One additional question on my ORER interpretation for these cars. The inside
length is shown as 40'-6" for all the cars in the 1957 and Jan 1059 ORER
entries I notes. are these typos, or was there a wholesale renumbering of
these cars. If the 50' cars were renumbered what was the new series?

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY

Scott I think misread the ORER. My July 1957 entry has 3 distinct entries in
the "Markings and Kind of Cars" column The first is car type, and for the
Wabash cars in question is either "box" or "auto". The second column is for
car construction. For the Wabash cars in question, "Staggered doors, steel
underframe, SS composite body." The third column is for notes.

The way I read the ditto marks for the 47000-47999 (Kit 109.3 Dreadnaught
ends, Steel doors) are still "Staggered doors, steel underframe, SS
composite body."

Please correct me if I am reading this wrong


Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY

Douglas Harding wrote:
"On the MSTL yahoo list
<http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/mstl>
we have been discussing the idenity of a coal hopper shown in a
photo taken at Oskaloosa, Iowa. We need some help. What follows is
the discussion to date (edited for content), leading to our need for
help. Can anyone help clairify the "idenity" of the car in question.
Clark and I will both be at Cocoa Beach where we can chew over this
in person."

Doug/Clark, I'll cover the car in the photo first, then address some
of the misconceptions in discussion thread, as there are many
erroneous assumptions being made by folks who should know better.

<http://www.sjcook.com/trains/mccall/misc/msl0105.jpg>

The car in this photo is definitely NOT a USRA twin hopper. Far too
many enthusiasts focus on that triangular gusset and 7 panels/8 side
stakes and automatically assume "USRA twin". NOT ALL 7 PANEL/8 SIDE
STAKE HOPPERS ARE USRA TWINS! Additional critical spotting features
of the USRA twin are as follows:
- Two channel section end verticals (NOT four as posted in the M&StL
group thread)
- No slope sheet braces
- No heavy end sill
- 1880 cu ft
- 30 ft 6 in IL
- 10 ft 8 in height of top chord above rails

The last two dimensions are important, as they help visually
differentiate these cars from other common hoppers of the period,
particularly the height.

Based on the photo and the roster information provided by Gene
Green, I contend that this car is one of the ex-NYC cars in the
64501-64601 purchased in 1942. The following is my supporting
information:

BACKGROUND: In 1910, 1912, and 1917, the New York Central and
subsidiaries acquired 8,600 twin hoppers from various builders with
the same common characteristics:
- 7 panels/8 side stakes
- Triangular gussets at bottom of outermost side stakes
- 3 end verticals
- No slope sheet braces
- Heavy end sill
- 1660 cu ft
- 30 ft IL
- 10 ft height of top chord above rails

A summary of the individual lots follow pulled from Terry Link's
outstanding NYCS Freight Cars website - more details and equipment
diagram links can be found there:
http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/NYC-MODELS-FREIGHT.htm

Lot / Built / Series / Number of Cars / Off NYC Roster
250-H / 1910 / NYC 408000-408999 (ex-NYC&HR 39000-39999) / 1000 /
1943
251-H / 1910 / NYC 409000-409999 (ex-LS&MS 71000-71999) / 1000 / 1948
251-H / 1910 / MCRR 8400-8999 / 600 / 1933
252-H / 1910 / NYC 410000-414999 (ex-LS&MS 72000-73499) / 1500 / 1944
265-H / 1910 / NYC 411500-411999 (ex-LS&MS 73500-74499) / 1000 / 1943
281-H / 1912 / NYC 412500-413999 (ex-NYC&HR 77500-78999) / 1500 /
1944
291-H / 1912 / NYC 414000-414999 (ex-NYC&HR 79000-79999) / 1000 /
1944
356-H / 1917 / NYC 822000-822999 (ex-NYC 417000-417999) / 1000 / 1951
http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/images/nyc-417000.jpg
(This builders photo does not show the triangular gusset, but it is
clearly shown on the equipment diagram.)

An additional 4000 cars were built in 1917 sharing these same
details; however, these had slope sheet braces and can be eliminated
from this discussion. They are included to show the entire picture
of these important NYC hoppers:
359-H / 1917 / NYC 823700-824699 (ex-CCC&StL 72700-73699) / 1000 /
1960
360-H / 1917 / NYC 825500-826499 (ex-NYC 400500-401499, ex-T&OC
25500-26499 / 1000 / 1955
362-H / 1917 / NYC 827000-828999 (ex-NYC 418000-419999) / 2000 / 1955

As you can see above, the New York Central was retiring the first
six lots of these cars by 1943-1944; the most likely source of the
M&StL cars are probably lots 250-H, 251-H, or 265-H, but depending
on the pace NYC retired these cars, it's conceivable that cars from
all of the 1910 and 1912 built lots made their way to the equipment
broker providing these cars to the M&StL.

The ex-Westmoreland Coal Co. cars in the 65000 series purchased in
1943 are another possibility, but these were most likely PRR Class
GLA cars. These can be esily distinguished from the NYC cars by
their ends. Class GLA had "built up" end vericals with trapezoidal
gussets at the top.

As with many other common New York Central freight cars, there is no
model in HO scale for these cars (or for that matter, other common 7
panel/8 side stake, 30 ft IL, 10 ft height of top chord above rail
hoppers such as the B&O N-12 subclasses). Two possible approaches:

- Modify the Bowser or Westerfield PRR Class GLA models with new
side stakes and end verticals. This kitbash results in a car that
is 5" too long (IL 30 ft 5 in)

- Cut down the Varney/Life-Like twin to 10 ft height of top chord
above rails, rework the ends, and upgrade the details on the car.
This is a more involved kitbash, but it'll give you a car with the
correct length.

Some other comments:
Gene Green wrote:
"I've heard that the Tichy USRA hopper is too wide and the Accurail
is too narrow. I have both and have never checked either."

This is an oversimplification of the problems with the Tichy car.
The center two panels are wider than the prototype. This increases
the wheelbase of the model to prevent the inner wheel flanges from
rubbing against the slope sheets. This is not noticeable at first,
but if you compare it side by side to a prototype photo, the
compromise jumps right out at you. (See the files section of the
STMFPH group for a side-by-side comparison.) The Accurail car is
NOT too narrow - the panel widths are correct.

Clark Propst wrote:
"Notice the car has had the top edge re-enforced with a piece of
channel iron. That's not on any of the other series cars I have
photos of."

This is a common feature on the early quads (PRR Class H21A, B&O
Class W-1/W-1A), but seemingly not as common on twin hoppers. I
have seen this feature on B&O N-10 and N-12 subclasses, so it may be
more common on early steel hoppers than we realize.


Ben Hom

On the MSTL yahoo list <http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/mstl> we have
been discussing the idenity of a coal hopper shown in a photo taken at
Oskaloosa, Iowa. We need some help. What follows is the discussion to date
(edited for content), leading to our need for help. Can anyone help clairify
the "idenity" of the car in question. Clark and I will both be at Cocoa
Beach where we can chew over this in person.

Doug Harding (MSTL list owner)
www.iowacentralrr.org
-----
Included here is the link to a photo posted on Cash Groth's site (great site
for M&StL info www.cashgroth.com); I think it is a Bob McCall photo
originally, posted by Sam Cook. There is a string of M&StL hoppers servicing
the Oskaloosa coal chute. I can't make out the numbers on the nearest car
when I enlarge the photo, but was wondering if anyone (Gene, Clark, anyone?)
can identify for me
the series of these hoppers and if there is a model available that matches
or approximates it.

Here is the photo in question:
<http://www.sjcook.com/trains/mccall/misc/msl0105.jpg>
Chuck Schwartz
-----
Looks to me like the hopper nearest the camera is from either the 63001 or
65001 series. Those were similar to or the same as USRA hoppers. Use either
the Tichy or Accurail USRA hopper.

Clark, jump in here and correct me if I am wrong.

Accurail painted their M&StL hoppers box car red which is WRONG. Jim Singer,
5th Ave Car shops, did the Accurail USRA hopper in the correct black.
Lettering was really accurate, too. Right off the top of my head I don't
recall how to contact Jim Singer. If he has email or a web site, that would
be very recent. We always corresponded via the US Mail.

I've heard that the Tichy USRA hopper is too wide and the Accurail is too
narrow. I have both and have never checked either.

Gene Green
-----
Gene is correct of course, the cars appear to be USRA. The Tichy model has a
couple of too wide of side panels to help with truck swing I believe. The
Accurail car has a lever type hand brake that would need to be changed. I
would argue the color of the 65001 series just because there's no color
photos. Richard Hendrickson stated in a review of the Accurail car in RMJ
some years back that the M&StL cars were among the few painted bcr. My
collection contains the Accurail 65001 series car and an undec I painted
black and decaled with Mark Vaughan's covered hopper set as a 63001. Jim
Singer is computer illiterate, he also drinks Leinie's Red, no telling about
people's taste. His snail mail address is:
5th Ave Car Shops
PO Box 423
LaGrange IL 60525

There now you have something to chew on.
Clark Propst
------
Clark and Gene - Thanks for the reply and info. At first glance, there
appeared to be something different about the discharge hatches on the cars
in the photo.....but upon further review it is probably just a
lighting/shadow effect. Don't recall seeing any good, definitive shots of
these M&StL cars. Looks like the Tichy car has a vertical shaft hand
brake......that's not correct, is it?

Regards, Chuck Schwartz
------
Chuck, I want to shake this up a little. While I normally would agree with
Gene and Clark, this time I am not sure. I question if the car in the photo
you cited is one of the USRA hoppers.

According to Gene's freight car timeline list the 60000 cars are AAR '34 50
ton hoppers purchased new in 1936 (2 bay cars); the 61000 cars are
ex-Clinchfield hoppers bought used in 1937 & 38; the 62000 cars are also
ex-Clinchfield hoppers purchased in 1940; the 63000 cars are ex-CBPX cars
blt in 1920 and purchased by the M&StL in 1941; 64001-64097 are
ex-Clinchfield purchased in 1942; 64501-64601 are ex-NYC cars purchased in
1942; 65000 are ex Westmoreland Coal Co. cars purchased in 1943; 66000 cars
are AAR '34 70 ton cars purchased new in 1947 (these are 3 bay cars). From
Gene's model list the 63000 & 65000 cars are USRA cars and can be modeled in
HO using either the Tichy or Accurail models. 60000 cars are 1934 AAR design
and Athearn or Atlas are close. 61000 & 62000 cars are a "GLa" design, and
Bowser or Westerfield models are very close.

I have added a photo of #63537, a USRA hopper, to my MStL photo album in the
group photos. It is a sharp photo clearly showing the outline of the
previous owner's name. The photo is from Vern Wigfield, I suspect taken soon
after the time 63000 series cars were acquired and repainted. There are also
photos of #61067 and #62017 from Gene Green in the Miscellaneous photo album
in the group photos.

Now for my contention. The photo you cited shows the end of the car, while
the end lettering is fuzzy it looks to be M&StL over a 5 digit number. What
causes me to question is the car appears to have five verticle supports on
the end of the car, including one centered over the coupler. USRA hoppers, I
believe, have four verticle supports, not five. Nor can I see a verticle
brake wheel, which may just be the photo or the car may be equiped with a
ratchet style hand brake. So I throw this back to Gene and Clark for their
opinions.

Doug Harding
------
Thanks for giving the photo a real 'eye'.

I based my first 'guess' on a USRA spotting feature...The side end panel has
a triangular shaped piece of steel in the top corner that follows the slope
sheet (common on most hoppers) The USRA cars have another triangular shaped
piece of steel at the bottom of the side pointing towards the end still.

I can't read the number on the car, but I think it may be a 64xxx series
car. I have no photos of these cars. Does anyone? Notice the car has had the
top edge re-enforced with a piece of channel iron. That's not on any of the
other series cars I have photos of.

I will check out the Clinchfield and NYC hoppers at Bob's photos while in
CCB.
Clark Propst
-------
Even though you didn't ask for MY opinion, here it is :-) The end beam had
me thinking GLa as soon as I saw the picture.

Ken Olson
----
Opps, forgot the 67000 cars, which came from the C&O in 1958 in trade for
RDC's. I have not seen a photo of said cars. We need some photos of M&StL
coal trains, ie South Illnois shots. Anyone got some?

I know Gene's color book has photos of a 66000 series car involved in a
wreck in Grinnell, p 57, which shows those cars as a faded/light BCR. These
cars were purchased new in 1947. If all other cars were black, some acquired
as late as 1943, when did the M&StL switch from black hoppers to red
hoppers? Or could you see both red and black cars at the same time?

Well to answer my own question, p. 86 of Gene's book shows black M&StL
hoppers, with red hoppers. The caption leads me to believe they are M&StL
cars.

Doug Harding
-----
The only "red" hoppers the M&StL had were the three-bay outside-ribbed cars
in "Shroeder circus red". Previous to the Shroeder administration I believe
that coal hoppers were black.

Tom
-----
From all the evidence I have, the M&StL painted, or had painted, all their
hopper cars black with white stencilling until the purchase of the
66501-66999 series of hopper cars from ACF. We all know these were either
bright red (125 cars) or black (125 cars).

Honesty compels me to admit that some of the "evidence" wasn't so solid. I
did interpret some.

The 66501 series came in 1957, a year after Schroder took over. Schroder
changed the M&StL colors from anything to red and white, his alma mater's
colors. That is when the billboard "Mikan" lettering started, too. I have
never seen Mikan lettering on open hoppers acquired before 1956. Apparently
none were repainted but who really knows?

The 32 hopper cars from the C&O were certainly NOT black. Red paint doesn't
hold up well to sunlight so maybe they were bright red and faded or maybe
they were box car red or something similar right from the start. Again, who
knows?

Now, as to whether or not the hopper car in the picture is USRA, GLA or
somethng else, I keyed on the small triangle just like Clark. Great minds
think alike, you know. Taking a second look I see the middle vertical
support on the car's end that Doug noticed. That feature is not found on the
USRA design nor on any other hopper in the 1928 Car Builders' Cyclopedia.
The spacing of the verticals is unusual as well.

Ken Olson says "GLA" based on the end beam. That was my first thought, too.
I would like to revise the answer I gave in Message #10876. My new response
is, "I don't know."

Gene Green
-----
I mentioned Richard Hendrickson's comment on the color of the 65001 hoppers
after Gene said they were black in an effort to spark some conversation on
the subject...oh well...Here's another one I'd like to have a definite
answer to.
I didn't see any of the 67001 hoppers till near the end of their lives. They
appeared to be box car red. A friend whose been kitbashing freight cars
since the last 60s has a model one of those cars he's painted bright red. If
we are to assume the C&O painted these cars before delivery would the M&StL
requested bright red paint? Or, would the C&O just painted them with want
they had on hand? Did the M&StL paint them? If so which color?
Clark Propst
-----
Doug, By the late 50s it would appear that only the larger 66xxx 3 bay cars
were in coal service. Check the Landmesser lists for loads in the other
number series.

I will stick with 64xxx series in Chuck's photo. The Pennsy style cars do
have the box end still, but don't have that bottom side triangle. The USRA
cars have the triangle, but not the box still and none have that style of
end supports. Time to go to the freight car list with this one!

Sunshine makes/made a mini-kit for the offset side 60001 series cars. You
scrape all the detail off the side of an Atlas hopper and glue a new
laminate side over it. I believe there are some end detail pieces too, plus
decals. I've built two and have one more to do. Makes a nice model.

As for paint, it's amazing how were rationalize a color....
Clark Propst
-----
Not sure if this will help or not, but in the same folder of photos
referenced in my original inquiry is another photo, apparently taken at the
same time and location, but showing the opposite end of the string of coal
service hoppers. The link to that photo is:
<http://www.sjcook.com/trains/mccall/misc/msl0111.jpg> Interestingly (or
not) the two nearest cars on this end are of a different series than those
on the other end. They do not appear to be a USRA version....unfortunately
the numbers can't be made out on this photo either. Among other things they
lack some of the features Clark pointed out as USRA identifiers. (From
Clark's earlier post..."The USRA cars have another triangular shaped piece
of steel at the bottom of the side pointing towards the end still.") If you
enlarge this photo a bit, it appears that the end of the nearest car clearly
has a vertical brake shaft, and only 4 vertical supports on the end beam.

Maybe this will help pin down a time frame and therefor help in identifying
the two series depicted here?

Chuck Schwartz

No virus found in this outgoing message.
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Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1206 - Release Date: 1/1/2008
12:09 PM

Max Robin asked:
"Does anyone know what type of ends are on the AccuRail 4600 series
40' DS Wood Boxcar? Are they wood, 5/5/5 steel end or...?"

It's a model of the USRA DS boxcar, and it has 5/5/5 Murphy steel ends.


Ben Hom

A fella posted a photo on the M&StL list of a coaling tower with a hopper under it no one can identify.

We have photos of all their hoppers except for the 64xxx series which is made up of cars from the Clinchfield (low numbers) and NYC (higher numbers).

Does anyone have the dispositions of CRR and NYC 2 bay hoppers that may have gone to the M&StL?

Spotting features of the A end are: Triangular steel plate at lower side end like a USRA car, box end sill like a Pennsy car. three heavy end vertical support straps, one centered.

I can send the jpeg, contact me off list.

Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa

I did some more checking and found a little more on Pacific Clay
Products, as well as more in California's clay industry that may be
applicable:

Circa 1925 advertisement:
"Manufacturers of fine face brick, vitrified salt glazed sewer pipe,
fire brick, fire clay, flue lining, drain tile, electric conduit,
stoneware, etc." Also from the ad: "In Pacific Clay Brick, all tones
and shades are accomplished by scientific mixing of clays - not by
artificial coloring."

N. Clark & Sons has two ads in the same book, one for Architectural
Terra Cotta, with a picture of the Elks Club Bldg in San Francisco as
a project they supplied. The other ad is for "Ramona" Roof Tile -
(half-arch Spanish roof tile). In addition to above, the ad mentions
pressed brick, and kindred clay products.

The address for N. Clark & Sons is in San Francisco in the above ad,
and Pacific Clay is in L.A.

From my late 1940's info:
Based on the range of products listed, Pacific would have been using
different types of clays, primarily fire clay and what is described as
"miscellaneous" or common clay. Depending on the type of pottery
products, they may have used china clay as well.

Fire clays are naturally high in alumina and silica, and "generally
contain some iron oxide." Fired color can range from near-white to
red. Apparantly the bulk of the commercial deposits were located near
Corona and Lake Elsinore, in Temescal Canyon and the Santa Ana Mtns.
A "large part" of CA fire clay was used for refractory products - fire
brick, ladle brick, fire clay mortar, it was also used in drain tile,
sewer pipe, face tile, pottery, and "high-grade" tile. "Almost none
is shipped into the state in crude form...California also supplies a
large part of the refractory clay used in neighboring states."

LA County had the larges output of misc. clays in the late 40's. "Of
the misc. clay produced in CA in 1947, heavy clay products such as
common brick, face brick, paving brick, drain tile, sewer pipe, and
other similar products absorbed 73%"

Two plants in the Trabuco Canyon area of Orange Co. were producing
china clay for pottery use in the late 1940's, although "large amounts
of china clay are also shipped into CA from southeastern states and
England."

-John Hile

Does anyone know what type of ends are on the AccuRail 4600 series 40' DS
Wood Boxcar? Are they wood, 5/5/5 steel end or...?

TIA,

Max
=========================================================================
email: m_robin@...

smail: Max S. Robin, P.E.
Cheat River Engineering Inc.
P. O. Box 289
23 Richwood Place
Denville, NJ 077834-0289

voice: 973 - 945 - 5007 (7:00 AM - 11:00 PM EDT)
=========================================================================



--
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11:51 AM

Hello Group- I'm preparing to model a C&EI offset hopper, series
97500-97999, in the 1945 as-delivered scheme. Could anyone suggest a
color match for Pittsburg Carhide Grey or Glidden Grey Steel Car
Finish Coat, preferably in acrylic? Thanks and Happy New Year, Mike
Zwicke.

Bob,

I have the following on Pacific Clay Products...

Circa 1927:
Alberhill, Ca., clay mine
Los Angeles area brick manufacturer; mfrs of pressed, ornamental, and
fire brick; mfrs of sewer pipe
Los Nietos, Plant No. 6, sewer pipe conduit, drain tile, dealer

Circa 1947-1948:
products: a-clay products, b-brick and hollow building tile, c-crude clay
Alameda, (N. Clark & Sons Division) a,b
Ione, (N. Clark & Sons Division) c
Los Angeles and Los Nietos, a,b,c
Corona, c
Stockton, a,c

Hope this is helpful,

John Hile

I'm familiar with Portland Car & Foundry products and don't think they'll
meet with the expectations of most STMFC members. They were just OK when I
dealt with PC&F 10 years ago and the current products look about the same as
the old ones. Note that most passenger cars are based on Athearn kits and
few have individual grabs, etc. and the same holds true for the freight cars
based on Accurail kits. These offerings can be an OK stand in for the
originals if you are not too fussy about accuracy.



I will say that decals that were / are made by PC&F are very good.



Jim Hayes

Portland Oregon

gary laakso wrote:

Well, i am a CAL grad and 3 flat trussrod flat cars are listed by length: 36 foot with 6 trussrods; 40 flat car with 6 trussrods and a 41 foot flatcar with 8 trussrods, all listed under the header Custom Fabricated Rail Cars . . .

You are right, Gary. I was looking at the kits.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

Well, i am a CAL grad and 3 flat trussrod flat cars are listed by length: 36 foot with 6 trussrods; 40 flat car with 6 trussrods and a 41 foot flatcar with 8 trussrods, all listed under the header Custom Fabricated Rail Cars, Greath Northern--Freight and MofW Cars.
There are Pudge Sound & Pacific flat cars listed, all built by GN's St Cloud Shop for PS&P. Anyone know when its reporting marks became Milwaukee Roads?

I talked to Leslie Eaton today to clarify her methods. She is a very gifted modeler.

Her choice of cosmetic for weathering is MAC. http://www.maccosmetics.com
She reports that they are highly pigmented, have no glitter, and are extremely stable. You can put a clear seal over them without the effect changing. However, she says she has cars that have been handled in numerous train shows over the past few years that have not had smearing or the weathering wear off.

These are high quality = high cost. But a little goes a long way and lasts forever. In Houston MAC has two dedicated stores and are sold at places like Macy's, Nordstrom, and Saks Fifth Avenue.

Here are her color suggestions:

Face Powder Blush:
a.. Raizin - rust
b.. Coppertone - lighter rust, often used together with Raizin
Eye Shadow
a.. Charcoal brown - mud spatter, such as 1' on the walls around the base of a building, general weathering
b.. Omega - general brown, lighter than charcoal brown, light dirt
c.. Bisque - lighter still, ballast dust on the lower portion of railcars
d.. Brun - very dark brown/black, oily look, for oil on a concrete floor, dark oily areas on locomotives, tire skid marks
e.. Carbon - matte black
f.. Scene - gray
g.. Greystone - bluish gray, soot from steam locos.

______________
J. Stephen (Steve) Sandifer
mailto:steve.sandifer@...
Home: 12027 Mulholland Drive, Meadows Place, TX 77477, 281-568-9918
Office: Southwest Central Church of Christ, 4011 W. Bellfort, Houston, TX 77025, 713-667-9417

Actually Tony there are some flat cars at the end of the page, $60 a pop. This is one of them;
536-87-5400 Custom-built 36 ft. truss rod flat car. Six truss rods, K C brake system, arch bar trucks, wood decking. Represents style of flat car built by GN's St. Cloud Shops for PS&P by from
old box cars. Portions of proceeds go to the Portland State University Millar Library. $ 59.95

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS

gary laakso wrote:

At the Great Deals website, www.greatdecals.com , Portland Car & Foundry has announced that it is producing built models of 3 different lengths and differing numbers of truss rod flat cars . . .

As I read the site, Gary, there are flat car LOADS, not cars, for sale.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

At the Great Deals website, www.greatdecals.com , Portland Car & Foundry has announced that it is producing built models of 3 different lengths and differing numbers of truss rod flat cars (both revenue and non-revenue service; highly modified Accural reefer bodies into WFEX truss rod reefers and WFEX 54127-5499 reefers with fish belly under frames. Other cars are available too, so take a look. I am ordering some cars tonight, and will advise how they are when received.
Mike Brock did arrange for the cold front to arrive early in the week, not for the meeting. Good timing, as usual.


gary laakso
south of Mike Brock
vasa0vasa@...

Scott- the Jan 1955 ORER I have shows 879 cars in the 47000-47999 series with SS Comp body. Unlike 45400 to 46001. (But with all the notes and dittos, maybe I misread.)

Chris Sawicki

Scott Pitzer <scottp459@...> wrote:
Jan. '53 ORER shows:
40000-40999 (Kit 109.1, Murphy ends, Wood doors) 35 remaining

45400-45999 (Kit 109.2, Murphy ends, Steel doors) have become
"all steel" (rebuilds) by then

47000-47999 (Kit 109.3 Dreadnaught ends, Steel doors)
have become "all steel" also

So maybe I don't want to build one of these kits for a 1954 period...
what about 1947?

Scott Pitzer

Jan. '53 ORER shows:
40000-40999 (Kit 109.1, Murphy ends, Wood doors) 35 remaining

45400-45999 (Kit 109.2, Murphy ends, Steel doors) have become
"all steel" (rebuilds) by then

47000-47999 (Kit 109.3 Dreadnaught ends, Steel doors)
have become "all steel" also

So maybe I don't want to build one of these kits for a 1954 period...
what about 1947?

Scott Pitzer

Whatever additives went into the clay.? Typically that could include silica and alumina (often from kaolin), sand, lime, and iron ore.? Maybe others.


Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon



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