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Re: resin versus injection molded
mcindoefalls
--- In STMFC@..., "ed_mines" <ed_mines@...> wrote:
Meaning what? Trying to find enough parts that match? Walt Lankenau |
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Fw: Mineral Service on your Roads
Norman+Laraine Larkin <lono@...>
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From: Norman+Laraine Larkin To: STMFC@... Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 10:30 PM Subject: Re: [STMFC] Mineral Service on your Roads This is an interesting topic, Elden. Although what I'm about to say occurred 1968/1969 on the B&M, there's nothing to say something similar didn't occur in the 40s and 50s elsewhere. There were several major construction projects in the Metropolitan Boston area that required large amounts of gravel. One project, the I-95 extension north of Boston, required some 3.5M cubic yards of gravel alone over a nine month period. The B&M provided 300 70-ton hoppers, but required more. They leased 200 B&LE hoppers (5-year lease); 100 Pennsy hoppers (per diem lease) ; 50 BAR hoppers (per diem lease); and 18 Portland Terminal hoppers. Three 60-car trains and one 48-car train were run per day for the I-95 project, two additional trains were run for the Logan Airport expansion. It was a fascinating operation, but the point is the railroad had to lease cars from other carriers, in this case, five different road names in captive, regularly scheduled mineral service. I wonder how many times this occurred in our time frame. The above information was taken from the Winter 1974-1975 issue of the B&M Bulletin from an article by H. Bentley Crouch. Regards Norm Larkin ----- Original Message ----- From: Gatwood, Elden J SAD To: STMFC@... Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 1:36 PM Subject: RE: [STMFC] Mineral Service on your Roads Folks; I have been doing a bunch more reading on minerals shipped by the railroads, and figure you could have an interest. This may create a more interesting through or set-out operation for you, or even an on-line industrial interchange with your road, if we can figure out what cars were used by what roads, in this service. We have pretty good ideas of what roads shipped coal, and iron ore, but there is a lot that can be done to ID some of the rest, some of which was shipped in open hoppers, others in covered hoppers, and even box cars. Mineral service was a huge amount of the traffic on most roads, even those you wouldn't think of, so I hope we can figure some of this out. Here we go: Aluminum; source area usually overseas (Guinea, Jamaica, Brazil, India); would have entered U.S. ports, most eastern. QUESTIONS: What ports, and shipped by what roads, where destined, how shipped? How much? Ammonium Sulfate; by-product of coking industry; used as soil amendment, white to yellow powder, shipped most often bagged, in box cars. Sources: Coke Industry - Bethlehem Steel, Colorado Fuel & Iron, Crucible Steel, Detroit Steel, Eastern Gas & Fuel, Ford Motor Co., Granite City Steel, Inland Steel, Interlake Iron, International Harvester, Jones & Laughlin, Kaiser Steel, Merritt-Chapman & Scott-Tennessee Products & Chemical, National Steel, Pittsburgh Coke & Chemical, Pittsburgh Steel, Republic Steel, Sharon Steel, U.S. Pipe & Foundry, U.S. Steel (numerous locations), Wheeling Steel, Woodward Iron, Youngstown Sheet & Tube (to start) If you want more details about any of these facilities' production rates or locations, ask! Questions: Where did all this bagged product go first, before it went to local feed & fertilizer distributors? Calcium Carbide: grayish-white mineral used in de-sulphurization of iron. Also used in deoxidization at the ladle, in treatment. QUESTIONS: Sources? Shipped by what roads? Are these the cylindrical tanks we have seen shipped on the NYC and RI in dedicated service rack flats? How much of this was shipped? Chromium: blue-white ore; by 1952, 40% was coming from Turkey, 38% South Africa, some from s. Egypt & Cuba (i.e., 79% import), with small amounts from Montana, California, Oregon, and Alabama. Used in ferrochromium production. Most coming through ports of Philadelphia, Baltimore (others??). Shipped most often in open twin hoppers not filled to volumetric capacity due to weight. Most headed to specialty steel-making facilities (and small industrial chromium coating concerns, but first through where?) QUESTIONS: What other ports, and shipped by what roads? How much? More minerals, later! Any input appreciated. Elden Gatwood |
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flat car loads was New HO scale 70-ton flatcar
On Wed, October 15, 2008 2:52 pm, rockroll50401 wrote:
Here's my dilemma with flat cars.<SNIP> Like I said, a bigger concern than the price of the flat car modelAnd the same is true for nice resin models of military equipment. While you can still get Roco for $10 or so per vehicle, there are a lot more models than that. How about a couple of M18 Hellcats in resin in HO with etched details <ka-ching!> or a resin LCVP for a load <ka-ching!> or resin armoured recovery vehicles... not to mention the time to assemble paint and decal them too <VBG>! Fortunately the resin jeeps for my "16 pack" were less than the Roco jeeps... with Roco, the load would have been $150!! Regards Bruce Bruce Smith Auburn, AL |
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Re: resin versus injection molded
Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Bill Schneider, who should know, wrote:
A sweeping statement like this is bound to cause some discussion on the list, but.. I'd venture to say that a LOT depends on WHO's resin and/or injected kits your comparing! There are good, bad and ugly in BOTH camps... :>)Hear, hear. Many on this list could make up lists of the GB&U for both resin and styrene off the top of their heads. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history |
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Re: IRC 1958 cuft hoppers
Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Eric Mumper wrote:
Just went over to the Intermountain website and it looks like the new 1958 cuft covered hoppers are available and the site has pictures of actual models - not just drawings. Has anyone seen these and can anyone comment on their accuracy and quality of assembly? Always want to ask this since first runs can have "issues".I saw a couple of complete models at the SP Society convention last month. They looked excellent, with fine grab iron detail like the Kadee PS-2 models. Of course that's not a measure of production. Accuracy, as Tim O'Connor pointed out a few days ago, depends on your prototype: does it have double latch "fingers" or single? double latch bars on each side or single? is the roof smooth, riveted or ribbed? As for "now" I don't think you're right. Frank Angstead of Intermountain said they HOPED they would have the first batch in by Christmas. But if anyone knows more, please enlighten us. Currently there are about 150 of the Bowser/Kato/E&B Valley cars moving silica sand around my layout and an upgrade would be nice.They will be an immense upgrade over E&B Valley, and still a distinct upgrade over Bowser and Kato--far better grab irons. I haven't yet seen a Bowser paint job that had accurate lettering, so I have a low opinion of those cars and have built Katos instead. But I think the IM cars will be a serious piece of progress. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history |
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Re: Piedmont & Northern Caboose
Eric Hiser <ehiser@...>
Bob:
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That would be fabulous. My wife's father is a railfan for the Piedmont & Northern and my wife has asked me to build him an O scale caboose of his favorite line to put on the mantle of his fire place. Hence, I am trying to get a good photo so I can find a close caboose and then build the requested model, helping me with both wife and father-in-law! Your help would be deeply, deeply appreciated! I model HO an extension of the Santa Fe's Clarkdale branch circa 1926, but am happy to learn more about the P&N and the railroads of the SE. Eric Hiser Phoenix, AZ ehiser@...
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From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Bob McCarthy Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 9:05 PM To: STMFC@... Subject: Re: [STMFC] Piedmont & Northern Caboose Eric, How about we go to Greenwood and get some pictures for you. What else do you need. We are in Columbia, SC and not that far from Greenwood. Luckily I am married to a woman who has riddden in steam engine cabs as a child. She likes and understand railroads. Want a show of hands for those married guys who have a wife who will say while having dinner, "You know we need to start a communter line from Newberry, SC to Columbia, SC." I submit I am very lucky, she even has relatives, Uncle Shelby Lowe, who wrote the book on Southern steam, a Grandfather E.E. Lowe who was the Senior Conductor on The Southern Cresent when he retired, with a Great Grandfather Alonzo Lowe who was an engineer for a line that the Southern absorbed. So she will say 'road trip' if you send me the website of the museum. We will get everything we can for you. Are you in HO? Bob McCarthy Modeling in Scale S the Mighty Central of Georgia in the 1950's --- On Wed, 10/15/08, Eric Hiser <ehiser@...> wrote: From: Eric Hiser <ehiser@...> Subject: [STMFC] Piedmont & Northern Caboose To: STMFC@... Date: Wednesday, October 15, 2008, 3:43 AM I am looking for a photograph of a Piedmont & Northern Caboose, preferably during the early part of the 20th Century. I have checked the P&N book, but the photo in it is not very helpful. I know that there is a preserved caboose at the Railroad Historical Center in Greenwood, SC, but they do not have a photo of any of the equipment on the webpage. Does anyone have a photo that they could share or a reference to where one may be? It would be appreciated! Eric Hiser Phoenix, AZ ehiser@... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links |
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Branchline Kit No.1504 Detroit, Toledo & Ironton 8' door boxcar
WaltGCox@...
I just received one of these kits, car # 14493 which arrived with black ends
and a silver diagonal panel roof. The Branchline illustration seems to indicate a black roof as do the few photos I have seen of D,T&I boxcars. I model CN (in 1959) and am not all that familiar with D,T&I, it just seemed like an interesting off line car. Could anyone more familiar with the road comment on the silver roof? TIA Walt **************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002) |
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Re: alternate standard twin offset hopper
Paul Lyons
Ed Mines said:
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His PFE reefers are nice and judging by advertising I doubt he's sold a great many of them, even with the assembled cars from Intermountain. Ed, Just out of curiousity, what do you think in numbers is not "a great many"? I think the answer?will surprise you. Paul Lyons Laguna Niguel, CA
-----Original Message-----
From: ed_mines <ed_mines@...> To: STMFC@... Sent: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 10:59 am Subject: [STMFC] alternate standard twin offset hopper --- In STMFC@..., "Jim & Lisa Hayes" <jimandlisa97225@...> wrote: Five years ago Sunshine did a mini-kit for this car with very thinside castings to be overlaid over a sanded down Atlas hopper.I wonder if Terry Wegman could cut an injection molded overlay with the parts being sold on a subscription basis (modelers order and pay for the parts before the work is done). I'm assuming Terry doesn't have much of a cash outlay, doing the work after hours on his employer's equipment. His PFE reefers are nice and judging by advertising I doubt he's sold a great many of them, even with the assembled cars from Intermountain. Ed |
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Re: alternate standard twin offset hopper?
Bill Darnaby
I have built several of the Sunshine conversions and found the thin overlay easy to use. I wicked ACC between the overlay and body and have used both Athearn and Atlas twins. The hard part is realizing that, after this effort, one feels compelled to replace grabs, etc, etc...
Bill Darnaby |
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Re: resin versus injection molded
Bill Schneider <branchline@...>
Ed,
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A sweeping statement like this is bound to cause some discussion on the list, but.. I'd venture to say that a LOT depends on WHO's resin and/or injected kits your comparing! There are good, bad and ugly in BOTH camps... :>) Bill Schneider
----- Original Message -----
From: ed_mines To: STMFC@... Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 2:58 PM Subject: [STMFC] resin versus injection molded Every time I bought an injection molded car instead of a resin car I've been disappointed. The detail on the resin car is much crisper and of course more accurate. I don't mind paying more but I do dislike having to buy more than one car to get a kit. Ed |
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IRC 1958 cuft hoppers
Eric Mumper <ericmumper@...>
Group,
Just went over to the Intermountain website and it looks like the new 1958 cuft covered hoppers are available and the site has pictures of actual models - not just drawings. Has anyone seen these and can anyone comment on their accuracy and quality of assembly? Always want to ask this since first runs can have "issues". These are going to be a major wallet cleanser. Currently there are about 150 of the Bowser/Kato/E&B Valley cars moving silica sand around my layout and an upgrade would be nice. Thanks for any insight. Eric Mumper http://www.foxriverbranch.com |
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Re: New HO scale 70-ton flatcar
rockroll50401 <cepropst@...>
Here's my dilemma with flat cars.
I'm with Gene Green. We model the M&StL. Gene has shared the "Landermesser Lists" with me/others. Although it can be argued the lists aren't an accurate cross section of traffic on the railroad, I think they're pretty close and beside they're about all we have. Out of almost 1400 entries only about 150 are FM type flat cars. About a third of those were home road cars. As a disciplined prototype modeler I try to buy cars off `the list' that carried lading pertinent to the industries I model. And keeping in mind that one in three needs to be home road. Life-Like makes a nice model lettered for the home road and Sunshine will eventually have the other style 50' home road flat. I have a Pennsy Bowser F something or other model (with pipe load) lettered for the same series that is on `the list' and a Sunshine CNW car (tractors) numbered from `the list'. But, that's where I end with the discipline thing. I have a CB&Q car (Bulldozer in gates) that Martin gave away at his Tupperware party. I have the Red Caboose SP fter (plows and seeders), just for variety. I will buy the IM car, again for variety. So, I can add another home road car. That will be about all the flats I can afford to put loads on. Like I said, a bigger concern than the price of the flat car model is the price of what to put on them as a load. Priced any period model farm machinery lately? It is conceivable to wrap nearly $100 in the load. That's beyond practical! Clark Propst |
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Re: Mineral Service on your Roads
There was a large aluminum refining plant located in Montana on
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the GN -- featured in a 1950's GN annual report. The alumina that was processed in Vancouver WA didn't need to travel by rail -- it came in directly off ocean vessels. You're right that cheap hydro power is the key factor. Tim O'
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> What was imported was bauxite, the mineral from which aluminum |
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Re: Mineral Service on your Roads
Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Cyril Durrenberger wrote:
I think Alcoa at one time mined bauxite near Bauzite, Arkansas and IThere was never a smelter at Bauxite, only an ore beneficiation plant to prepare ore for shipment to alumina plants. Anthony Thompson Dept. of Materials Science & Engineering University of California, Berkeley thompsonmarytony@... |
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Re: Mineral Service on your Roads
Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Cyril Durrenberger wrote:
Buaxite is imported to Point Comfort, Texas where it is "refined" toOriginally aluminum metal was produced at Point Comfort with cheap natural gas providing the power. As the price of gas increased, the change to Rockdale was made. I think Alcoa at one time mined bauxite near Bauzite, Arkansas and IThe ore at Bauxite, Arkansas was indeed not of high grade, but the deposit was exhausted before closure. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history |
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Re: Mineral Service on your Roads
Cyril Durrenberger
"What was imported was bauxite, the mineral from which aluminum
is refined, and to a lesser extent, alumina, which is aluminum oxide refined from bauxite and the next step to aluminum metal. All you need to do to answer the "where" question is look at a list of aluminum refining plants, such as Alcoa's plants at Alcoa, Tennessee, Point Comfort, Texas, Massena, New York, or Vancouver, Washington (note access to hydroelectric power at most of these)." Buaxite is imported to Point Comfort, Texas where it is "refined" to alumina and then shipped in covered hoppers to the Alcoa smelter in Rockdale, Texas. At Rockdale they get their power from locally mined lignite. Alcoa has announced that they will close the smelter soon. I think Alcoa at one time mined bauxite near Bauzite, Arkansas and I think they had a smelter there too. As I recall the ore was poor grade and they closed the plant long ago. Cyril Durrenberger [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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Re: Mineral Service on your Roads
Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Gatwood, Elden wrote:
Tony, aside from uses of processed aluminum, did anyone use raw bauxite ore in any applications?I'm not aware of any. It is interesting that these special converted flat cars, and their even more unusual containers, seem to be generally recognized as "calcium carbide" cars, and that the powdered form warranted that type of sealed, small-mouthedBoth calcium carbide and "burnt lime" are VERY hygroscopic and vigorously absorb and react with water to form a new (and usually undesirable) compound. It is essential that they be shipped in isolation from ambient air. I don't know, but see no reason it can't be shipped in hoppers--it's actually pretty corrosion resistant. Before the 1950s, gondolas would also be candidates. But as the stuff is pretty dense, neither car type could be loaded very full.I believe most imported chromium is already in ferrochrome form . . .<Have you ever heard of any reference as to how this was shipped? Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history |
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Re: Mineral Service on your Roads
Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Tony;
Thank you very much for the detailed response! RE: Aluminum; -to answer the "where" question is look at a list ofaluminum refining plants, such as Alcoa's plants at Alcoa, Tennessee, Point Comfort, Texas, Massena, New York, or Vancouver, Washington (note access to hydroelectric power at most of these). Tony, aside from uses of processed aluminum, did anyone use raw bauxite ore in any applications? RE: Calcium Carbide: grayish-white mineral used in de-sulphurization ofTim O'Connor commented: I think Union Carbide in WV (on NYC?) produced it, among others. There The SP cars were built specifically for shipping the carbide TOthe Portland, Oregon plant of Linde Air Products. I don't know where it originated. It is interesting that these special converted flat cars, and their even more unusual containers, seem to be generally recognized as "calcium carbide" cars, and that the powdered form warranted that type of sealed, small-mouthed container. The use of "bulk" containers like the Youngstown container, seems to also have been often used in the dedicated service of shipping powdered Dolomite, or "burnt" lime. The reactive properties, and measured usage, of that commodity seem also to have determined its special shipping treatment. Both would seem to be especially needed cars on a layout delivering raw materials to a steel-maker, or foundry. Chromium: blue-white ore . . . Used in ferrochromium production . .As the chromium ore is not very useful until reduced to chromium oxide (whereupon it can be used in refractory brick making) or ferrochrome (used in steel making), the ore certainly did not go either to steel companies or platers. I believe most imported chromium is already in ferrochrome form, much of it made in South Africa. The ferrochrome, which is around 50 percent chromium, is produced directly from ore, ordinarily in electric furnaces, and the ore itself contains the iron, though some smelters beneficiate the ore with scrap steel in the furnace. If the ferrochrome is low in carbon, it can be used to charge directly into steel furnaces, particularly for stainless steel. Have you ever heard of any reference as to how this was shipped? Again, thanks so much for the detailed responses! Elden Gatwood _,_._,___ |
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resin versus injection molded
ed_mines
Every time I bought an injection molded car instead of a resin car I've
been disappointed. The detail on the resin car is much crisper and of course more accurate. I don't mind paying more but I do dislike having to buy more than one car to get a kit. Ed |
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Re: New HO scale 70-ton flatcar
Jim & Lisa Hayes <jimandlisa97225@...>
Chris, I like it when a manufacturer plans a weight into the design of a
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flatcar kit but I don't get concerned if it's not. Light weight flatcars are the ones that get loads with the weight concealed within the load. Jim Hayes Portland Oregon
-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of leakinmywaders Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 9:57 PM To: STMFC@... Subject: [STMFC] Re: New HO scale 70-ton flatcar Jim: Hi, do you have a plan for weighting ther Protowest flats? The drawback to the kit is the lack of provision for a weight sandwich between the deck and frame. I guess it'll have to be rectangles of lead sheet fitted into the underframe spaces. Chris Frissell Polson, MT |
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