Date   

Re: WWII military truck loads

Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

Crap.

OK, hit the link, then the "Search Digitized Material" button,

then enter

816
894
892
891

respectively in the title box on the lower left and click on the blue submit
search button. When your results come up click on the blue underlined title
and it will begin downloading a .pdf.

KL

----- Original Message -----
From: Kurt Laughlin
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 9:22 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] WWII military truck loads


The links got broken. What you'll have to do is go here:

http://ahecwebdds.carlisle.army.mil/awapps/main.jsp?flag=collection&qt=64&cl=collection4_lib&smd=1

and enter

816
894
892
891

respectively in the title box on the lower left and click on the blue submit
search button. When your results come up click on the blue underlined title
and it will begin downloading a .pdf.

KL

----- Original Message -----
From: Kurt Laughlin
I found the U-7144T TM here:

http://ahecwebdds.carlisle.army.mil/awapps/main.jsp?flag=browse&smd=1&awdid=11

It includes very detailed blocking and tie-down instructions for rail
shipment (next to last chapter).

There was also this 11-ton two wheel van trailer:

http://ahecwebdds.carlisle.army.mil/awapps/main.jsp?flag=browse&smd=1&awdid=53

and this 10-ton stake trailer and dolly:

http://ahecwebdds.carlisle.army.mil/awapps/main.jsp?flag=browse&smd=1&awdid=134

and this 6-ton tanker:

http://ahecwebdds.carlisle.army.mil/awapps/main.jsp?flag=browse&smd=1&awdid=66

(all with detailed shipping instructions)

I found one TM for a truck/semi-trailer combination and the trailer was
shipped separate from the tractor. One thing that it did make me think
about was that length of the combination may have prevented shipment while
hitched, even if otherwise allowed.

P.S. The site also has manuals for railway artillery. Are they STMFC? :-)

KL


Re: WWII military truck loads

Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

The links got broken. What you'll have to do is go here:

http://ahecwebdds.carlisle.army.mil/awapps/main.jsp?flag=collection&qt=64&cl=collection4_lib&smd=1

and enter

816
894
892
891

respectively in the title box on the lower left and click on the blue submit search button. When your results come up click on the blue underlined title and it will begin downloading a .pdf.

KL

----- Original Message -----
From: Kurt Laughlin
I found the U-7144T TM here:

http://ahecwebdds.carlisle.army.mil/awapps/main.jsp?flag=browse&smd=1&awdid=11

It includes very detailed blocking and tie-down instructions for rail
shipment (next to last chapter).

There was also this 11-ton two wheel van trailer:

http://ahecwebdds.carlisle.army.mil/awapps/main.jsp?flag=browse&smd=1&awdid=53

and this 10-ton stake trailer and dolly:

http://ahecwebdds.carlisle.army.mil/awapps/main.jsp?flag=browse&smd=1&awdid=134

and this 6-ton tanker:

http://ahecwebdds.carlisle.army.mil/awapps/main.jsp?flag=browse&smd=1&awdid=66

(all with detailed shipping instructions)

I found one TM for a truck/semi-trailer combination and the trailer was
shipped separate from the tractor. One thing that it did make me think
about was that length of the combination may have prevented shipment while
hitched, even if otherwise allowed.

P.S. The site also has manuals for railway artillery. Are they STMFC? :-)

KL


Re: grab irons

Schuyler Larrabee
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave D

I think we need to get more people e-mailing BLMA about the need for HO products and maybe they'll
start making
more.
Dave, emails are worth . . . . well . . . . nothing.

SALES, however, have a tendency to convince . . .

SGL


Re: WWII military truck loads

Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

I found the U-7144T TM here:

http://ahecwebdds.carlisle.army.mil/awapps/main.jsp?flag=browse&smd=1&awdid=11

It includes very detailed blocking and tie-down instructions for rail shipment (next to last chapter).

There was also this 11-ton two wheel van trailer:

http://ahecwebdds.carlisle.army.mil/awapps/main.jsp?flag=browse&smd=1&awdid=53

and this 10-ton stake trailer and dolly:

http://ahecwebdds.carlisle.army.mil/awapps/main.jsp?flag=browse&smd=1&awdid=134

and this 6-ton tanker:

http://ahecwebdds.carlisle.army.mil/awapps/main.jsp?flag=browse&smd=1&awdid=66

(all with detailed shipping instructions)

I found one TM for a truck/semi-trailer combination and the trailer was shipped separate from the tractor. One thing that it did make me think about was that length of the combination may have prevented shipment while hitched, even if otherwise allowed.

P.S. The site also has manuals for railway artillery. Are they STMFC? :-)

KL

----- Original Message -----
From: Bruce Smith

Folks,

I'm working on several new WWII era military loads and recently found
models of the Autocar 7144T tractor which when coupled to one of
several different Roco trailers make excellent military tractor
trailer combos. My question is how would these be carried by rail?
Would the tractors and trailers be shipped together or separately,
and if together, would the trailer be on or off the tractor's 5th wheel?


Re: Erie Horiz Brace Hopper

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Bob Karig <karig@...> wrote:
"The "Z" brace version (Ben's photo) was built by the Standard Steel
Car Company."

To give credit where credit is due, the photo link was provided by
Schuyler Larrabee.


Ben Hom


Re: Erie Horiz Brace Hopper

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Chuck Yungkurth wrote:
"Don't take that drawing I did of the Erie car in RMC very seriously.
That was 48 years ago and the first proto drawing I ever had published!"

Chuck, thanks for being honest. Wish others would adopt the same
policy, including a certain draftsman for a defunct magazine in the
Pacific Northwest.


"Since then standards for doing such drawings have gone up tremendously
and now it is "if you can't do it right don't do it"."

Unfortunately, we've learned the hard way that manufacturers take these
drawings as gospel, much to both our and their regret.


Ben Hom


Re: NE prototype modelers meet

Aley, Jeff A
 

Credit where credit is due:



We (Prototype Rails) got this idea from the Sunshine Models
Prototype Modeling Seminar in Naperville, IL.



Regards,



-Jeff Aley

Clinic Chairman

Prototype Rails 2009: Cocoa Beach, FL



________________________________

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
Mike Brock
Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 7:57 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: NE prototype modelers meet



Dave Owens writes:

"Our model room is a gathering place -- people come in, sit down, shoot
the breeze, etc. Raising the tables would hamper that.

Otherwise, it's a fine idea. They do it that way at the Philadelphia
proto
meet."

This last Jan was the first time we raised the tables which we did for
model
displays. We did not for manufacturers or dealers. It worked out quite
well.
No complaints that I'm aware of.

Mike Brock


Re: Etchings - brass vs. stainless

deltamodels@...
 

rotary cut off disk to clean them up. dremel maks a nice nap on set using a mandrel.

these disk are reinforced and will not brake as with others. Used one for six months.

Bill B

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim & Lisa Hayes <jimandlisa97225@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 4:07 pm
Subject: [STMFC] Etchings - brass vs. stainless






Several of my kits including photo etchings. I find brass etching OK to work
with but stainless etchings are much more difficult for me. I finally found
a tool to trim them from their frets, the Xuron 440 shear, but filing down
the remaining sharp little nubbins is hard. It's a lot of work with my
files. What do others use?

And I finally found a reasonably priced tool to hold and bend etchings. It's
the Mini Hold and Fold from http://thesmallshop.com/index.php I looked at
the Etchmate but it seemed too expensive and too bulky for my purposes. The
2" Mini Hold and Fold is just large enough to hold etched ladders for
bending and small enough to hold in your hand.

And finally I want to comment that etchings should be for flat, not round
things. Making flat grabs, brake rods, etc. is a waste.

Does anyone else have comments they'd care to add about their experiences
with photo etchings?

And finally the usual disclaimer. I have no connection blah, blah, blah.

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon


Re: WWII miliraty truck loads

Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

I'd be surprised if a semi-trailer was shipped hitched. A semi-trailer and dolly, yes, but not a tractor and semi-trailer.

I'll look to see if I can find a TM with shipping illustrations.

KL

----- Original Message -----
From: Bruce Smith

I'm working on several new WWII era military loads and recently found
models of the Autocar 7144T tractor which when coupled to one of
several different Roco trailers make excellent military tractor
trailer combos. My question is how would these be carried by rail?
Would the tractors and trailers be shipped together or separately,
and if together, would the trailer be on or off the tractor's 5th wheel?


Re: Repainting Prototype STMFCs, Three Questions

Aley, Jeff A
 

FWIW, some of my friends like to go to nearby Roseville, CA where there
are scrap yards with old freight cars. They recover the hardwood from
the floors and use them for fine woodworknig projects.



Regards,



-Jeff Aley





________________________________

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 8:27 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Repainting Prototype STMFCs, Three Questions



All;

I have a piece of that very same floorboard, that I am doing paint tests
on,
and it is indeed quite smooth on its top surface; like highly finished
wood.
Except for the edges (which are slightly rounded), it looks like the
wood one
used to use in interior finishing (like flooring in a house or
business), and
perhaps that was the way wood once did look even in rough uses. We tend
to
forget what lousy wood we get here now days!


Re: Color Matching for Freight Cars

Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

Someone mentioned how military modelers went through this decades ago. Unfortunately it still goes on. The participants in the controversy generally fall into two groups:

1. Those that understand that real things have variations and exact modeling is impossible, but believe that variations have a rational basis and typically will be centered about some defined point representing the original, intended, condition. Determining where that center lies will help make things more realistic, which is a desirable and enjoyable goal of modeling.

2. Those that understand that real things have variations and exact modeling is impossible, and believe that attempts to quantify or qualify the objects being modeled are at best wrong-headed wastes of time and at worst attempts to create heavier clubs for which to beat people into conformance and taller pulpits for "experts" to stand behind when judging them.

I look at it this way: People want to scratchbuild a tank because there is no available kit. Some say that in photos the hull looks to be 104 inches wide. Some say there are published drawings that put it at 110. Others say you can't be exact because each tank varied through the accumulation of manufacturing tolerances so both could be right. Some say it's stupid to even try to get closer than +/- a foot because their dad worked at a tank plant and he told them that they never followed procedures or instructions and just welded whatever was handy to get things out the door. I say that there's one of these tanks in a museum, one at a VFW nearby, and one owned by a guy in Ohio. I also measured all three with the same tape measure and got hull widths of 105-1/16, 105-1/8, and 105-1/32 inches.

Wouldn't it just make sense to build the model with a hull 105-1/16 wide?

KL

----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Brock

"Again, you are confusing the ultimate modeling problem with the
problem of archiving the various railroad paints. If we don't do
something to archive the ORIGINAL colors, though, you are right about
"solving" the problem: there won't be any standard, so you won't even
have to "get close," just use a bottle of BCR, weather, and you're
done.
To me, that falls a bit short of "prototype modeling." "

Ohhhh noooo. Not again. Oh well...the subject IS about frt cars after all so
it isn't out of scope...yet.

I would say that I agree with Tony's first statement..."Again, you are
confusing the ultimate modeling problem with the
problem of archiving the various railroad paints."

It would certainly seem useful from a historian's perspective to develop
some kind of archive of various RR paints.

I don't think I agree with the next: "If we don't do something to archive
the ORIGINAL colors, though, you are right about "solving" the problem:
there won't be any standard, so you won't even
have to "get close," just use a bottle of BCR, weather, and you're
done." Well, I don't think it's that simple. While photos can certainly be
misleading, photos of different cars in the SAME photo can give us a
comparison of the colors of cars to each other. Hence, I can tell that UP's
Oxide Red is more red than SP's box car color. How much it differs depends
on many factors and once you begin to deal with the many
scale/fade/weathering/lighting factors, all you can do anyhow is get in the
ball park and its a big one.

It's like Greg says: "I am of the mind of Richard Hendrickson and I believe
you get it close, weather it, and move on..."

It's sorta like using a telescope from, say, downtown NYC to study
astronomical subjects. There's so much light and other polution that you
can't really be sure what you're seeing.


Re: Steam era Bulk oil depot questions including carloads for construction

Aley, Jeff A
 

Gordon,



I have some photos in a brochure published by the Columbian
Steel Tank Co. of Kansas City, MO. They made "Tanks for the World!" at
that facility, including some that are appropriate for local oil
dealers.



The brochure documents the flood of 1951 that inundated
Kansas City, including Columbian. As I recall, there are photos of
finished tanks that had been strapped to flatcars that subsequently
floated away during the flood.



Send me a note off-list to remind me to scan a few photos
for you.



Regards,



-Jeff Aley







(DELIVERY OF MATERIALS TO SITE QUESTIONS)
How did the tanks get manufactured?
On site?
Shipped in pieces
Shipped as completed units
My guess is that the railroads brought whatever to the sites so we
have some set limitations. (The site I'm researching was on "the other
side" of the tunnel near Dillsboro which had size restrictions.


Re: Erie Horiz Brace Hopper

Bob Karig <karig@...>
 

As already noted, there were two versions of that hopper. The "Z" brace version (Ben's photo) was built by the Standard Steel Car Company. The pressed-steel horizontal braced version, the drawings for which are in the CBD, was built by the Pressed Steel Car Company.

Bob Karig


Re: How about creating a model prototype database?

Ed Walters <eddie_walters@...>
 

That sounds to me like something that would work quite well as
a "Wiki" format, as it allows people to collaboratively change it,
rather than having a central administrator. Of course, that would
require someone to host it on a website. MediaWiki - the software
behind Wikipedia - is freely available at www.mediawiki.org

Ed
--- In STMFC@..., "Mike Brock" <brockm@...> wrote:

From: Miles Callan <mileswestern@...>

It has probably been done before, if it has, PLEASE be kind enough
to
link me to it, but I think this may be a valuble resource.

We've touched on these topics before, most recently the legnthy
discussion of the prototypes Accurail looked to to build their
models.

The most crucial part is that it should be in ONE FILE, ONE
WEBSITE, or
ONE easily accessible and free location. It can only benefit our
modeling. I get a lot of inquiries such as "Bachmann 2-8-0
prototype"
or "Athearn Widevision Caboose prototype" and would like to see it
all
in one location.

A list of STMFC models produced past and present, starting with the
large manufacturers, like Athearn, Accurail, Atlas, etc. and
covering:

1. The Actual car the model was based on, or if it was generalized,
what car comes closest to the dimensions or unique details present
in
the model.

2. What railroads operated it from what year to what year and what
numbers/ paintschemes it held in those times.

3. Problems, Inaccuracies, or something necessary to know about the
model and how to improve or fix it to increase accuracy. (such as
adding wire grabs to cast-on grab iron models)

4. Anything that I haven't touched upon, something you'd like to
add?


Re: Color Matching for Freight Cars

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Tony Thompson writes:

"Again, you are confusing the ultimate modeling problem with the
problem of archiving the various railroad paints. If we don't do
something to archive the ORIGINAL colors, though, you are right about
"solving" the problem: there won't be any standard, so you won't even
have to "get close," just use a bottle of BCR, weather, and you're
done.
To me, that falls a bit short of "prototype modeling." "

Ohhhh noooo. Not again. Oh well...the subject IS about frt cars after all so it isn't out of scope...yet.

I would say that I agree with Tony's first statement..."Again, you are confusing the ultimate modeling problem with the
problem of archiving the various railroad paints."

It would certainly seem useful from a historian's perspective to develop some kind of archive of various RR paints.

I don't think I agree with the next: "If we don't do something to archive the ORIGINAL colors, though, you are right about "solving" the problem: there won't be any standard, so you won't even
have to "get close," just use a bottle of BCR, weather, and you're
done." Well, I don't think it's that simple. While photos can certainly be misleading, photos of different cars in the SAME photo can give us a comparison of the colors of cars to each other. Hence, I can tell that UP's Oxide Red is more red than SP's box car color. How much it differs depends on many factors and once you begin to deal with the many scale/fade/weathering/lighting factors, all you can do anyhow is get in the ball park and its a big one.

It's like Greg says: "I am of the mind of Richard Hendrickson and I believe you get it close, weather it, and move on..."

It's sorta like using a telescope from, say, downtown NYC to study astronomical subjects. There's so much light and other polution that you can't really be sure what you're seeing.

Mike Brock


Etchings - brass vs. stainless

Jim & Lisa Hayes <jimandlisa97225@...>
 

Several of my kits including photo etchings. I find brass etching OK to work
with but stainless etchings are much more difficult for me. I finally found
a tool to trim them from their frets, the Xuron 440 shear, but filing down
the remaining sharp little nubbins is hard. It's a lot of work with my
files. What do others use?

And I finally found a reasonably priced tool to hold and bend etchings. It's
the Mini Hold and Fold from http://thesmallshop.com/index.php I looked at
the Etchmate but it seemed too expensive and too bulky for my purposes. The
2" Mini Hold and Fold is just large enough to hold etched ladders for
bending and small enough to hold in your hand.

And finally I want to comment that etchings should be for flat, not round
things. Making flat grabs, brake rods, etc. is a waste.

Does anyone else have comments they'd care to add about their experiences
with photo etchings?

And finally the usual disclaimer. I have no connection blah, blah, blah.

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon


Erie Horiz Brace Hopper

drgwrail
 

Don't take that drawing I did of the Erie car in RMC very seriously.

That was 48 years ago and the first proto drawing I ever had published!

Since then standards for doing such drawings have gone up tremendously
and now it is "if you can't do it right don't do it".

I would recommend using the drawing the CBC as reference.

Chuck Yungkurth
Boulder CO


Re: WWII miliraty truck loads

John Hile <john66h@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:

I'm working on several new WWII era military loads and recently found
models of the Autocar 7144T tractor which when coupled to one of
several different Roco trailers make excellent military tractor
trailer combos. My question is how would these be carried by rail?
Would the tractors and trailers be shipped together or separately,
and if together, would the trailer be on or off the tractor's 5th wheel?







Bruce,

FWIW, I can tell you there are a couple of loading diagrams for
military van-type trailers in the AAR loading rules Special Supplement
No. 2 -- "Rules Governing The Loading Of Standard Military Vehicles
And Major Calibre Guns Not Transported In Complete Trains, Nor
Accompanied By And Under Direct Supervision Of Department Of Defense
Personnel" issued June 1, 1944, revised January 1951. None of them
are shown loaded with tractors attached. One diagram is for trailers
with dollies, with their wheels blocked and the dolly tongue secured
to the deck. The other is for trailers without dollies, with wooden
support framing at the fifth-wheel pin as well as wooden blocking at
the rear wheels & axle.

Hope this helps,

John Hile
Blacksburg, VA


How about creating a model prototype database?

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

From: Miles Callan <mileswestern@...>

It has probably been done before, if it has, PLEASE be kind enough to link me to it, but I think this may be a valuble resource.

We've touched on these topics before, most recently the legnthy discussion of the prototypes Accurail looked to to build their models.

The most crucial part is that it should be in ONE FILE, ONE WEBSITE, or ONE easily accessible and free location. It can only benefit our modeling. I get a lot of inquiries such as "Bachmann 2-8-0 prototype" or "Athearn Widevision Caboose prototype" and would like to see it all in one location.

A list of STMFC models produced past and present, starting with the large manufacturers, like Athearn, Accurail, Atlas, etc. and covering:

1. The Actual car the model was based on, or if it was generalized, what car comes closest to the dimensions or unique details present in the model.

2. What railroads operated it from what year to what year and what numbers/ paintschemes it held in those times.

3. Problems, Inaccuracies, or something necessary to know about the model and how to improve or fix it to increase accuracy. (such as adding wire grabs to cast-on grab iron models)

4. Anything that I haven't touched upon, something you'd like to add?


Re: Color Matching for Freight Cars

Charlie Duckworth <trduck@...>
 

When you compare freight car color research and color documentation
in our hobby to the aircraft or militray modelers, we are still back
in the caveman era with reading 'boxcar red'in the painting
instructions. The guys modeling WWII aircraft have volumes (and a
few web sites) of paint chips at their disposal so if you're modeling
a Spitifire in 1940 or a ME-262 in 1945 there's available chips and
even paint pre-mixed by the manufacturers so you are close to getting
it right.

I've modeled freight cars for 30+ year and worked for a class one RR
34 years, car are painted differently and it would be nice to get
away from the BCR descriptions. Yesterday I bought an all color
softcover book on eastern RR's in 1951-54 and there were two B&O
boxcars in a class track. One, a washed-out brown and the one next
to it a bright red. I recall painting ART reefers for years a bright
Floquil 'Reefer Yellow' but one day Ed Hawkins showed me a color chip
from ACF and it was a deep yellow orche shade. I'm now wanting to
build a CoG 40' 1937 boxcar and would live to know the BCR shade they
used in the early 1950's. My decal instructions point to
BCR...

I'd be in favor of another YahooGroup to begin documenting this in
one spot with references to Federal Standard numbers or another
system.

Charlie

124081 - 124100 of 197081