thanks Jason, I didn't look all that closely at the roster and didn't
> pick up the radial roof on the C&O's cars. The WM's had the Duryea
> underframe, too, although I think the panel roof would be OK. Maybe
> someone like Des Plaines will offer kits for some of the more unusual
> variations, as they did with the C&O/ERIE 1937 boxcars.
>
> Here's a link to the roster:
> http://www.steamfreightcars.com/prototype/frtcars/1932arapdfmain.html
>
> Walt
>


Re: Atlas 1932 ARA Boxcar

Gene Green <bierglaeser@...>
 

I understand from an Atlas rep that additional versions will be done.
So far there are two different ends. Why couldn't they do two
different roofs?
Gene Green
OitwTtoEP

--- In STMFC@..., "mcindoefalls" <mcindoefalls@...> wrote:

--- In STMFC@..., "Jason Kliewer" <jasonkliewer3@> wrote:

I doubt you'll see a C&O car due to the radial roof and the WM car
would have roof issues as well.
Thanks Jason, I didn't look all that closely at the roster and didn't
pick up the radial roof on the C&O's cars. The WM's had the Duryea
underframe, too, although I think the panel roof would be OK. Maybe
someone like Des Plaines will offer kits for some of the more unusual
variations, as they did with the C&O/ERIE 1937 boxcars.

Here's a link to the roster:
http://www.steamfreightcars.com/prototype/frtcars/1932arapdfmain.html

Walt


Last Call for NEFF RPM!

bnpmodeler
 

Greetings once again list, and pardon the cross-posting; I would like
to pass along a final update for the 2008 Northeast Fallen Flags
Railway Prototype Modeling Meet, or NEFF RPM. We are in a final
flurry of preparations and as I mentioned in my last message, this is
shaping up to be a really fun day. So come on down, forget the stock
market and your 401K for a day, and join us for some great
presentations and models.

First, the basics:

Meeting Location and time:
October 11th, 9 AM – 5 PM, at
The LH Taylor Firehouse
7 Maryland Avenue
High Bridge, NJ 08829

Directions:
I-78 West to Exit 17 (or I-78 East to exit 16), to Route 31 North.
Take 31 North through 1 light, turn right just before second light
(and just past the Acura dealership) to Route 513 North/West Main
Street. Take 513 North to Arch Street; just over bridge bear left and
go through tunnel (this is where the High Bridge used to be, now it's
a fill) to Washington Avenue; turn right on Washington Ave, go 3
blocks and you will see the LH Taylor Firehouse in front of you.

Parking:
There is a lot adjacent to the Firehouse that will hold about 20
cars. If that lot is full, then park on either East Main Street or
Maryland Avenue. Do NOT park in the Custom Allopy parking lot (this
is the old Taylor Wharton Foundry complex). Do NOT park on the east
side of Washington Avenue.

Now for the fun parts:

Please bring some models to display! This is one of the main points
of this meet, to show your work and discuss it and see everyone
else's work! We have plenty of tables, and display tables will have
risers to bring them up to a more convenient height for viewing.

In addition to the model display, we have some great activities and
clinics lined up; they include:

Paul Tupaczewski: Analysis of the EL/CNJ operations of pool trains ES-
99/SE-98

Dave Goessling is preparing a self-guided tour of the CNJ and
Industrial history in and around High Bridge, There will be a booklet
including maps, photos and postcard views, descriptive text drawn
from books, anecdotes and of course directions.

Rusty Recordon will bring his "DL&W Piggyback Flatcars, a Very Short
History" presentation; if you've seen Rusty's articles on this
subject in RMC, you'll know you're in for a treat.

David Ramos: Rail Interaction on the West Side of Manhattan,
discussing the NYC, Erie, and LV operations and modeling.

Craig Bisgeier will share his "Evolution of a Layout Design, or No
One Gets It Right The First Time" presentation, sharing his
experiences in building his Housatonic Railroad layout, set in 1892,
a fascinating period layout.

Jim Harr: Modeling the Lackawanna's Delaware River viaduct in HO
scale, using blue foam and a hot-wire cutting machine.

Ralph Heiss will be offering "live weathering" tips for your Steam-
era equipment, a live demonstration using chalks, airbrushes, and
washes.

We have several vendors lined up, including Stella Scale Models,
Shortline Products, and Amesville Shops.

Michaels Pizza of High Bridge is preparing several tasty pasta and
Italian specialty dishes, including Baked Ziti with meat sauce,
Eggplant Parmagiana, Sausage with peppers and Onions, tossed salad
and dinner rolls, and if attendance warrants Michael is on tap to
make up pizzas to order as well.

Admission, including lunch, is $15.00 at the door.

We also have a plethora of door prizes graciously donated by various
vendors.

Visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/neffrpm/ to sign up for the
latest news. Directions to the Firehouse will be posted on the Yahoo!
site, and can be found at this link as well:
http://maps.google.com/maps?
f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=7+maryland+avenue,+08829&sll=37.0625,-
95.677068&sspn=50.51141,78.75&ie=UTF8&z=16&iwloc=addr

We hope to see you tomorrow!

Jim Harr
Ralph Heiss
Dave Goessling
Paul Tupaczewski


Re: US Army Air Corp Pics - Major cities

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Rob Simpson wrote:
Perhaps the aircraft were balloons?
I thought of that too, but you don't usually call them "aircraft," so as not to confuse them with airplanes.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: US Army Air Corp Pics - Major cities

Scott Pitzer
 

I dunno... I coulda sworn FDR talked about this during some of his TV
speeches...
Scott Pitzer

--- In STMFC@..., Bob McCarthy <thesupplycar@...> wrote:

Whoops,

      I meant the New Deal!!!  Sorry about my confusing post.  Glad
everyone got a laugh!
 
      The rest of the data is correct.
 
Bob McCarthy 

--- On Fri, 10/10/08, Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

From: Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] US Army Air Corp Pics - Major cities
To: STMFC@...
Date: Friday, October 10, 2008, 5:57 PM






Bob McCarthy wrote:
. . . the man who developed aircraft based photography/
photomapping
for the Department of Agriculture during Reconstruction. 
If, as I was taught, Reconstruction was the period after the Civil
War, Mr. Ellerbe was awfully farsighted to have invented this,
since
airplanes themselves didn't exist yet.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress. com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturep
ress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history




















Re: B&O Quad Hoppers

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Jace Kahn wrote:
"A few months ago I purchased a PSC import of one (no box, but it
matches the view in the 1940 CBC), so I tweaked the Korean details
and painted it basic black. Then I discovered that CDS didn't offer
a set of B&O hopper lettering, so it probably will be Champ (for
those still following the discussion at this point, perhaps I should
point out we are dealing in O scale here).
<<snip>>
While I can scratch together enough for the original lettering, as-
built, I'd really rather do the capitol-dome/linking 13 states.
Sources?"

Another source of O scale B&O hopper lettering is Greg Komar. He
doesn't have a specific set for Class W-2 quads and the Class W-9
triple set is for the later "B&O" billboard lettering, but some of the
other sets may give you a better start than Champ.
http://www.greatdecals.com/CAT9_11-19-07.PDF


Ben Hom


Re: B&O Quad Hoppers

Ed Hawkins
 

On Oct 10, 2008, at 2:26 PM, Justin Kahn wrote:

I probably have good prototype views of them somewhere, but I'm
darned if I can find them, nor any helpful website.
While I can scratch together enough for the original lettering,
as-built, I'd really rather do the capitol-dome/linking 13 states.
Sources?
Jace,
I published articles about A.R.A. quad hoppers in RP CYC Vol. 5 with an
addendum in Vol. 14.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins

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